Microsoft working on its own Tegra-powered superphone? Doubtful.
By Chris Ziegler 
posted Nov 26th 2008 8:59AM
posted Nov 26th 2008 8:59AM
Second off, Microsoft now has Danger to keep it busy -- and Danger's core competencies have a long way to go to stretch Tegra to its limits, so we don't think we'll be seeing any superphones out of those guys any time soon. The more likely scenario is that Microsoft will use its Danger acquisition to step up its consumer-friendly mobile media game, which jibes with talk of a Zune-like smartphone codenamed "Pink" that could be announced early next year sans Tegra. With Windows Mobile looking still looking every bit as stuffy as it did five years ago, the company's flagship mobile platform is still at least one or two major generations out from morphing into a catch-all that can look equally at ease in the schoolbag or the enterprise -- a coup RIM has managed to pull off, coincidentally -- and in the meantime, Hiptop is arguably a better starting point with more street cred under its belt, especially considering that Hiptop and Zune are both closed platforms.
So let's run with the assumptions that: a) Pink does exist, and b) it's basically Danger's baby. That game plan prevents Microsoft from rocking the WinMo licensee boat (or yacht, as the case may be) -- and every indication is that traditional players are still going full-steam ahead with Windows Mobile 6.5, a platform that actually stands a fighting chance of putting Tegra through its paces (one need look no further than TouchFLO 3D for evidence of that). How does this play out, then? The same as always, we'd wager -- Microsoft graciously takes the stage with hardware partners at MWC next year, co-announcing a handful of Tegra-powered phones underpinned by the next generation of Windows Mobile. Now get back to Windows 7, Xbox 720, and making decent mice, Microsoft. And let Danger do its thing, alright?
*highfive* for microsoft :)
They should have done it long time ago. iPhone is on fire, walking all over WinMo. Look at iPhone, it works great with both PC and Mac thru iTunes. WinMo only has PC support and prone to crashes.
WinMo's multimedia support sucks sh!t. Who wants to carry a Zune and a smartphone at the same time?
Even if it fails, they tried.
Although official support is lacking, WinMo can sync with a Mac and, unlike the iPhone, it can play audio or video in any format you want using apps like CorePlayer. Furthermore, it has been able to do this for years. Contrary to the claims made in this post, WinMo's greatest strength is the huge number of 3rd-party apps that have been written for it.
I think Microsoft's partners have actually been WinMo's greatest weakness. Year after year they release mediocre phones running low end hardware with tiny, low-resolution screens. Four years ago I bought an HP hx4700 Pocket PC with a 4" VGA screen and a 624Mhz processor and companies like HTC have only just brought out phones that compete with it. WinMo makes much more sense on a larger screen and I rarely have to reach for my stylus.
IMO the best thing that Microsoft could do is release their own WinMo phone with some decent hardware to really let their software shine.
I can't wait for all the Microsoft apologists who rail against Apple's closed hardware (iPhone) to praise Microsoft's closed hardware (Pink/ZunePhone/whatever). Which they will - guaranteed. Just like they now praise the Zune after the complete failure of PlaysForSure.
Redmond has a Reality Distortion Field too, you see...
@ tom
The reason I went to HTC diamond with winmo is because I hated itunes. . . it's a freaking nazi program. And this is from a former itouch owner. You talk about crash. My itouch's Safari crashed and movies that played ok on my PC crashed my itouch. And yes, I do use my HTC smart phone to play music.
for crying out load, it's iPod Touch
it's under the iPod family, and it's called the Touch, thus iPod Touch
there's no such thing as an itouch
@Quix : Say what?
What's to say the ZunePhone will be closed? Do you seriously set you mind on rumors? The iPhone pretty much IS closed. Zune's barely been existing for 3 years, and it's not like the iPod transformed into an iPhone that fast either. It's going to take some time, but "if" Microsoft made a ZunePhone, it'd probably be much more open than the current iPhone. Zune also has XNA : http://zuneinsider.com/archive/2008/02/20/xna-studio-and-zune.aspx
Microsoft has a generally more open attitude, than Apple. I mean, you don't see WinMo restricting what applications you can install. Do you? Or how about all the API's they allow with their Windows Live and VE stuff? There's some other examples too, but I think you already got the hint.
