A double shot of bad news for the Wii hacking set today -- not only do new Wiis appear to have a modchip-proof layer of epoxy around the DVD-ROM IC chips, Waninkoko has abandoned the Wii Backup-Loader project. The modchip news isn't all that surprising -- Ninty's been
fighting a
losing battle against chip devs for a while now, and gluing things down with epoxy is a logical solution -- but Waninkoko quitting is a bit of a shock, since we just caught wind of the
Wii Backup-Loader a few days ago. Apparently he's not happy that it was
leaked this morning, so he's dropping it, but surely an outpouring of affection in comments will change his mind.
[Thanks, Linh T]
Read - New Wiis have epoxy-locked DVD-ROM chips
Read - Waninkoko abandons Wii Backup-Loader
posted Sep 19th 2008 12:04PM
Aww shucks. Then again, it doesnt really matter seeing how I NEVER used my Wii in the first place. Wii sucks. I regret buying it, and I cant wait for X-Mas 08 so I can sell that shit on Ebay
same gonna see if i convice my bro its worth swapping for his ps3 lol
I voted you up even though youll probably summed to Lowest Rank...I bought mine in April...played the hell out of wii sports and then....its done nothing but sit there... I just dont no if this is a great thing that it appears on the front to be...
its a novelty, people buy it in droves becasue it is fun for a little bit...but look at the attachment rant for the Wii
i was in the same boat as you guys... then i got Mario Kart.... man that game is a blast... especially online. saved my wii from ebay really.
hmm perhaps i can get more than $250 for my modded d2b paperweight on ebay now
I think the common misconception is that the Wii is supposed to be anything but a party console. The single player stuff is ok, but really its not the graphics or the games that makes the Wii... its the interaction with others playing and the unique interface. If you bought the Wii as an alternative to an Xbox 360 or a *shudder* PS3, then I think you should have done more research into the Wii's target demographic.
"but look at the attachment rant for the Wii"
The attach rate that's higher than the PS3 and increasing faster than either the PS3 or 360? The Wii sold more software in its first 19 months than any console in history. It's a myth that the Wii doesn't sell software.
Yes, we know the Wii is not a big hit with hardcore gamers. That doesn't mean it sucks, it's just got a different target market.
I seem to have to say this in every Wii-related thread on here, just to balance out the anti-Wii vitriol, but...
I use my Wii every day. Whether I'm using Wii Fit (which I use, without fail, every weekday morning before work) or playing games, I'm still using it whenever I get a chance. I can't be the only person who actually enjoys their Wii AND plays it frequently.
I never thought I'd see the day where I heard a person who bought a Wii say that it sucks.
Wii is great for casual gamers and party gaming. But that's certainly not all it's good for.
One, there's more to a game's visual effect than graphics. I can play N64 games like Ocarina of Time and still feel the visual effect even with rudimentary graphics. In the same way, even though Wii's graphics are nothing compared to 360 and PS3, you've got beautiful games like Twilight Princess. Obviously, 360 and PS3 have this too, but I'm just saying that Wii's lesser graphics are not crippling.
Two, Nintendo has a great legacy of games. Nostalgia is a big deal for people who grew up on NES. And the Wii pays tribute to its older games very well, something Xbox (which is too new) and Playstation (which doesn't really have any exclusive flagship characters) can't do.
Three, the motion sensing is, IMO, simply a good way to make a controller. Even if it's not virtual reality per se, shaking the wiimote is actually more natural than pushing a button sometimes.
I may sound like a little kid pushing these games, but sometimes beating someone up with Kirby in Brawl can be just as enjoyable as getting a headshot in COD. Video games are made for fun, which Nintendo specializes in. Granted, most "hardcore gamers", as the term is used would not enjoy a system like Wii. But that doesn't mean it's all married couples and little kids who like Wii.
I love all these guys that say the Wii sucks and how they never use it, yet they still have them and haven't sold them. Do you normally keep stuff that sucks and you don't use sitting around your house? He's an amazing idea, if you don't like it and don't use it. SELL IT. Plenty of people out there are clamouring to find them. You can probably make a killing selling it. I have my Wii and 13 games and play it quite regularily, as does my girlfriend, my brother, some of my co-workers and many of my friends. As for the comments about attach rates, obviously some people don't read the monthly sales figures released by NPD every month because they clearly state, for the US at least, the Wii has a higher attach rate then the PS3.
