Yet another perpetual motion machine fails to prove anything
By Darren Murph 
posted Feb 5th 2008 7:57PM
posted Feb 5th 2008 7:57PM
[Thanks, Mihir]
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If perpetual motion machines are impossible, how come the perpetual motion crackpot ideas keep coming round every six months perpetually.
Well...the fact that they are "impossible" is exactly the answer to your question. IF someone were to achieve the impossible, don't you think their reward would be pretty significant? Thus, it's an easy way for mediocre scientists to take a shot at glory.
Sometimes, people need to put a little more thought into their comments...it would be much appreciated.
never say never!
never.
There. I said it.
its not impossible its implausable, if cold fusion theory works then its possible to create perpetual motion machines, but by making a perpetual motion machine it would require pyshics to be broken or at least re written, as pointed out in futurama you cant tarvel faster than light, so scientists increased the speed of light, just like time travel or instant galaxy to galaxy, quatum pyshics shows us that these are indeed possible just that calculation and energy required is silly,
@BIGENS: Just because cartoon characters can rewrite physics doesn't mean we can.
As long as there's friction and air resistance, there's no perpetual motion.
Kinda off topic, but can we make GED(gas Exchange Devices, they convert carbon-dioxide into O2 and C) like in RAMA? They would certainly help out the global warming problem.
Way to miss his point a little there Backlin.
@abuzar, thats basically what plants do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis
@ abuzar
I was wondering about this too, but apparently scientists have tried making a compound more effective than gas exchange than those used photosynthesis, and have been unable to do so. Billions of years of evolution yield finely tuned machines :)
Perpetual motion crackpot ideas keep coming around because the world is full of crackpots. And in some cases unscrupulous crackpots who use their device to attract "investors" (i.e. rubes) with such claims.
First of all, Johan S's comment was clearly a joke, but then on a more serious note, perpetual motion as we know it is definitely NOT impossible, it's just beyond our current understanding of physics.
Anyone who thinks our current set of physical laws and equations is complete and perfect is way more of a crackpot than any of these basement scientists. We're still very early in our civilization's development, we still have much to learn and much to discover.
FYI, Cold Fusion doesnt work. It never has, and no physicist with a degree would ever claim that it could. Cold Fusion is impossible. Wouldnt you think the stars would already be running in cold fusion if it were too?
The first rule of Thermodynamics is You do NOT Talk about Thermodynamics!
The fifth rule of thermodynamics is one thermodynamics at a time.
That's actually the fourth rule. Five is no shoes, no shirts in the thermodynamics.
LISA! In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
the 2nd rule to!
I made a perpetual motion machine once, but it only worked in Atlantis...if Ameila Earhart spat on it during a full moon.
the third rule of thermodynamics is no smoking
now if we could only harness gravity...
we can harness gravity, we do every day...
it helps us get rid of self-pitying people
Last I heard, science can't explain how gravity works. Is that still true?
CK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity#General_relativity
@californiakid: Gravity is a law. You obey laws even if you don't understand them.
Capishe?
We know the "HOW" in gravity. We do not know the "WHY"
Um-mm we do harness gravity. It's called orbiting satellites.
We do harness gravity: Hydro-power.
I made a perpetual motion machine, but if you look at it, it stops working.
I can easily become invisible unless somebody is looking at me
Oh, Mystery Men, you were so good but so bad....
My cat is both alive and dead at the same time! See? Come look!
Kitty? Kitty? Oh, God! You killed it!!!
I had a perpetual motion device, but the bird drank all the water
Ha, that was funny!
I have a perpetual motion machine but if I let it run for more than 3 minutes the exponential power of it could very well rip a tear in the space time continuum and place me either in the past or a black hole. I'd show ya a video but my basement has no lights. I see by the glow of the universe.
1955 is not such a bad year to end up in.
omgosh i have the same multimeter! i'm famous!
That, or you both buy 2nd rate DMM's. :P
BURN!!!
oh wait no its not
i hope the laws of thermodynamics change now!! (whih i doubt)
Fascinating. It may not end up being what it seems but I hope we can learn something in the face of ridicule and disbelief.
I voted you down because your comment was one of the only serious ones. Come on lighten up, we know perpetual motion is impossible except in theory.
I can lift myself in the air by pulling on my bootstraps really hard. It may not end up being what it seems but the ridicule and disbelief are just not fair!
Fair enough. I certainly don't believe it's a perpetual motion machine under the laws of physics as we understand them. It's just that *whatever* this thing is doing is being demonstrated all over to reputable scientists and nobody can explain it. Just seems like this is the time for investigation not (yet) mockery.
