Steorn Orbo: the thermodynamics defying energy product is named
By Ryan Block 
posted Feb 19th 2007 10:31PM
posted Feb 19th 2007 10:31PM
We wrote about Steorn last year when they took everyone by surprise with a full page ad in The Economist, and a (not so) simple promise: that they'd discovered a clean, perpetual energy system that would solve the world's energy problems. While we're not exactly any closer to knowing what this supposed thermodynamics and physics bending energy production mechanism actually is, Steorn has given it a name: Orbo. Detailed specs on the Orbo energy system are promised by the end of Q1 of this year; until then, with the scientific community all up in arms over promises to end the concept of energy scarcity and thereby transform the world economy, our enthusiasm is and will still remain curbed by our skeptics' hat which we can't take off (not even for a second).
Homer said it best....."We obey the laws of thermodynamics in this house...".
i bet this is the zune phone
So this is Vapor Energy?
orbo ??
I'm going to have to say no, Scott. The principal that this company is using is the property that economists and the news media at large don't have a clue what thermodynamics is.
I'm gonna have to say that unless this Steorn company is employing large numbers of the brightest minds in the world, who were extremely well funded and capable of overturning 320 years of established LAWS ( not theories ), that this is just a PR stunt.
To me, it sounds like a marketing ploy. 'Orbo' ???? Not likely. I'm sticking with my buddy I-Newt on this one.
Ten bucks says it's some kind of viral marketing scheme.
The people who are involved in the development and production of free energy magnetic devices
should be lauded as heros and celebrated by the world. MORE POWER TO THEM !!!
With the power of the internet .. the knowledge of free energy devices will not be kept from the masses of common engineers and scientists for much longer. DELLITRON
While it could very well be a PR stunt, in looking at their claims, it appears they may have created something, it just doesn't break the laws of thermodynamics. The website's titlebar is "Orbo - The Magnetic Free-Energy Generator". There claim is free, clean, and constant energy. During a sunny day, the same thing can be said about solar, but we aren't creating that energy, it exists, but we just don't tap it. Since this appears to be a magnetic based device, it probably uses ambient magnetic fields that already exist on the earth and surrounding space. There are already small "free energy" kits that take magnetic field energy to create a few mAs. This actually isn't "free energy". I see this as something similar.
As a physicist -- NO, bad Steorn bad!
As someone that saw Witch Hunter Robin -- are you kidding me?
Bad physics + Stealing a name = Sux0r
I mean... Will this make Al Gore stop talking so much? Don't get me wrong, i'm all against global warming, but... Dear LORD can that man cause a good nap!
I know their claims sound crazy but seriously isn't it about time that scientist invent...magic.
Come on you so know you want a car that runs off of "?" that does this by means of "?" because "?"="?" and "?" gives us "?".
I think some of the stuff I heard about the impossibilities of infinite energy is a bunch of baloney.
It harnesses the power of cow farts, directs the smelly stuff into a pipe which then traverses to an engine, which then powers a magneto which then gives us wicked shiznit electricity. wootah!
its just another segway scooter. c'mon guys
Good thinking Alex!
Although personally I think that fitting cows with after-burners to combat global warming is a far better idea.
Then we could harness the power of rocket-propelled cows! Just think of the possibilities... self-incinerating hamburgers, for one.
First off, IAAPS (I Am A Physics Student).
This could be a problem of definition. Of course they aren't going to stop the rampant speculation about 'infinite energy' but my bet would be that they are generating Free Energy (I use caps here for a reason; this is not what you think it is). The Helmholtz Free Energy is a thermodynamic state variable, and there is another variable known as the Gibbs Free Energy which has to do with chemistry. Neither of these imply that they are creating energy for free; rather they are simply useful relationships in thermal physics and/or chemistry.
Now, one (or both) of these is frequently referred to as the 'free energy' of a system, when people don't want to type or write the rest. This means that their motto is not completely implausible: Orbo - The Magnetic 'Free-Energy' Generator could simply mean they have found a way to increase one of these variables in a system.
However, they aren't going to say no to free publicity... so they put out press releases/mottos with selective missing information that makes the general public think they're pulling energy out of nowhere or violating the laws of thermodynamics. Their claims are vague enough to allow for this.
Just my $0.02.
From their website:
"The sum of these claims for our Orbo technology is a violation of the principle of conservation of energy, perhaps the most fundamental of scientific principles."