Dude, everyone has tons of stuff laying around that we don't use and don't have time to sell.
I play with my wii whenever my wife's' parents come over, or her cousins, and guess what? That is the target market, spoiled kids and old people. Its not a next generation console, its a gamecube with next generation input devices. It like the Nintendo 3.5. Don't get me wrong sometime I gotta play tennis.
Does this mean you can't send in a defective Wii to Nintendo for repairs?
Yup, that's exactly what this means. Nintendo won't warranty a Wii anymore because they voided the warranty by blocking modding attempts. Clearly.
Hey, I just don't see them making repairs on that particular chip anytime soon. Nintendo will have to suck up the costs of replacing the entire board.
It is far more likely that they have a solvent specific to that epoxy if they ever have to replace chips on the board. Then again, it may just be cost effective for them to recycle the board and replace it rather than replacing single one-off chips on the board (I'd say this is very likely).
lol like most devs he seams to have the cry baby mentalitly "someone else released it first wah!!!". maybe his own fault for testing it with someone not trust worthy... tbh prolly good that its been abandoned otherwise every wii/ds homebrew site i go to would be flooded with iso requests :(
Yah, I hate people like that. Really immature, makes me want to beat some sense into him :P
Stop being a ***** and finish your ******* code.
They do this cause they want attention and to feel powerful. They stop coding and people beg them to keep working on it and then they tell them how much they love them and how kewl they are, well I don't do that, you're just being a *****.
SUCK IT UP AND GET TO WORK!
Jake: "Really immature" ... "SUCK IT UP AND GET TO WORK!"
yes, because maturity is acting like Waninkoko owes you something. because maturity is being cool and using *'s to replace curse words name calling. and because maturity is judging his/her motives for abandoning this project. i wonder what you'd do if your work was unfairly released from some sleazeball you trusted and had to deal with the consequences.
Dear Waninkoko,
We had a great time last week...playing with your Wii...
Please come back to us...
We didn't mean to mess around with that hacked PS3...we were a little drunk...it just happened...we played games we shouldn't have played...installed Vista when there was no need or purpose...
We are sorry.
We will try harder. We will scrape that epoxy off those chips with tiny dentist instruments if we have to...you know, the ones with tiny sharp hooks...you are worth it...
C'mon!!!
Love,
Everybody
--
Damn... no Wii Backup Loader? I wonder if we could obtain source code or reverse engineer the software?
Are you reading? IT'S BEEN LEAKED. This means you simply go to the scene sights and find a copy for download.
Waninkoko is simply pissed that one of his beta testers (Beta, as in final test stage) has released imperfect code, which he probably wanted to perfect before releasing. This I understand, and for all the turd sandwiches out there (Not you Matthew, you seem grateful for a chance at this code) calling him a baby or saying he took too long...get real. Code your own work and tell he how it goes.
@Anarkie
Whether a person can code or not is pretty much irrelevant to the fact he is in fact acting like a spoiled brat over a leak. What's the point of just quitting because it was leaked early? What did he lose? And isn't a bit hypocritical to be crying over a leaked piece of software that itself was destined to be used to pirate retail software by the vast majority of its users?
Props to Waninkoko for stopping work on the loader, although I get the feeling somebody's going to continue it.
Better living through epoxy.
"Modchip-Proof" is probably a bit strong. "Dremel Requiring" might be a better descriptor. Hell, the little parts are already so tiny that you're better off taking your wii to a "professional" than trying to install anything yourself, and I'll be that the good professionals will soon be able to work around the epoxy situation.
The main this will do is not stop it entirely, but make it more difficult. As I understand it, there was a clip-on modchip released, that all you had to do was open up the Wii and push it onto that chip, so now that's impossible.
Yeah, thar be nay way t' avast th' modders - but make th' only way t' mod a Wii very expensive be one way Nintendo can keep modded Wiis ou' o' th' general public.
Ya scurvy dog!
Our you could just look for an older Wii to mod, like mine ;-). Good job Nintendo, thanks for raising the resale value of my, now much easier to mod then new, Wii.
Dont back out dude. Your name is still associated with the hack. Keep to it and keep supporting it.
"I just wanna say good luck, we're all counting on you."
I don't have a Wii, so I don't really know what this is all about, but assuming that modding a Wii involves that chip, can't you just remove the epoxy? I mean, you should be able to heat or soften it with chemicals and then just peel it off.