You guys need to lay off, it's usually "crackpot" ideas that turn out to vastly reduce energy consumption and benefit mankind.
Actually, no. Most crackpot ideas usually remain crackpot ideas and don't benefit anyone. Most inventions are based on solid, known science.
Yea... aside from the fact that if this worked, the universe wouldn't, ya know, exist...
The idea of some sort of "AHA!" moment in invention is just and outright false myth. It can happen very very rarily. But look at all your favorite inventions they are products of a long line of a lot of very hard work based on previous experiences with a specific vision in mind.
I can almost guarantee you that the next big breakthrough in energy production will be something coming out of either a university or an oil company.
@ thethirdmoose:
Well, if the universe didn't exist, then I suppose that would solve the energy crisis...
Fair enough. I certainly don't believe it's a perpetual motion machine under the laws of physics as we understand them. It's just that *whatever* this thing is doing is being demonstrated all over to reputable scientists and nobody can explain it. Just seems like this is the time for investigation not (yet) mockery.
Hey, it's another noisy spinning magnetic thing. But the question is, will this one be the solution to the impending energy crisis?
Or maybe we should try hooking the national grid to the numerous pioneering physicians currently spinning in their graves.
*Physicists*, btw :)
Nuclear. That is the only viable solution to the impending energy crisis.
Agreed, at the moment. It's also very clean in the grand scheme of things.
Why are medical doctors spinning in their graves over this?
woohoo! a tip i submitted actually got posted!
As Rowdy Roddy would say:
"I have come to chew bubblegum and to kick ass....and I'm all out of bubblegum."
wtf is up with engadget's commenting system lately?
@Bigens. Cold fusion has nothing to do with perpetual motion machines. Cold fusion is just a chemically induced fusion process. There is still more energy put into the process than received, but a lot of it is potential chemical energy, and it's not nearly the difference that normal fusion requires.
In Futurama, they simply reduced the speed of light in order to be able to travel faster than it. ;)
Perhaps we should try to create a perpetual motion machine that feeds off of people's crackpot ideas about perpetual motion machines, i tells ya we would have enough fuel to power something at least half as big as one third of the sun!
Thane Heins...you're the greatest!
Did anyone notice that when the guy starts the magnetic wheel, he reaches behind it and flips something. A switch, perhaps?
That's just the switch to engage the reality distortion field.
As Einstein said:
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
I think it proves that a sucker is indeed born every minute.
ya, we'll see
Orbo cares not for your puny Earth failures!
Will it Blend?
I love his explanation. Wait, no. I hate it because he sounds like all the people I had to deal with when I was at work. Only he dosen't have a powerpoint presentation to explain his 'synergy' and 'out of the box thinking'. Still just as pointless.
"The back-emf goes in here, and then back out of the rotor."
Umm. no. Your shaft would be magnetically sticking to the bearings if that were the case. And no, using a non-magnetic shaft (aluminum) and bearings (ceramic) woulden't work either--it woulden't be able to send the magnetism through the shaft and back into the rotor, which apparently you need for this amazing piece of equipment.
Not only that, but your Rotor sounds like my old Ford--about 3 seconds from complete and total failure. Balance your rotor, or else it will eat your bearings alive. This is problably why you cannot get good speeds out of your rotor.
Speaking of speeds... Your not spinning at 50RPM you idiot. That would be less than one per second, and we clearly see that it is moving much faster than that--and you can hear it moving faster than that too. I don't know how much, but I can guarantee that it is NOT 50RPM.
QED. Your design sucks, and your pseudoscience makes the rest of the scientists look bad. Stop it. Just stop it right now. Quit making shit up, and posting it on YouTube.
I was thinking the same thing about the speed.
Yeah, what about that speed... I agree it seems a bit off.
No, people like yourself make scientists look bad. This guy may not have a PhD in physics, but i believe he is (and others) are on to something. I understand the fact that 99% of crackpots are just that, and nothing less than immediate absolute skepticism should meet these such claims.
But anyone who immediately attacks these people and blindly insists that whatever they claim to have is bullshit is much more foolish than these basement scientists.
If you put a little time into research of this "alternative energy" arena, you'll see that there appears to be many different variations of this basic concept being presented here. Before those Steorn guys from Ireland, you can trace claims of a over unity "magnet-enhanced-generator" back to the 80's. Now obviously most people would say "If there is indeed something odd happening, why hasn't it been researched and turned into a mainstream product".