PlayForSure IS a failure, at least to me. It was bound for failure, because the stores didn't have enough content going for them, and the devices were pretty much similar and appeared rather meager to the iPod or other devices. So that's one of Microsoft's failures. Apple has had failures too, and that hasn't stopped Apple, has it? Zune is very different from PlayForSure, and has the actual potential to succeed in the market. That's why there's Zune lovers, because Zune has a lot of good reasons for being liked. Obviously, tech companies can change dramatically, and if you're going to continue to base your opinions solely on past failures, and not look at the other parts that show the potential, then you're giving yourself a limited vision of what a company can do.
Microsoft doesn't have to make their own devices, they can just require certain things of a device in order for it to be granted WinMo as the OS. Like every phone should have Wifi and bluetooth, capacitive touch screen (for touch enabled phones), on board memory and a certain processor speed. I think if they did this we could see a lot more competitive phones out there and better OS performance, WinMo's is not really the problem, it's the hardware.
"It's going to take some time, but "if" Microsoft made a ZunePhone, it'd probably be much more open than the current iPhone." - QuikBoy
You mean "open" like the Zune is?
Uh huh. Microsoft recognized that the integrated hardware/software model provided immense benefits in the PMP market, hence their wannabe iPod, the Zune. Do you seriously think they won't try to emulate the success of the iPhone with their own hardware/software phone combo too? Naive much?
But even when it happens (which it will), the Redmond Horde will embrace it as being the "anti-iPhone."
Again, the double standard rules supreme in the world of Apple-hating Microsofties.
@Quix:
You completely missed Chris's point in the article. There's no reason for Microsoft to release a major hardware platform for the cell market because they already own a large share of it. You do know that HTC's (Win Mo) Touch Diamond is on route to sell 3 million by the end of this year alone, right? That's one single phone. Windows Mobile is on hundreds of phones, worldwide. HTC's original estimates in May put them at around 10 million (total) phones sold. Their forecast has been raised recently.
http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/NewsSearch.asp?DocID=PD000000000000000000000000008003&query=HTC+DIAMOND
Changing a successful business model rather than improving it is stupid. Actually...it's brainless. It'd be like KFC getting rid of their original recipe or ummmm...McDs getting rid of their original hamburger. Microsoft has always tweaked their plans until they dominate their field. If anything, they'll keep improving Windows Mobile and keep the current system and release a completely different platform geared towards the Xbox crowd. ...just as the author stated. Kind of like when KFC released crispy chicken or umm...McDs released the Big Mac.
Your Mp3 player arguement holds no water. Microsoft's CE and Sync systems aren't open platform either but, that'd be like arguing that a stand alone DVD player needs to be able to load up any software I choose. A Zune and an iPod are only made for one main thing...playing music. There's really no need to make that an open system. That's the same with the Xbox. They're not mini-computers with the purpose of allowing the user to multi-task and cater to their specific needs. That's exactly what PCs and Windows Mobile phones are for.
Agreed. They should have jumped aboard this boat a LONG time ago. But will it play out on a phone/Zune player? Or will MS take WinMo 7.0 with a big surprise and revamp the Zune Phone and make a go of it?
Well, engadget is not the only one reporting this story: http://phandroid.com/2008/11/26/the-microsoft-zune-phone-is-coming/
@jakem
I find that concept laughable. Though it may have taken a while, There are now plenty of Windows mobile phones on the market with adequate hardware. The primary problem with Windows Mobile is that IT IS AN ANCIENT PLATFORM! For god sakes, the current GUI was designed a decade ago! The interface is centered around concepts that should have never been used in the mobile arena like dropdown menus and the use of a stylus. Beyond the archaic interface layer, Windows mobile is slow, unreliable, unstable, and the software is subpar. I have used WinMo in many different devices of the years, and I can tell you that the iPhone OS, Nokia S60, and Android are all vastly superior.. MS's only hope is a complete rewrite...
