Psystar Open Computer notes, benchmarks and video

Okay, so we've been playing with the Psystar Open Computer for a few hours now, and we've formed some early impressions and put together a short video of it in action. We haven't really tried to stress the system yet, but based on our other experiences with OSx86 machines, we're expecting things to generally go smoothly. That said, there are some definite rough patches and issues, all mostly having to do with the fact that OS X isn't really built for this hardware. Here's what we know so far:

• It's running 10.5.2, build 9C31, which is behind the latest Apple build of 9C7010.
• The mobo is a Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L with an Intel G31 Express chipset. We're not sure which model of Core 2 Duo is in there as of yet.
• The graphics card appears to be an NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT, but it doesn't show up in ASP, so we have to confirm. Psystar's store says it's supposed to be a 256MB card, but we have 512MB -- strange.
  
• It's LOUD. Crazy loud. OS X doesn't seem to interface with the fan controller, so it runs at full tilt all the time. It doesn't really come across on the video, but it's loud enough so that it's hard to talk on the phone when the machine is running. There's no way we could deal with this thing on a daily basis.
  
• The DHCP lease drops every fifteen minutes or so and you have to manually renew it in prefs.
  
• Apple System Profiler doesn't know how to read the configurations of several systems, notably memory and audio. The Audio screen just says there's no built-in audio, while the Memory page returns an error.
• That said, audio works just fine, showing up in prefs as HD Audio Output, and obviously the memory works fine.
  
• We plugged in a couple cameras, an iPod, and an iPhone, everything worked as expected.
• There's no iMovie or iPhoto out of the box, since iLife doesn't come with Leopard -- you'll have to buy it separately.
  
• Time Machine seemed to recognize an external HD, but we didn't have time to fully test it out.
• The included copy of Leopard was out of the shrinkwrap, but there's no way to install it -- it shows up in Startup Disk but it won't restart, and it's not recognized at boot.
  
• Front Row works fine.
• You can grab the entire System Profiler file here, if you're so inclined -- just make sure and share with the group if you notice anything crazy, okay?
  

As far as benchmarks, it doesn't exactly blow Apple's gear away, but it definitely holds its own -- and the GeForce card just destroys the integrated graphics in the MacBook / Mac mini. Check it out:

• All machines tested with Xbench 1.3.
  
• All machines tested were using Leopard.
  
• You can check the bold Xbench scores to compare the cumulative results for each test.

