When all
six versions of Windows 7 were announced, we couldn't help but recoil in horror -- most still don't have all the flavors of Vista straight and now we all have to learn a new recipe for confusion. Microsoft, however, is quite confident that this array of offerings will fix one of its biggest woes: netbooks. If the wee things are running Windows at all it's usually XP, an issue that the company thinks Windows 7 Starter will address, acting as the low-cost intro Vista never was. With Starter's ability to run only three applications simultaneously, MS believes users will get quickly frustrated and then pony up extra cash to move to Home Basic or Home Premium. Will it work? HP at least has
pledged to offer Win 7 on its netbooks, and we found the beta ran quite well on our
VAIO P, so the shift from XP seems inevitable. Whether Starter Edition will push more people to Home Basic than to Linux, however, remains to be seen.
[Thanks, Dilan]
posted Mar 10th 2009 8:19AM
Will Windows 7 starter get rid of some of the microsoft hate that engadget has?
Probably not.
If only Microsoft was like Apple and had only 10% market share and just one OS and made all their money off of hardware! I don't think Engadget's internet tubes could handle that much simultaneous jizzing in the tubeses.
Have you even seen how seriously lacking windows 7 starter is? There is no point in it, and no sense in installing it on anything.
These versions will only continue to incite more microsoft hate.
I don't like the idea of Windows 7 Starter Edition or Engadget's childish ignorance regarding different versions of Windows.
phantasyhero, for sure there Is a point, price, Starter Is cheapper and will help some netbooks to cost less. This Is the point. Who will use more than 3 programs in a netbook?
Nice, not often one encounters an actual M$Fan on the net.
What has Microsoft done to NOT incur the hatred of millions?
* Embedded icons on desktop
* Crappy ribbon
* Crappier paperclip
* Bloated code
* DLLs from hell
* IE7
* Vista
- Vista's myriad iterations
- Vista's UAC
- Vista's insane bloat
* Creating "open" standards that are not open and which they don't even follow fully
* The incredibly hostile and and underhanded way they got those "open" standards made Standard
* Word's ongoing failure to open .doc files ("How shall I extract the text for you? Unreadable or SUPER unreadable?")
Microsoft needs a healthy innovation explosion, not your pathetic defense.
Not only is vista an awesome OS that just suffered from poor drivers at launch (a fault of the hardware companies, not MS) but the ribbon has been acclaimed as being amazing from critics worldwide.
No in fact bad drivers ARE MS's fault. They allowed the industry to adopt a binary closed driver model (Thinking it would help them maintain their market hold IMO)... whereas Linux Solaris BSD Apple/Mac OS X and the like strongly push open source drivers many of which they have written themselves with only on rare occasion having documentation and support from the hardware manufactures to do so. Even now MS refuses to use the superior open source technology being adopted in the open source world and even at Apple (Gallium3d drivers and the LLVM compiler... webkit) that runs faster and is easier to maintain
Does anybody ever actually read the source article, or just Engadget's flamebait? In the source page, not once did the article say that Windows 7 starter was going to be sold on notebooks/netbooks. Microsoft itself has stated it only wished to provide Windows Home Premium and Pro to the public, with the other editions reserved for Enterprise/Volume License customers or for 3rd world countries.
But hey! Why offer factual reporting when you can get more clicks via sensationalized headlines?!?!?!?
OK, I am sure 7 starter will be hacked to run more than 3 application, i am sure you can mask your app as Windows Service or even remove the function that check and enforce this, and i am sure it's legal as long as the EULA don't say you must run than less 3 Apps,
here Microsoft tool to do just that: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q137890/
@Persian
Could you be more of an idiot fanboy??
@gyffes
I agree with your intent, but not everything you said:
* Crappy ribbon - sucks only for the same reason that Mac and Linux apps suck: it's different
* DLLs from hell - the term is "DLL Hell", and it's easy to work around
* IE7 - Much better than IE6 (but I still prefer Firefox/Chrome/Safari)
- Vista's UAC - not the best, but at least it shows some decent concern for security
Windows 7 beta is MUCH better than Vista from my experience. The redesign of the UI is much welcome. The jury's still out whether or not I can say it's as good as Leopard (or more fairly, Snow Leopard), but it's definitely better than past Microsoft operating systems nonetheless.