Ah yes, they claim nothing less than the invalidation of fundamental laws of physics.
Their investor relations page is awesome:
http://steorn.com/about/investor/
That energy doesn't look so free to me. Perhaps their gizmo just burns 1 Euro notes for power.
Dang it, you're right Ryan. I was trying to cut them some slack about the whole 'violating the laws of physics' thing, but they do go out and say that explicitly. I missed that on my first quick perusal of their site; good catch.
Doesn't make the Free Energy thing less valid. If it isn't one of the Free Energies, then they are claiming something completely impossible (IMHO).
Theory: They have a bunch of software and/or business method patents that they are using to sue other companies. The heat they are taking for these actions is then converted into electricity.
I have been following the Steorn forum since its inception last August. Based on forty years experience as a Scientific Officer in Government Research I am confident that they have what they claim. The energy is analogous to that demonstrated by a Crookes radiometer (to put things in visual terms which a non-scientist can understand) but from a finer scale of motion, motion which magnet organize to a state of negative entropy. Their device is not breaking any hallowed law (the straw man their critics erect) but merely extending them to new, as yet untapped, depths.
Please, viral marketing and undercover corporate schills posting on blogs is not anything we haven't seen before. Its just disrespectful and goes to show how little faith you have in peoples intelligence. I hope somehow it blows up in your face and you get done for fraud.
I second Grimer's comment. I also have been following the Steorn thing since last August's Economist add and as a physicist I have been impressed by their professionalism, the fact that they are a bona fide company and not an x-box mail box, and the evidence that has been given to the democratically elected Steorn Forum rep that shows that 12 top notch scientist have been testing the technology since Jan 1st 2007, according to the stated plan of milestones on the way to verification. No other ' free energy' claim before has been so calmly and quietly professional. So we shall soon see who is the fool on April 1st , when they will make a major announcement.
I am also a professional scientist who has studied the Steorn forum for a while. My conclusion is that it is all a load of bs. They do NOT have what they claim.
If this is true would it mean that invading countries for their oil would be a thing of he passm or is it gonna be sabotaged for the sake of making billions of dollars
Frank,
"Their device is not breaking any hallowed law (the straw man their critics erect)"
This would be true but for one simple fact - they ARE claiming to be breaking fundamental laws, or as they put it:
"The sum of these claims for our Orbo technology is a violation of the principle of conservation of energy, perhaps the most fundamental of scientific principles."
"So we shall soon see who is the fool on April 1st , when they will make a major announcement"
I split my sides laughing. They even TELL you its all a joke in the timing of the announcement and people still believe it!
Maybe they are joined to the Phantom Games console people, or the Moller Flying car? Im sure anyone who beleives this company has already paid their huge deposit on both those items.
Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn says, "In some ways, this looks like the best technology you can develop in the world, but in actual fact, it's probably the worst because the commercial battles in this arena are larger than a company of twenty people should rationally engage in; because we have to fight public opinion, we have to fight the scientific community, and we have to fight the energy industry. You couldn't pick a worse battle ground."
Indeed, Sean. I'm eager to see what you and your team come up with. Best wishes to you. I certainly hope this is real. This is how radical changes in society begin.
And taking my home off the power grid? Bring it on, Sean.
From Wikipedia:
"..a minor update on the jury's progress, as well as detailed technical specifications of the Orbo technology, will be released at the end of financial quarter 1, 2007. Some forum members have noted that this happens to coincide with April 1, 2007."
A bit early to fall for an April Fool's joke, eh Engadget?
It would be one of the greatest scientific breakthroughs in the history of man. They have interviews with the CEO and the marketing guy on the site. You do the math.
Is it a Halo 3 viral marketing scam? I remember reading that they set up some pump in Africa:
http://www.steorn.com/about/community/africa.aspx
and it so happens that the latest Halo teasers take place there too.
I have been following Steorn's claims for many months and I'm convinced they are telling the truth and that their technology is indeed completely real. They are a completely real company in every way. Anyone can do a little investigative work on the web and see that they have a real office, real labs, real financial records, highly qualified employees, and have been in existence for many years. Before their free energy discovery they patented and sold anti-fraud security related technology. It's all on the web for anyone that wants to look. Steorn is as REAL as can be.
Also, their business plan is unfolding as we speak. Right now a jury of top notch scientists are performing tests to validate their technology. Additionally, an over-unity validation product (to be launched upon the validation of the technology by the jury of scientists) is being manufactured as we speak.