Now I obviously don't believe in the conspiracy theories of the "evil" energy companies buying the IP and burying it, I just think that there could be a major discovery here, and these "crackpots" idea/technology hasn't gotten the attention or recognition of mainstream science. If legitimate scientists won't even look at it, how in the world would they get the investment needed to start manufacturing and selling a product?
This guy has spent the last 20 year pursuing this, and he really believes he has something amazing here. He's lost his marriage and even his kids, so I hope to god someone gives him the time of day to finally discover what it is he has, and determine once and for all if he has something amazing or is just another in a long line of failures...
Did you read my post at all? Did you not see how I systematically debunked every single one of his claims? Did you miss my 'scientific' reasons why it should not work? You critisize me for not just wholeheartedly believing something right off the bat, and yet you didin't even look as to WHY I don't believe.
Here. Let me break it down for you:
1. "Back EMF" is going to prevent the rotor from spinning, because the shaft of the rotor is going to be attracted to the bearings that the shaft spins on--introducing a LOT of friction to the equation.
2. The rotor is very much out of balance, which is going to introduce even more friction into the spinning motion.
3. The RPM sensor is very clearly not working properly. If it were actually rotating at 50RPM then it would be spinning at less than a full rotation per second (50RPM = .83 Revolutions Per Second) which it is clearly not doing in the video. This is because he doesn't actually know how to connect it properly, or to know when it has gone bad and is giving a false reading.
It is #3 that is actually the most disturbing of the reasons. If the man cannot properly install an RPM sensor--the most complicated of which is a wheel on the shaft, the most basic is a white stripe that a photodiode monitors--then how are we to believe anything else he has connected? Who knows if the voltmeter or ammeter is connected properly, if he cannot get a simple RPM sensor to function right!
Just to be clear: I am not a mechanical, electrical, or magnetic engineer/physiscist. AFAIK, he is not either. I have just as much authority to call this bunk as he guy has to say it's true. I have no proof that it works, he has no proof that I don't know what I am talking about. We are even.
I see no peer-reviewed papers. I see no high-quality footage. I see no prevision instruments of measurement--other than some cheap DMM's, an RPM sensor that he obviously doesn't know how to use properly, and some switches that look like they were taken from a bargain-bin at Radioshack. Not to mention that his graph is utter crap. A line that goes up, one that stays in the middle, and one that goes down? BRILLIANT! That explains it all. *rolls eyes*
I am willing to believe, but there has to be more to his 'proof' than "Look! It spins!" video. When you are taking on something as big as, oh I don't know--the entire established Newtonian Physics... You have to expect that everybody--Luddites and educated alike--are going to say, "That is impossible. Show me how it works." and you have PROOF to shut them up.
I am very sorry he lost his kids/wife. Is that somehow supposed to make me go, "Aww... Well, your science is faulty, but since you had a bad day I guess it is okay."
No. Wrong. Incorrect. Sucks for you, but prove that you have infinite and limitless energy and you will have more money and women than anybody else on the planet and will be remembered for all time. Forever.
Science is about eliminating variables and proving things are wrong just as much as it is getting all your paperwork in order. And not pulling some reasons out of the ether to support your theory, and publishing it on the internet. Otherwise I could go around selling water to people and saying it was a miracle cure for everything because it has 'electrolytes' in it. It's what the body craves.
Get out of his basement (he obviously has enough room now with his kids and wife gone) and buy a decent camera, some better testing equipment, and set it up so that every single detail of your invention is clearly shown and explained. Then I will will have nothing to argue about, and therefore I will be forced to believe.
Until then, it is just smoke and mirrors. Not that he's, but there is nothing here to make me think that what he has is the real deal.
There is no such thing as perpetual motion. It defies the laws of physics in this universe. Entropy wins. Period. Cold fusion won't change that; you'll just be pulling energy from the fusion. You may get electricity out. You may even get more out than you get in. But you'll still need to provide it with fuel, because you're taking energy out of the system. Now, it's always possible that we'll be able to steal energy from another universe with different physical laws. But that's no longer perpetual motion. If that does manage to happen, we'll have more to celebrate about than free energy... and that's saying something.
Someone needs to invent a perpetual motion device to harness the abillity of the patent office to run perpetual motion patents through faster then a SR71. We probably could become energy independent with that....
Babysit a 2 year old for an afternoon, and you'll have complete faith that the perpetual motion machine exits.....
I 100% agree!!
The universe itself is a perpetual motion machine...prove me wrong!
