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Meet Jumpgate Evolution's new(ish) community manager
This one managed to pass under our radar last month, but Katie "Khatie" Postma -- previously the community manager for Stargate Worlds -- is the newest community manager for NetDevil's upcoming Jumpgate Evolution. If the name seems familiar to any Massively readers, that's probably because Katie was one of the many community managers who spoke at the ION 2008 event. And for everyone else who's unfamiliar with her, we highly recommend reading through her viewpoints on taking an MMO community from pre-launch to live.We're happy for Katie and even happier for the Jumpgate Evolution community that should get her expertise as the game's launch creeps nearer and nearer.
The subscription debate continues
Ah, the ever-debated subject of MMO subscription models. We've seen a lot of discussion on the subject, some good and some bad. Gamasutra just so happens to be running a pretty good discussion featuring SOE's John Smedley, Three Rings' Daniel James and EA Mythic's Mark Jacobs all chiming in with their opinions on the matter. The selection is also a good one as Smedley represents a company hybridizing its models, while James is from a company that's more or less full-on microstransactions and Jacobs is firmly for sticking with subscriptions.Each of the three mens' reasoning for their companies' model choices all make sense when you consider their reasoning. From what we can gather, all three viewpoints have their merit and really no one subscription model is going to win out anytime soon. Subscription models were a hot topic this year at ION and of course Massively discussed it as well in one of our podcasts. So if you'd like to dig deeper on the current state of the argument we highly recommend those features to you.
Grimwell on fearing the silence of the majority
Earlier this month there was plenty of talk at the ION conference about community-related issues. Those discussions were great and if you missed out on reading them when they were first posted, then you should check them out now. One thing often touched on during those discussions was the community manager's goal of reaching out to as many people in their community as they can. Or in other words: communicating with the silent majority.Grimwell has recently posted a tightened up dialect on that very topic of reaching the silent majority for any given game. He expresses his own thoughts and methods about forging lines of communication with the people who're not being vocal through forums, blogs, podcasts or even in-game chat. And if you're worrying about a drawn-out read, don't. Grimwell keeps it short and sweet, ending the post with the affirmation that we're all still learning about the communicative process.
An ION 08 interview with Nexon America's Min Kim [Updated]
In a recent interview at Ten Ton Hammer, Nexon America's Min Kim spoke out about some of the company's plans for upcoming games, including their online FPS entitled Combat Arms which will be entering closed beta next week. He also talks a bit about another upcoming MMO title being produced by their Vancouver studio, but details are still not available.In addition, Min Kim speaks at great length about some of the existing titles they have have available in Korea, that they're hoping to port to the North American audience, including the wildly-popular Korean title KartRider. To garner interest with North American players, Min Kim realizes that the audiences are different, and social competition is where it's at. No other information was said about KartRider's introduction to North America, but he says more details will be available soon.Update: Though we initially listed both Audition and KartRider as games Nexon was looking to bring to North America, Audition has been available to North American audiences for some time now, complete with a catalog of familiar songs!
The devils of NetDevil offer insight into Jumpgate Evolution
Interviews conducted at this month's ION 2008 conference continue to emerge, painting a broader picture about the industry as a whole. Yesterday MMORPG.com posted a discussion with the minds behind NetDevil's Jumpgate Evolution. Scott Brown and Hermann Peterscheck offered a taste of the game up to the site's Carolyn Koh, who includes in her writeup that the game almost looks like 'moving concept art'. Their discussion is of a more technical nature, focusing on the game's progress so far. Brown states that the devils have been treating the title 'like a live game', with testers and developers in-world almost from the start. They've already had a very notable public exhibition of the game's new user experience, at the March Connect 08 event.Brown goes on to say that they're currently focusing on the title's infrastructure: auction houses, mining, and mail. Other topics include the role of PvP, the importance of player-created goods in the game's economy, and the many options you'll have on how to control your ship. If you're wondering about power structure, Mr. Peterscheck offers the word that the game will use a very traditional system: "Levels are a symbol of your progress ... Everything you do gives you whether it is crafting or running missions and that builds your level. It will not make you a better pilot or give you more life. You have to build your ship, get better weaponry and shields, get your licenses."
