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  • The Daily Grind: What can PAX Prime 2013 do for you?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    08.30.2013

    August is always a patchwork of gaming conventions, and since August is almost over, that makes this weekend's PAX Prime the last major gaming con of the year (if you don't count BlizzCon, anyway). In fact, PAX is one of the best cons for MMO and MOBA fans. This year, Massively's sending Justin Olivetti, Patrick Mackey, and Jasmine Hruschak to PAX, and we've overloaded them with games to cover. Both Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV are hosting massive off-site events; The Elder Scrolls Online and WildStar will be out in force with hands-on demos on the show floor itself. Naturally, we'll be checking out SOE's lineup -- EverQuest Next, Dragon's Prophet, and DC Universe on the PS4 -- as well as The Crew, The Repopulation, Wander, Guns of Icarus, and Wargaming's roster. We've even booked our MOBA expert to check out Smashmuck Champions, SMITE, Strife, Infinite Crisis, and the League of Legends NA regionals. Now you know what we're hoping to see. What are you hoping to see (other than "let me in the beta!")? Which games do you wish were going? What do you want to see from the big-name MMOs, launched, relaunched, and not-yet-launched, and the little indies? What announcements weren't made at Gamescom last week that really ought to land at PAX before the last pre-holidays convention opportunity is gone? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: How would you define 'massive'?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    08.23.2013

    In our editorial Soapbox this week, a Massively writer suggested that MMO players have a difficult time agreeing on what constitutes an MMO at least in part because of fundamental confusion over the term "massive." I've always thought the word too relative to be useful; I like the idea of playing alongside thousands of fellow geeks, but very few of the MMOs and MMORPGs I've played since the dawn of the genre ever actually put more than a few dozen people on my screen at a time, and those that tried anyway usually lacked the tech to pull it off without extreme lag. Most MMOs, even single-shard EVE Online, are divided in some way, be it over shards or server boundaries or layered zone instancing or dungeon instances or phasing or even lobbies, and it just doesn't make much difference unless the economy is tanked as a result. A game that isn't massive but feels massive is more an MMO to me than one that's technically massive but plays like a single-player title -- "massive" seems a happy illusion at best and a double-standardish proxy for "old-school" at worst. But many gamers are convinced they know exactly where the line in the sand must be drawn between the massives and the nots. So today, let's assume you, the readers, get to decide for the genre what "massive" means. How many people does it entail -- and how and where and in what numbers precisely must they interact -- for a game to be "massive" enough to merit the term MMO? And how many old school MMORPGs would fit that definition? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: How do you define roleplaying?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    08.16.2013

    Like many of you, I've gone through so many stages of roleplaying; I started out as most people do, playing an idealized version of myself in Ultima Online. In EverQuest, I found myself funneling my roleplay into fan fiction and formal events because there was so little time between dungeon camps and raiding to actually step into a role. Star Wars Galaxies was my turning point; I finally became truly immersed and willing to play full-time as characters totally different from me, and that's partly because the game encouraged non-combat roles and activities. I never had to fight the game to be a real person in that world. And yet in the years since SWG's heyday, MMOs have pushed me away from formal roleplaying once again with mechanics and frustrations and contradictory goals. At best, my roleplaying now takes the form of respect for other roleplayers, in not breaking character where it might be annoying, and in selecting gear and names and planning backstory more than in participating in whatever epic plot my server's RPers are weaving. It still feels like roleplaying in my head. But is it? Without stepping too far into Storyboard territory, we're wondering today how you define roleplaying. Would you consider each stage of a roleplayer's evolution equally valid, or does it only "count" when you're actively participating? How do you express your RP in modern MMOs? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Should MMO studios outsource their communities?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    08.08.2013