Those that are libelously attack Steorn need to realize that in a few months they could be eating a large serving of humble pie.
By the way, I'm just an ordinary person who has been researching Steorn's claims for months and has been participating on their forum. I have came to the conclusion that they are telling the truth and this year is going to be very, very exciting indeed.
I'm not so sure...remember this "Quantum Computer" thing we had a few days ago? It turned out to be real as well as far as I can tell.
There are a lot of things we have not understood yet about nature, so maybe it is possible that they have something.
The big question to me is...how much energy can this thing they have produce? If it is enough, then they could very well be solving one of today's biggest problems in almost all areas (from cellphones to cars and heating/lighting houses) but if it is a weak energy source only, then the applications would be very limited and the impact much smaller.
@Z -- thanks for taking the time to capture Sean McCarthy's quote:
"In some ways, this looks like the best technology you can develop in the world, but in actual fact, it's probably the worst because the commercial battles in this arena are larger than a company of twenty people should rationally engage in; because we have to fight public opinion, we have to fight the scientific community, and we have to fight the energy industry. You couldn't pick a worse battle ground."
These are either the sincere, humble, hopeful words of a brave pioneer or the twisted rhetoric of a huckster at the center of a very unfunny joke. I prefer to believe the former.
The Earth is round? Columbus, you're a madman.
The *Earth* revolves around *Sol*? Galileo, you're a madman.
Tiny, invisible things called "germs" cause disease? Pasteur, you're a madman.
No one could draw energy out of steam, until someone did it. No one could draw energy from a combustible liquid, until someone did it. No one could draw energy from electrons, from the sun, from the atom -- until someone *did it*.
No new energy form could be exploited until someone discovered it, developed the technology to harness it. And each time it was something that already existed in scads in nature.
Perhaps one day soon we can add magnetism, or quantum vacuum, or inter-dimensional whatever's to the list of things no one could draw energy from -- until these guys did it.
Good luck, Sean!
@badnegro:
The difference is that the things you mention rely on a previous total lack of knowledge as opposed to pre-existing knowledge to the contrary. There was no "rule" or "proof" which said the earth was flat, people just assumed it was because before the days of long-distance travel it looked that way.
This is exactly the opposite- there /are/ hundreds of years of pre-existing scientific research which say this isn't possible.
And while your "no one could draw energy out of..." paragraph looks nice and poetic, it really doesn't apply. They're claiming to break the law of conservation of energy. That means they're drawing energy out of NOTHING. Nobody could ever draw energy out of nothing, and nobody ever will, because by definition there's no energy to draw out!
Roland said
"I'm not so sure...remember this "Quantum Computer" thing we had a few days ago? It turned out to be real as well as far as I can tell.
There are a lot of things we have not understood yet about nature, so maybe it is possible that they have something.
The big question to me is...how much energy can this thing they have produce? If it is enough, then they could very well be solving one of today's biggest problems in almost all areas (from cellphones to cars and heating/lighting houses) but if it is a weak energy source only, then the applications would be very limited and the impact much smaller."
But thats the point we DO understand this about science, the theroy is proven, it is fact that you cannot create energy from thin air.
What is being suggested is that they can undermine the most fundamental of scientific principals, it would be tantamount to throwing scientific understanding back into the dark ages. (corret me if im wrong physics students) but if you undermine this law, you undermine just about every other law, including relativity. The world as we know it would be radically changed. A scientific H-Bomb like this would not end up falling into the hands of a small commercial company.
Im sorry, but im quite happy to eat anentire humple pie, because i would stake everything i won on the fact that this company has not broken down the laws of physics.
If this isn't real I really do hope they go down for fraud. Right about now it is quite unfunny.
A couple years ago I ran across some info regarding something perhaps similar to what Steorn is claiming, a device called the MEG (Motionless Electromagnetic Generator) - developed in part by Tom Bearden (http://www.cheniere.org/).
The site leaves something to be desired, but there's some pretty interesting (and complicated) information to check out - bring some Advil...
Roland Rohde
I'm not so sure...remember this "Quantum Computer" thing we had a few days ago? It turned out to be real as well as far as I can tell.
Yes as quantum mechanics is a real field with real scientists that post their observations and experiment outcomes in journals for the world to see, review and criticize accordingly.
