Zune HD sold early, still unusable until tomorrow
By Darren Murph 
posted Sep 14th 2009 8:51AM
posted Sep 14th 2009 8:51AM
[Thanks, Everett]
posted Sep 14th 2009 8:51AM
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Look at that AMOLED goodness, me want one.
I kno right? cant wait to see some porn on that baby!! ^_^ lol
AMOLED is Samsung's
This is OLED.
But there's no different...
isn't it?
AMOLED refers to the display technology which uses a matrix of OLEDs
OLED refers the the type of backlight
sludgeball, technically it's not a backlight; it emits it's own light.
the comparative contrast ratios are pretty crazy.
AMOLED = Active matrix organic light emitting diode = OLED with no no backlight and less power consumption http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMOLED ...... It has nothing to do with the brand.
@deccangroove
Good post except for the power savings issue. It's a misconception that OLEDs use less power - in reality, they use a bit less power in some light conditions and displaying some images, but on most screen content and they use a lot more power than an equivalent LCD.
When displaying a typical web page, an OLED screen will use around three times the power of an LCD.
@deccangroove
OLED screens do not need backlights. electricity passes through the organic material and when it changes to its color(blue, red, or green), it also lights up.
"When displaying a typical web page, an OLED screen will use around three times the power of an LCD."
If the day ever comes that a "typical" web page is 100% white pixels this statement will be true.
Until then stop drinking the LCD shills Kool-aid.
With the black background, the HD's menu screens will use about 35% of the power that an LCD would use. I'm not sure a 65% reduction counts as a bit less.
You sound like this idiot on AT who spams every Zune HD thread with a list of "facts" about how terrible OLED screens are.
*.LED = *.light-emitting diode
its in the acronym!
anyways, it would use more energy as more diodes are lit. probably partially why they went with a black background on a lot of interface, because of the lower power consumption.
i think all of these capacitive screens (comprising cowon s9 , samsung p3 m zune hd ) that have same resolution are samsung made
Crushes blacks, though...
OH YES!! That OLED screen looks so freakin sharp!
It's amazing how AWESOME it looks on my LCD monitor......
Wait a minute.....
Though I do believe the Zune HD will be big, I think we can all agree it won't surpass the iPod. However, Apple has clearly proven they have run out of things to do with the iPod. People will be looking for new PMPs, and seeing how the Zune HD is already getting a lot of positive press, and is sexy sexy sexy, I feel that a lot of iPod users will jump ship when they see how the iPod hasn't changed over the years compared to the Zune HD.
If there's one thing that kills companies, it's not adapting and evolving. The iPod is doing just that, standing still, little memory capacities that not many people care for anymore (except the 64gb touch) and just plain old re-hashing. A video camera? Most people don't care. OLED screen, HD radio - these are things people get excited about.
What's a Zune ???
@jon
While you are close with your 35% power figure for the menu (around 40% is the figure I'd heard), how much of your time is spent just looking at a menu that is 95% black? What's the point of having a screen if you can't turn the pixels on?
Real world use cases all show that it's not very much and, I'm sorry to say it, but that little thing called evidence proves how much worse they are in most other use cases. I don't want to buy a product where I can only use the menu and can't look at any content or the battery will die. A 200nit OLED showing a white screen uses 330% of the power of a 200nit LCD showing a white screen.
OLEDs get worse in terms of efficiency, pretty much exponentially, the harder you drive them, so the difference gets much, much worse the brighter you get. Furthermore, you need to drive the OLED harder than an LCD to achieve the same level of brightness output because the LCDs use some of the incoming light to improve the picture quality.
In reality, most good mobile LCDs output about 5-600nits. That makes them much better in sunlight, but let's ignore that to answer your argument.
You claim that no website is 100% white and that anybody who claims differently must be an LCD shill. I am no LCD shill - I am responsible for investigating and selecting the best technologies for my company's products. If OLEDs stood up to close inspection, I would be on here saying they were better and I would be choosing them.
So let's look at your claim and generously assume that a quarter of the screen is covered in pictures (that would be one fussy website to look at). Pictures, in that 200nit output mode, take around 80% of the power of the LCD, whereas the white bit takes 330% of the LCD.
Let's do the maths: (75% of screen x 330%) + (25% x 80%) = 270% of the LCD's power consumption, and that is assuming the best case for OLEDs that the screen brightness is turned down to 200nits. Turn that brightness up and my estimation of 3x the power is very, very low.
Assuming that a TFT display takes about half the power of a phone when it's on, which is conservative, that means that, if your LCD phone lasts 5 hours of web browsing with a TFT, it would only last for 2.5 hours with an OLED. Granted, if you only stay looking at your menu, then that is reversed, but who wants to do that?
I'm sorry for you if you prefer to ignore evidence and think of anybody who disagrees with you as an idiot. You're absolutely welcome to your own opinions and to choose whichever products suit you best, but the fact of the matter is that products that use OLEDs suffer from bad battery life, poor outdoor readability, short lifetimes, poor colour reproduction, bad screen burn like a 1st gen plasma and uneven fading of the colours.
