GPS, Government killing off LORAN-C navigation system, deems GPS good enough
By Tim Stevens 
posted January 20th 2010 10:33AM
posted January 20th 2010 10:33AM
GPS, posted January 20th 2010 10:33AM
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"- and don't try to act like they're not comin', man."
get a grip dude
Next up to the chopping block... fax machines.
Nah, next up are VORs.
@Elaith Please yes! Why on earth we are still using fax machines in the 21st century is beyond me...
@Freakin Ijit Whats wrong with VORs? They look like UFOs and thus are pretty cool
@Brokinarrow
Because it doesn't send viruses along with the documents.
@Elaith I agree.....I don't understand why I have to fax stuff to some companies. I ask; "Can I just scan it and email it to you?" Their answer; "No Sir, either fax or postal mail".
Thats pathetic in this day and age that I can simply email them the same paperwork that they would get via the fax machine.
@Brokinarrow I started a job in a county level government office last spring. Much to my dismay quite a bit of the day to day business is still done using the fax machine. Also: I got looked at funny when I asked where the white paper recycling bin was. somebody help!
@abelock
Sadly fax machines are more secure than unencrypted email. And most people don't know how to encrypt email, therefore fax lives on.
@EricEricEricEric
I meant to reply to @Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi
silly engadget.
@Brokinarrow
Because not every country in the world lives in the 21st century. There are still many nations without reliable internet or even any internet at all. To do business there, fax machines are a must.
Just recently, my 17 year old VCR died. Now I have no way of watching my tapes...
@Crazy J
Yes you do. Buy another one. And make sure it has VHS-DVD conversion so you can dump those tapes already.
@Elaith GLONASS FTW!
@Brokinarrow Probably cause they serve as a legal document because you can put your hand written signature on them :P
@Freakin Ijit Please not until aviation GPS units drop in price significantly.
@onlymyrailgun No, but you can't read them and people steal them, take them, destroy them, and that's if they ever go through.
@Elaith The only reason I came into work today was because my boss needed me to be here in case we got a fax. We most likely won't, but I still had to come in. So yeah, they need to go.
@bullshitexpresscom
The fact that email can pass through questionable servers is fine though?
@EricEricEricEric
The absence of easy encryption in email is so annoying, especially since 90% of the companies seem to think it s supersecure, they encrypt a site with 256bit encryption then send an email with everything you entered there to confirm it.., it's like putting it on the back of a postcard, only less secure, it's so stupid.
Skynet is pleased.
@Unverified User
^^This
So, the EMP will take out the GPS satellites in the sky. 60 Miles up. However, they will not take out the power supplies or the transmitters based in land?
Methinks your logic is flawed. Unless you are trying to make a joke.
Oh literal Jim.
/lib lib
@Mightydh
+1
@Mightydh
+2.
An EMP would take out this system, too.
@Mightydh aside from that flaw in the argument...
for EMP's to be effective in wiping out land based communications and such, the generally accepted technology is Nuclear EMPs... essentially the detonation of nuclear weapons above the atmosphere. Chances are, the shockwave from a blast in space would be what messes up the satellites... rather than the EMP itself
anyway.. with radio based geolocation, im sure the equipment doing the calculations would be fried... unless shielded.. but what do i know
@Vylen Shockwave in space?
@Freakin Ijit sorry, i wasnt sure what part of the actual atmosphere they would detonate them in.... so i just generalised it to "atmosphere".. which sounds silly :P
either way..
@Mightydh actually satellites have hardened/shielded electronics cause they have to withstand the cosmic radiation. in my opinion gps would be more likely to survive the emp. maybe some satellites would be taken out by it or the nuclear explosion that generated the emp but you could at least realign the remaining satellites to archive coverage in the most needed locations. the bigger problem here might be that the gps equipment on the ground might be fried by the emp as well as the loran navigation system.
@Mightydh
Loran transmitters probably would survive EMP, and they surely have backup generators for the loss of electricity. It's the receivers that will be toast.
A transmitter is much easier to protect against EMP as it is inherently made to tolerate much stronger currents. And with the age of Loran it is quite possible that a lot of technique is tube based which aren't as easy to blow with EMP as semiconductors.
The receivers on the other hand need to work with much weaker currents and are touchy of over currents.So after a EMP system might work but nobody would have a receiver working.
@Xstream
Make sure your sarcasm detector is on next time you read a comment.
@newone
You know, If an EMP were to hit, I think we would have far greater problems than navigating ships and military equipment! Chances are that most of the reception equipment would be fried... I know everything at sea would! I don't know if military equipment is stronger, but I'm pretty sure that would get fried too! Just saying...
The Loran C equipment, on the vessels I've sailed on (yes, ships use LORAN as well - mostly as position reference for DGPS) couldn't even stand up to the vibrations on a ship - So I wonder how well it would do against a huge electro-magnetic surge!
@Mightydh
Loran is ground based and easily defended, with towers spanning great distances. You guys keep talking out your ass about EMPs, I'm gonna go cook a house full of popcorn with your laser beams while I defend teh erf and your GPS network.
@TheSailor
We would have much, much greater problems than navigating ships if there were an EMP blast.
The internet would go down.
How would I read Engadget then?
@Mightydh The GPS satellites are in very high orbits and since they're military, I'd suspect that they're EMP hardened, too. Anyway, EMP would take out all forms of ground based comm equipment including LORAN receivers unless specific measures had been taken in those installations to protect them against it.
@TheSailor
EMP would fry stuff in use, but not the stuff in storage, assuming it's in a metal building or crate, so you should be able to recover by getting a new receiver, and generators should be relatively easy to fix, so there's hope even in an EMP scenario.
Game over, man.. game over..
Since when did EMP only turn off GPS receivers?
My dad operated LORAN systems during Vietnam, amazing they were around as long as they were.
Whatever...GPS does not sound as cool as LORAN
haters!
So if the military decides to scramble the GPS signals because someone has declared war on the Teletubbies or somesuch most of the intercontinental shipping lines will be screwed?
@MikeZ aye. this is bad news. If the US Government decided its giving the enemy an unfair advantage then bang.. no more GPS for ANYONE
Come on Europe.. get Galileo working.
@Beamo: Galileo is scheduled to become operational somewhere during 2013 but since it's coordinated by state officials I don't put much trust into that.
IIRC the civilian version will be limited to an accuracy of about 4 meters and be able to boost its abilities in a similar manner to current GPS devices using cell phone tower signals as a backup.
@MikeZ
If GPS is scrambled in an area, most ships would be "screwed" even if the LORAN equipment was operational... LORAN is not required and is only used on a few specialized ships where high precision is needed and is used for position reference for the GPS-receivers.
However, we do have other means of navigating. When getting close to land, the radar is very helpful - and we do still know how to read the stars.
Brilliant idea!
With the savings, the US government can pay off the $800 billion bank bailout/stimulus/slush in only a mere 21000 years!
Way to be penny wise and pound foolish!
@MAS Don't forget the cost of the proposed healthcare plan.
@Elaith Could of just not went to Iraq for false promises and paid for the healthcare. The healthcare bill actually is not different from what repubs tried in the 90s. Short term memories and long term stupidity.
@southern78
Healthcare ls a recurring cost, not just a one off payment without having to worry about it.
@MAS
awesome icon man!
FLCL rocks
@Wowzers so is a war
@Wowzers I don't deny that..but so is Iraq...your point is not valid in this comparison.