The Engadget Interview: Tom Burick, CEO of White Box Robotics
posted November 29th 2004 1:00PM
Veteran journalist J.D. Lasica caught up with Thomas J. Burick, CEO of White Box Robotics of Youngwood, Penn., at the RoboNexus trade show in Santa Clara, Calif., last month. As robots whirled by on the floor, Burick talked about robots coming down in price to the consumer level, battling PCs for supremacy in the home, and why he didn't care for "I, Robot." Before we get into White Box Robotics, tell me about the field. Robotics has come a long way in the past few years.
It really has. I've been working on the 9-series robot for the past five years. Quite honestly I started out by thinking about applying computer parts to robotics in some way because computer boards are so cheap and plentiful, I thought, If we could take them and apply that to personal robots and mobile robots, oh boy. I actually started doing mockups of the robot's body in 3D and then graduated into several laser-type chassis. That took five years of refinement and then working with our production partner. We've come a long way.
A new U.N. report says that 607,000 automated domestic helps were in use at the end of 2003. It seems that the most popular robots purchased by consumers perform manual tasks like yardwork or vacuuming the floors as well as educate or entertain.
Actually, our robots are suitable for any of those applications. There are many commercial applications for our
platform, especially security. Commercial security, homeland security, and home security on a consumer level, including
facial recognition. With service robots, you could program the robot to run errands. We're not producing the robot for
one specific application, we're a producer of mobile robotic platforms. We turn them over to customers and other
companies and they take it from there, adding their own special electronics and software.
Give me a quick backgrounder on White Box Robotics.
Sure. I started the company five years ago. We've been a formal company for about two years. We have six employees. I
have a 1,500-square-foot lab and an office facility at the University of Pittsburgh Applied Research Center.
Tell me about some of the robots in your exhibit today.
The basic robot is the 912 (pictured above), the silver one that's been running around on the floor. You can see some
wild, over-the-top concepts in our booth, demonstrating that if you get one of these robots, these are very real things
that you can do. Our 912 Apache military concept has the robot sitting in the back of a giant ATV [a Suzuki 500 Vinson
provided by Bike World Motor Sports of Sunnyvale, Calif., pictured below]. I actually gave one of my robots to my
friends at TransEffects, a Hollywood movie prop studio that does concept cars for General Motors and other
manufacturers, and I said, "Guys, here's a 912, this is what I want. I want tank treads, I want military, I want a lot
of weapons." I didn't know what to expect, and this showed up the morning before the show. They did an incredible
job.
Then there's the 912 MP3 robot (pictured at right). It's a multimedia
robot that's a mobile DJ of sorts. You can download MP3s off the Internet, and the robot can roll around at your next
party and play MP3s through its built-in satellite subwoofer system. It's got a DVD movie screen on the back and a
PC-based graphic equalizer. You can burn CDs. It's all off-the-shelf computer parts.
That's coming out in the first quarter of 2005?
Yes. We're in the home stretch after five years of development.
What's it cost?
The bare-bones platform is gonna come in right around $799. For that you get the differential drive system, you get
the IO card that controls the motors and the sensors, you get the full chassis and the body panels. From there, you add
the motherboard of your choice. You can add a laptop hard drive, a CD-ROM drive and CD burner, and cheap Webcams, and
you have a fully functioning robot. We chose to do it that way because the PC and robotics enthusiasts really expressed
the idea that maybe I don't want a 20-gig drive, maybe I want a 120-gig drive, or half a gig of RAM instead of
128.
The DIY platform as an initial platform made a lot of sense because we can get it in the hands of enthusiasts and they
can get it out however they want. It's important to note that we designed the platform to let people cut, drill, paint
— it's a far larger blank canvas than a PC, especially for the mod crowd. It's DIY, do-it-yourself. At all costs, I
want to avoid the word "kit," because it sounds like a toy or model and these are very serious, real robots.
Are there functionalities that all the DIY robots have in common?
On a basic level, you can still do a lot with the robot. Right out of the box, the robot can pretty effectively guard
your house, with object recognition. Telepresence is a big one, too: connect the robot into your wireless network at
home and you can access the robot while you're away. You can check on the house, check on your parents, check on your
child or dog. Did you leave the iron on? Send the robot into the room to find out. It has speech synthesis and speech
recognition as well.
I didn't think we were at a point where facial recognition really worked.
It works reasonably well. I was actually surprised. We use the Evolution Robotics RCC software, the application
program to control the robot, and I took several shots of my face, and the robot caught me from the side and it was
still able to recognize me. In all fairness, it's not perfect, but it's fairly accurate, more than you might
think.
As far as commercial applications, I could see these robots used in a warehouse. A company might be tempted to
replace its security guards, in theory.
Absolutely. They make very inexpensive, almost disposable security guards. A lot of the robots on the market, you're
talking a $40,000 to $60,000 price tag. But with the 912 series, you can build one of these things for a few thousand
dollars. A security robotics company could approach us and purchase our platform to do inexpensive security robots, and
you've got a couple of thousand dollars tied up in one. So what if one of them falls down a flight of stairs or someone
cracks a chair over its head? It's not a major loss on investment.
And companies can recoup their costs fairly fast.
That's exactly it. Robots don't show up drunk, they never call in sick.
Do you have any robots at home?