    If you played MMOs at the dawn of the genre, you'll recall that player forums were not considered a mandatory feature of a studio's infrastructure. Many communities resorted to wild, offensive, private forums in an attempt to avoid heavily moderated official boards that looked more like advertisements than conversations by the time the mods were done with them. (Anyone else remember Crossroads of Britannia? Good times.) Since then, MMO studios have figured out that forums (and their annoying cousins, social media) are highly useful tools for getting information to and feedback from their playerbases. But sometimes it's gone too far; we've criticized studios for posting updates only to social media outlets at the expense of their own native forums. Well, move over, ArenaNet, because Hi-Rez has topped you: Earlier this week, Hi-Rez decided to shut down its games' official forums and move forum discussion and support to Reddit, which upset not only those people whose skin crawls at the idea of participating on Reddit but also Redditors themselves, who proposed (unsuccessfully) that Hi-Rez employees be banned, essentially, for mooching. So what do you think -- should MMO studios outsource or crowdsource their forums, communities, and support to unofficial and potentially toxic private social media venues? Does it signal an industry shift, an insensitive budgetary decision from Hi-Rez, or a genuine desire to go where the perceived population density is highest? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Do you skip quest text in MMOs?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    08.02.2013

    I heard an odd complaint in the Massively offices this week: One of our writers was annoyed with Guild Wars 2 because it isn't delivering enough backstory through regular gameplay and normal questing. He couldn't figure out what was happening in the plot and didn't want to have to hunt down an out-of-game wiki page or NPC with a prepared info-dumping spiel; he just wanted the basic lore presented during the quest itself from normal quest NPCs. Crazy, right? Why would a designer put lore in quest text? No one reads quest text -- everyone says! Might be it's time to challenge that assumption, especially with games like WildStar with tweetquest philosophies on the horizon. Do you, in fact, skip quest text in MMOs? If you do, would you read it if you knew the text actually mattered to the plot of the game and wasn't just a 500-word essay on why you should kill 10 rats? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: What MMO should be made into a movie?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    07.26.2013

    As MMO gamers, we're far more accustomed to seeing our favorite movie franchises become games than the other way around, but the upcoming World of Warcraft movie might just reverse the trend. Of course, if the Massively commenters are any judge, the WoW movie will be a trainwreck of epic proportions, either because of the source material or because showrunners often prove more likely to misunderstand, insult, bore, or mock geeks rather than dive into geek favorites earnestly. (MMO TV commercials don't inspire us with much confidence, either.) But surely there's some MMO franchise out there that could be done and done right as a movie. MMOs have come to TV in a big way in the form of Defiance, which might not be the best sci-fi of all time but has at least made it to a second season. Shouldn't we embrace our hobby's arrival on the big screen? And if not WoW, what MMO setting would be better for the Hollywood treatment? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Do you genderbend in MMOs?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    07.19.2013

    I've complained about genderlocked classes in MMOs before, but the truth is, genderlocking is abnormal for MMOs. Barring anomalies like Prime World, in which you're required to play a character matching your account's declared gender, most MMOs let us choose, and choose we do. Some people prefer to stick to their own gender with their characters, maybe because they feel more comfortable when roleplaying or don't want to confuse potential teammates on voice chat. Others welcome the chance to don different shoes, possibly motivated by a wish to see the world through new eyes (or cast those eyes on a shapely rear-end... ahem). And players of Cube World (shown in the pic) are thinking the question is silly since there's hardly any difference between the genders anyway, and besides, frogmen. So what about you? Do you roll characters as the gender you identify with in the real world, or do you genderswap? Why do you do what you do, and has it ever caused you any problems or provided a new perspective? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Why do you avoid MMO guilds?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    07.12.2013

    I've been thinking a lot about guilds lately, inspired as I am by Karen Bryan's columns on the subject, and I have to say to all the unguilded people out there -- I don't know how in the world you do it. In this era of bloated perk systems that reward massive guilds for accruing warm bodies and collective achievements, I feel crippled enough in a small guild. I can't even imagine how those of you who shun the politics of guilding get by in MMOs that clearly don't care to incentivize your style of play, and I've found myself longing for the days when the perks of being in a big guild stopped at duh more friends and raids and didn't continue on to free gold, feedback summits, and special quests. So let's poll the Massively community: If you avoid guilds, what's your rationale? What reason is so compelling that you would willingly pass up the free stuff games shower upon favored groups of players? And how do you survive in MMORPGs? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: How do you define hardcore?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    07.05.2013