On the other hand we have a group of people not forth-coming with any information that could possibly lend their claim any credibility, they're outright declaring they've tossed aside a major law of thermodynamics and everything seems to point to fraud.
For the people (or person) that are posting the "I've been on their forums and I believe them", why do you believe them? What have they *done* to give a single iota of information concerning this product? You mean to tell me that you're taking other peoples words, over the internet with 100% trust and tagging along? Do you also send along your bank account information when the "I are heir to the late king Mussad" emails come along?
Don't get me wrong, this would be great but until the company is forthcoming with information they're just stirring up a commotion which, undoubtedly is why a handful of people have called this a production of viral marketing, we've seen this in the past.
If this energy scheme involves hunting down witches, I will be simultaneously amused and scared pantsless. ("Orbo" was the name of a mysterious substance in the anime "Witch Hunter Robin" which eliminated a witch's magical powers.)
The thing about the laws of physics is that they are, erm, Laws. If a device seems to break them, then we may need to change our understanding of what those laws are and how they operate, but the laws themselves remain immutable. Therefore any device which claims to 'break' them should be treated with a huge amount of scepticism, if not outright ridicule. Claims like this come from time to time, from seemingly respectable sources; almost infinite data compression, reactionless propulsion, free energy and the like. I'm geting a little weary and bored. Care to invest in my time machine company, anyone?
Just another ponzi scheme. Shame on The Economist for allowing the ad(If they even did-I don't read that). I bet the people who believe in this are also in line to receive unclaimed funds in Nigeria.
I have noticed one trend is that I keep hearing about magnetics being used in this "so-called" free energy device. Now, I'm not a physics major, or a scientist, just someone with an IQ over 100, but I am quite aware of the law that states energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted. Magnetism is a form of energy, albeit a not very well understood one (much like gravity), so if this thing uses magnets, it has to somehow be converting this magnetic energy to usable energy (like generators do, but not as efficiently).
If they're "creating" energy somehow, I call bs. Even in nature there's no demonstration of energy creation or destruction.
digg coughed this up http://www.flickr.com/photos/72732035@N00/page2/
From Wikipedia:
"A physical law, scientific law, or a law of nature is a scientific generalization based on empirical observations of physical behavior. They are typically conclusions based on repeated scientific experiments over many years, and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community."
So essentially a law is based on the knowledge that we have at our disposal at current time. However how is this in any way preventing us from discovering forces that will invalidate or change them? Again i quote wikipedia on it's entry on Conservation law where it lists the conservation of energy as one of the laws that are:
"...said to be exact laws, or more precisely have never been shown to be inexact"
Don't be so sure to call the world flat, sure be skeptical, but don't dismiss it entirely.
I think it is real. I'm looking forward to all the people who think it is a scam (the status quo merchants) being wrong, but then telling us how they knew there was something to it all along, but just wanted to play devils advocate to test us.
Ha Ha!!
I suspect these guys have accidentally stumbled on a well of energy with their magnetic contraption in much the same way man stumbled on wells of oil in the Arabian sand. The luck of the Irish!
(They'll be no more jokes about thick Irishmen, then, will there!!!)
Energy is not being created nor destroyed, but merely being taken from one place to another. If you deny that the place it comes from exists, because it doesn't fit your flat-earth model of conventional physics then you need to put the word "created" in the place of comes from. Since created means to be brought into existence from nothing or nowhere.
I am also a professional scientist who has studied the Steorn forum for a while. My conclusion is that it is all a load of bs. They do NOT have what they claim.
"All a load of bs"???
Wow, that's really well put!!! Congratulations!
If I remember from my O'Level Physics. It was Apparatus, Method, Results, Conclusion.
I never remember writing "All a load of old bs" as my conclusion, but I guess that was in the days before GCSEs.
While the Science Fiction reader in me hopes they have something cool, the engineer is very doubtful, especially give the paucity of evidence - other than "trust us" and "invest now, get in on the ground floor!"
Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Until they present and demonstrate a device, they have nothing but hot air. Marketing weenie BS like it violates the laws of thermo do not give me encouragment; just confirms they lack understanding. If it takes advantage of poorly understood physical relationships in novel ways, well, that's a bit more believable; it still needs to be proven, but it won't have every engineer/scientist shugging and saying "whatver".
Give me an isolated box into which we place the gizmo and load of my choosing. Plug my load in and let it produce power, at it's peak watt output. For a long while. Until then, it's all Science Fiction. And I'm thinking quite a few of those writers have done it better.