	MBP (2.5GHz Penryn)	MacBook (2.2GHz Core 2 Duo)	iMac (2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, previous gen.)	iMac (3.06GHz Core 2 Duo)	Psystar Open Computer (2.2GHz Core 2 Duo)
CPU	169.23	126.66	138.58	188.54	138.89
GCD Loop	15.33 Mops/s	13.43 Mops/s	14.91 Mops/s	18.90 Mops/s	13.70 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic	3.37 Gflop/s	2.95 Gflop/s	3.23 Gflop/s	4.12 Gflop/s	2.98 Gflop/s
vecLib FFT	3.93 Gflop/s	3.36 Gflop/s	3.66 Gflop/s	4.65 Gflop/s	3.39 Gflop/s
Floating Point Library	36.64 Mops/s	17.80 Mops/s	19.43 Mops/s	44.76 Mops/s	24.08 Mops/s
Thread Test	275.13	186.4	208.77	314.45	195.42
Computation	6.93 Mops/s	3.58 Mops/s	3.56 Mops/s	8.50 Mops/s	3.73 Mops/s
Lock Contention	9.90 Mlocks/s	8.48 Mlocks/s	11.06 Mlocks/s	10.81 Mlocks/s	8.97 Mlocks/s
	MBP (2.5GHz Penryn)	MacBook (2.2GHz Core 2 Duo)	iMac (2.4GHz)	iMac (3.06GHz Core 2 Duo)	Psystar Open Computer (2.2GHz Core 2 Duo)
Memory Test	168.11	150.23	150.82	211.78	146.46
System	183.01	158.95	151.56	247.04	142.68
Allocate	922.99 Kalloc/s	856.78 Kalloc/s	657.80 Kalloc/s	374.06 Malloc/s	559.35 Kalloc/s
Fill	7424.09 MB/se	6480.99 MB/s	6606.88 MB/s	9667.21 MB/s	6585.52 MB/s
Copy	3522.10 MB/s	2914.92 MB/s	3014.12 MB/s	4651.03 MB/s	2918.53 MB/s
Stream	155.45	142.41	150.08	185.33	150.44
Copy	3059.86 MB/s	2799.64 MB/s	2926.68 MB/s	3653.38 MB/s	2853.57 MB/s
Scale	3008.89 MB/s	2797.66 MB/s	3022.24 MB/s	3652.08 MB/s	2888.89 MB/s
Add	3525.00 MB/s	3196.17 MB/s	3364.41 MB/s	4165.23 MB/s	3484.55 MB/s
Triad	3523.21 MB/s	3211.97 MB/s	3328.48 MB/s	4147.22 MB/s	3514.66 MB/s
	MBP (2.5GHz Penryn)	MacBook (2.2GHz Core 2 Duo)	iMac (2.4GHz)	iMac (3.06GHz Core 2 Duo)	Psystar Open Computer (2.2GHz Core 2 Duo)
Quartz Graphics Test	198.29	154.32	193.4	228.36	213.88
Line	12.43 Klines/s	9.69 Klines/s	11.64 Klines/s	15.27 Klines/s	11.00 Klines/s
Rectangle	70.01 Krects/s	51.66 Krects/s	70.02 Krects/s	252.7 Krects/s	67.11 Krects/s
Circle	15.29 Kcircles/s	11.54 Kcircles/s	15.29 Kcircles/s	16.46 Kcircles/s	14.73 Kcircles/s
Bezier	4.92 Kbeziers/s	3.79 Kbeziers/s	4.51 Kbeziers/s	5.64 Kbeziers/s	4.32 Kbeziers/s
Text	12.17 Kchars/s	10.39 Kchars/s	12.66 Kchars/s	15.06 Kchars/s	41.75 Kchars/s
OpenGL Graphics Test	165.99	23.36	152.66	201.68	143.78
Spinning Squares	210.57 frames/s	29.64 frames/s	193.65 frames/s	255.84 frames/s	182.39 frames/s
User Interface Test	326.63	244.28	335.18	443.26	324.71
Elements	1.50 Krefresh/s	1.12 Krefresh/s	1.54 Krefresh/s	2.03 Krefresh/s	1.49 Krefresh/s
	MBP (2.5GHz Penryn)	MacBook (2.2GHz Core 2 Duo)	iMac (2.4GHz)	iMac (3.06GHz Core 2 Duo)	Psystar Open Computer (2.2GHz Core 2 Duo)
Disk Test	33.08	39.64	80.72	78.47	70.94
Sequential	60.60	66.07	115.15	106.39	137.51
Uncached Write	52.17 MB/s [4K blocks]	53.34 MB/s [4K blocks]	72.17 MB/s [4K blocks]	84.32 MB/sec [4K blocks]	92.61 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write	47.88 MB/s [256K blocks]	47.63 MB/s [256K blocks]	66.51 MB/s [256K blocks]	77.36 MB/sec [256K blocks]	82.91 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read	9.89 MB/s [4K blocks]	10.83 MB/s [4K blocks]	27.81 MB/s [4K blocks]	17.43 MB/sec [4K blocks]	29.79 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read	39.17 MB/s [256K blocks]	49.62 MB/s [256K blocks]	69.83 MB/s [256K blocks]	80.85 MB/sec [256K blocks]	86.51 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random	22.75	28.31	62.13	62.16	47.80
Uncached Write	0.81 MB/s [4K blocks]	1.03 MB/s [4K blocks]	2.67 MB/s [4K blocks]	2.51 MB/sec [4K blocks]	1.87 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write	18.56 MB/s [256K blocks]	22.73 MB/s [256K blocks]	48.45 MB/s [256K blocks]	62.96 MB/sec [256K blocks]	34.00 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read	0.41 MB/s [4K blocks]	0.48 MB/s [4K blocks]	0.63 MB/s [4K blocks]	0.66 MB/sec [4K blocks]	0.64 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read	18.44 MB/s [256K blocks]	19.31 MB/s [256K blocks]	27.08 MB/s [256K blocks]	28.77 MB/sec [256K blocks]	28.12 MB/sec [256K blocks]

[Dylan @ Apr 30th 2008 5:00PM]

Ahh! auto play video!!!

[mac404 @ Apr 30th 2008 5:03PM]

Loud autoplay video.....