Lum the Mad weighs in on the MMO industry's future
Scott Jennings has been known as 'Lum the Mad' for years now, posting regularly to a website of the same name in the murky mists of the MMO genre's past. Though "The Rantings of Lum the Mad" was a collaborative effort, Mr. Jennings well-known efforts on the site led to a lengthy stint with Mythic Entertainment. Since 2006 he's been working with NCsoft in Austin on an as-yet-unannounced massively multiplayer game. The folks at Ten Ton Hammer caught up with Lum at this month's ION conference. There, they asked a few questions about what he's working on, as well as some broader queries about the industry as a whole. If you've ever followed Mr. Jenning's writing on his current Broken Toys site, you're probably already aware he's got some great ideas about where the genre should be going.Scott confirmed that the title he's working on is a typical fantasy MMO. But, he notes, it's a collaborative effort between a number of veterans of the genre. On the industry as a whole, the MMO commentator is fairly firm: World of Warcraft has set a standard that must be met. Anything that doesn't "will fail and deserve[s] to fail." Beyond that, Lum and the site discuss open world PvP, the sticky wicket of investment money, and the daunting challenge of MUDflation. Says Jennings, "There are ways to give players more tools in their toolbox that don't completely blow the ability spectrum out of wack. It's one of those things that's very upward focused, and that's why you need tons and tons of testing cause it's the quickest way to kill your game."
A chat with Stargate Worlds' Joe Ybarra
The guys over at MMORPG.com caught up with Joe Ybarra from Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment's (or CME for short) Stargate Worlds last week at ION to talk about their upcoming MMO. If you didn't catch it when it originally went up, we sat in on his "MMOs and Hollywood" panel during the conference. Joe has a lot of interesting things to say about not only the industry at large, but his companies' game.Being that Stargate Worlds is expected to pull in both the TV series audience as well as MMO players, the team at CME is designing their title with a high level of accessibility. The title's story takes place in a modern -- or even futuristic -- setting, which means combat is similarly modern. We really love the idea that combat is being designed as a one-against-many affair in Stargate Worlds. Joe mentions that the minimum is one player-on-three NPCs and their median is about five or seven against one. That means you can expect battles to feel very action-packed, especially when you're in a group with four of five other players!
Smed speaks about RMT, Free Realms and The Agency
Who'd win in a cage match between SOE's upcoming MMOs, spy-themed The Agency and family-friendly Free Realms? On one side, you have all the guns, explosives, and "M"-ratings. On the other side, you have cartoon-inspired graphics, Real Money Trading, and loads of fun from-7-to-70 minigames. And right in the middle of them both, there'd be John "Smed" Smedley keeping score. These are the kinds of things that come to mind while reading the latest interview with Smed. He talks, again, about the new MMOs and the innovations they bring to the genre, in a pleasantly relaxed tone. Absent are mad, loud proclamations to Funcom, EA Mythic and Blizzard describing how, in great detail SOE MMOs will KICK THEIR MMO'S BUTT.He may not see his games in direct competition with the others, but players do. They want to know HOW the games will kick butt, WHERE they will do it, how PAINFUL it will be, and where they can get a front row seat. In this ION interview, Smed talks about how children who play Free Realms can be given an allowance in the game to limit the amount they spend on in-game goods. If you get your friends to try Free Realms, hey, you can find some shiny nickels in your account to perhaps buy that lovely outfit you've been eying. With The Agency, on the other hand, you want boom? They will have boom. You want bleed? Bleed will happen. SOE is committed to getting an "M" rating for the game, even if they need to have an NPC cuss to do it. We want passion and we get bullet points. We want butt-kicking and get fireside chats. Smed, please tell us how The Agency is going to slam Age of Conan to the ground. Tell us how Free Realms will make players around the world go "Maple What?". We want to believe!
The week in Massively features
Player vs. Everything: Putting raiding on your resumeTen years ago, the idea of putting something like being an officer in a hardcore raiding guild on your resume would have been laughable. Anti-Aliased: How to pick the MMO for youLet's be honest for a moment - there are a ton of MMOs out there. ION 08: State of online games keynoteGlobalization is one of the session tracks here at ION 08, as befitting an industry seeking the holy grail of a truly global marketplace for online games. TurpsterVision: Did I mention there is a war going on?Another average week, another fantastic TV Episode. This time around I've decided to have a look at Richard Garriott's Tabula Rasa. Making/Money: Flawed by DesignToday we are looking at another game and how it deals with value chains to ensure that they do not work when crafting by NPC purchases/sales alone. If you like these, make sure to check out our full coverage of ION 2008 from earlier this week. You can also read on to see the rest of Massively's features from the past week.