    Earlier this week, a Massively commenter suggested that a games writer who doesn't raid constantly is by definition casual. Our columnist argued that to a games writer, a raiding endgame is just one kind of gameplay, that she felt obligated to do and write about more than just raiding, and that her considerable ("embarrassing" I believe was the word she used) playtime alone made her hardcore. And some games don't even have raiding to begin with! I found the conversation interesting because it shows that many of us disagree on what terms like casual and hardcore mean. I think hardcore comes in all flavors: hardcore sandboxers like Jef, hardcore PvPers like Patrick, hardcore roleplayers like Eliot, even hardcore traders like me. There are even hardcore dabblers, who turn trying out new games into an 80-hour-a-week endeavor. But today, we're asking you -- how do you define "hardcore"? Is it about breadth vs. depth? Time invested? A specific, arbitrary activity? Honorable kills? Or do we use the terms merely to minimalize others -- is it time to retire these words in a genre so enormous? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: What's the sneakiest cash-shop trick in MMO land?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    06.28.2013

    Casino chain Harrah's could teach MMO cash shops a thing or two. The casino famously employs a complicated system of tracking and metrics to estimate when precisely an individual losing player will walk away from a gambling game... and right before that predicted moment arrives, employees swoop in with complimentary food and free currency to encourage the loser to stick around (and lose more, of course). I don't know of any MMOs that use this exact trick, but they certainly could. An MMO could easily track how many mobs you're willing to kill for a drop or how many lockboxes you're willing to buy before you stop playing and stop buying altogether, then trigger a drop custom-tailored for you just to keep you around. The thought of it is a little creepy but not entirely unwelcome after all the Dragon Chests I've opened to no avail lately. That day is not yet upon us, so today, we're wondering just what is the sneakiest cash-shop trick in MMO land? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: How complex is too complex for MMOs?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    06.21.2013

    I'm a huge fan of isometric clickers like Diablo, Torchlight, and Titan Quest, so I admit to being secretly pleased when pseudo-MMOs like Path of Exile were approved for coverage on Massively. In fact, I jumped into Path of Exile this past weekend to give it another spin. And as soon as my new character got her first skill point, I gleefully clicked over to the skill panel, only to be confronted with the game's notorious and glorious SKILL TREE TO END ALL SKILL TREES. It's not even a skill tree. It's a skill maze. A skill constellation. A skill galaxy. The screenshot above isn't even half of what's available. It's overwhelming at level 2 to say the least. I like complexity in character development, but I had forgotten how over-the-top Path of Exile really was, and I had to wonder whether this sort of complexity-dump scares off newcomers to the genre, or indeed, whether it's intended to scare them off, convince them the game is harder-core than they are, or possibly just entrap them with poor early game decisions. Doesn't the skill avalanche just drive gamers to tab out and look up guides, and is that really the best idea for retaining brand-new players? How complex is too complex for MMOs and pseudo-MMOs? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Are petitions to resurrect MMOs a waste of time?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    06.14.2013

    We've received several tips over the last few weeks about a petition players are circulating in the hopes of resurrecting NCsoft's ill-fated MMO shooter Tabula Rasa. Even Richard Garriott himself tweeted about the campaign. But inside the Massively virtual offices, most of us just shrugged sadly. We've seen how these petitions go. Every once in a while, a sunsetted game returns from the dead, but MMO players are awash in petitions for games that never came back. Just ask the 21,845 gamers who signed the Save City of Heroes petition last autumn. So what do you think -- are petitions to resurrect or save MMOs a waste of time? Or do you sign them anyway, just in case there's a tiny chance they might work? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: What must E3 deliver to MMO fans this year?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    06.07.2013