[Brendan Sheehan @ Apr 30th 2008 7:06PM]

Excuse my ignorance but what does Dylan mean by his comment? (no video auto-played for me)

Oh and I'd love to say this is great, but I'd recommend simply buying an iMac instead if you want to ensure a hassle-free experience with guaranteed support, guaranteed integration and built-in audio etc.

Sometimes the lazier, more expensive option is actually a better one. Certainly is in this case in my opinion. And if you can't afford the iMac, save.

[Neoprimal @ Apr 30th 2008 8:39PM]

Can't the fan be adjusted in the bios? Seems like the CPU is running warm or at least above the 'low' threshold, so just adjust the threshold to be higher. Should have been done from the makers but oh well...

[Ruben @ Apr 30th 2008 9:36PM]

@Neoprimal:

Your right. The OS has nothing to do with fan speed control (in the BIOS based systems at least), nor should they, because the BIOS is perfectly capable of monitoring temps and controlling fan speeds.

Its obvious that Psystar didnt do any modifications to the system, literally dropped in all the parts like any of your corner stores, and loaded a disk image onto your hard drive. That noise could be solved by enabling a simple QFan setting on the MB.

or...

They could have cut sound output by 80% just by using a Scythe Ninja, along with some low rpm fans, which would have added about 50 bucks to the cost of this system.

In which case, screw Psystar. You would end up with a much better system for the same amount of money if you build it yourself, and possibly get it quieter than an iMac.

[RoboDan @ May 1st 2008 2:33AM]

... or just
BUY A QUIET FAN
go ahead, splurge that extra $5-10

I suggest Vantec or Arctic Silver 12cm fans. A+, low noise. If you're going more "high end" spring for a fan with adjustable settings (ala the Antec Sonata II/III case)

Low noise.

[CUBSWILLWIN @ Apr 30th 2008 5:04PM]

NOW I WANT ONE!!! I thought this psystar ppl weren't legit but now this is really sweet. it should be lower prices tho

[Khris @ Apr 30th 2008 5:07PM]

Download one of the several OSX86 builds and put it on an existing machine!

I just installed it on my Dell m1330 and I'm pretty sure it's going to stay on there.

[CUBSWILLWIN @ Apr 30th 2008 5:15PM]

I've done it, but if I want more than one it's a lot of work.

[bald_gye @ Apr 30th 2008 5:30PM]

Khris i have the same dell laptop, and am having OSx86 install issues...what drivers did you install to get it to run??

[bob @ Apr 30th 2008 5:55PM]

its noisy and doesnt work properly, yet you still want it? spend the extra and get a real one

[Blaktornado @ Apr 30th 2008 6:00PM]

They could still NOT be legit.

Only two reports of OpenMacs being recieved so far (as far as we know)... They could easily be one offs.

With the first report, that could easily be faked by the Psystar people.

With this one, it could be one they've made specially for Engadget so that people think "hey, this seems pretty good and legit. Now I'll buy one" and the Psystar people get more money before doing a runner with everyone's cash.

Unless you work for Engadget or another company that won't lose out too much if you get scammed, I wouldn't buy one... This whole thing is fishy.

[Ryan @ Apr 30th 2008 7:32PM]

bald_gye, i also have the same hardware. give leo4allv2 a go. select vanilla kernel for install, and then if you have boot problems, give it a -f command at start up.. :)

[CUBSWILLWIN @ Apr 30th 2008 10:18PM]

I kinda just realized that what I said was really stupid :)

[austin @ Apr 30th 2008 5:05PM]

just spend the little extra money and get a mac mini.

this thing just isnt worth it.

[CUBSWILLWIN @ Apr 30th 2008 5:28PM]

these have much better specs than a mac mini though.

[austin @ Apr 30th 2008 5:30PM]

but you cant update it. thats a problem.

and refreshing the DHCP every 15 minutes doesnt sound like much fun.

and having that fan blowing out my ears doesnt sound fun either.

[dreamscape86 @ Apr 30th 2008 6:33PM]

Maybe you can't upDATE it (although I'm sure you can with help online), but at least you can upGRADE it. 8-|

[newgalactic @ Apr 30th 2008 9:19PM]

A legit Mac has it's benefits. But I personally am very hungry for an OSx86 type machine. Bang for the Buck, personal involvement with the build, ability to reconfigure hardware, personal gratification; these are some of what I'm hoping to achieve with my own personally built OSX/non-Apple machine. Is the Mac Mini even a worthy comparison? It's more like an internet/media appliance. I might consider it for some sort of Media PC in the living room (no fans/small size), but never for a serious computer. My opinion, I wonder who Psystar's intended customer base is? Anyone who is interested in what I described above will probably just build their own box. Anyone who would be satisfied with a Mac Mini ...will probably just get a Mini.