Cryptic's community manager on the CoH sale and Champions customization
Victor Wachter participated in a number of events at ION 2008 earlier this week. MMORPG.com had the chance to catch up with the Cryptic Studios community manager, and walked through a number of topics pertaining to the creators of City of Heroes. The sale of CoH to NCsoft was the first subject of discussion, an act that Victor describes as part of Cryptic's desire to 'grow up'. From the tone of the article, Wachter describes the studios' departure from the CoX franchise as a decision to just 'walk away.'Their new title, Champions, is apparently a 'perfect fit'. The pen and paper background to the game, the action-oriented realtime elements, all blend together to make the game Cryptic wanted to make with CoH. Collision detection and some twitch elements will enhance the game's combat, and the storytelling nature of tabletop gaming will show through in a unique sort of way. Players will create their own arch-nemesis, who will show up throughout their character's adventuring career. Says Wachter, "If you create Superman, you will create Lex Luther and they show up at different times of your gameplay. For example in quests that you may initiate."The piece carries several other topics of discussion; for even more from Wachter, be sure to check out our extensive coverage of ION 2008.
The Digital Continuum: Daringly duo
There were a great many things I took away from my experience at ION 08 this year. I learned how amazing community managers can be. I also learned how much they put into their communities -- if you're wondering, it's quite a lot. Among all the waves of information I soaked up there were little leaks of ideas to take away as well.During the "Online Games in 2013" panel there was a point of Damion Schubert's presentation that piqued my curiosity. It was his prediction that MMOs will see far more "Duoing" content. The fact that playing with a friend or two -- along with playing solo -- could become much more ubiquitous fills my heart with hope. If you're wondering why, I'll be more than happy to explain.
Massively goes to Seattle: A wrap-up of ION 2008
It's been a great week on the west coast, for the second annual MMO-centric Seattle conference. Now called ION, everything we've heard has indicated that this week's event was a tremendous success. Massively was there in force, and below you'll find the ins and outs of the sessions and meetups we attended. Focusing on the community managerOne of the strengths of MMOs are their communities. The stronger a community around an MMO is the more likely that game is to last into the foreseeable future. State of online games keynoteGlobalization is one of the session tracks here at ION 08, as befitting an industry seeking the holy grail of a truly global marketplace for online games. Tuesday's keynote was delivered by Won II Suh of Neowiz, a Korean online games company with 20 titles currently supported or in development by 1000 employees across 8 regions around the world. John Smedley keynote shows off Free Realms and The AgencyWhen you think of Sony Online Entertainment, what comes to mind? I'm sure that Everquest, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies and Planetside are some of the titles which most people think about. From what I've recently seen in John Smedley's keynote at ION 08 that's all going to be changing in the near future. SOE Seattle studio tourOur mission: infiltrate SOE's Seattle studio, obtain intel on The Agency, regale the awesomely hyperactive lead designer Hal Milton with questions from left field. MMOs and the television content model (SGW)Joseph Ybarra, SVP of strategic operations at Firesky, the publishing subsidiary of Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, presented a session today at ION 08 about the Stargate Worlds production model that borrows heavily from Hollywood and TV models.