OK...this phone thing, if at all introduced, will follow in the footsteps of the Zune...which is becoming successful. MS also has the idea of bringing the Zune software to Windows Mobile OS..!
What else MS..??
xbox + zune + interagtion = what else :P
I'd say microsoft better think about pushing Tegra or atleast the older GoForce, ATi Imageon, and Qualcomm GPUs on Windows Mobile
Apple's success with the iPhone is in the interface, it's made good use of GPU power, and really it wasn't such a genius idea as much as it was stupid for microsoft to keep making Windows Mobile such a business like OS that doesn't appeal to as a consumer OS, granted it still has a lot of potential, in terms of software it's even more open than Android because it doesn't need jailbreaking to avoid app store regulations and such, they just need to shove better hardware standards down to the manufacturers, and make it more consumer friendly
@Kaikai..
Ohh yes..!! I forgot the xbox....and then the surface..!!
Apparently, MS tells us "We're not just software guys anymore..!"
I would imagine that integration of Zune software is going to required architectual upgrades to hardware. I don't see a way around it, and this would make logical sense.
I, for one, can't wait to have a Zune type phone...
How about a xbox-zune phone? It wouldn't have to do anything with wm6.5 or 7. It would be strictly a gaming-music device that just so happens to be a phone. Think about it. 120+ gigs of music. games downloaded from the newly merged xbox-zune marketplace. It would have hard buttons along with multi-touch.
I would go for it, I sure love my xbox and would like to be able to take decent games and music with me everywhere I go.
-1 internet to whoever tells me that the iphone can already do that
Well I play GB and SNES emulators on my PPC/Winmo2003 Axim x5 all the time. Sure they ain't XBox games but they sure make those Language Processing lectures fly by.
"WinMo's a monster, a long-term cash cow that's got to be treated with the same franchise tag as Windows itself."
As a former WinMo user, I disagree. WinMo is a side gig, just like the Zune. Microsoft hasn't given their mobile operating system enough funding for at least five years and that's why WinMo is in such a mess today. Everything about the platform screams "we don't care" - just look at the built-in apps.
TEGRA will make any phone a winner. True mobile next-gen.
I sure hope it's not WM exclusive. I dream of a Tegra-powered G2 phone running Android... someday.
http://www.talkandroid.com/android-forums/android-hardware/341-t-mobile-g2-phone.html
As of now, the Tegra chipset on runs on WinMo powered devices...and I don't see that changing anytime soon. NVIDIA is pushing hard for 3D games on WinMo that will actually take advantage of the hardware.
There are quite a few games from places like Magmic and Winplay (http://www.winplay.com) that will only gets better with faster hardware.
@RH
I think you got that backwards. Right now only WinMO runs on Tegra chipset but Android could probably be ported to it simply enough. With Google behind Android it actually has a chance of getting support from Nvidia.
It's almost WM exclusive.
From the official website:
Tegra APX applications processors bring the power of visual computing to the palm of your hand, powering next-generation Microsoft Windows Mobile-based smartphones, portable navigation devices (PNDs), and portable media players (PMPs).
Key features:
* 720p HD video capture and playback
* The lowest power for demanding applications like 720p HD video
* 3D user interface that enhances browsing and content navigation
* Premium HD video playback with NVIDIA® PureVideo® technology
* Ability to access visually intensive online applications like mapping and gaming
http://www.nvidia.com/page/handheld.html
So much for NVIDIA being a member of the OHA. Still waiting for the Android Tegra phone.
Microsoft started competing with partners this year with its Online Services offering, so not only have they shown that they will produce hardware but that they will also directly compete with their partners.
I think its safe to say that Symbian lost its place in this mobile race long ago. Even Android to which I was doubtful at first has already placed Symbian practically dead last when you compare it to Android, Apple/iPhone, blackberry/rim, and Winmo.
