Microsoft confirms Windows 7 RC upgrade rules

As October 22nd hastily approaches, Microsoft is slowly but surely dropping all sorts of knowledge on to-be Windows 7 buyers. The latest tidbit about the forthcoming OS revolves around upgrades, with a company spokesperson reportedly confirming that users running an activated version of Windows 7 Release Candidate will not have to "reinstall an older version of Windows before using a Windows 7 upgrade disk." Unfortunately, those who choose this path will see all of their files and such ushered into a folder labeled "Windows.old" when the final version of Win7 is installed, essentially putting a damper on what would've been an otherwise awesome experience. Interestingly, the fun doesn't stop there; if you ever need to reinstall the final version of Win7 from scratch using the upgrade copy you purchased, you'll first need to install (and activate) a copy of XP or Vista, which is different that Vista's somewhat more lax upgrade policies. Check out the read link for the full spiel, and make sure you wrap your noodle around it good before you go off pre-ordering the wrong box.

[Via HotHardware]

[kjb434 @ Jul 14th 2009 11:29AM]

I'll gladly pay full price then and just install from scratch!

To much of a headache the other way.

[OneLove @ Jul 14th 2009 11:41AM]

I think I will cancel my preorder. I like my installs to be clean, not cluttered with old folder bullshit.

...and you were doing so well microsoft.

[Kamokazi @ Jul 14th 2009 11:53AM]

@ OneLove

It will probably present you an option of an Upgrade Install (Copy \Windows to Windows.old and leave all files in tact on the HDD) or a Clean Install (Wipe everything), as Vista did. My guess the part about 'from scratch' is just indicating it needs a preexisting OS, and the Win7 RC will not be valid forever, so they are stating you will need XP or Vista to do that.

Really I don't know why everyone is whining so much. It has been like this, or worse, for every other Windows upgrade ever released. For Microsoft to to an easy transition upgrade from RC to RTM/Retail, it would require a LOT of testing and QA to make sure all files with debug code were replaced, driver conflicts handled, etc. It's a massive undertaking that only serves a fraction of the user base.

[Irwin @ Jul 14th 2009 12:08PM]

@OneLove

Don't worry about the cluttered "old folder bullshit." You should be happy that it's there. The Windows.Old folder, as first used in upgrading to Windows Vista, saves all your old files just in case you forgot to back-up something. To delete it, It's easy as going into your C: drive and clicking delete on the folder.

[bjsguess @ Jul 14th 2009 12:39PM]

Seriously - what a bunch of complainers. The horror. Imagine having to open explorer and navigate to Windows.old to find your migrated files. AWFUL. Next they will tell me that I can't use mind control to put my PC into sleep mode.

This migration path seems identical to Vista. It wasn't a big deal then and it won't be a big deal with 7.

[Eh @ Jul 14th 2009 1:06PM]

We need accurate information on what the upgrade discs do.

Im going to cancel my preorder and just pirate it or get an OEM version if it doesnt let you do a 100% clean install without the bullshit. Having to install Windows first makes no damn sense, they can just as easily activate the old key without the OS needing to be physically installed.

[sk8ordie @ Jul 14th 2009 1:16PM]

Why can't it just not work?

[OneLove @ Jul 14th 2009 2:30PM]

Yes, I know how to open explorer and delete shit. However, I also don't want to have to install vista, activate it, then install windows 7. I install fresh about 20 times a year on 3 computers when i upgrade or if i get into os problems. I suppose I could install vista and ghost my drives for later installs but If/when i change hard drives/computers I would have to ghost again. (I shouldn't even have to think this hard about an OS install)

I guess I will have to wait for the oem/system builder edition to come out on newegg for $170.

[Jeff @ Jul 14th 2009 2:38PM]

I agree 100% kjb434! Why Ghetto your system out, installed windows 7 over RC1 over beta over XP over 95..

Installing a fresh clean copy is ALWAYS the best. Wipe it clean, then format.

When you get a new car, do they include parts from the one you traded in, no they don't (ok.. except rims maybe)!

[Nick @ Jul 14th 2009 5:13PM]

Ugh so much of a headache.. Sorry, I don't want to be the huge Apple fanboy here but just from reading the article and the posts, it just seems such a pain just keeping a Windows OS up and running (or actually installing it in the first place). I'm a Mac user and I must say, I really do think that Mac operating systems are much more stable. I have never had to reïnstall it since the day I bought it 4 years ago, let alone 20 times a year (as implied by OneLove). But then again, if Windows suits your needs better, you'd have no choice I guess.

[Quikboy @ Jul 14th 2009 5:26PM]

@Nick: Microsoft lets a lot of people access an early version of their upcoming OS to test out and report feedback on. Since it's an early version, and not the final version, there will obviously be problems and issues that these testers might face (though not so much in Windows 7).

Compare that to Apple that pretty much tightly does testing of their new OS within the company, and limits outside testing to a few developers.

