And the mess gets messier. A class action lawsuit filed against Google in Oregon has now been enriched with the allegation that Google
willfully collected personal data with its Street View cars, rather than doing so accidentally, as it
claims. It's a bold accusation, whose primary basis is a patent application, filed by Google in November 2008, for a "computer-implemented method of estimating the location of a wireless device." A subsidiary claim references the "obtaining [of] one or more packets of data transmitted" from one wireless device to another to help estimate accuracy of location results. That's the supposedly damning verbiage that shows Google intentionally created WiFi-snooping software, and it's also what's being relied on to show that Mountain View couldn't have been ignorant of the data collection going on. Yes, it's quite a stretch, but that's what lawyers are for: mental gymnastics.
Over in Europe, Google is doing its best to placate local regulators, some of whom are contemplating criminal charges against the multinational company, by agreeing to hand over all data that was collected by its vehicles. France, Germany and Spain will be first to peruse the info, though presumably there'll be an open door to other nosy governments as well. Doesn't that strike you as weird -- having your private data protected by letting a bunch more people look at it?
posted June 4th 2010 7:33AM
It was bad enough Google had that private data, now giving all of it to regulators is even worse!
@mnhthebest Im thinking that this was the plan all along.
@mnhthebest .. Please. The "regulators" i.e. your government already have access to your medical, financial, taxation, phone and police records.
They already know more about you than they will ever get from wifi.
Google on the other hand should NEVER have this kind of information.
@mnhthebest Exactly, if I don't want google to have it, I don't want the government to have rights to it either!
They should be applauded for going after google for this though. They have been pushing the privacy envelope too much, and are only going to get worse until they reach a treshhold where they get resistance.
Even little things are starting to get annoying like on Youtube now Google implemented a feature which totally BYPASSES the privacy and sharing options Youtube has always had.
Even if you have comment/activity sharing etc turned OFF, the new search link they have implemented allows you to search the entire comment history of any individual to track their activity, or just click their @username in any video they comment on.
@mnhthebest
I'm absolutely against governments regulating and observing my privacy. But still, it was Google who started this game. I don't see why the article ends in the conclusion that the real bad guys are the governments here. That's just wrong!
And even if the accusation turns out to be not true and the patent wasn't implemented in the Street View code it still was a violation according to many european laws. Google claims that they want to fully cooperate with the regulators to get this subject out of the way but weeks after it was made public Google still hasn't revealed what kind of data they actually collected. There's something foul about that.
@mnhthebest That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. Let's go ahead and pass everyone's data around some more. The same data they promised not to disclose. I think they should sue them again for doing just that. Ridiculous. I also find it suspect that Google "accidentally collected wifi data". Mmmhm. Sure you did.
@mnhthebest
They came out and told people about the snafu on their own. Why would they do so if it was done intentionally x.x
@Celeras
I never said it was done intentionally. I personally believe it was a personal and honest mistake but why couldnt they have removed every trace of it instead of passing it on to governments?
@mnhthebest What is the big deal here? If people don't secure their WiFi they deserve to have their data stolen regardless of who did it.
@Celeras
"They came out and told people about the snafu on their own."
No, they didn't! They admitted it after an audit requested by a german data protection agency.
@SeeKo
You have your time line backwards.
@Chroma
From Google's company blog (May 17th):
"Nine days ago the data protection authority (DPA) in Hamburg, Germany asked to audit the WiFi data that our Street View cars collect for use in location-based products like Google Maps for mobile, which enables people to find local restaurants or get directions. His request prompted us to re-examine everything we have been collecting, and during our review we discovered that a statement made in a blog post on April 27 was incorrect. "
The statement they are referring to said that they are only collecting SSID and MAC information. After the audit by the authorities they found out that they had "mistakenly" collected private data as well.
@SeeKo
So you would prefer they just hand information collected over to governments whenever demanded?
Google (or bing or whatever) "Digital Due Process"
With information stored on computers, or paper, or any other medium, the court needs to follow some laws to get the info. Why should digital content be any different?
@Menno I would prefer if Google would never done this. Google collected data from all of us and you talk crap about government? This is private company who we have no control over and who does pretty scary stuff. WAKE UP
@Menno
I don't like anything that is disturbing my privacy. But the incident shows that Google's word can not be trusted. And it would not be public if it wasn't for the data protection authority. So yes, I'm glad they dug a little deeper. If there was a violation there should be consequences. Otherwise others will just start to do the same.
@SeeKo
what year are you talking about, because their official blog doesn't even have a post on May 17th.
@SeeKo
Even several minutes worth of data house by house isn't enough data to be a viable business plan to go from house to house collecting information, they make automated profiles to advertisement targeting. Makes perfect sense.
I don't understand what "private" information you guys are really talking about that you are so scared of losing. Do you think Google cares that you cheated on your girlfriend? Or that your having diner with your mother next weekend? Most everything you throw around on the internet is useless outside of maybe a banner ad in the corner of your screen to give you advertisements at least worth looking at.
It's the internet, if you think that your data is uncollectable or that there is a way to keep it all private from everyone. You're dead wrong. But if you think that Google has all this information on you. Just think about Myspace, Facebook, Yahoo, AOL, and pretty much anything that has a database of any of your information and they know just as much about you. And if you dont think they have just as much, I think you think your much more interesting than you actually are.
@mnhthebest If this fucks with Google maps im gonna be so pissed..
@corylulu
The thing is that everybody knows that you have to give away a part of your privacy on the internet. I use Google search. I use Gmail. And to a certain point I say I don't mind about them. When everybody keeps saying they don't care if it's just here a tiny bit and just there a tiny bit internet companies will try to get more and more and we say it's just a little bit more, it's ok. We have to say 'enough' at one point.