I really hope Tegra though brings winmobile up to date in performance because every winmobile device that has come out has been seriously limited in performance and I've been a winmobile user since the 2003se release and its really sad that it has yet made any really impressive improvements since then.
Which manufacturer going to choose WinMo when all of the competition is free? Microsoft is definitely last in this race. It doesn't have right product, the right price or the right market share to succeed.
I thought the only free one was Android? Symbian and Windows have fees and Apple and BB cant even be used by 3rd party.
As far as phones for business users are concerned, no one is going to bother with Andriod till there are other ways to sync except using gmail integration. Symbian on the other hand cannot compete against windows anyways as far as business tasks go.
People still prefer their BB's or WinMo devices...
How then is Windows last in this race?
Symbian will be free from next year. It's currently the best selling smartphone OS.
Android is free right now. So are other Linux releases. Neither OS X or BB OS are "free" but they both integrate tightly with the hardware. WinMo's *current* marketshare is below most of its rivals (exc. Android). How is that ever going to change?
Put it this way - You're a manufacturer looking for a smartphone OS for your new mass market product. You're expecting to sell 10 million units. Do you go with the current market leader Symbian for $0, do you go for the shiny new Google OS for $0 or do you go with Microsoft's enterprise (but not consuming) friendly approach for $130mil? It sounds like a no-brainer to me.
@y3k.nik
Symbian is now open source as well, so only Microsoft is left charging licensing fees. Not sure how long Microsoft will be able to do that, with the devices getting so cheap these days.
Re. Nokia, the Nokia 5800 (Tube) is quite an impressive device. Nokia may not be as popular in the US, but they are HUGE globally in smartphones...including business. I wouldn't write them off just yet.
Ah, I didnt know about Symbian going open source. Pardon my lack of knowledge.
You are all right then. MS should do something about the fees if they want to survive in a sea of free OS.
If Tegra could do Multi-Touch like the iPhone it would rule. But since I think Apple owns the patent to that technology I doubt we'll see it.
HUH?
http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/22/g1-multi-touch-a-reality-integrated-headphone-jack-still-just-a/
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/09/04/apples-latest-patent-app-multi-touch-plus-insert-technology-h/
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/22/apple-patent-applications-reveal-updated-multi-touch-system/
Chad, interesting video. Doesn't mean anything about patents, really, as it's an amateur tech demo, and I doubt Apple would try to sue that guy over it. I'm happy to see people are already doing cool things with Android though
Get it now Chad?
@SD
Testy much?
I was simply confused by your comment not belittling you for it. I see why you made your comment now but it still isn't completely accurate. The links you provide are for patents that enhance multi-touch. Multi-touch itself is not patented by Apple and in fact is in use by Microsoft Surface and HP TouchSmart products. We'll see multi-touch on more and more devices now that it has been adopted by enough big name electronics companies.
WTF?
Nobody can patent Multitouch. It's one of the basic ideas you can't patent: The keyboard, the screen, the touchscreen itself, a processor.
Specific technology could PERHAPS be patents, specific GESTURES can be patented, but the idea of using 2 fingers on a screen or surface CANNOT be.
I really can't wait for Tegra devices. I also want Tegra on an Android phone, as doubtful as that is. Let's hope WinMo7 is as enjoyable of a platform as Apple or Android for consumers... I recently bought a Tilt, and decided to go back to my iPhone... Interface is very important, and that's what they need to improve on in WM7.
Guys, the official word is that NVIDIA CEO said they were committed to MS with Tegra, but aren't ruling out the possibility of other OSes running on it.
What's worse is, the official NVIDIA Tegra website has "Microsoft Windows Embedded - Partner" stickers all over them. Looks like nobody gives a crap about the other members of the OHA.
http://www.nvidia.com/page/handheld.html
your analysis couldn't be any more further off. If Winmo is a cash cow that needs to be treated the same as Windows, i'd hate to see what Microsoft does with the franchises it doesn't care about.
