We've seen it
time and time again -- carriers using their power to
strong-arm consumers into paying services that could very well be free. Over in Europe, the almighty EU is considering "binding guidelines" that could force wireless operators to allow
VoIP services
such as Skype to run over their cellular networks. It should be noted that all of this is still very preliminary at the moment, but if the Union can somehow force carriers to support these so-called "innovative services," we could see a very favorable (for consumers, anyway) domino effect. As it stands, each EU country has the ability to decide individually on how they deal with blocked internet services, but obviously an EU-wide mandate would seriously shake things up. Or cause unstoppable riots, one.
[Via
Electronista]
posted Apr 13th 2009 7:37AM
First roaming charges, now this?
I LOVE THE EU! :D
Yea, I've felt the same way since the renaissance.
I think we all saw this coming. For anyone who missed it, some lobbying started a few weeks ago to try and accomplish this: http://bit.ly/837iO
- Michael
Considered the crazy prices Italian carriers charges for mobile data, I bet they are quite happy of skype coming to handhones!
Why? Why would you use the N800 for the picture? Why?
Every time I see a Nokia Tablet I'm compelled to comment about the ultimately frustrating experience I had with it.
My N810 came so CLOSE to hitting the mark too. Bummer.
They shouldn't be too scared. Just because its free doesn't mean everyone will be doing it. It's a lot more complicated than a normal call. Like free movie downloading.... most people till now don't know how to do it even though its been around for years...
Most people don't shoplift either.
Yes downloading might be a challenge for some but now there's Netflix which has dug the grave for movie rental chains like Blockbuster.
As for skype I see a bright future ahead. Once a lot of people with be on unlimited internet plans they would only use their monthly minutes to call mortals while using skype to call their pals who are also log on to skype of their smartphone.
Obviously this is in the distant 1-3 years and will be heavily dependant on smartphone having the capabilities to run applications like skype in the background.
Yes, well these idiot consumers have managed to stop bumping in to walls and getting confused by stairs, and have figured IM out. VOIP isn't more complicated. You have a contacts list, you select somebody, and hit 'call'.
It's not widespread because the carriers don't allow it. Not because it requires a proof of the Goldbach conjecture.
So all that will happen is *everyone* will see a small price hike. That's how government mandates work.
Government: Durrrr do this because we tell you.
Company: Fine, but everyone's going to pay for it embedded in their prices now instead of just people who want it.
More flexibility on cell networks is great, but there's always a downside when it's forced on companies.
This is the EU we're talking about, not the US.
Markets follow the same basic principles no matter where you are.
Except, of course, that there are carriers that have supported VoIP since the beginning. The others can't hike prices because then people will flock to those carriers that have already included the costs into prices that are most likely lower than the competition.
We have telecoms regulators to stop that sort of thing happening.
You see, in Europe, we've been doing this "government" thing for ages. There's an established framework so that ideas such as these can be translated in to actual benefits without it going the other way. We don't just make stuff up without thinking it through.
I suppose you think that way because you're an American, and unable to accept the idea that government can set rules which companies have to abide by, which result in benefits for the general population with no apparent downside. Here in Europe, we have things like the NHS and free access to museums and art galleries.
When you use internet on phones in Norway, there's no limit on what you can do, so VoIP services has been usable since phones that could run them were released.
Unsurprisingly, basically no-one uses VoIP for anything else than calling relatives and friends on the other side of the planet from their PC's.
3UK has been offering free, unlimited skype-to-skype calls for some time now on most (if not all) of their phones.
Yeah totally, but then SIP is already available on a lot of the last gen phones out there, definitely symbian - Something that's changing slowly. o2 leaves everything on the n95 for example for Orange and Vodafone both take out the SIP capabilities (SIP is what enables VOIP). Anything that protects our market and stops it getting like the US carrier situation can only be a good thing.