ION 08: Taking an MMO community from pre-launch to live, page 2
Onto everyones favorite topic: "Fuckwads!" They're usually absolutely negative, but can they be converted?Katie says, "You can convert them!" She's rather optimistic as her URU Live experiences have taught her that anyone genuinely interested in a game can be turned to the light side. Apparently back in Katie's URU Live days there were three guys who "vehemently" disagreed with each other, but did agree that the game was broken. These three guys had an incredibly impressive discussion in a thread, so Katie invited them all into a chat room one day. She told them how impressed she was with their ability to articulate their complaints and issues. So she asked, "Do you want to be moderators?" and they agreed! In the end these three players ended up being huge advocates of URU Live. Two of them even did some tech support for the game.Identifying what a person is trying to accomplish through their behavior is also key, says Victor. Some of these people are just trying to get some attention unfortunately. Time can be wasted on the wrong people, so being able to locate and invest in people who can be brought over from the completely negative is an important skill.Meghan brings up the ones who are hopeless. There was a poster in the Lord of the Rings Online forums (a LotRO Scholar) who took great pleasure in beating people with his intellectual epee. This person eventually had to be banned, but since he'd developed a niche group around him he did take some people with him. However, it truly was the best choice for the community.If they're not a true "fuckwad" who's just trying to beat people with their intellectual epee then give them an NDA and beta access, says Craig. Letting them see the game -- and try the game -- for itself can alleviate many fears.How do you balance the smaller fansites with the big PR-fueled media outlets?"It's hard." laments Katie. Meghan chimes in with agreement, "I love the grass roots." she continues, "they're the people supporting you for basically nothing." They do it purely out of love and passion. "You can't not appreciate that." admits a solemn Meghan. Still, the truth is that developers need marketing and PR. "Sometimes you want to give the smaller sites screenshots, but you just don't have them." It's a tough place to be.Something that Craig points out is that simply showing up letting small sites know that, "Hey, you guys rock!" is all the validation most of them need. It's easy and very important.Katie mentions that she filters the smaller sites through her by taking their questions and answering some of them to the best of her ability. Then, she takes these answers to the PR folks, who of course just have to improve them (can you see the high-level trickery here?) before giving them back to her. This is a great way to reward the smaller sites.Someone in the audience suggests that big sites have passionate writers who are hired for that very fact. "Big sites aren't all completely soulless." remarks Steve.A trick that Craig makes use of is quietly suggesting to smaller websites to pay attention to news feeds over the next hour or so. This way the big sites still get that sexy press release while the small sites are able to talk in-depth about it right away. Katie brings up the problem of there being so many smaller fansites that tipping even several can make others feel like there is preferential treatment going on. She did however invite a local fansite to attend office events, purely because said fansite was nearby.Steve asks about hanging the big carrot stick in front of players so they'll be good in order to earn a early beta slot. He asks if the panelists have been any good or bad uses.Immediately Craig chimes in with, "Such as using a website where you have to play for membership to download the beta?" A square upper-cut to the jaw if I've ever seen one. Another thing to keep in mind is that giving beta keys to smaller sites so they can give them away in contests is tricky. The contest has to be incredibly fair and nigh un-cheatable. Also, it's important not to announce the names of the winners in beta slot contests, because while that may sound cool it's only really announcing the 999,999 other people that they lost.Of course the risk of letting influential individuals from the community into the game early on is "unexpected results". There's a lot of excitement about a game between the moment it's announced and the day it launches. Many players can't touch or feel the game out for themselves, so there's a risk of players building up a game in the mind that's completely different from the actual title. Craig says that it's also important to clarify what's really going into a game with the game's lead. Otherwise you'll end up over-promising, which is of course very bad. "Yes you're going to have unicorns that poop Pegasuses!" exclaims Craig. He something else well-worth remembering, saying "Once you say it, that's it. It's for real now. Somebody from the company said it and that's it."Next is the topic of dropped features which have been previously promised.We don't talk about something publicly until we see it, says Meghan. Most of the panelists have learned this lesson in the most bitter of ways as all heads are nodding in agreement. "Don't talk about it until you see it." goes the mantra.Katie says to be honest and genuine, admit that you were told to say it and so you said it, then apologize. Craig chimes in to say clear communication is incredibly important in all things. "It almost never happens, but there are times when you are told to go and say something by someone in the company." Craig reveals a bit surprisingly, to me at least. "I don't say this very often," begins Victor, "Part of our job is to advocate for the customer." A community manager sometimes needs to remind upper management that their reputation with the community literally relies on what they say. Craig also recommends trying not to say something that was dropped will be