Epoxy will not soften when heated, it is not a "plastic" material, it is a thermoset.
Then there's more than one kind of "epoxy" as the stuff I've worked with will soften when a heat gun is used or when acetone (or oven cleaner) is brushed on top.
Maybe if the hackers/modders put all that effort into developing an open-source console platform we would have something really nice.
have they tried the heat gun technique used in the xbox 360 technique, where they heated the epoxy and it peeled off with a pen knife, or did i miss something and this is a totally different epoxy.
just a suggestion..
Even if they created the greatest, most advanced, cutting edge open source console they would find it near impossible to get an ISV to develop on it. Programs like word processors and spreadsheets once they reach a certain maturity can be used repeatedly to do the tasks they were created to do but except for a few notable exceptions game software gets "stale". Game houses usually can't charge for support of their product due to the backlash it would cause whereas other types of software routinely charge for support contracts. Without some form of DRM most game houses would just say no.
open source console, like, say a computer?
Actually, for what the modders are attempting to do for homebrew and "backup" discs, an open source console would be nothing but homebrew and the "backup" disc play would fall under the emulation category. So again, if they would only direct all that energy...
Can anything good possibly come of a Backup Loader anyway? I mean, if you're modding in order to play homebrew, that's one thing. If you're just blatantly stealing games, then that isn't really an endevor worth supporting in the first place.
Unless I am misunderstanding the point of the Backup Loader. Is there anything legitimate that can be done with it?
playing backups is legitimate if you bought the original and made a backup to play instead of the original. someone would do this if they have kids who play a lot of wii and throw the discs around - so it's really simply protecting your investment. of course nintendo would rather you buy a new copy if your kids scratch up the old one but that's crazy talk.
why would i need a modchip if i steal games?
Thank you, precisely the point. It is one thing to report a hacking attempt being leaked or abandon. Suggesting some warmth in the comments will bring that project back is clearly not on! Say what you will, that so called backup loader is clearly for illegal copies/downloads.
The irony is, the guy was not happy _probably_ (my own speculation) because he was going to get a buyer for his work and now it was leaked! He was gonna be paid for his software that lets people to steal other's software!
[I'm paid at work because decent people PAY for the software I wrote]
@humps
well, being 'clearly for illegal copies/downloads' doesn't mean there aren't legitimate uses. Smoking, for example, is clearly bad for you yet there are a few arguable benefits that keep it from being illegal or banned.
and how is it clearly for downloads? how you get the backup is moot.
This seems a bit unprecedented... pouring epoxy all over your drive board can't be good for cooling/other stuff. Has anyone seen this kind of broad stroke attempt to stop piracy anywhere else?
Yup, the newer Xbox 360 consoles have the same thing.
Epoxy was added to General Instruments (Motorola) videocipher decoders in an attempt to stop satellite TV piracy. Their epoxy attempt didn't stop piracy, It only slowed it down very slightly.
I just feel bad for the guy that worked hard on this just to be leaked by a team member before the final testing was complete. Same thing happened in the PSP community when Pandora's battery was made...
does no one else realize that almost all circuit cards have a conformal coating to protect them. I am an electronics technician, and there are about 4 methods to remove epoxy without damaging the circuit card it is attached to. Te best way that i have been tought to remove it is If you heat the epoxy with a PACE heat wand it will overcure the epoxy then you can just scrape it off with a toothpick. The epoxy is gummy when it is still hot from the overcuring process and flaky when cooled. Just look up the procedures for 2M repair it will expain everything you ever wanted to know about circuit cards and soldering.
ROFL, blah blah, the usual homebrew drama from the hackers. Honestly, are they *all* hormonal 12-year-olds, or do they just like to act like it?
actually I think he's being very smart by distancing himself from the project before too much attention is paid to it - ninty isn't going to be happy about it and might try to pursue the creators.
Except that Nintendo was already well aware this project was being worked on. Otherwise he wouldn't have bothered with the grandiose announcement and screenshots.
No, this is the usual homebrew temper tantrum. Someone gave away a beta, and so now he's taking his ball and going home.
And for the record, a) I'm a homebrew developer myself, and b) I strongly discourage piracy. I'm just reacting to yet another instance of a whiny homebrew primadonna.
i might agree with you except this latest development was a breakthrough which effectively 'ups the ante' on the damage it can do to software sales.
damn pirates. I really love the wii and so do a lot of my friends. I really hope someone will carry on for the legitimate users. Just another case of some d-bag ruining it for everyone else.