You know this comparison with the frog in the boiling water?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaRtTY0lWZU
It's the same thing with consumers and data privacy.
@taligent
Google should never have information that you willingly put out there? I'm sorry I'm having a hard time classifying this information as "private".
@SeeKo
Sure, but why is this enough? All the information that Google has right now is nearly identical to the information that Facebook has. If anything Facebook has more "private" information. The only real thing that is to worry about is maybe in a smaller companies interest. Where maybe they have business plans that could be stolen. But what people fail to realize is that YOU CANT HAVE EVERYTHING FOR FREE WITHOUT GIVING UP SOMETHING. If you want a private internet, its gonna cost ya A LOT more. If you want to store private information that can't be reached by anyone, get your own server, make your own mail client, and get a VPN for your home connection. Yes, all of that cost money, but for some people, thats what they want.
If you want everything for free, expect that what you are using that stuff for is going to generate profit for the company giving you the free product.
So what would you rather have, free web search or completely private information. The buck has to stop somewhere.
@SeeKo
Forgive my ignorance here, but how is broadcast information private? I am a firm believer that if its in the air and unprotected, it is NOT private. That's tv, radio, photons... and wi-fi
@Jimbojones actually, its a public company which you can very much have control of if you have enough money. FTC will rain on Googles parade too. Google is NOT a private company.
@Ducman69 You think people being able to search Youtube comments you made is a privacy issue? Did you ever have any expectation of privacy when you made those comments? Unless they're comments to a *private* video and those comments get included (which I'll bet they don't).
@Shalabi Yes, that makes perfect sense. I can just imagine top Google officials in a backroom planning this out:
"Hey lets drive around sniffing public wifi access points and then give the information to the government?"
"Uhm, why would we do that? "
"I don't know, maybe the government will owe us a favor or something?"
"Sounds good! Make it happen."
@SeeKo Yes, which means they admitted it on their own. The Germans requested the data, they checked it themselves first. Realized they had more than they thought and decided to announce it and turn it over rather than try to cover it up.
@mnhthebest Because they don't want to go to jail. At this point, deleting the data is not an option available to them.
@perlobs
Why do you create a new account every couple of days? Are you trying to avoid the banhammer for incessantly advertising/promoting your website? Hiding behind a URL shortening service doesn't cover the fact that you've spammed your articles under numerous accounts:
http://www.engadget.com/profile/4137213/
http://www.engadget.com/profile/4138730/
http://www.engadget.com/profile/4144067/
Those are your user profiles just from this week alone. You've had many, many more prior. Leeching page hits off of ninja links is super lame.
@prentbosh
LMAO this is your latest user account after your "perlobs" account just got deleted! Super lame.
It's to protect the children...
"don't be evil"
That is all.
@Trick202 I still don't see what's wrong with this. If they had hacked into WEP networks then sure, but listening (very briefly) to packets on open networks? Who cares?
@Timmmmmm Come on! If it was Apple you'd be all over it like a rash.
@Timmmmmm How do you know it was "very briefly" because that's what they claimed? It's called CYA.
@derrickONLINE
You know it was "very briefly" because the street view cars have better things to do than snoop on random people's internet browsing. Seriously, Google is a huge company. WTF do they want with my information? I already use them for 90% of my searches. They have a lot of the information already.
And these were open networks. If you're doing private things on an unsecure network, you sir are an idiot.
@Timmmmmm Exactly... it is publicly broadcast information.
If you stood on the street and said your name over and over, would you get pissed off if someone wrote down your name and where you were standing?
This is ridiculous, your SSID and its location is NOT private information if it is BROADCAST via radio.
@Timmmmmm
it is forbidden in many countries to use another person;s network without their consent.
and don't blame europe for this law.
it is the same in US: even if I loose my wallet in a public place, for all to see, if are deemed a thief if you picked it up and did not return it to the lost and found.
it was there, unprotected, yet it is not yours to use.
@derrickONLINE Covering your ass does not include making a up a story that will be easily proven false in a court later. That's just making it worse for your ass.
@BigJayDogg3 You need to wake up. Just because they're GOOGLE doesn't mean bad intentions can't or will not ever exist. I love Google and my WiFi is secure thank you very much. But just because a big company tells you something and their motto is "do no evil" doesn't mean companies don't cover there ass.
BP
ENRON
Kaiser Permenante
Shall I go on? I'll bet you're one of those teabaggers and think healthcare companies aren't raping the assholes of everyday citizens too right? Because you believe everything a big company tells you.
You're a victim in the making. Your ONLY valid point was that the street cars are moving along quickly. But you really have no idea what the reasoning for this "accidental" data collection is for. You have no idea what intended to do with the data.
Hmmm, who do I trust less, foreign Governments or Google...
@Threlly The correct answer is "neither".
It wasn't OK for Batman, it aint OK for Google or the government either. ;)
I'd rather Google have my info then any government...besides they already have most of my info between android, gmail, Google searches and calendar. Google pretty much knows my whole day everyday, and I'm ok with that.
@Drizzle .. A sucker born every day.
Google is the world's largest ADVERTISING company. Remember that.
@taligent that's funny....you think you schoolin me
@taligent
Congratulations. Google sells advertisements. Not information.
Sorry, they did wha now? All I can think is what a lovely building!
Here in Ireland, our data regulators have told Google to "just delete the data"
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/16473/cio/google-told-to-destroy-intercepted-wi-fi-data-irish-authorities
@damians
That how it should be! who gives regulators permission without court approval or consent from the users to collect data?
Just because google did it doesn't mean the regulators should have access to the info... it should be deleted.
@damians Bravo Ireland
@damians THAT is the way to handle it. And a bitch slap to whoever came up with the idea at Google so that they and others like them know not to try it again.