Actually, I thought it might. But business decisions like this like this are doing absolutely nothing to convince me of upgrading, when even XP Home still does a better job than this.
I love running slow operating systems on portable machines!
Eh, I don't think Windows 7 will be thaaaat bloated from what I've read.
I run Windows 7 on an 800 MHz machine, and it works quite well. Even Aero!
Id love to see OSX run on netbooks with the ease and efficiency with which Windows 7 runs.
For that matter, i'd love to see OSX run on a netbook, PERIOD.
@Hamidxa Please go search gizmodo.com for the dell mini 10 hackintosh that seems to run it perfectly. And the MSI wind again that seems to run it perfectly. Not bad for only 129 bucks if you ask me.
OS X does run on netbooks, but barely. For those who think that Windows is bloated and crappy, they'd no doubt be surprised to learn that a netbook with OS X boots in about 55 seconds. By comparison, XP boots in about 35 seconds, and Win7 in about 30 seconds! (Admittedly, Vista does not belong on a netbook.)
Unless Snow Leopard is a game-changer, which is may be, performance issues will keep OS X away from netbooks and low-cost hardware.
Also, for the Linux fans out there, XP and 7 also boot more quickly than Ubuntu, and deliver better battery-life as well, partially because Firefox runs significantly faster on Windows than on Linux.
@ Mike
Ubuntu is just one Linux distro. My Fedora installs have consistently booted faster than my windows (XP or Vista) on my deskptops and full-powered laptops. Battery life on my old Thinkpad R40 improved by about 15% when I switched to Fedora 6 from XP Pro, and battery life on my HP TX1000 improved about the same amount with Fedora 8 instead of Vista (Ubuntu and Vista were basically dead even in battery consumption on that machine).
I have not bothered trying any windows or Linux distros on my Aspire One netbook since it came with a derivative of Fedora 8 (Linpus) that runs amazingly efficiently and boots in 15 seconds.
Oh, and I can open more than three programs at once for free with Linux distros.
That is a horrible idea. Starter can only run 3 applications at a time?! Hopefully everyone who gets a netbook has a nerdy friend who can install Ubuntu for them.
...who can then throw the netbook off a cliff and tell their not-nerdy friend to get a real laptop.
Netbooks are for (spoiled)children!
Or for those living in third world countries who don't want those really cheapo plastic green things but something that runs at an acceptable rate.
Varying degrees of customers, no?
I would never suggest windows over linux, although IMHO I think windows 7 starter would be great OS for netbooks. It runs smooth, and would put the final nail in the coffin for xp (which microsoft would have done already if not for netbooks).
I don't see the 3 application limit being much of a problem with netbooks anyway. People who use netbooks already acknowledge the fact that most of what they do is going to be done on the tubes. 3 Apps that you would run simultaneously: 1-Chrome, 2-foobar, 3-Pidgin. Other than that, email, document editing, photo editing, you can just do through google or other web apps. Or you could just have an 8-hour-battery-life thin client and just run NoMachine.
Long story short, custom versions of linux *should* reign supreme on netbooks, but 7 starter will allow MS to finally move on, drop xp and give customers their comfortable windows feel.
@elbravo I think your short list of applications would not be indicative of what your average person would want to run. How about a real world situation. Outlook, web browser, music app, word doc, plus most likely an IM, skype or business centric software like Lotus Notes. Dont forget that if you wanted to run excel that counts as another program. Now you might be able to get around that by running open office since it is a unified piece of software. Also dont forget that to run your 3g card you need to have whatever your providers software is running so that would take up one of your 3 slots also, and god forbid you have a blackberry, then you would have the desktop manager wanting to run. Etc etc.
In short, 3 applications is a bad bad idea.
My old 1.6ghz 1gb of ram hp ran all of that plus more in its day and it isnt even close to as powerful as the modern day netbooks are.