Ok, watch me solve half of the world's problems with one solution: put all of the stupid people into vast underground chambers with elliptical work-out machines that are set up to run little generators. When the people get hungry they will be fed the bodies of their less efficient co-workers. Soon after we will have a small enough population that nuclear and renewable energy sources will be able to supply us with all the energy we need, there will be no food shortages on earth, no overpopulation, and no more useless work-out machines that we keep promising ourselves we're going to start using any day now. In a few years we will have a population that is generally smarter because we killed or put to work all the dumb people, and the low population world-wide will allow us to maintain a high standard of living while demolishing less forests, sucking up less gasoline ( lets face it there is generally a high level of stupid people that are fat and visa versa, get rid of the stupid AND the fat people and then we have no real need for SUV's ), and producing less greenhouse gases.
And if you don't like the "put the stupid and the lazy to work" plan then just go to your nearest rifle shop, pick up anything with a caliber larger than .30 and all the ammo you can afford, and start clearing up the human garbage one round at a time.
In the meantime how about all the people who couldn't even understand most of what the man in the video was saying stop making fun of him and realize that it's because of guys like him that we have many of the modern marvels we have today. You think we'd have alarm clocks if there were no losers sitting in their basements dicking around with transistors half their lives? Sure, he could have gone out, lost about 30 pounds, fallen back in love with his wife, and enjoyed a regular life like the rest of us, but instead he decided to work on something that might actually change the future of mankind.
I think i may have said too much.
there are more of them than you
But the point is that they are dumber and therefore more susceptible to death. I win.
plus it would be silly to kill all of me, that wouldn't solve anything, clearly we must kill all of the stupid people.
there will always be more of them than you
hitler may have started with your thought process
His is the entrepreneurial spirit behind the creation of the machine you type your cheap words on.
I must add that you people are as predictable as those that mocked Tesla et al (AC current that is powering your computer) and other innovators throughout history. Maybe he has something - probably he doesn't. You're the truly boring ones.
Yeah, reality usually is boring: no mystical forces, no secret incantations that make the laws of physics fall apart, no magical beings that step in and change things without reason.
The purest form of perpetual motion is impossible due to the laws of themodynamics.
I don't that applies here though. This machine and the (secret machine being developed by some company in Europe i think) uses magnetism, which changes things. you can't have perpetual motion in a static system but in a system using magnetism there is a constant force. So it isn't actually perpetual motion in the thmodynamics sense of things but it is perpetual motion in the sense of 'it can run itself without needing external power'
At least someone in this thread was clever enough to point out why these machines don't work! Yes, magnetism is stored energy, so it's no different than using a battery. It's the same reason why most transportation solutions don't work. You can use electricity or hydrogen, but they were produced using a great amount of energy, and their transportation, the transportation of employees, and the manufacturing of their plants and equipment were only made possible by using gasoline.
I'm sure that scientists at large companies with greater education and resources would find a solution before a guy in his basement will. I have a friend who claims to have a similar machine, he's even convinced himself that he can get the patents for it and that it works because his grandfather gave him a drawing of it's concept. He smoked a lot of crystal meth when he was younger..
This does prove one thing: The average joe in his workshop still thinks he can disprove the petty laws of physics that are supported by an insurmountable mound of evidence. Obviously he found them too absurd to complete his college education...
Do you really believe everything they told you in college?
all these perpetual motion machines need to get blasted off into space - that's about the only area they're ever gonna work - then again how about we get some of that narrow beam electrical transfer going from orbiting satellites?
please don't tell me some military on this planet is already working on it.
why does every crappy machine have those crappy meters?
show a goddamn television being used on it instead.
RTOA please
Try only leaving one comment in which you've collected all of your thoughts together. It's sort of annoying.
@Kevin sorry - post throughout the day - multiple logins - site doesn't update fast enough - I read and reply - I don't take sabbaticals to the washroom before I post
If an atom is continuously vibrating isn't that perpetual motion? and since absolute zero has never been reached, at least by humans, those atoms have never, to our knowledge, stopped moving. Just put a drop of water in a petri dish and call it a perpetual motion machine.
feel free to critique, I'm no expert.
To obtain, something of equal value must be lost... this are the law of alchemy... AND REALITY!!!
..stop seeing full metal alchemist...is cracking your mind....
=)
It would me more convincing if they had a hot lady with huge (*)(*) saying all that crap.
Bah, the laws of physics suck.
Well the gravity one does at least.
Maybe people look at this wrong. Maybe it isn't taking energy from nothing, which is impossible, maybe it is using an untapped force. It doesnt take energy for everything in the universe to hold together, it takes gravity which is not at all energy but still causes movement. No scientist here and maybe I am wrong but its just an observation.