And background apps BECOMMING available? Please, there's only one smartphone out there that can't run background apps and we all know which it is. (CLUE: it's the one that had built in stereo bluetooth that was held back until a paid update)
I've never heard anyone call the EU, the "Union"... maybe I just haven't lived in Europe long enough :-)
- Fraggle
It fits. Think about it, the US is a Union and all the states spend most of their time bickering with one another. Sounds exactly like the European Parliament =)
Well, if they could just mandate the carriers to stop cutting features from the phones that'd be a start. Like many of the new Nokia phones have the use of SIP restricted so they can't be used to make VoIP calls.
That's a US thing, most phones in Europe don't come with blocks like that (but can be locked to networks if sold with a contract) .
"Or cause unstoppable riots"
Of HAPPINESS. Yay for free calls.
Go VOIP!
You realize there are no free calls, right ? you'll pay for it one way or the other.
Zup... Shhh... they think that anything from the gov't is free...
Don't try to ruin their delusion.
Not sure how using Wifi would be "using their cellular services for VoIP"... However, I understand why cellular carriers block this in the first place -- you are likely going to use VoIP in a wifi area as opposed to the minutes on your plan. Ergo you will get the cheapest plan you can if you know you'll use Skype or whatever in most circumstances.
The converse of that argument is that the cellular company actually uses less bandwidth on you while getting your money anyway.
I don't see why they care so much though.
less bandwidth through them==less money you give to them
Spyder, unless you change your data plan (which most will not) you'll still have the same unlimited data amount that you'd have before. As I said, you will use less of their bandwidth and less of their services yet still pay the same amount.
The only way I see them losing money is if people reduce their minutes in the plan.
The article is talking about Voip over cellular networks, not wi-fi.
Of course the wireless providers would object to it.
Now europeans are gonna enjoy the full skype integeration on the Nokia N97. Lucky guys...
What will happen if everyone starts using Skype over the cellular data network instead of carrier minutes, is that the carriers will no longer be able to sell their higher-minutes-included plans. So then they will end up charging more for the minimum plans, so the minimum plans will go from $40 to $60 or something like that, to subsidize the Skype use. We will end up paying for it, don't worry.
It's Europe. Some carriers already support you going nuts with Skype or what-have-you from the get-go. Those carriers don't need to raise costs because they've been bearing those costs for longer. Therefore, if the other carriers raise prices, people will leave (if they're not in a contract).
minimum plans are $40? which country do you live in?
isn't a minimum plan where you get no free minutes or data transfer?
Where in the world do you pay $40-60 per month?
Let's see:
My plan has 300Min (national to all carriers and landline), 1000SMS, 1100 MB Data and I think there's unlimited Skype included in there too (haven't used it so far).
Costs me a whopping 9€/month (I'm from Austria). No, I don't see prices going up because of this stuff.
Here in the US, it's a bit different, with most plans being on contract, and minimum $40 a month or so for 400-500 anytime minutes. The carriers here I'm sure will not let people use skype over cellular and give up the chance to sell a higher minute plan without a fight or raising rates.
They are going to do what road runner is doing, jack the price up by 300%
Yep. Maybe not that drastic, but there will be a price increase. Power-hungry politicians don't really understand what they're doing with these over-reaching measures.
You do realize that this is Europe we're talking about and not the US? We have a different way of doing things, and government intervention is rarely if ever a bad thing. Thank the (fictional) god i was born on the right side of the atlantic.
the "right side of the Atlantic" being countries with high taxes where you give all your money to the government and then they give it to the artists, the unemployed, and then they give whatever is left back to you. Or perhaps you mean the "right side of the Atlantic" where there are video surveillance cameras everywhere. Grow up. Your little fantasy world may be perfect but the real one isn't, and unless you accept that and try to make it better then it will just keep getting worse while you keep closing your eyes tighter and tighter.
John: Maybe the right side of the atlantic where we actually GIVE A FUCK about eachother and show some humanity, maybe the right side of the atlantic with free healthcare, maybe the right side of the atlantic with the higher life expectancies, qualities of life, less crime and poverty? With less segregation and less discrimination? Equal rights for gays? Hell, if aborts should be legal or not isn't even a discussion over here, it's _THAT_ obvious.
