Pre apps successfully installed on non-rooted phone, world waits for details

There have been no shortage of custom apps hitting the Pre already, including a number of old favorites, but all have required a little bit of roto-rooting ahead of time to lay the groundwork for such non-authorized code. That might change in the very near future thanks to the work of a trio of dedicated deviant coders going by the handles xorg, simplyflipflops, and Shaya Potter. Over the span of just a few days they managed to figure out how to package and sign custom apps in such a way that anything can be installed on a completely stock phone -- the only catch is they're waiting to see what Palm has to say about it before they release a full how-to. Since the company has its own plans of making most developers wait at least a few months before setting them free we can't imagine the response is going to be: "This is totally awesome, please tell the world our secrets." But, we'd be happy to be wrong.

[Thanks, Bo]

[Scott @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:31AM]

all information should be free, post a how-to!

[Templarian @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:14AM]

I have a feeling this is something palm is going to fix pretty quickly. Is nice for developers, but obvious problem for normal users.

[Rob @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:24AM]

How is this bad for users? Being able to install whatever you want on a piece of hardware you own? It seems like the only loser here is Palm.

[Templarian @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:39AM]

@Rob, I think you mean "software", and while it has so many good uses for developers, it can easily be turned into a bad thing.

I for one would love them to leave it in and add an alert message, but this isn't going to happen.

[joshua @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:01AM]

Palm said from the beginning that you would be able to install applications from outside of the app catalog. They never said exactly how, but they said it would be possible.

[sweet greggo @ Jun 22nd 2009 11:10AM]

@Templarian

How would installing a signed app be a problem? Your statement makes no sense.

[Templarian @ Jun 22nd 2009 12:03PM]

@sweet greggo, I misread it earlier, thought it said that one could sign their own apps for the email thing. Makes a little more sense now.

[Jake @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:15AM]

WE DON'T CARE!!!!

[borland502 (SDF Macross) @ Jun 22nd 2009 4:08PM]

Jake m'boy, I think you do. Follow my logic here...you see an article on the Pre. Do you

A.) Not care and never click on it
B.) Click on it and post, using enough exclamation points to make a small fence

[Michael Witt @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:48AM]

No, _YOU_ don't care. You aren't the only one on the internet.

[216 @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:16AM]

Nice to see the WebOS community so active even though its so young. Looks promising as an alternative to the iPhone Community

[javier @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:16AM]

Where could I download that wallpaper?

[Mam00th @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:19AM]

He gets them from eboy and then crop them.

http://hello.eboy.com/eboy/

[webran61 @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:21AM]

He was nice enough to post a link to his actual wallpapers the other day.

http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/eng_bgs.zip

[SV @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:11AM]

What are these wallpapers from?

[Don @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:28AM]

Those wallpapers are nice!
thx

[webran61 @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:18AM]

How good are the hacked apps? I'd want some more options besides an NES emulator.

[Kemwer @ Jun 22nd 2009 10:15AM]

They are still trying to understand *how* to make apps without any docs or SDK. Give them time to figure that part out before asking *how good* the apps are.

You probably won't get anything more than test apps right now.

[javier @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:26AM]

Thanks so much.

[Mike K @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:28AM]

One of the reasons that Palm was so successful in the past was that you didn't need to hack anything or do anything special to put whatever you wanted on YOUR device. I've had Palms since 1997 and have always loved the idea of just getting anything you want anytime you want (even OS changes - remember HackMaster anyone?). The very thought that some code might not be "authorized" is completely counter to what made Palm great in the first place.

[SV @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:12AM]

This works until manufacturers have to get in bed with service providers to compete in the US mobile market..

[Mike K @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:54AM]

I fully understand, and hate the strangle hold the carriers have on the hardware in the US. When I bought my Treo 650 I purposely bought an unlocked GSM one, however when I needed to replace it and bought a Centro it was only available as an AT&T branded phone.

However, dispite the AT&T crapware that hogs my Centro's memory, AT&T doesn't (can't?) restrict me on what software I install.

If the new Palm OS requires me to buy apps from them, and they have to be approved, then I can't ever see myself (a ten+ year Palm user) buying another Palm. Too bad.

