Does Toshiba have a backdoor to Blu-ray?

We're not entirely sure what the possibility of Toshiba having indirect access to Blu-ray IP would prove since HD DVD and Blu-ray already share the so much of the same laser technology, codecs, anti-piracy countermeasures, etc., but it is interesting to note that they may yet have a backup plan to capitalize on Blu-ray's success should HD DVD not be the chosen format in tomorrow's next-gen optical format war. TG Daily notes that Toshiba's and Samsung's supposedly independent joint venture operation by the name of TSST (Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology) running since 2004, will be manufacturing some of the first Blu-ray recorder devices to hit the market (and already put out one of the first slimline HD DVD devices). Apparently Toshi, which owns 51% of the company (and Samsung the other 49%), aren't stepping in to make sure their prodigal child isn't working against them. But hey, we all gotta keep roofs over our heads, right?

[chris @ Jan 22nd 2006 12:16PM]

that's smart. i like where their heads at.

[Kyran @ Jan 22nd 2006 1:09PM]

Clever. Perhaps if Blu-ray wins it might not be so bad after all. HD-DVD applied enough pressure to get the Blu-ray format to include features like Hybrid Discs and Mandatory Managed Copy. Still though, if the copy protection happens to be so good that it keeps paying customers from accessing the content, I'll wait for the next big thing. ;)

[Andrew Schmitt @ Jan 22nd 2006 3:03PM]

There does not need to be a winner here, I think too many people are applying the VHS vs. Betamax debate to a situation that isn't similar. Each technology (Blu-ray and HD-DVD) could fill an independent niche.

http://www.nyquistcapital.com/2006/01/12/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-both-win/

[Mike @ Jan 22nd 2006 7:38PM]

Smart plan. Quote:

"Each technology (Blu-ray and HD-DVD) could fill an independent niche."

No they couldn't! Have you read the specs? They're almost identical, even if both manage to do well they will be sharing a niche.

[Andrew Schmitt @ Jan 22nd 2006 9:01PM]

I am aware of the specs. Having two formats allows studios to leverage the existing, fully depreciated disc build infrastructure and create two levels of quality for two markets with different price sensitivity. Just like Video CD and DVD.

[Uchendu Nwachukwu @ Jan 22nd 2006 9:32PM]

The second a consumer realizes one of his favorite movies is only available on the competing format that his player doesn't support, that "independent niche" theory will go straight to the crapper.

[pucksprite @ Jan 22nd 2006 11:12PM]

" I am aware of the specs. Having two formats allows studios to leverage the existing, fully depreciated disc build infrastructure and create two levels of quality for two markets with different price sensitivity. Just like Video CD and DVD."


I, for one, do not intend to have an HD-DVD Player AND a Blu-Ray Player in each room of my house, nor on my computer. One format, please!

But, I do agree that this situation is not like the one faced by VHS and Betamax, which emerged into a virgin market, but more closely parallels the competition between SACD and DVD-Audio, in that those two high-definition formats (like HD-DVD/Blu-Ray) not only have to compete against each other, but also the established and sufficient-enough-for-the-average-consumer technology of the Audio CD (like DVD).

HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, like SACD and DVD-Audio, also require the purchase of specific (and at the moment, expensive) equipment to enjoy the pleasurable, but rather negligible gain in quality.

Here's hoping that the match between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray doesn't end similiarly to the dismal stalemate between SACD and DVD-A! We need a victor!

[Nathan @ Jan 23rd 2006 12:03AM]

I honestly think they will be competing against each other much like DVD+R and DVD-R did not too long ago. Eventually, if the standards really are so similar, there might even be a drive that can handle both.

[Ray Morris @ Jan 23rd 2006 2:08AM]

"Each technology (Blu-ray and HD-DVD) could fill an independent niche" If that were true, profits for either would be minimal unless the mark-up price is rather high, hurting their sales even more.

"I do agree that this situation is not like the one faced by VHS and Betamax, which emerged into a virgin market." Very true, we must remember this 'war' is over three markets at least - Blu-ray, HD-DVD and Standard DVD (not to mention UMD, I-pod, downloadable video, ect.). Blu-ray and HD-DVD could fill an 'extremely small' independent niche. What if niether one takes?

"HD-DVD and Blu-Ray also require the purchase of specific (and at the moment, expensive) equipment to enjoy the pleasurable, but rather negligible gain in quality". 'Rather negligible' it is, esp. to the average consumer who is happy with standard DVD
and SDTV!

[OddManOut @ Jan 23rd 2006 2:58AM]

Careful "Nathan", talk like that can engender a whole lotta hate from some people. I've posted similar musings before and every time people reply that IT JUST AIN'T POSSIBLE.

And yet, none of them really ever explain why...

:)

Only time will tell I suppose. But insofar as this is a 'war' it will eventually end in one of two ways. Either a victory for one party, or a stalemate. A victory would pretty obviously be one product or the other dominating the market...pretty cut and dry in concept. But a stalemate COULD (ah sey COULD) take the form of a compromise like dual function hardware (unified standards/software is even technically possible, but the parties involved have already vetoed that idea)

a la the afore mentioned "DVD+R/DVD-R" eventuality

or a simple lack of definitive resolution, like the afore mentioned status of SACD and DVD-A.

And lets not forget the fringe prediction, because I'd have to say at this point it's no less valid. It is within' the realm of possibility that Flash or even holographic storage could develop quickly enough that it/they overtake optical storage methods the same way DVDs eclipsed VHS. Certainly both formats have each seen delays, and even once they are on the market, the average Joe won't be able to afford this stuff for a while, which could give Holo and flash time to close the gap...

So anything's possible...

All right detractors...you may fire when ready!

[Kyran @ Jan 23rd 2006 1:47PM]

The reason why a hybrid player isn't going to happen for the time being is due to licensing issues.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/10/samsung-sez-combo-hd-dvd-blu-ray-player-is-a-no-go/
In a different story I compared this to DVD-A and SACD where simply no one is going to care. Seriously, everyone just upgraded their VHS collection to DVD and asking them to upgrade it again is *really* pushing it as it is. Throw in all that extra copy protection and Blu-Ray's ability to "punish" consumers who wish to play legitimately purchased foreign content (by intentionally breaking the players with region hacks) really makes this a sour deal.
Seriously, making legitimate products more dangerous to consumer equipment than virus laden bootlegs is not going to help discourage piracy, silly industry.
I see both of these formats being dead in the water while HD piracy runs rampant. The thing is MOST people still like to own tangible media because they feel having their entire movie collection copy-proof on a single hard drive may be a recipe for disaster... that and they may just be traditionalists.

[Kyran @ Jan 23rd 2006 1:50PM]

Gah, it looks like they fixed the double spacing issue. Let's try that link again:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/10/samsung-sez-combo-hd-dvd-blu-ray-player-is-a-no-go/

[OddManOut @ Jan 27th 2006 7:25AM]

Thank 'Kyran' ! Good stuff. By and large I can't disagree with your statements. Licensing will be factor in what hardware somes out from the big names.
But I don't know that that will stop any number of Chinese manufacturers who have in the past had very little respect for patents and intellectual property rights. But as you said, this is "for the time being", it usually takes a while for new tech to trickle down where the clone masters from TienSha can get at it, so even IF it does happen eventually, it probably won't be for a while. Par ticularly if your prediction is correct and the new Hi-def offerings meet with a cool or even luke-warm response.


Only time will tell, but thanks agian for a cogent, well thought out post/reponse!