Grow up Bill. I'm not a child, nor am I spoiled. I just wanted something portable and less than $500 for my night classes. Could I have gotten a full-on laptop for the same price? You betcha, but i wouldn't have room in my pack for all those textbooks!
@Dilinger
The scenario you depict is not realistic for what a netbook is designed to be.
Web browser + email + chat, that's what a netbook is meant to do.
I think it'd be pretty rare to see Lotus Notes installed on a netbook.
Hey man, all I'm saying is that nothing looks more ridiculous than a grown man hunched over a tiny 7-inch laptop.
I don't know why they bothered with the starter if it is crippled so. People tend not to buy things like that eg: 4gb iPhone, Xbox 360 Core Bundle.
well just like the 2 examples you listed, they do it so they can say their product starts are "such and such low price". nobody wants 360 Arcade model, it's missing too much stuff, the Pro or Elite are far better in having all necessary parts included. this just seems like wasted time and money releasing an OS SKU that they know people won't want. i guess from a marketing standpoint it kinda makes sense but logically, it's just a waste of resources.
Like the Wii? Which is "crippled" for selling without a memory card, a "nunchuck", a "zapper", a wheel, a charge system, and a controller add-on that provides increased motion sensitivity.
Most people who use netbooks only need a couple apps running anyway.
I thought Win7 represented a fundamental change in the way that microsoft operated? Who exactly comes with with such crock of shit decision making?
Though I'm a big fan of Win7, this Starter Edition is a load of crap. My sincere hope is that, like Vista Home Basic before it, OEMs will (almost) totally ignore it. They have to know that no one wants this.
It's going to come down to pricing. Microsoft may give Starter away to netbook OEMs for $10, and demand $75 for Home Premium. On a $250 system, it's going to be hard to find room for a $75 OS. Hopefully, enough of the OEMs will push back and demand that, on low-spec systems, they get Home Premium for $50 (or less).
I think Microsoft will have to drop the price. It's a pretty pivotal time for them, and if they can't serve the low-cost market, they actually might start losing share to Linux. For real this time. That's the last thing that Microsoft wants.
I'm a Windows power-user and, as mentioned, a big fan of Windows 7. I'll definitely pay $100 to upgrade my main system when Windows 7 launches. However, I definitely WON'T pay $100 to put Windows 7 on my netbook. Though it's running the Win7 beta right now, and I greatly prefer it, XP is capable of handling all the tasks that I actually need to do on my netbook. I really don't know what Microsoft can do in this situation to squeeze profit out of the high-end and serve the low-end just as well.
I heard a totally non-manufactured rumor that Windows 7 will be totally wonderful and Microsoft never steered me wrong before so I'll just try it.
If it turns out to be limited to three apps or something demented like that, then, well, I'm sure Microsoft will help me out with a solution. Why should I look more deeply into it than that? It's not like I need to save money, given the rosy economic outlook predicted.
Yes buy a mac with identical hardware to a PC just $200 dearer, definitely the cure for a depression.
@ Major4Play
Lets take a look at iMacs. The equivalent PC AIO is around the same price. Therefore iMacs are not over priced.
The average user doesn't need quad core performance. OSX doesn't need the horse power Vista/Win7 needs.
Microsoft can't make operating systems, they can only sell them. iMacs run OSX, which makes Vista and Windows 7 look like absolute shit.
Can't afford an iMac? Ever hear of a Mac Mini?
Wow fanboi much. Mac OSX is bloated equally as well as Vista is. Your offer that a mac mini is a viable solution is laughable at best. A mini is over priced for the specs that come with it, I have one and know full well how slow the thing runs. With 1 gb of memory Apple should be slapped hard for even trying to say this is a computer. OSX runs dog slow with 1 gb of memory installed, so slow in fact if you even attempt to run more than one application at a time you will quickly see why there is no maximize button in osx - it simply is not built to multi-task with multiple windows opened.
I had to use a PUTTY KNIFE to open the mini and upgrade it, once I put 4gb the machine flies. Yes I said PUTTY KNIFE cuz the morons at apple don't know how to use screws to assemble a pc.
