Nintendo DS does geopositioning with WiFi

A highly reliable source just sent in this image of a Nintendo DS using WiFi triangulation -- rather than GPS -- for geopositioning data (sorta like that iriver W10 we mentioned back in January). Not sure when this might be commercialized, but it would potentially make it possible to add location-based data to DS games without requiring some sort of GPS add-on. Click on for a full-sized shot.

[FrankTheCrank @ Mar 5th 2007 4:04PM]

Wow, uhm, great...

[Brennan @ Mar 5th 2007 4:05PM]

geopositioning data? Sounds like GPS but engadget says it isnt the same, how?

considering we knew DS would have some kind of WiFi connection to Wii but this is interesting news.

[Dan @ Mar 5th 2007 6:28PM]

GPS uses satellites to triangulate position. Standard WiFi does not have the ability to communicate with satellite -- it's being done by IP address lookup.

[Kavi Siegel @ Mar 5th 2007 4:06PM]

I doubt that. I read the GPS numbers, and looked them up. Appearantly, his house is somewhere north of Canada, on the Arctic ocean.

[Brennan @ Mar 5th 2007 4:13PM]

suprised u can read the numbers, n i have glasses on too lol.

[Todd @ Mar 5th 2007 4:18PM]

I open the pic in photoshop and monkey-ed it. Entered the GPS numbers shown on the DS screen into google and got:

http://www.brainyzip.com/zipcodes/48/48167.html

Seems accurate.

[Kavi Siegel @ Mar 5th 2007 4:10PM]

(Side note, not like I care anyways)

[Morgon @ Mar 5th 2007 4:11PM]

Well, GPS triangulates your approximate location down to I think within 9 feet is the consumer-grade limit. What this will most likely do is grab your location based on GeoLocation, which is the mapping of your IP address to a general area. Sometimes it's as general as your ISP's location, and some companies have invested the time to find out a bit more.

So they won't know that you're in your kitchen, but they will know what particular state, and at least the general regional neighborhood you're in, if not your actual town. This is the same technology that gives you your "MySpace maps" or other visual representation of visitors to a particular site.

[Kavi Siegel @ Mar 5th 2007 4:15PM]

92.4264431, -83.4338256

And my doctor says I need glasses. lmao

[Brennan @ Mar 5th 2007 4:15PM]

oh, that's pretty cool thx for answering my question by the way ^_^.

[Adam @ Mar 5th 2007 5:24PM]

You do need glasses

42
-83

Which, happens to be in Michigan, just like it says on the screen.

[Kavi Siegel @ Mar 5th 2007 4:28PM]

Oh, that would explain it. I had a 9 instead of 4.

[JD @ Mar 5th 2007 4:47PM]

Wow.. this should work great. Just like every website that thinks I am in Texas just because my internet provider is based out of there instead Virginia.

[Jared @ Mar 5th 2007 5:36PM]

If its using Wi-Fi, isn't it triangulating using access points? That's different then GeoLocation/IP look up like websites use.

[SnowingCookies @ Mar 5th 2007 5:39PM]

The above pictures show the NDS Lite (Black) with SuperCard and some homebrew FOR THE WIN!

[Jose @ Mar 5th 2007 5:46PM]

Hey peter Rojas when are you going to do that engadget reader meet up like last year when you do it email me at [e-mail]

[David R @ Mar 5th 2007 6:22PM]

There's nothing special about IP geolocation, there are tons of free services online. I could probably knock out an app that does exactly the same as the above, and run it on my DS, in less than 30 minutes.

[Ondra Soukup @ Mar 5th 2007 7:32PM]

Tell the guy to upgrade his rig, when I got my SuperCard, the sticker was the first thing to come off :)
And about the upgrade - you have to have slot-1 thingie like R4 is to be the coolest kid on the street.

[Alex @ Mar 5th 2007 7:45PM]

YAWN, the PSP can do total GPS by using MapThis! (homebrew), or even that GPS connector.

[Matt @ Mar 5th 2007 7:51PM]

"Wifi Triangulation" is pretty much crap. Oh goodie, so you know I'm
from . How is this useful? It's not.Try this "Wifi Triangulation"
by visiting http://www.ip-adress.com/Look up any IP in fact...as if
you couldn't tell which city they are in from their host name in most
cases.

On another note. David R is serious about his claim...he's got robots with lazers.

[robo @ Mar 5th 2007 9:01PM]

I see the lat/long as:

42.426445º,-83.433026º

http://maps.google.com/?z=11&ll=42.426445,-83.433026

(92º is not a valid latitude :D)

[SuperChuck @ Mar 5th 2007 11:08PM]

Info on wifi triangulation:

http://www.navizon.com

GPS works by picking up a signal from 3 or more satellites in geosynchronous orbit. By comparing the strength of the signals and applying a little trig, a GPS receiver can approximate its position on the planet.

Wifi triangulation works on a similar concept. Rather than using satellite signals, it uses known access point locations. If you can pick up 3 or more known access points, you can compare signal strength, apply some trig, and approximate your location.

[Matt @ Mar 6th 2007 1:29AM]

Please. A single access point is just as "in"-accurate as three.

[SuperChuck @ Mar 6th 2007 8:11AM]

Matt, did you even read my post before replying?
I'll go over it a little slower, just for you.

Wifi triangulation is based on knowledge of the location of several access points. Initially, someone goes through an area with a GPS connected to a computer with a wifi adapter. As the wifi adapter "sniffs" access points, it applies a little trig to find the location of the access point. Since the computer has a GPS connected, it can record the location of the AP in absolute terms. Kismet is a piece of software that will do just that.

Now that one has a map of access points, finding where you are is a simple matter of sniffing known access points. If you can find 3 or more known access points, you can use signal strength to approximate how far away they are. If you can approximate how far away they are, you can apply simple trig to find out where you are.

This method has nothing to do with IP addresses. In fact, you don't even need to connect to the access points. You are merely using the radio inside the wifi adapter to identify access points and their signal strength.

[Dave Broadwin @ Mar 6th 2007 9:47AM]

@SuperChuck - if its using the same stuff as the w10 then it looks like its skyhook's wifi system -- "iriver W10 uses Skyhook for WiFi-based positioning". this could be pretty awesome ... think PacManhattan for your DS

[Nick @ Mar 6th 2007 1:40PM]

That's all well and good...

but can it run Doom?

[dakotareese @ Mar 9th 2007 1:32AM]

This looks a lot like an early version of a game we are developing at Georgia Tech's Mobile Technologies Group lab. PictoHunt (http://mtg.gatech.edu/news.php) is a locative photo-hunt that uses the DS & WiFi Triangulation.

The system in the picture looks like it sniffs out its position, does a server connect/query, parses the return (a good DS XML parser would be cool), and then simply displays the return. It isn't actively determining its Lat/Long coordinates. If you reverse geo-code the coordinates it displays, it lands you in either an Irish Bar or Chow Baby restaurant. One of them must have open WiFi. We followed a similar course early on, but we found that it wasn't the best solution.

Often you can sniff out your location based on the WiFi around you, but if none of the networks are open, you can't perform the server query. We're moving to a model where every time the DS encounters an open WiFi network, it downloads the latest 'map' info and stores it. Obviously as our 'map' scales, we will be improving the solution (probably just storing your immediate area).

As far as WiFi vs. GPS: We have a custom GPS system as well, but there are situations were GPS isn't the best. In areas with a lot of tall buildings, multi-pathing errors through off your GPS accuracy. Also GPS isn't a very workable solution if you want to create an experience in an in-door mall. Basically WiFi Triangulation and GPS are two clubs in the locative golf bag. You simply use the best on for the task at hand.