in a patch or expansion unless a lead developer commits to it."I like getting paid, so at the end of the day I'm going to do my job." notes Craig. It's best not to lose your job over it. Hopefully -- if you're lucky -- the company you work for respects the role that a community manager plays in the success of the game.Meghan brings up the fact that it's a good idea to slowly break the news to the community when you do make the post. Make it an open discussion and lead up the breaking the bad news slowly."Hey, we cut that feature!" yells Craig while giving two thumbs up.In all seriousness, a community manager has to speak to the large audience first. If there happens to be small pocket of players that are complaining loudly it's ideal to attack it and find out their issues. However, the general audience does come first. Meghan adds, "Just making sure that players know you're working on it helps."Another fun story from Katie, this time about a player they recently let into the "Friends and Family Alpha" for Stargate Worlds. This player literally could not get into the game. They ended up getting in touch with a developer through an instant messenger and figured out what the issue was together. Bringing the right players intimately close with developers and making them a part of problem solving is a huge part of the overall success equation.How do you handle negative buzz coming out even with an NDA in place?Even with an NDA there will be a point when information gets leaked out. Victor suggests taking as much control of the situations as can be taken and to look for the right people to help you spread your message. Allowing people from the community to write up a personal blog post and then send it through PR to "OK" it is smart. Combat fire with fire, essentially.Katie laments that, "There is always a vocal minority.""SOE has a crack team of ninjas." Craig says in response to the NDA question."Your team is on crack?" queries Katie. "Yes." says Craig with a great deadpan voice. Or maybe he's not kidding. Who can tell with Grimwell?What we do know -- or Craig knows, at least -- is that when NDA discussions are leaking out into the Internet it's a sign that these people didn't have a provided place to vent these problems. Without any place else to go they simply post out on their own blogs or forums.How do you deal with a buildup of negative-focused communities?"Send them lots of cupcakes." Advises Craig, most wisely. (We finally know the secret to getting SOE to send us lots of cupcakes!) The truth is that these players -- or groups of players -- aren't really interested in your game, they're just interested in being a part of the hate club. It's fun for them to be hateful and spiteful. They simply don't want to do anything else but be angry.The panel finished with lots and lots of different topics being covered, all of which continued to show me why these people are so important to the successful launch of an MMORPG. Every one of these community managers seem incredibly good natured. That's saying a lot when you consider that this is a group of people who constantly sit between the ire of fans and the supposed apathy of a developer. It's a tough job, but somebody has to constantly remind us that we're all just passionate people who all love online games.%Gallery-23015%
ION 08: Taking an MMO community from pre-launch to live
Yesterday was the final day of ION 08, but that didn't mean there weren't some incredbly great panels to attend. "Taking Your Community From Pre-Launch to Live" was just one of these panels and to make things even better it included some previous speakers I quite enjoyed hearing from.This time around the moderator was Steve Danuser (38 Studios) while Craig Dalrymple (Sony Online Entertainment) took a panelist seat along with Katie Postma (Firesky), Meghan Rodberg (Turbine) and Victor Wachter (Cryptic Studios). It's important to point out that all the panelist are in fact community managers, as opposed to Steve Danuser who is the lead content designer and director of community development for his company. However, Danuser was previously a community manager for EverQuest II.%Gallery-23015%
How would you design EverQuest 3?
At the ION '08 conference keynote, John Smedley hinted at another entry in SOE's long-running EverQuest franchise. Since EverQuest's 1999 release, the venerable fantasy game has been seen in such places as game consoles (EQ Online Adventures for the PS2), PDAs (The Pocket EverQuest trilogy for the Pocket PC), Real Time Strategy (Lords of EverQuest for the PC), online collectible card games (Legends of Norrath) and even versions for cell phones (EverQuest: Hero's Call). What could possibly be next for EverQuest?EverQuest on the PC has already split itself between the original game and its sequel, EverQuest II. Releasing a sequel to a still-viable game was a gutsy move, but it fragmented the player base substantially, to the point where neither game, by itself, can challenge newer games such as Lord of the Rings Online. It's this blogger's opinion that SOE won't make that mistake again -- any EverQuest 3 would not be for the PC. It's not a huge leap of faith to assume that the next version of EQ would run on the PlayStation 3. SOE recently shifted from Sony Pictures to Sony Computer Entertainment America, makers of the PS3 and publishers of its first-party software. Beyond that, when Smedley mentioned to the Seattle Times that the PS3 would be a strong platform for MMOs, he certainly very likely had this game (and others we don't know about) in mind.SOE has made some mistakes with EverQuest through the years, but has also had some huge successes and innovations. If you were an EQ3 designer, and all you had in front of you was a PS3 and a blank whiteboard, what features would you include to knock the socks off the players? Customizable quests and raids? A Steampunk theme? Faster, twitch-based gameplay? The ability to make your own cities? How would you make EQ a worthy competitor to today's great crop of MMOs?