...Apple may disway me from my OSx86 desires if they decide to sell a mid-level tower. And the ability to perform basic upgrades myself would also be nice. But who am I to ask SJ to release some of his control, just a simple minded replaceable customer. I mean nothing to him.

[Eh @ Apr 30th 2008 10:21PM]

Just spend about the same and get a faster PC with a video card that has an adjustable fan. A lot of cheap budget video cards like the 8600 dont have fans that throttle down, its probably not OS X's fault in this case, I have a 7600gt that was on 100% speed all the time in Windows or OSX, I had to unplug the damn fan and put a case fan ontop of the video card because it was so insanely loud (its an EVGA 7600gt, gotta give them props for such a horrible product).

OSx86 is fantastic if you have the right hardware. People who have no idea what they are talking about like to put it down but the reality is that it has very little problems and is every bit as capable and stable as OS X on a real mac.

[petrocelly @ May 2nd 2008 8:26PM]

I'm hardcore x86 user and hardcore self system builder. Tried some of the osX86 on my own hardware, but from my point to compare it to real mac is that you wont be able to build a quality comparable system for the less money as to buy a mac. Mac has a simple and tested theory , they sell HW that they know, so they don't have any issues with drivers and other things that windows users suffer from. If Microsoft would build and sell HW like Apple is then windows is pretty stable OS with no flaws. Apple just by doing this makes it very easy for the end user, thats why ppl who tried and worked with apple love it. If you consider to buy a high quality components for x86 system and you go wild with your budget you can use any OS that will run just like a dream with no problems at all, thats all because of the quality drivers the quality HS comes with.

[namtastic @ Jun 5th 2008 6:21PM]

@dreamscape86, That's a *pretty* big assumption since you can't even update the software. Is that upgraded hardware going to be compatible? We'll let you find out (the hard way)...

[Conor Maher @ Apr 30th 2008 5:09PM]

Why not just put OSX on a real PC if you want OSX? Instead of this cheap pos

[Ryan Trevisol @ Apr 30th 2008 5:38PM]

Thank you. I can't believe how long it takes that piece of crap to POST. That's what, like 10 seconds before it shows the ram test screen? Any decent modern computer should have an image on the screen in less than three seconds. My two-year-old Dell is almost instantaneous.

Also, what's with software update supposedly not working? Only new release (i.e. 10.5.2. to 10.5.3 ) updates break my hackintosh. Everything else including Security Updates works just fine.

That, combined with the fan noise is unacceptable. These things should've been weeded out in the first prototypes. Most of it, I suspect, would be solved by using a different motherboard.

[frankXchange @ Apr 30th 2008 8:04PM]

Agreed. I had a hackintosh running on my custom-built computer for a while and it worked fine - posted a lot faster than the Psystar. The only hitch was that I couldn't get the full power of my Quadro display card (GeForce seems the way the go). All to say, if you do a bit of research you do much better than the Psystar.

[Will N. @ May 1st 2008 1:35PM]

It looks as though the monitor (looks like a small HD TV actually) took time to sense the input the computer was using and switch to it. I have an MSI mobo, and the screen that shows up first on the video is the same screen that shows up AFTER the post screen with the mem, CPU and drives on my computer. I don't think the computer was taking terribly long, just the monitor taking awhile to sense input and display an image.

[booticon @ Apr 30th 2008 5:09PM]

"The DHCP lease drops every fifteen minutes or so and you have to manually renew it in prefs."

That alone seems like a dealbreaker to me.

[shawnmos @ Apr 30th 2008 5:46PM]

I guess if you have your computer hooked directly up to your cable modem. But if you use a router there is no real reason to use DHCP anyway.

[leonowski @ Apr 30th 2008 8:37PM]

I had the same problem with my own personal Hackintosh build. I eventually fixed the problem by updating the kext for the SATA controller on my motherboard (an Abit IP-35E using ICH9 controller).

Check out this link to obtain the updated kext:

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=88335

You may also want to try some of the solutions found in this thread

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=73347&pid=654954&st=120&#entry654954

Fortunately, a lot of problems have been discussed and even resolved at insanelymac.com. Since there is no support from Apple, you will have to rely on community support. Fortunately, there is tons of support out there from a large community.