Mac's are overpriced by a good 300-400 dollars, they are not compatible with most professional tools and to even get those tools installed you have to go out and buy a copy of Windows; what's the point when you can just buy a cheaper pc. I guess you get a pretty case, but I use my computer for real purposes not to pretend to be a fake journalist (ie bloggers) or a fake musicians (ie. all the tards who use garageband).
@PG
It's funny when a Windows user calls a Mac user a fanboy. The Mac user's probably used both Windows and OSX, where as the Windows user has probably only used Windows. It's a case of, "well I bought this so im going 2 say mine is better regardless of whether or not it is." Actually I'm running XP now thanks. OSX is bloated to an extent, but it is certainly NOT comparable to OSX.
I doubt you've actually used OSX. it doesn't run "dog slow" with 1GB of ram, unless you're running VMFusion or Parallels at the same time as OSX. The boys over at MacRumors ever run OSX Leopard (that's the latest version of OSX FYI) on G3 Macs (G3 Macs are old computers just so you know). Perhaps you meant to say Vista runs slow on 1GB of ram.
There's no maximize button on SOME applications on OSX. This is because these applications aren't intended to be run full screen. That's proof enough that you don't know what you're talking about. When you're trying to add to a discussion it helps to know what you're talking about.
@pg Ignoring the fact that you most likely dont have a mac mini, i will say you obviously know nothing about either the discussion at hand or computers in general. Need to install windows for professional tools like what? Pro-tools NOPE, Photoshop NOPE, Maya NOPE, Must be video editing software you are talking about, oh wait Final Cut Pro. IF by professional tools you mean Call of Duty World at War then yes you are right, but only kind of.
So because someone uses their computer for writing they are morons. And because someone uses probably the best free midi and audio editing tool they are tards? Pray tell what do you do, build space ships?
Your insecurity on display here at engadget is overwhelming, What the fuck are you doing reading this FAKE JOURNALISM site (Blog) if only retarded people use their computers to write them? If you know so much about OSX, and the fact that no software exists on the face of the planet for them, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU BUY A FUCKING MINI YOU FUCKING ONE HANDED FRAPPING RETARDED MONKEY? Oh yeah, you didnt.
Now please shut up and never post here again. Also this post is no bashing windows, this post is only pointing out the pure stupidity of the statement that it is a reply to.
Good Day Sir
David, do you want to stop now or carry on and look more like a clueless dick than you do already?
Video editors and graphics designers think they are the only pros in the world.
Seriously. It's the Apple effect.
@Superhobo Well what kind of pro are you talking about, what kind of software are you running that doesnt exist for OS X? I really am intrigued. The only subpar software category i can think of is Sheet Metal and Insulation contractor estimation software, but there is still some, and if you have worked with any of it in windows you know that they are all badly designed anyway.
@dillinger
You know other professionals like web designers use mac to legally use every operating system on one computer to test different browsers in different operating systems.
You know doctors and medical specialists often view many CAT scans and MRIs with mac due to the some software that is used for the massive image rendering.
When will people realize that there is not one operating system for everyone? We have a choice.
"You know other professionals like web designers use mac to legally use every operating system on one computer to test different browsers in different operating systems."
Why on earth would one need to do that now that Safari is on Windows?
Why on earth would someone put Safari on Windows? They're already stuck with one crappy browser on the machine to begin with.
"And because someone uses probably the best free midi and audio editing tool they are tards?"
Wait...Garageband? Really?
Someone here doesn't know what they're talking about :3
@Dillinger
We can start with Minitab v14 and work from there if you like. There's a lot of software that's Windows only.
Garageband is OK in a cutsey kind of way it's hardly Cubase, is it? That said, most of the recording techs I know use Macbook Pros.
I have to agree with David, OS X is rather slow with 1Gb of ram. And I have used it so I know. I can't stand the way Macs work or the limited compatibility it has, so I stick with Windows and Linux only.
OMG! this would definitely be the year of Linux!
Hopefully this will back fire on them. I'm gonna by a $1000 dollar Vaio P and half an OS, No thanks.