ION 08: Getting the most out of user generated content
One might rightfully acuse the term "user generated content" of being a rather dry way to describe what is really a fascinating trend in media: the opportunity for "users" to contribute their own creations and have them incorporated into traditionally heavily produced "content." By nature interactive, the games industry is taking notice of the power of UGC, and in a panel yesterday at ION 08 we had the chance to listen to Flying Lab's Troy Hewitt and Linden Lab's Rob Lanphier talk about how user content has been working in Pirates of the Burning Sea and Second Life. Attorney Eric Goldman of Santa Clara University School of Law was on hand to discuss some of the legal issues surrounding UGC, and the panel was moderated by Scott Warner, owner and leader of the intellectual property and technology group at firm Garvey Schubert Barer. Scott: Troy, do you want to start us off by talking about how user content has been working in Pirates? Troy: Sure. As some of you may know, we just launched PotBS earlier this year. We have a system in the game where players can create flags and sails for their ships. There's a mechanism to distribute your work and they can actually create and sell their designs as well. Players can also create and model their own ships, and other people in game will be able to use those ships. We have 30 ships now in the game made by players, and these were actually done by only 13 people; so it's a small group of dedicated people creating these ships. With the flags and sails, about 20% of our player base is creating them and a much larger percentage actually use them.
ION 08: The Agency update and RMT confusion
While attending the SOE open house event last night after all the ION 08 panels were finished, we got the chance to sit down with The Agency's lead designer Hal Milton. He talked about the game at length, which of course meant our ears and eyes were firmly directed in his direction. The first thing we feel is important to mention before getting into some new juicy details, is the recent news about downloadable content for the spy-fueled action MMO. You see there's been some confusion and in speaking to Hal he expressed his desire to clear things up. Players will in fact be able to purchase things with their hard earned money in The Agency, however, these items will not be weapons or equipment. To be clear: From what Hal told us, nothing that gives one player an instant leg-up over another will be for sale. With that out of the way, lets get on to the new information.%Gallery-22924%
ION 08: SOE Seattle studio tour
Our mission: infiltrate SOE's Seattle studio, obtain intel on The Agency, regale the awesomely hyperactive lead designer Hal Milton with questions from left field. Operatives were dispatched, urban primitive ladies were photographed, and foyer introductions were presided over by a really cool gun. Stay tuned for more news about living the life of an elite agent, and check out the gallery for tour photos featuring concept art from The Agency, giant robots, and a not-so-secret reveal.%Gallery-22924%
ION 08: A five year forecast for MMOs
There's always a lot of discussion about what's going to be the next big thing in the MMOs industry. We all love to talk about the future and that's largely because it's a very interesting topic. So we just had to attend the "Online Games in 2013" panel at ION 08. This panel was actually introduced by Peter Freese, the ION Conference Director. It was easily one of the most packed panels I've been to thus far which is saying a lot since all the panels have been pretty well populated already.The panel consisted of Erik Bethke (GoPets Ltd), Scott Jennings (NCsoft), Bridiget Agabra (Metaverse Roadmap) and Damion Schubert (BioWare). With a group of people like this I was expecting some varied and compelling conversation on the topic of MMOs in 2013. In the end we got just that and a quite a bit more.%Gallery-22888%
ION 08: Focusing on the community manager
One of the strengths of MMOs are their communities. The stronger a community around an MMO is the more likely that game is to last into the foreseeable future. "Successfully Managing a Community Emergency" was a panel at ION 08 full of the people in charge of the communities we all take part in. Fittingly enough all of these men and women have their own friendships based on their shared experiences as well, which makes for a kind of interesting mirror effect. It was like watching the same group of people who post on these forums talk about them -- except with a bit more maturity than you'd expect. Though don't get me wrong, there was a lot of goofing about as they tackled different forum emergencies.The panel consisted of Katie Postma (Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment/Stargate Worlds), Victor Wachter (Cryptic Studios/Champions Online), Alan Crosby (Sony Online Entertainment), Meghan Rodberg (Turbine/Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online) and was moderated by Craig Dalrymple (Sony Online Entertainment/EverQuest, EverQuest 2, Free Realms).%Gallery-22796%