[AuDioFreaK39 @ Jul 14th 2009 7:37PM]

I wonder if it's possible to buy an "Upgrade Edition" and install it over a previously existing Windows 7 RC rather than XP or Vista.

[jivetrky @ Jul 14th 2009 10:18PM]

@AuDioFreaK39


I'm pretty sure that is exactly what the post said you could do. You CAN install it over Win7 RC, just that if you ever have to install again, down the road, you will have to install and activate XP or Vista.


And this F-ing sucks! I have 2 copies of Vista Ultimate, so I can't get in on the upgrade deals because Microsoft has to shaft the people that want their "Ultimate" version. What a crock of schite.

[Jon Doe. @ Jul 15th 2009 12:33AM]

No one gives a shit about Win 9x users, not sure if you were serious or not. 9x stopped being relevant in '01 and realistically in 2000 with Windows 2000. That is either 8 or 9 years ago depending on the OS. IMNSHO No OS provider should be supporting an upgrade path for that old of an OS.

Anyone still on 9x most likely need a major overhaul for hardware and frankly should be looking at building or buying a new machine anyways which makes upgrades a moot point. That and obviously an upgrade path is easier from an NT install since it shares the basic core of the system then 9x which does not.

[HB @ Jul 15th 2009 3:39AM]

OSX FTW. Apps still work and docs are automatically ported over after a re-install or upgrade. Windows STILL has appauling userbility when it comes to this issue. Don't know why the don't fix it.

[Jared @ Jul 14th 2009 11:29AM]

This seems awfully confusing :(

[OneLove @ Jul 14th 2009 11:46AM]

...and how do they tell us this now after the 50% preorder period has expired?? WTF?

[neofolklore @ Jul 14th 2009 12:17PM]

its okay, the pirates will get it right.

[ash chapman @ Jul 14th 2009 12:19PM]

No shit, OneLove. I can't believe you can't just enter the key from the old one and get to it. Double installation is incredibly stupid.

[goinskiing @ Jul 14th 2009 11:30AM]

That's a tad frustrating, could be worse I guess, but could be better too.

[Kumar @ Jul 14th 2009 11:31AM]

So if you're looking to move to a new machine (or just upgrade your current setup)..sounds like you may want to clone your disk onto a bigger faster one, swap in that disk and install 7 on that, provided you're rocking Xp or Vista.

Then you'll have a cheap failsafe if you goof up....or dislike 7.

[Look_Around_You @ Jul 14th 2009 11:32AM]

Well it is an upgrade disk, and if you have the RC, you aren't really upgrading.

I would assume that most people will either:

A. Still have their XP or Vista CD.

B. Have either on a separate partition still available to upgrade from there.

People have to remember that the RC is for testing, it wasn't a freebie OS.

[DinnyHoon @ Jul 14th 2009 11:39AM]

The worst part isn't anything to do with the RC, it's that if you upgraded from XP/Vista and you have to reinstall, you're going to have to use your Windows retail/manufacturer restore disc as well as your Win7 disc, and it will take twice as long to finish.

[kjb434 @ Jul 14th 2009 11:44AM]

It's not good enough to just have the old XP or Vista disc. It has to be physically installed.

[dan2600 @ Jul 14th 2009 2:00PM]

how long does it take to install vista? 30 minutes? its not like you have to hunt for drivers or anything, install it, put your windows 7 disk in and install it...

though it kinda sucks for people upgrading from an OEM install....

crap...I'm upgrading from an OEM..

ok never mind, the OEM restore takes 4-5 hours....

now im sad :(

[Andrew Timson @ Jul 14th 2009 2:37PM]

No hunt for drivers? Only if you're hardwired to the Internet via a NIC that Windows supports. If you use wireless, or if it doesn't have drivers for your NIC out of the box, you need to find those before you can activate. And you need to activate before you can upgrade.

[DinnyHoon @ Jul 14th 2009 11:33AM]

*activates reading-between-the-lines mode*

"Buy the full retail edition, or we shall ruin your experience. Bitch."

[fanman @ Jul 14th 2009 1:06PM]

Hardly.

[George @ Jul 14th 2009 3:23PM]

Agreed, the fact that the installer doesn't have the ability to validate the CD key from your pre-existing copy of Windows seems like a completely arbitrary omission based on a desire to intentionally make the upgrade version less desirable and not on any technical limitation.

[rsm @ Jul 14th 2009 11:33AM]

I guess you win some and loose some with MS. They could do better, however, like not requiring a install of XP or Vista before upgrading to Win 7.

[brr404 @ Jul 14th 2009 11:43AM]

its only if you need like a system restore or a clean install, it will install on xp, vista,win7 rc, when you first upgrade...

[rsm @ Jul 14th 2009 11:59AM]

Yep, should have made that clear in my first post -- which, if you are doing a upgrade -- but doing a clean install -- MS should not require you first to install the older ver (XP,Vista, Win 7RC) first. I would think that they would have a better system than this to allow upgrades. There are some of us that do wipe their old installs to do a clean upgrade install of a OS -- Microsoft needs to take this fact into account.