Just be quiet you capitalist swine.
http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/best.html
Check it out.
Ewww. What is that hideous thing in the photo for this story? It looks like a big brick!
Skype over 3G would be great in Australia, if only our data plans weren't so measly. Before the iPhone came along a year ago, we were paying as much as $30 for 10mb.....now, it's half reasonable- we get 500mb included in some caps (e.g. Optus $59 cap = $350 worth of calls/minutes, and 500mb data)...it's still BS.
Just how much data would Skype use on an average 3 minute call?
This is ridiculous and makes a mockery of the free Market. Suppliers should choose which services they wish to offer. You don't see the EU mandating McDonalds to hand out Burger King menus or vice versa. If the consumer wants it they can source a provider or choose the correct plan. As one poster notes, the cost will be passed on to everyone- not just the user.
Scrap the EU!
(love from London, England)
I bet you vote UKIP. Or Tory.
Obviously you forgot what it was like before the EU regulated roaming charges. That wasn't free market economics before, it was coordinated extortion.
"I bet you vote UKIP. Or Tory."
Because Labour has worked out so well. And the Lib Dems have no feasible ideas for just about anything.
Have you been living under a rock since September? The "free market" has caused a catastrophic global economic meltdown. Your ideas have blown up in your face. The global consensus now is that regulation is important (The EU told us that decades ago), and that companies are irresponsible and heartless unless you slap them in the face with a statutory mandate.
Consumer protection > 'Free' market, in Europe, and thank the gods for that.
You see the locked down stripped of features phones offered by draconian carriers in the US? That's your free market.
I quite prefer the government regulated version in Europe.
Isn't that cute, you think you know economy :P
Cellular communications are an oligopoly by far (there is basically one company for every 16 million EU citizens), the best thing is for the governments to intervene, and since you know so much about markets and stuff, you surely remember what a cartel is right ?
Cheers guys I love the childish remarks (read: "aw that's cute you think you know economics and something about the global free market failing). Wrong.
The global free market, as you call it- was already regulated but just badly, inefficiently and over-governed (see: FSA vs. Bank of England debacle). Shit regulation caused this, not lack of it.
To address the point about the cartel/oligarchy- my point is not one founded in extremism to the point where I don't understand the telecommunications industry (after all, I worked in it). A light touch for consumer protection is always encouraged; but mandating businesses just hinders them- money just travels a different way. A light nudge is always best, rather than huge socialist tax-blowing measures. Once again (FSA vs. Bank of England debacle).
What cost will be past on? The cost of not blocking VoIP ports on their networks? I just hope that standard protocols like SIP take precedence over proprietary like Skype. I am mostly sad SIP hasn't been a bigger hit. Mostly because people are uninformed. Hopefully this will also lead to set top boxes being legislated to use standars like DVB-C/S and h.264. This kind of stuff is very important and the EU is way ahead of at least my Swedish government when it comes to legislate for free markets on new infrustructures. I have yet to understand CableCARD in the US but I believe it is something in that vein to.
This is truly important stuff, big corporations don't like free markets, they prefer monopoly. Own the clients not by loyalty because of good products, own them by eliminating choice. Which is why black fiber/physical infrastructure should be government and service providers private. What if we had three road networks in every country and you could only drive on the ones you subscribed too?
i hope this passes
VoIP using cellular access (as opposed to the use of WIFI access) would most probably not be practical in reality due to the highly assimmetrical access (much more download bandwidth than upload) that cellular networks have (including HSDPA). This is not likely to change any time soon. Making easier for people to use Skype on WIFI access on cellular phones can have some negative impact on incumbent operators but, in my opinion, not too high.
3 in the UK do free skype calls currently - to maintain quality of service its actually a circuit switched call to the network and then VoIP from there. and yes - even the call to the network is free.
While in the US, providers are disallowing VOIP, video streaming, and tethering. I can see the 5GB cap that everybody have being lowered in the future.