Norway wants to ban copying songs from a CD to an MP3 player
By Peter Rojas 
posted February 11th 2005 12:13PM
posted February 11th 2005 12:13PM
Norway, you are so letting us down. The Norwegian government has proposed a new copyright law that would make it legal to make a backup copy of CD (or DVD) for personal use, but would illegalize rippings those same songs into MP3s for transfer onto a digital audio player (the law would allow you to only make a copy to the same medium). Besides being silly, the law would be completely impossible to enforce, since it's not like people hardly ever rip CDs anywhere except the privacy of their home (or maybe their office). The Norwegian recording industry, of course, is thrilled.
UPDATE: A few Norwegian readers have written in that the law only applies to copy protected CDs (and DVDs), not regular ones. Not that that is any better…
that's just dumb.
my question though, will the law only apply to cd to mp3? What about ripping mp3's to cd? Or completely different mediums like vinyl to tape (why? i don't know but you get the point) etc? And why make a distinction between a backup copy on cd that you can listen to in a portable discman or a backup mp3 that you can listen to on an ipod?
this is just dumb.
man, i live in this contry. and as expected its doing the bow to the economic superpowers these days...
Whaling? Check.
Culling wolves? Check.
Banning ripping MP3s to your own player? Check.
I think the Norwegian government has some SERIOUS issues to address.
In essence, this is a law against consuming data stored on a medium which differs from the medium on which the data was originally required.
Vibrations travelling between your speakers and your ears are a differing medium than a compact disc; and it is clear that, in this example, the data is being consumed. Why would this be legal when it is illegal to re-direct the data producing those vibrations to another data type?
Is it illegal to record music that your stereo is playing with a portable tape player and then play it back to yourself? Is it illegal to sing along with the stereo?
I'm also a Norwegian, and there is a big but here (and it's not J-Lo's): It will ONLY forbid copying from COPY PROTECTED CDs to MP3. Copying from CDs that are not copy protected will not, AFAIK, be illegal.
It's still stooopid, stooopid, stooopid, as everyone and their grandmother has an iPod, and yet the record industry would insist on selling them CDs that can't be (legally) copied to their bright and shiny and white toy.
Norway has a recording industry?
There goes the Norwegian music scene. ABBA with have a free reign over the Scandinavian region.
Hmm that's plain dumb... if they ban ripping original, legal, bought CDs to mp3s, only thing they'll get is that people won't bother to buy the CDs in the first place, instead downloading the mp3s directly from P2P networks in a very comfortable format to store on portable mp3 players.
Does it have to be the same medium or the same format. If the former, it would then be illegal to save an mp3 from your hard drive to a memory card because they aren't the same medium, thus making flash players unusable, but hard drive ones would be fine. If the latter, you would be able to copy anything as wave files, because they are the same format as cd audio. I see there being alot of loopholes if this gets passed.
Perhaps 'Aqua' fear music piracy. Barbie ain't gonna party (if she owns an ipod anyway).
I love Norway, I really do. It's a beautiful country with exceptional standards of living. Consequently, elections seems to rest on moral issues than economic ones. The PM is a priest.
I think they are probably doing out of shame, that you'd actually want to copy some of the results of the Norwegian recording industry (well, the pop one anyway).
If it's anything like their drinking laws, you'll probably have to go to an official 'mp3' shop (mp standing for Monopoly!) that looks vaguely like a chemist. Look at a catalogue 'phone book' and go on a waiting list. An hour and many kroner later - eh voila - you have your official music 'download' - sung in new Norwegian (which is actually old Norwegian) by some old bint and a moose.
Let the party begin!
As a Norwegian I thought I should comment on this. Lame!
Their excuse is that they are adapting to EU-regulations. I suspect TONO (Norwegian equivalent to RIAA) is behind this. Why they´re still around I don´t know. Even artist hate them. Their chairman recently said that when you buy a CD, you really just rent it.
The dance of the giants continues. What disturbs me is the default assumption that everyone is guilty of copyright violation. As a result, we have to be stopped from doing anything potentially nefarious with the content we paid for.
At some point, companies that drive this agenda will succeed only in alienating the consumers who have made them what they are. As the recording industry in the U.S. has learned, you don't get anywhere by suing your customer base.
Carmi
http://writteninc.blogspot.com
Since "Compact Disc" is a trademark of Philips (remember the stink about not being able to use it on copy-protected CDs -- http://www.techstuff.ca/archives/81.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/01/18/philips_moves_to_put_poison/ ), I hope the law is NOT written carefully -- that way there's no such thing as a copy-protected "Compact Disc" and the law would not apply.
As an Englishman living in Norway I can't say I'm surprised by this latest bit of stupidity. But you must see it from the Norwegian point of view. When they're out at the weekend murdering defenceless animals the last thing they want is for someone to come along playing their downloaded music and disturb the sounds of slaughter.
I think this is perfect...why? Because, it will make sure that people don't buy copy-protected CDs, providing economic incentive for record companies to do away with the copy protection.