Here, Here! In light of the epoxy copy-protection, soft-mods will become even more desirable.
We need you Waninkoko!
Waninkoko, there actually are people who would appreciate your fair use tool, like kids in countries that cant afford to keep re-buying Nintendo games they already purchased.
The tone of this article seems to indicate that you WANT him to complete the backup loader.
Who wouldn't want ?
This kind of thing is not new. They used to use epoxy way back in the 1980's to try to stop modifications of satellite receivers (the old analog Big Ugly Dish kind) and the old analog cable boxes that could be modified to get free HBO etc. Of course it didn't work. Instructions for removing the epoxy circulated and even special tools to chip it away without damaging the components.
I have no doubt it will happen again and this will turn out to be useless.
Waninkoko is abandoning the project? Well, there are plenty of homebrewers out there that are willing to pick it up, so I see no loss here.
We have a mod chip in our Gamecube so we can play backup copies of our games (yes, all purchased, and yes, "we" includes 5 and 7 year old boys, previously younger and we have had casualty discs - unfortunately before we had a mod chip/backups!), so we can play Japanese games (the awesome Kururin Squash, mostly) and for homebrew, though mostly for the first two things. When we get a Wii (this xmas), I would like to have a mod chip or some solution that can do the same things, for the same reasons. However, if it's a mod chip I'll wait until we're out of warranty.
You all DO realize there is more than 1 modchip out there, right? I mean, god forbid you need to do some soldering to do something Nintendo doesn't want you to do.
what a loser;
here Waninkoko, let me stroke your massive ego while people still give a damn.
14:59, 14:58, 14:57...
Why does a group of wii owners not get together and SUE Nintendo for "sabotaging" there property. When you buy something its your PROPERTY to do with as you please. It should be illegal for Nintendo or anyone else to interfere with what you do to your property.
Wow, that's a really dumb idea.
"Come on guys, let's just sue them!"
Waninkoko is a whiny bitch who has been swallowed whole by his greed for power. To think he has the nerve to "punish" the Wii community by dropping his silly project. Good riddens I say, someone more talented can pick up his shortcomings.
Well, it's a pity that Waninkoko has stopped, but Engadget helped that to happen. Thanks for helping to distribute his works. You might as well ask Nintendo for a bounty.
Heart felt affection to continue allowing for pirated copies of games to circulate among the cheap, and selfish players? This is no doubt a simple execution of concept for the hacker in question but no matter his intentions, the vast majority of the people who use mod chips and this mod less type of coding aren't trying to use them for 'back ups' because their kids will damage the real game, they want games they don't have to pay for. Too cheap to support an industry that they rape and abuse by downloading and using ripped games. The excuse that games are too expensive simply does not work. Games are a want, not a need. if you can't afford or don't want to support the companies that make the games, then you don't have the right to download them. I've seen far too many friends work their fingers to the bone coding and drawing for these games to disrespect them by downloading ill gotten software. Grow up and support these companies by buying their products.
What do you mean, does not work? Of course they're too expensive in the States. Case in point- I've had people ask me to bring back PSP and various console games for them when I visit China because where I live they cost half as much as they do in the US. Not fakes, mind you (seriously, who pirates UMDs?) but genuine games, original packaging and everything.
They have modded consoles because of region-locking (another hole in your argument). Either I can mod the console
Why abandon the project altogether? Even tho the new wii's are epoxied, isn't there still a possibility that the chips can be modded or hacked from the available solder "pads" on the circuit board? I'm not giving up hope yet! just 'cause some resin is around the ic connection points, doesn't mean the "fat lady has sung."
Waninkoko, please finish this project. Yeah, we know that some retard went and leaked the unfinished code, but please finish it?
You know. I don't understand this Nintento vs PS3 vs Xbox fanboyism. I haven't touched my Xbox in months. I don't think it sucks because of it. I've got a ton of games for it. I've used my Wii more recently than my xbox but not all that much either. I don't think it sucks either. I haven't bought a PS3 not because "it sucks" but there's nothing I want to play on it. If I don't play on my PC for a couple months it's not because, "OMG, PC it's such a fad! I can't believe I bought it!"
Seriously... lighten up a bit.
Now that loaf of bread that went bad in the fridge... -that- I shouldn't have bought. ;)