[Geoffrey Sperl @ Apr 30th 2008 10:28PM]

@shawnmos: One could also say that if you use a router there's no reason to use static addresses, anyway.

[zpjet @ May 1st 2008 2:03AM]

um, solving Ethernet issues by updating SATA drivers... that sounds so Windows.

nothing against hackintosh, but on an out of the box machine...

[starkruzr @ May 1st 2008 3:23PM]

I don't get this at all. Has anyone else ever had this problem with a Hackintosh install ever? Mine certainly doesn't do this.

[catachip @ Apr 30th 2008 5:10PM]

And the first time you update iTunes or try to install 10.5.x you're going to crash the whole thing. This is such a Mickey Mouse setup it's pathetic. Why wouldn't you just do this yourself at home - they don't seem to have done anything new other than installing OS X before hand. The instructions and guides have been online for a long time.

The plethora or problems you're going to run into with this very hacked setup makes it really impractical.

[Daniel Steinberg @ Apr 30th 2008 5:22PM]

Haha - mickey mouse.

[CraigJ @ Apr 30th 2008 6:10PM]

Mickey is offended...

[bakk @ May 1st 2008 5:51AM]

Yeah I mean if Pystar appeared even half competent at what they do, i wouldnt hate them so much. But I guess thats what you get from people who are clearly just scammers and Im starting to hate engadget and gizmodo for even giving them a second of free press

[Elijah @ Apr 30th 2008 5:12PM]

A normal Hackintosh pc can be better then this. I feel disappointed.

[Seth @ Apr 30th 2008 5:15PM]

Now, when your hair is wet, you can just plop your OpenComputer over, turn it on, and you'll be blown away with how great the quality of the fan is!

[catachip @ Apr 30th 2008 5:16PM]

My prediction: Apple does nothing with their legal team to stop this. Instead, they push out OS X software and firmware updates that render this whole setup impossible.

If I was one of the people who were working on the OSx86 project I would be very upset. This Psystar company just effectively closed the door on the whole "Hackintosh" community. I am sure that before Apple was find with some hobbyists messing around.

But now a company is making money off of it, diluting their brand and reputation. People will equate poor performing "Open Computers" with a fault of the OS manufacturer. Just as people equate poor mainstream PC performance with Windows.

[IT-Accountant @ Apr 30th 2008 5:20PM]

As a member of the OSX86 community, I sincerely hope you are wrong.

That being said, I think your analysis of the situation is fairly accurate.

[catachip @ Apr 30th 2008 5:25PM]

Also, to avert the comments beforehand, let me clarify. Because the OS is the interface of the computer, when there are problems or inconsistencies or errors (i.e. the DHCP error he mentioned in the article, or otherwise) people will equate it with the OS, not with the hardware. They'll identify Microsoft with problems on their Windows PCs and Apple with problems on their "Open Computers" running this hacked OS.

[MeatyPi @ Apr 30th 2008 7:12PM]

I keep hearing people say that since Psystar did this, it was inevitable for Apple to release a firmware to brick the whole thing, but I think people forget that the OSX86 project has been around since the first intel macs, and Apple must have always known, I mean its pretty common knowledge in the tech community, so why would they all of a sudden brick all of them if the never did before?

[Brad @ Apr 30th 2008 8:03PM]

You brick it for two reasons. First, OSX86 is a project that people do for kicks, it is not a commercial venture. Your company's entire business model isn't on the line because a couple (even a lot) of hackers mess with their system in their basement.

Second, Apple nearly went out of business (were it not for a GIANT "loan" from Microsoft) because they allowed people to release Mac Clones. They generally had cheaper hardware and a lower quality user experience. This translated to fewer people (the cost-conscious) purchasing Apple from Apple, and others (first-timers) not wanting to try Apple because of all the issues they had.

Apple worked hard to re-define itself as a premium computing experience - not as a simple OS vendor. They make their hardware and software unique to accomplish this goal. Letting another company profit from this with no control over their quality or user experience, and making only the retail price on OSX for each machine sold is corporate suicide. Apple isn't having problems meeting consumer demand, why would they willingly let a company destroy the image they spent billions generating over the last decade through ads, products, the press?

No benefit, extremely high cost. That's why Apple will kill this company in one way or another.