MS has allowed OEMs and carriers to abuse WinMo to the point of irrelevence. If MS had taken the same stance as Apple did with the iPhone, there would be no iphone. MS has bowed and cowtowed to the carriers on so many WinMo issues it is not even funny anymore. WinMo is a joke in almost any incarnation. It took an asshole like Stve Jobs to stick it to the carriers and get carte blanche access and say so to the network. Now MS is waking up to do the same.
OEMs had their chance to make a phone with no compromises. OEMs need carriers, but carriers need OEMs too. It is not a two way street, OEMs get bent over by carriers in order to protect their broken business model of selling overpriced trinkets and text messaging plans.
MS has the cach to come out with a kick ass subisdized phone that will sell itself. I expect to see a $199 unlocked phone available in more places than the iPhone. It will do more than the iPhone and it will do it better. Just like MS took a bath to get into the video game sector, they will burn cash to build mobile handset market share. If a carrier decides to join the game all the better, but not necessary.
This is not a rumor. As I have stated before, MS the biggest "ME TOO" company in the entire planet are already hard at work on this project. Yes they will stab their partners in the back, but you cannot blame MS for that. It is their standard operating procedure. Within a few months this device will rear its ugly head and will copy the iPhone and its ecosystem as closely as possible. With thousands of engineers working on this project, their job will be easy. There is nothing to invent. Their weekly meetings consist of trolling Apple related rumor sites and Apple own site to copy ideas to incorporate for this new fecal mattered device.
hate them as you may, you can't fault them for their track record of success though.
Here is a video that shows the zunePhone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRKIDdIaFyE
yes, because we all know that the surface was totally stolen from apple, and not in development by many other companies for minimum 4 years. and the zune, WOW was that a stolen device! I mean, it was a RECTANGLE! Apple totally invented the rectangle!
Don't count anything from apple as original. Mac OSX was originally a unix OS, but was bought by steve jobs from the creator. As everyone knows, Apple literally stole the ipod interface from creative, and is still paying royalties for it. Apple TV is just another Tivo, and there were more "monitor" all-in-ones before the iMac. I'm pretty sure Quanta (or Whatever that company's called) designed the actual chasis for all last-gen mac notebooks, apple only giving them a general plan. The new macbooks are a blatant rip-off of the alienware M15x, and the all-glass screen has been done by HP before.
BTW, you obviously don't know much about corporations. It's called diversifying, all companies do it when they feel the need to expand into other markets to reap more revenue. For all you know, microsoft snagged the tegra chip immediately when it came out, and has been attempting to make a phone since then. If they see a market which can bring in a lot of money easily, then they will spread to that market.
I still remember a quote which really could justify anything you say about stealing ideas.
"There is no innovation, only expanding on old ideas". If nobody stole ideas, then we would only have one car, and it would be black. in this situation, we would only have one cell phone, and it would be the size of a shoebox. But because of our capitalistic society, companies will try to produce the same product as the competition for less. Maybe include another feature, but there isn't anything really different.
there have been recent articles about the iPhone's success as a gaming platform
for a company that has game console platform, and a mobile software platform with support for 3D GPUs for years, it was also dumb of microsoft to not take advantage
even Nokia did a better job with n-gage 2.0 in Europe and Asia
that said there are plenty of 3D games available for years on WinMo, but microsoft never really promoted the platform
all I ever see people playing on WinMo on the subway are the packaged Solitaire and that bubble breaking game, honestly never saw anyone play 3rd party games, or long available homebrew emulators
The business mobile market is comprised of different demographics and for that very reason, diversity is necessary to satisfy unique requirements across various markets. This is why the iphone or symbian or winmo can not be the end all soluton for every market, diversity means choice. It's usually the fanboys who do not work in a specific sector and do not understand it's needs are no where near served by their phone/OS of choice.
Can it play HALO?!?
That would be amazing...
I for one am also still dreaming of Halo 3 for PC. ;)