You gotta love it when the strutting peacocks of science, who claim such a deep understanding of nature and such a mastery of the “laws” which govern it, proclaim the impossibility of something. Ah, yes, business as usual. Let’s take a look back to…what was it, yesterday it seems…oh, yeah the reaction of the scientific community to the achievement of the Wright brothers (of course, they weren’t members of the cult, so perhaps it all makes sense.) This is an excerpt from Wade Frazier’s wonderfully radical A Healed Planet website, the sections called The Energy Racket Takes Shape and Science and the "Real World":
In January 1905, more than a year after they first flew, science weighed in on the persistent reports that the Wright brothers were flying. Scientific American ran an article about the Wright brothers' flights. They implied the Wright brothers were hoaxers, and cited the primary reason for not believing the reports:
"If such sensational and tremendously important experiments are being conducted in a not very remote part of the country, on a subject in which almost everybody feels the most profound interest, is it possible to believe that the enterprising American reporter, who, it is well-known, comes down the chimney when the door is locked in his face - even if he has to scale a fifteen-story skyscraper to do so - would not have ascertained all about them and published the broadcast long ago?"
There it is, the myth of the vigilant, free press. The house organ of science stated its reason for not believing the Wright brothers and their claims of flight: because they had not read about it in the papers. It was not until September 1908, when President Roosevelt ordered tests at Fort Myer, Virginia, and the Wright brothers flew over the town for a week (after first flying over Paris, where they first found fame, because the French were far more receptive to the Wright brothers than Americans were), that the Wright brothers' flights were accepted. It could be denied no longer. Science was finally forced to accept it. Even then, the Smithsonian Institution, which helped fund Langley’s failed experiments, clouded the issue for generations, trying to deny the Wright Brothers their rightful place as the fathers of powered flight.
But why trust Wade—he’s not an initiate, either. How about Bibhas De, a working scientist who’s actually made some discoveries? Try PHYSICS AND PHYSICISTS AT THE DAWN OF THE 21st CENTURY: INTRODUCTION to THE-FOUNDATION-IS-THE-FRONTIER SERIES, Essays on Physics in the Twenty-first Century by Bibhas De. And there’s plenty more where that came from. Remember, this is the Age of Cover Your Ass, in the Era of the Bottom Line (and it sure ain’t the truth.)
..
I also think that Steorn might be sitting in something here; possibly a new breakthrough that in all likelihood can change the direction of humankind.
N. Tesla also claimed to have such technology; I also believed him to be true. Unfortunately he was centuries ahead of his time.
In any case, the world will know SOON enough how valid the claim of "free, clean, and constant" energy is.
what gets people all riled up is the "free" bit. PEOPLE, quit thinking like Neanderthals; despite all of our current technology, today's science barely understands the real workings of gravity, much less the full workings and understanding of electro-magnetics. IF we did have all laws of physics understood, there wouldn't be a need for scientists now would there???? That said, all they mean by "free" is that you dont have to pay for it; nature pays for it in some "yet unknown" manner. If one told a cave man 10,000 years ago that there was something called protons, neutrons, and electrons, the caveman would probably reacted as a Neanderthal.
think outside the box, anything is possible. anything.
i give a shout out to the sane, intellectually minded users here who are giving steorn a chance to prove their technology.
To the person sceptical about wether or not the Steorn ad appeared in the Economist: Not heard of Google? Or wiki? a quick search shows that, yes, the ad was real.
Halo 3 promo? Yeah, right. What a great way to promote Halo 3: Spend millions inventing a fake company/website/hire actors etc for the net result of a few thousand people visint your bogus website and about 25-50 regular posters on your bogus forum.
April fools joke? Yeah, loads of comapnies tend to invest millions and years in April Fool Jokes, don't they?
Just because a famous scientists theories become scientific laws, does not mean they are actual facts. Scientists are as guilty of self agrandisement as the next man. and all to often in the past we have seen scientists and politicians and religious leaders fix things to make their arguement stand. I have been working for sometime with electro magnetic energy generation for sometime, and I believe that its very probable that it can be done. Physics students and students alike need to stop reciting the work of others as fact and take the chance of looking like a pillock to the world and be a real scientist. Question everything and never say its impossible At the end of the day it works then find out why it works. a few letters after a name mean nothing.