[EGOvoruhk @ Jul 14th 2009 11:34AM]

That's absolutely ridiculous. Couldn't they just allow me to put in my XP or Vista key, and then request a 7 key?

It's stuff like this that makes me hate not being a pirate. I have 2 retail copies of Vista Ultimate with keys that have never been activated just because of how annoying it is. Now it looks like I'll have 2 unactivated copies of Windows 7 as well, because I'm certainly not going to install 2 OSes everytime I re-format/clean up my system

[Kevin @ Jul 14th 2009 11:34AM]

This is the same method for upgrading from 7 Beta to RC 1. So I guess when I install the upgrade, I'll have a Windows.old folder inside a Windows.old folder.

[ATerNoX @ Jul 14th 2009 11:51AM]

Yo dawg, we hear you like Windows.old folders, so we put a Windows.old folder into your Windows.old folder, so you can Windows.old folder while you Windows.old folder!

[ED @ Jul 14th 2009 7:29PM]

or, so you can reinstall your old programs while you reinstall your old programs.

[Kelmon @ Jul 15th 2009 3:39AM]

It also sounds quite a lot like the Mac OS installation option of "Archive & Install", which essentially gives you a "clean" install but still maintains your old system files in a location where they can't interfere but you can still get at them in case you forgot to back something up. I've never used it myself but some people swear by it and it sounds like a good idea for Windows as well.

[fincan @ Jul 14th 2009 11:34AM]

That "Fully install XP/Vista AND activate it" part sucks some salty balls. What happened to "Just have a valid/legit XP/Vista key"? Idiots.

[Ian @ Jul 14th 2009 12:25PM]

If its not activated, whats to stop everyone from just buying the upgrade and sharing the same Vista key around?

[George @ Jul 14th 2009 3:32PM]

The activation tool is a simple app the merely creates a hardware signature for your computer, then checks that against MS's activation server to make sure it matches the one they have saved for your key. So if someone activated a key, MS's servers will have a hardware signature associated with that key, then if someone else tries to activate on a different machine (which would have a different hardware signature) the activation would fail.

Installing an entire operating system to facilitate this check isn't necessary, the validation app could easily be part of the upgrade versions installer.

[you me @ Jul 14th 2009 11:54AM]

hmmm

[Asten @ Jul 14th 2009 11:40AM]

Wow, this is ridiculous. I'm considering canceling my preorder of 1 Home Premium and 1 Professional upgrade. I change hardware a lot, reinstall a lot, and I'm not going to install two OSes every time i want to install.

[Spiel @ Jul 15th 2009 8:09AM]

Here here. You know, I was this } { close to thinking MS will redeem itself with Windows 7, and they go and F---- things up...yet again.

I already pre-ordered the Home Upgrade, should have known they would make you pay in return of that discount.

[Matthew @ Jul 14th 2009 11:40AM]

I had been wondering how the "upgrade" works. If true you first have to install xp or vista first; win7 can go suck on a railroad spike.

[bandigolo @ Jul 14th 2009 11:41AM]

oh fuck me.

I guess $50 for the W7HP upgrade wasn't such a good deal after all.

Question: Can you do a clean (re)install of W7 using said upgrade disc on a system already running Windows 7 or do you need XP or Vista? If so, do you have to be able to actually boot into Windows to initiate the (re)install, or can you boot from the upgrade disc?

[windblownmonkey @ Jul 14th 2009 11:48AM]

From how it seems to me, you can format and install fresh from the windows 7 boot up, as long as windows can validate that their is currently a copy of windows on your rig at the time.

So it wouldn't be toooo bad. But it is an irritating method of avoiding piracy.

I personally wouldn't have to do this often, but it would be a pain at the time.

I bet that if you already have 7 installed(after upgrading) and want to format, it would surely see it's already installed and let you clean install from there, without the windows xp or vista disk. If not, that would be totally redundant.

It seems like this would only be for the first upgrade. Assuming you never format outside of the windows 7 boot up disk.

[bandigolo @ Jul 16th 2009 2:32PM]

Well on two instances in the last few years, hard drive failure or Windows corruption (not really sure which) has rendered my computer incapable of booting into Windows. Thus, I wasn't actually able to initiate the install from Windows itself, but rather needed to boot from CD. The question is whether the Win7 upgrade disc will be able to "verify" an existing Win7 installation if the computer is unable to launch it.

[MemphisNET @ Jul 14th 2009 11:43AM]

Now in the past, when you booted from an upgrade copy, it simply wanted you to put the 'previous version' disc in the drive for all of 5 seconds so it could verify you are in fact qualified. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but do I need to fully install a previous copy and then run the upgrade? Or will the disc check still work?

[kjb434 @ Jul 14th 2009 11:47AM]

That's what it sounds like. I hope it's not.

[mrspiteri @ Jul 14th 2009 11:50AM]

Looks to be no, considering an upgrade must be from an *activated* install...having the media doesn't mean much in their eyes anymore. Understandable, sucks though and will again give pirates an easier ride over the legit users!