If they didn't have major flaws, why wouldn't they have caught on, having been hyped to the point of boredom for the last decade?
But, seriously, choose what you want - make your own minds up. The market will decide what is best suited to customers' wants and commercial pressures.
I'm just trying to let you know what the drawbacks are before you make that decision. Trust me, the Microsoft and OLED industry marketing machines won't be telling you about the bad bits, will they?
@Fnuky,
Sorry man, the earth isn't flat, I don't care how loud you yell.
You might not be a shill, but you are certainly fudging the numbers in favor of LCD.
Most of the sites I visit are significantly less than 75% white, and you're average picture uses closer to 60% of the power of an LCD not 80%, then we figure in all the black text on the page which uses next to nothing, unlike an LCD which needs power to backlight and then block the backlight to produce "black".
I don't mind spin, but please label it as such.
@Fnuky
8.5 hours of video. How do you explain that much time with a relative little battery?
O yea, Oled. Care to explain?
Also unusable new years day.
I'm not sure this should have been lowest ranked, it was funny at least. I had completely forgotten about that.
Are you kidding? Downrank the sucker! He who dares question the Zune HD shall be flogged with discontinued Zune models for all of eternity! Bwahaha... :B
Hahahahahahah!!!!! I had totally forgotten about that epic day of panic! Awesome.
Oh, I want one so badly. Please release these internationally Microsoft.
No kidding, finally all the desirables of the iPod touch (inc. wifi) with satisfactory sound quality (I assume based on other zunes), and it's not available here: a full 80km from the Can/US border.
Seconded
If you're 80km from the border, just drive for an hour and pick one up. It's really not that far.
This thing looks awesome. I wonder if it's going to include easy access to email, social networks, maps, etc...
It seems like it'd have to at this point, right?
@ Richard,
I'm mildly tempted to head over the border to pick one up, but I'm also not quite wealthy enough to comfortably drop that much cash on a new, untested product if I'm not going to have manufacturer support/warranty to fall back on.
ALL HAIL!
The greatest PMP of the year.
Agree.
No competition at all.
The third gen Touch lacks too much..
I have a Zune 120 and will probably still buy and HD 32. im just too big a sucker for awesome.
Maybe Engadget should put Zune HD in the Recession Antidote.... i will pick one
DON'T BLAME ME FOR HAVING THE SAME NATIONALITY AS NEELIE KROES! PLEASE MICROSOFT SHIP THEM TO EUROPE! I BEG YOU SHIP YOUR PLAYERS TO EUROPE, WE'LL DO ANYTHING! YOU WANT US TO FINE APPLE A BILLION? BAN IPHONES? MAKE WINDOWS THE ONLY OS ALLOWED IN EUROPE? WE'LL DO IT IF YOU JUST SHIP THE ZUNE HD!
Dude, just import one.
I feel your pain. :)
I have't heard any word on us Canadians getting the precious, Although I plan on getting someone in the zune community to order me a red originals as soon as they drop.
COME ON MS GIVE US THE GOODS AND GO INTERNATIANAL.
Hey Wetworker, isn't it worth the drive stateside to pick one up?
I think so.
Just import one if you cant wait, problem solved. Here in the states we have to do the same when we want stuff from elsewhere, namely Sony or Nintendo. Microsoft is probably just waiting to see how well this sells and takes off here before it burns cash advertising in other countries. Also keep in mind that by the time it makes it to you guys all of the bugs will be worked out and you will get a pristine near perfect product void of most launch day glitches.
The downvoted comment on Neelie Kroes is a good one. Seriously, if Europe keeps filing antitrust cases against American software and hardware companies - for no apparent reason - there will be a time when those companies say "go f--- yourself" and won't sell products to Europe. It's the European consumer's loss.
@Tom
He was downvoted (by me at least) due to using all caps, not because of his argument.
Importing is not a viable option for those outside the US. Microsoft hasn't brought the Zune Pass to many countries including the entirety of Europe. Besides that fact, any countries, like the UK, which don't use HD Radio is completely incompatible with their region's digital radio. (the UK uses DAB, for instance) It means that most the features that would make the Zune HD competitive against the iPod Touch wouldn't function. Meaning; no apps, no wifi music store, no HD radio.
So we still need Microsoft to start thinking internationally even if the hardware can be shipped internationally.
bestbuy.com shows the 16gb model instock at all the local stores in my area. Whether or not they will sell them is another question.
Thats an automated system; it just means the store got the shipment and put it into their inventory.
Look at that screen :3
The other screens even in that camera have a faded white while the OLED looks perfectly white. :)
And the black is just black not a coal colour.
Looks exactly like my Omnia HD when it boots up, just smaller. That's why I'll definately import one. :D
Or, alternatively, the text is 100% white on the ZHD but grey for the classic Zunes, plus they are old, plus the brightness looks like it's turned down.
":3"
Your balls drooped??
I can't wait to replace my 8GB flash Zune tomorrow!
Can I have your old Zune?