If it is only illegal to convert DRMed CDs is that any different than here in America... I thought the DMCA made it illegal to circumvent DRM. Then again all commercially produced CDs have a copy-protection bit set, it just gets ignored by everything. If this counts as copy protection then that could change things...
Sadly the U.S. recording industry hasn't learned anything. Sadder still is that I've read verifiable comments by professional writers and musicians who say that the DMCA is bad for them. They rely on listener support and exposure to draw new customers. The DMCA alienates those customers and denies them income. How well how many times has a friend sent you an mp3 and said "try this it sucks". Writers, artists and musicians with a clear head would rather you download and then run out to the store to buy a copy it you like it. As long as people are fairly honest the internet and your coveted mp3 player doesn't harm them at all. On the bright side those authors who I was talking about are some of my favorites.
Why should the recording industry be happy? The way I see it, people who (still are) buy cds are going to stop doing so.
I think there are a bunch of idiots up there in the industry. ... but then i should be an idiot to 'believe' all these news reports :)
Hi, Norwegian here too. The commision tasked with "harmonising" Norwegian and EU IP law is out out touch with both reality and the people (us!) they're supposed to be working for.
Oh, and with our prime minister being a priest: Yes, he is, but his party got somewhere around 10% of the votes. They basically have no power, but agreed to form a coalition with the conservative (not christian, but pro free trade, privatisation and deregulation) H? party, which have the real power. They did this so they could maintain at least some relevance by having a high profile minister. Norway ain't no christian country.
What's with the whaling comments though?
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/21168/newsDate/13-Jun-2003/story.htm
If you oppose whaling, but think it's fine to kill cows and eat them, you're a hypocrite.
Love, me.
Baxter: You are absolutely right.
Oiiiv: Well you are wrong. With this law you are only going to make backups to the same type media, ie CD -> CDR. Listening to a CD you own on your iPod? Not with this law.
Ahh the mismanagment of this beautiful country. It hurts.
Dear Junglejim,
When we slaughter our cows, do we harpoon them from a car and let them drag the car until they die, 15 - 60 minutes later? It's unecessary, there is no profits from it and it gives Norway a bad rep. That is all it is.
Norway is trying to be a player on the world scene, handing out peace prizes, brokering peace deals and in general telling people what to do because we know it all oh so well.
But when all the rest of the world is oppsosed to our whaling its a simple "fuck you". it's ridiculious.
I agree that harpooning is not a good way to do it.
When they slaugther cows, they use guns made for killing the cows swiftly, without pain, and they don't make a mass.
I wish they could come up with a more humane way to slaughter wales too. The problem is, I think, that they're so huge, you can't really get them to sit by your boat while you make preparations to kill them humanely.
It's a complicated question. It's just that it kinda ticks me off when people who have just seen free willy (he got put back in the tank after making the film, if you didn't know) get all emotional about this one case, suddenly become ecosystems experts, and want to save the cuddly big fishes.
I'm all for stopping whaling if they (the whales) just ask us too... :)
/flamebait
I suppose it's a bit silly to go from laws on CDs to whaling, but since people have, I'll put in my ten pence worth;
I don't buy the argument (which I have heard many times before, as above), that if you eat cows, then it is just equivalent to eating whales and you are a hypocrite to object. Actually this is a false argument, since cows have been so managed in terms of their breeding, food supply and killing, that they are in fact an industrial commodity and are bred, killed and consumed on an industrial scale.
Whereas, the whales were once killed on an industrial scale, but are in fact wild animals. In that sense, they are not comparable to cows, but to wild game. But even then, game tend to live in 'managed' environments and whales lives in the open sea.
I see no problem for minimal and managed killing for a small populace such as Norway, but the people who vaunt such arguments as above shouldn't fool either themselves or us, that it's the thin end of the wedge of whaling in the international context. It's about making money.
Since whale numbers are nothing like as much as historical levels and fertility impairing chemicals end up in the blubber of these animals, turning 21st century technology on the remaining populations would be foolhardy.
End of missive!
I still think you would make more cash out of selling good bread and skillingsboller to the English!
Dont worry about another one of these stupid laws, i live in Australia and under aussie laws we cant rip cd's at all. No-one seems to enforce it though.
This law will eventually be introduced in all EU countries - not sure about the current state of things but I know that it is already the same in Germany.
EU legislation demands that circumventing any copy protection to be made illegal by the EU members.
Since many CDs in Europe (nearly all major albums in Germany) are copy-protected and therefore cannot be ripped to a PC without some tricks, voila, you breach the law if you convert your CDs to MP3s.
Unrealistic, anti-consumer and stupid.
one small comment to comment 10. lately you can buy beer strength cider and similar in any place you can buy beer of similar strength. and the monopolys you comment on are starting to drop the pharmacy image. these days all new ones (and many of the old ones to) acts like any other store. walk in, look in the shelfs for what you want, pay and walk out.
Thanks for making about 50-60% of the Norwegian population criminals. I'm never gonna stop ripping my music to MP3 ever.