[glamajamma @ Jun 22nd 2009 10:29AM]

Things like tethering are only an issue with the iPhone because the relationship between Apple and ATT. Tethering has been available on a shit load of other phone OSes including Symbian, WinMo, Blackberry and Classic Palm without any jailbreaks.

I guess one unified, locked down, monolithic app store kinda sucks for some people, by some people I mean iPhone users.

[Michael Le @ Jun 22nd 2009 12:23PM]

I hate how companies put restrictions on products that you paid for. I can understand piracy but anything else is ridiculous.

[TimmyRaa @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:32AM]

What is a "Pre"?

[nvidiagtx @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:37AM]

I was actually hoping you could tell me.

[ED @ Jun 23rd 2009 1:39AM]

'Pre' is a prefix, and since 'prefix' has the prefix 'pre', you can probably work out what 'pre' means if you know what 'prefix' means, and you can work out what 'prefix' means by the example of 'pre' being the prefix of 'prefix'.
See?

Oh, and it's the new smartphone from Palm. But I bet you knew that.

[pedro @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:33AM]

Good work from the Palm community, I said for Pre owners not to worry too much about delayed SDK.

[Choco_Taco @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:43AM]

If the pre didn't feel so cheap and like it was going to break I would of picked up one rather then an Iphone 3GS.

[TheLionOfAzzalle @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:51AM]

What are you talking about? They look and feel pretty firm to me.

My only problem with the pre is the keyboard. It were a slider like the HTC Touch Pro I would prob stay w/ Sprint and keep my iTouch. However they way they have the keyboard setup is not my ideal way. Plus the keyboard itself isn't that great. I found it to annoying to type on it. The keys are way too close to one another.

Plus it will be awesome to combine my iPod with my phone in the iPhone. So to me it's not even a question. The only things I'll miss about Sprint are the nights starting at 7PM and the text message being included in my plan.

In short Sprint has the best plans but the iPhone 3G S is definitely by far the best phone out there IMO.

[Choco_Taco @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:59AM]

I hate the keyboard too. Wish it was like the touch pro. If you've actually held one the pre it feels very plasticy and light weight. Not firm like the Iphone and the sharp edge of the keyboard are sort of annoying. If they would of done a large keyboard and maybe heavier duty construction I would without a doubt went with a pre.

[dewayne @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:39AM]

The pre is actually a very durable phone, my wife has dropped hers at least 5 time since getting on the 6th, twice at Cedar Pointe on Thursday, it has the most minute scratches on the outer part of the case and since she dropped it once while opening she has a couple of pavement scuffs at the top near the mirror. Other than that I am very impressed with its durability, it looks flawless unless you put it 6 inches away from your eye.

[Orrett Junior @ Jun 22nd 2009 11:35AM]

I own a Pre myself and its an awesome piece of hardware. I will be honest with you though it has some short falls but tell me one cell phone that got it right the first time around? The iPhone is in its third generation and it still does not support multi-tasking.

That said I think both the Pre and iPhone are wonderful phones. They excel at different things. But to say the Pre feels cheap is nonesense. It has a solid feel and is easy to use.

[james @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:46AM]

Hurry up. I'm sitting here holding my first gen iPhone waiting for the final answer on whether or not to get the 3gs. If the Pre turns out to have a big hack / homebrew community I might just jump off the bandwagon.

[krische @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:51AM]

Well, look at all they have done it just a little over 2 weeks.

[John Allison @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:18AM]

I have my first gen as well and I am not wasting my time with the 3GS. AT&T is doing a great job of sucking as much money out of their customers before they lose their exclusivity.

In July I'll be jail breaking my phone and moving to T-Mobile. I'll wait for a year or so to see what Apple releases next and with which carrier.

I expect Verizon to be expanding their network with the new bandwidth they purchased from the FCC. AT&T also won a share but I just don't see them building their network to be as robust as verizon.

[Taylor @ Jun 23rd 2009 12:00PM]

You realize you would save $20 per month with the Pre over the iPhone, right? AT&T is a ripoff.

[G @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:23AM]

Why exactly wouldn't palm want as many applications as possible to made for their phone?