    The 2013 Electronic Entertainment Expo kicks off next week, and Massively will be on the show floor feeding opinions and news and videos back to you this year as every year. Our lineup is more than respectable when it comes to upcoming MMOs; we'll be looking at blockbuster MMOs like The Elder Scrolls Online, WildStar, ArcheAge, and Final Fantasy XIV as well as up-and-comers like HEX and Black Gold, just to name a few. But even with a full roster of games to preview, I've worried the last few years that E3 is being eclipsed, at least for MMO fans, by more player-friendly and MMO-friendly venues like PAX. What do you guys think -- am I wrong? What must E3 deliver to MMO fans specifically this year to seem more like a chance for the industry to showcase games in one convenient location and less like an advertising platform for the biggest companies as they trample each other with hype? Bonus question: What, above all else, do you want Massively's attendees to focus on at E3 this year? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Do you use Kickstarter to pre-order MMOs?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    05.31.2013

    In MJ's interview with TUG's Peter Salinas last week, Salinas said that the most interesting thing about the community reveal of Nerd Kingdom's sandbox MMO was just how many people consider Kickstarter to be a pre-order system instead of, you know, a way to kickstart a game they want to see made. This jibes with Massively columnist Brendan Drain's observations earlier this week that "the most popular reward level for video game Kickstarters is almost always the lowest-priced tier that provides a digital copy of the game." I'm so guilty of this. I put exactly as much money into the TUG and Shroud of the Avatar Kickstarter pots as I had to in order to secure myself the cheapest pre-order copy of the games I could, but I didn't chip in for an Android game Kickstarter from a dev who couldn't offer the game .apk in any tier. I don't know whether I feel bad. I want to see the games made, and I willingly pay for my copy; I consider my discount a fair tradeoff for paying them years before I'll download a client. But that's my personal limit: a pittance and a vote of confidence, really. I'm guessing most gamers aren't so fabulously wealthy as to heavily fund indie games even if they wanted to, and those who could do so probably have a lot of other worthy non-gaming causes that take precedence. So do you also take advantage of cheap pre-order tiers on Kickstarter? Do you hunt for the tier with exactly the right combination of swag? Or do you approach each Kickstarter knowing you want to donate a certain amount, regardless of what you get in return? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: When are rollbacks and wipes absolutely necessary?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    05.20.2013

    In the last few weeks, two big games we cover on Massively have been slammed with exploits that have injured their respective economies: Diablo III and Neverwinter. In Diablo III's case, a gold duping bug apparently pumped insane amounts of cash into the economy. Neverwinter's exploits run the gamut from Foundry abuses to negative auction hall bids that don't consume gold to classes that can one-shot bosses making farming trivial. According to these claims, NW exploiters are making off with thousands of real-life dollars when cashing out their ill-gotten funds. In both cases, players called for characters wipes and rollbacks, believing each exploit severe enough to merit a clean slate. But in Diablo III's case, while the studio dealt harshly with the exploiters, the developers disagreed with the need for wipes and do-overs, presumably having concluded that such drastic measures would impact the legit playerbase far more than would a dented economy. Neverwinter, on the other hand, chose to roll back the servers, causing widespread uproar. That brings us to today's question: Which studio was right? How bad does an exploit have to be before character wipes and server rollbacks are absolutely necessary? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Do Kickstarter perks put you off from MMOs?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    05.17.2013

    Last week, drama swirled around Chris Roberts' Star Citizen pseudo-MMO when he announced and then clarified that certain early crowdfunders will receive lifetime insurance on their ships once the game launches. Potential players rightfully worried that such a move could taint the economy and create a special class of characters with pay-to-win perks that place everyone else at a serious disadvantage. MMO players are becoming inured to the idea that Kickstarting a game might land them a poster or tattoo or title or even beta access, but non-cosmetic advantages seem to rile everyone up. It's one thing when Camelot Unchained offers special chat and another altogether when it promises big-time donors their own in-game islands. Then again, without such generous Kickstarter pledges, the games might never be made for the rest of us to play at all, so maybe the trade-off is worth it. What do you think? Does it bother you that gamers with money can buy their way into godhood before a game is even made? Are there Kickstarter perks that put you off from future MMOs? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Should World of Warcraft go free-to-play?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    05.10.2013