I am a Norwegian that live in Japan (last 25 yrs).
Norway is a semi-socialist country attempting (movie) 1984 control of its citizens.
Over the past 50 years politicians has indoctrinated Norwegians to tolerate any level of tax increase, excise taxes (avgifter), and VAT (the highest in Europe at 25%).
Tax lists of each Norwegian's taxable income and actually paid taxes are availlable for open view on the internet.
Car excise taxes are the most agressive in the world and add many hundred percentage points to the import value of the car. I.e. most of the money people pay for a car is taxes to the Norwegian government. Norwegian politicians twist and find loopholes in the EU agreements to avoid direct confrontation with the EU on this point, because their taxing effectively keep out any heavier luxury cars with large engines preventing automobile manufacturers from exporting their more profitable products to Norway - distorting competition big way.
Norwegian politicians love to use EU rules as an excuse if it supports them in increasing excise taxes and/or make stricter rules for Norwegians. They will also gladly use any loohole in EU rules to make the rules and regulations even stricter than the general EU rules, - if it serves their purposes. (I have a documented example of this which is too long for this post).
Another very strange thing is that Norway is not even a member of the EU, but still desparately want to emulate the laws and regulations of the EU. This is supposedly because Norway is bound by external agreements to the EU and expects to join sometime (but the prospect is not even on the calendar yet, because more than half the population is against it). Personally I am in favor of joining, and somehow I think the genuine EU rules overall are better than stupid distorted rules made up of norwegian politicians.
As other readers have pointed out, Norway limits alcohol sales to government run Monopoly stores that look like chemist outlets. Any PR is prohibited, and all the price tags consist mostly of excise tax (rather than actual cost of the products).
The same Norwegian politicians do not have any clue personally of how effective personal use of digitally stored music really works, and how it can be transferred to different formats using different media to enhance ones life.
The proposed law does not take into account that the most important reason for MP3 (and other similar formats) is compression to a more reasonable data size. Another question is the medium for storing and playing back the music (from a CD, from a hard disk, from solid memory etc.). To restrict the legality of using compression formats and media is so technically backwards, and goes so much against the development of the whole direction the world is going in, that it makes me feel shameful to be a Norwegian!!!
In Japan, where I live, SONY MUSIC and also some other major record labels last yer (2004) announced that they would stop issuing and selling copy protected CDs. This is because the Japanese consumers was so enranged that they were not free to upload their legally purchased and owned CDs to their own computers and use this music freely (for example on their own MP3 players).
My nearest CD shop closed this month (February 2005). I talked to the owner. He did NOT complain about that consumers download music on their computers and plays MP3 etc. He actually said that he himselfs owns and enjoys an iPod. No, he complained about the stupid policies of the record companies who do not understand the only sensible solution is to drastically lower the price of CD software, improve the quality of music, and sensibly change to fit into the technology and times we live in.
I will support any political movement in Norway to stop what is going on. I sincerely hope that Norwegians in this case do not take the common ZOMBIE ATTITUDE and simply do not care (and let the politicians get away with this).
Even if this law will be impossible to enforce, and even if it may only concern copy-protected CDs and DVDs, it is a step in a very wrong direction and it may stop anyone form commercially marketing any form of format altering, media altering system for whatever (even a normally legal) purpose.
Finally; remember that the internationally infamous (or just famous depending on how you see it) Jon Lech Johansen from Norway was the one who broke the DVD copy protect scheme for the purpose of playing his DVDs on his Linux OS PC. He was found innocent by the Norwegian courts according to present Norwegian laws.
Maybe Norwegian politicians felt that this should not happen again, and that this case was a blemish on Norway's reputation?
However, the Norwegian politicians' stupidity will make it clear what idiotic national system these politicians has made up.
Actually a local group of politicians in a north-western area of Norway has suggested introducing an excise tax on free movement in the nature (forests, mountains etc.) in their area.
In the end this country will be a place no-one wants to visit, nor want to be associated with.
Molbolandet Norge
Worth taking a look at:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/01/sony_copy-control_cd/
As Matt M said above, in Australia we can't rip CDs at all. It's illegal under our Copyright Act of 1968 to even make a backup copy of software or CDs unless specifically granted the right to by the EULA; we don't have the same "fair use" regulations as the US. Basically, I can buy a CD, and I can buy an iPod or other MP3 player, but I can't copy the music from said CD to said MP3 player. According to the Copyright Council and ARIA (our RIAA) when I buy a CD I'm buying the medium (ie the physical disc) not the music.
Of course, Microsoft recently released the Windows Media Center PCs here in Australia, but didn't tell anybody that you can't legally use most of its functions in this country. So much for their hard stance on piracy and DRM!
Beeing a norwegian musician (who has released an album on the marked) I think this law completely stinks. Its written by folks who grew up with LP's and has no idea on how the mp3 players work and that people actually use it for simpler use of their music.
The law hasn't come through yet (and hopefully never will), so its still legal to rip your CD's to mp3 or into any format of choise..