[glamajamma @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:25AM]

I don't think anything palm has done up to this point would lead anyone to believe that palm would lock this down. They have not complained about hacking the source until people started talking about tethering, and this was due to sprint not palm. They always said apps would be available outside their app store.

I mean this isn't apple we are talking about here. With apple you could expect a suck ass response.

[sinacism @ Jun 22nd 2009 1:56PM]

My girlfriend is a palm user for a number of years and the fact you have to switch carries kills her. I personally think the excusivity clauses in all of these phones is a joke. I personally have the phone I want on the carrier I like but, I got lucky I see everyone switching over to get the phone they want and that defeats the purpous because they get stuck with a carrier they dont like or cant use to the fullest.

I cant wait to see this phone open up to other carries I really want to get it for my GF since she is a programmer and has old applications that can be used on this phone. I think Palm will keep this untouched since they seem to be programmer friendly and they need some kind of foot hold over the iphone and this might be it.

[privkie @ Jun 23rd 2009 6:54PM]

I agree fully....

[Michael Le @ Jun 22nd 2009 12:19PM]

The Pre community needs a group like the iPhone Dev Team that wipes their *** with letters from companies.

[logicbomb.de @ Jun 22nd 2009 12:46PM]

This is very impressive news for such a recent device.

It's awesome that the homebrew community for the Pre is developing quite nicely.

Reminds me of the early PSP days when you could launch unsigned homebrew using the %APP and APP folder names to trick the boot sequence into skipping the signature check.

[Ryan @ Jun 22nd 2009 1:21PM]

I was excited to swap my 2g iphones for a couple shiny new pre's, the problem though is they are still out of stock everywhere. I was told by a sprint store employee they expect more around Christmas, and every best buy just tells me they have no clue when any will come in.

Sorry palm but I'm fickle. I've already traded up for new 3GS phones. We can try this dance again maybe in 2 years.

[NoobSlayer @ Jun 22nd 2009 1:47PM]

right i'm sure they told you to come back at CHRISTMAS. makes total sense. off ya go iFanboy. have fun with your 100,000 app store on a phone that only lets you run one at a time. i'll take the ability to multitask only a few apps any day over that crap.

Pandora + turn-by-turn Sat GPS directions + Instant Messaging at the same time, FTW.

[whatevah @ Jun 22nd 2009 2:26PM]

Either you're a troll, or the Sprint rep was clueless.

I got a Pre 2 days after launch. How? I called a store that had sold out, and asked if they had gotten any in. It seems Sprint stores are getting stock in every few days.

But hey, the iPhone has lots of apps! And a compass! Enjoy coughing up the few hundred dollars extra a year for service with AT&T too, Mr Instant Gratification.

[TavisJohn @ Jun 22nd 2009 4:53PM]

I love how people think that comparing the Apple App Store that is a few years old to the Pre's app store that is a few weeks old is acceptable.

Give the Pre App Store 6 months, THEN see what magic comes out.

The iPhones had NO APP STORE or SDK for 6 months after the first iPhone came out. Palm Pre already has dozens of official apps after a few weeks!

There are already many apps being made for the Pre WITHOUT ANY SDK AVAILABLE! When the SDK comes out, expect an EXPLOSION of apps in and out of the app store!

[Ryan @ Jun 22nd 2009 11:12PM]

Some angry kids in this thread.

[PreInsiders @ Jun 22nd 2009 6:08PM]

I personally think that this will be accepted by Palm. After their last statement regarding homebrew and development on the Pre, they really seemed just as eager as the developers themselves. I can't imagine Palm trying to shut this down, but I am happy that Xorg, Simplyflipflops and Spotter had the courtesy to wait for official word. Just goes to show that we have mature, respectful people working on these projects. Been wondering others thoughts on this subject, specifically as to why Palm would be upset about this: http://preinsiders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19

[sam @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:36PM]

Asking permission from Palm is the biggest wuss move ever. Why on earth would we need permission from Palm to do something the device is clearly capable of without hacking? Look at the licensing for the phone - it's all open - you can do what you want.

If it was me I would ask Palm only to see if they're as awesome as they claim they are. Then I would release it regardless of what they said, and let their answer stand as proof of how stupid/awesome they are.

Proceed carefully, Palm. If you don't embrace this, someone else will do it and you will be off to a bad start.