    There's only one Western subscription MMO that can stand to lose 1.3 million subs in three months and shrug it off: World of Warcraft. But shrug it off doesn't appear to what Activision-Blizzard is doing. During the investor call that revealed the heavy sub losses, Activision CEO Bobby Kotick acknowledged the changing market and his plans to adapt with speedier content. "It's important to note that the nature of online games has changed," he said, "and [that] the environment [is] becoming far more competitive, especially with free-to-play games." And Blizzard president Mike Morhaime suggested the company is "studying" the comings and goings of players and how to entice former players to return. Well, we don't have to look much further than Star Wars: The Old Republic's recent rejuvenation to figure out that free-to-play is one of the better ways to entice gamers to return (and open their wallets). Surely, Blizzard has to be wondering whether F2P might be a huge boost to the game as it's approaching its ninth birthday later this year. What do you think -- will World of Warcraft eventually go free-to-play, and more importantly, should it? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Do sandboxes overwhelm you?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    05.03.2013

    You've probably heard of the paradox of choice, the idea that the human brain can't really process more than a dozen or so choices at a time under certain circumstances. We get overwhelmed by too many choices, and sometimes we withdraw from choosing altogether. It's not always true -- Ben and Jerry's offers over a hundred flavors and seems to do just fine -- but I wonder whether it's the reason that some MMO gamers just do not get sandboxes. An MMO sandbox dumps you in and is indifferent to what you do next. It won't hold your hand; it won't tell you where to go, what to be, or how to progress. In short, it presents hundreds of choices to you with no guidance and sometimes no context. I love this style of game, but given the sandbox struggles of the past few years, I admit it's potentially a problem. Glitch, for example, shut down in part because players, according to the devs, just didn't know what to do. And how many times have I read that someone quit Skyrim because he'd finished the main questline and thought it was over? But then I'll bump into a blog about how someone spent 300 hours collecting all the cheese in Skyrim to build cheese mountain. Clearly, this problem is not universal. So are you also building cheese mountain? Or do sandboxes overwhelm you with too many choices? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Has an MMO ever implemented your idea?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    04.26.2013

    Earlier this month, Massively's MJ sat down with the City of Steam devs and discovered that you, the Massively readers, had actually influenced one of the game mechanics. Wrote MJ, There is one new feature that was put into game specifically because of Massively fans: jumping! That's right. You made it clear you wanted jumping in game, and the devs listened. Who says you don't have the power to change things? Leaving aside the implication that we spent one of our precious wishes on jumping, I thought this was really cool, and I tried to think of other examples of players coming up with amazing (or not) design ideas that were subsequently implemented in a game. I can think of certain demands that were met in classic MMOs. World of Warcraft is infamous for implementing the most popular player mods as official features, and in more recent news, there are Guild Wars 2's efforts to split reset times for different continents after much player protest. How about you? Has an MMO ever implemented your idea or the ideas of a fellow player? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!

  • The Daily Grind: Do you like moddable MMORPGs?

    by 
    Bree Royce
    Bree Royce
    04.19.2013

    WildStar's announcement this week that closed beta players have already started modding the game's UI to their personal preferences got me wondering once again about whether MMO gamers have been influenced by games like World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic when it comes to acceptance of modding. As recently as last November, when SOE outlawed all mods in PlanetSide 2 -- including benign mods that enhanced graphics and FPS -- our commenters seemed split over whether mods were a good thing. One, who specifically singled out Diablo III and Guild Wars 2 as key offenders, argued that developers' "play it how we made it because we know best" attitude stifles player freedom. Another wrote that on the contrary, Guild Wars 2's anti-mod approach was the right one; he liked that everyone is made to play with the same interface because "the fact [that] you almost need different UIs and addons for endgame in WoW" is a turn off. So let's take this topic's current temperature: Do you like moddable MMORPGs? Why or why not? Every morning, the Massively bloggers probe the minds of their readers with deep, thought-provoking questions about that most serious of topics: massively online gaming. We crave your opinions, so grab your caffeinated beverage of choice and chime in on today's Daily Grind!