[Nick M. @ Apr 30th 2008 8:36PM]

@ MeatyPi

"This Psystar company just effectively closed the door on the whole "Hackintosh" community. I am sure that before Apple was fine with some hobbyists messing around.

But now a company is making money off of it, diluting their brand and reputation. People will equate poor performing "Open Computers" with a fault of the OS manufacturer."

I find the second part to be a pretty strong reason why Apple might now start to re-evaluate their position on the hackintosh movement.

[clak @ Apr 30th 2008 8:40PM]

@Brad

I was with you until you regurgitated that big myth that Microsoft "saved" Apple. That is NOT true. At the time that Microsoft agreed to make a $150 million dollar investment (which was sold five years later) in Apple stock, Apple had $1.2 billion dollars in cash, but Steve Jobs needed Microsoft to restart efforts to complete a new version of Office for Mac, which had languished for three years. In turn, Bill Gates wanted Apple to use Internet Explorer as their default browser and to settle several billion dollar patent disputes involving Windows and Quicktime.

Look and Feel Lawsuit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer%2C_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corp.

"In 1997, five years after the lawsuit was decided, all lingering infringement questions against Microsoft regarding the Lisa and Macintosh GUI, as well as Apple's "QuickTime piracy" lawsuit against Microsoft, were settled when Apple agreed to make Internet Explorer the default browser over Netscape, and Microsoft agreed to continue developing Office and other software for the Mac for the next 5 years, and purchased $150 million of non-voting Apple stock."

Canyon Code Theft Lawsuit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Canyon_Company

"Later testimony in the U.S. D.O.J. Microsoft anti-turst trial revealed that, at the time, Apple was threatening Microsoft with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit over the allegedly stolen code, and in return Bill Gates was threatening with the cancellation of Office for the Mac. In August 1997, Apple and Microsoft announced a settlement deal. Apple would drop all current lawsuits, including all lingering issues from the "Look & Feel" lawsuit and the "QuickTime source code" lawsuit, and agree to make Internet Explorer the default browser on the Macintosh unless the user explicitly chose the bundled Netscape browser. In return, Microsoft agreed to continue developing Office, Internet Explorer, and various developer tools and software for the Mac for the next 5 years, and purchase $150 million of non-voting Apple stock. The companies also agreed to mutual collaboration on Java technologies, and to cross-license all existing patents, and patents obtained during the five-year deal, with one another."

Also see: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CGN/is_1999_Jan_26/ai_53999515

The other big myth about Apple is that Apple "stole" the GUI from Xerox, when in fact they licensed it, but that's for another discussion. I blame the film "Pirates of Silicon Valley" for the popularity of most of these distortions.

[Eh @ Apr 30th 2008 10:30PM]

Apple's attempt to stop OSx86 will be just as effective as Microsoft's attempt to stop piracy.

[Chris Tutor @ Apr 30th 2008 5:18PM]

If you're looking at it from a lower cost option, consider the Pystar machine does NOT come with iLife. That's another, what, $80?

Then factor in the ever-running fan and DHCP issues and God knows what other problems will pop up with continued use.

Get yourself a used G5 iMac for less than $700 and be happy.

http://www.powermax.com/parts/show/c-u63765

Oh, and now Pystar's Web page won't load again. That's great customer service/support! I guess you get what you pay for.

[catachip @ Apr 30th 2008 5:28PM]

Agreed this Psystar computer loses it's price advantage with every day. For one thing, people keep talking about upgrades... okay... what upgrades are you going to give to this Psystar machine? OS X is compatible with only the hardware components that come on existing Macs. It's not like you can throw in some random qual SLI setup in there or a random audio card - it wont work. You can upgrade the memory, but not the hard drive - because they'd have to reinstall the OS.

This myth about upgrading Macs is just that. You can add anything you want either with FW 400 or 800 or expresscard, or swap out memory or hard drives yourself. The video card is the only thing, and who is using Macs for hardcore gaming anyway?

[Chris Turpin @ Apr 30th 2008 5:39PM]

Actually, you could install a new HDD, you would just have to use SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner, clone the patched OS X install over to the replacement drive, and then start up off the new drive.

Yes, you'd have to have both drives installed and working, but it's a lot better than having to send it off to Psystar.

[vdogg89 @ Apr 30th 2008 5:41PM]

haha, pretty sure anyone who buys this computer is smart enough to download a version of iLife 08 from bittorent