More than you could ever imagine. They're all through my entire house. All through my office. I always tell people the
story of how all the other kids in kindergarten were making clay ashtrays, I was making clay robots. I've got a
collection from kindergarten on up, so they're in every cupboard and corner of the house.
Functioning ones, too?
Yes. I have one of our robots guarding the house. I use the robot vacuum on a routine basis in my house and in the
lab. Plus, there are the toys I always play with, from a voice-activated R2D2 to robots from "Lost in Space."
Do you see robots replacing home PCs for some tasks?
Pretty effectively. Our robot will do anything your home computer will do: Internet access, word processing, PC
gaming, plus it's a real robot besides. I think the PC has already been replaced.
In what sense?
Why would you buy a PC when you could have one of these robots that would do all the functions of a PC? I can check my
email, I can do all those office applications. But I can also program it to wake me up in the morning. I can program it
to guard my house. In that sense, the PC's already been replaced.
Have you licensed your technology to anyone?
We've had considerable interest, but because we're releasing our first product in the first quarter of 2005, we're in
the middle of that. A number of companies have talked with us about doing an OEM.
This seems like a pretty big trade show for such a young industry. This is the largest one. There
have been smaller ones around the country. The shows are bigger in Japan, but there has never been a trade show for
robotics on this scale in the United States. It shows the interest is there.
Where do you see the field heading five years down the road?
I think within the next five years you're going to see just an explosion of robotic products entering the marketplace.
In the early to mid-1980s, there was a robotics revolution, but the technology just wasn't there yet. The manufacturers
made promises they couldn't keep, and the whole market did a crash and burn. I think we're at a point where there are
real technologies we've been working on for the past 20 years, and there are real viable technologies going into these
robotics. And so I think our second time around — our second revolution — will have real staying power.
Did you see "I, Robot"?
No, I didn't see it, and I'll tell you why. Robots really have gotten a bad rap from Hollywood, and it just reinforces
the fears people have from the 1950s movies, where the robot breaks in and kills a whole crowd of people. That remains
an underlying fear: that robots are going to harm us or take over. So that was my way to rebel, by not seeing the
movie.
So robots are our friends.
They're absolutely our friends. That's how I see it.
J.D. Lasica is the author of the upcoming book Darknet: Remixing the Future of Entertainment.
This guy is paranoid enough to have a robot stalking his house, yet doesn't want to look at a movie (given it's a B movie) based on a collection of short stories by the guy (Isaac Asimov) who coined the term Robot? WTF.
kudos to the eds for the caption above the pic of Tom going mano a mano with the bot.
Wow...its all there..time to get it all together..if someone is doing it and getting it to masses great show..congrats...by reading this simple interview i am so impressed that me going back to where i had stoped..i am making one for myself...shall blog it soon
I think robots are great and I love the technologies and how they're converged to create such a device, but robots have NOT replaced the computer, and never will.
I could see desktops going away someday, but laptops never will. People will always need screen real estate, people will always need keyboards to silently communicate and to interface with computers, and people will always need the portability, form factor, and features that laptops provide.
You can't toss a robot into a backpack and head out. No one is going to set a small robot on top of their desk - that would just look stupid, take up too much space, and would be completely unfitting. And some people may ask, "Why would you have to place it atop your desk?". Well, how else are you going to view what you're typing or doing on its built-in screen? Are you going to sit on the floor and stare into it like he's doing in the photo above? No, you'd have to set it on top of your desk, which, once again, would be ridiculous. If the robot doesn't have a built-in monitor, you're going to have plug one into the robot, which means the robot wouldn't be able to move about because it would be tethered to a monitor, so what would be the point in buying a robot then? Are we supposed to wait for wireless monitors? And how would that work? You're not going to see students, employees, and people in general at Starbucks whipping their little robots out of their bags to finish up some homework or emails. People aren't going to be surfing the net, and working on Photoshop files on a robot. Robots naturally have computing power and could be used for different computing tasks, but only in very specific circumstances and environments - there are things to consider here. When making statements like "Robots will/have replace(d) the PC!", you have to take into consideration what that implies, along with form factor, looks, portability, interface, and "dork" factor. When you finally take into account all those things, it's crystal clear that robots will NEVER replace the PC. To think so is not visionary, it's ridiculous.
He states that, in addition to performing some of the same tasks a PC performs, robots have replaced the PC because a robot can protect his home and wake him up in the morning. I don't get it. What does that mean? First of all, with the right equipment, a PC can absolutely protect and monitor a person's home, and I'm sure could handle waking someone up in the morning. But just because a PC isn't designed to do that merely on it's own without additional hardware, or function as a bedside alarm clock, how does that serve as a valid argument for robots replacing PCs?
People always want to think that technologies/devices are going to replace the PC, but they just never will. These people never consider that new devices are meant to compliment what we already have, not just replace everything. Certain needs can only be met by PCs/laptops, which will not be met by robots or Pocket PCs, or smartphones, or anything else. And those needs are never going to go away. The PC will continue to evolve (as will robots), but as much as love robotics, the PC will NEVER be replaced.
The desktop PC as we have known it for over 20 years is slowly going away. People buying machines aren't purchasing 3.4Ghz machines, because unless you're into some serious gaming they provide little benefit. Email, web surfing, chatting just don't benefit from the additional speed. Laptops are already replacing the traditional desktop PC - why buy a destop when for alittle more I can get a portable machine that I can move from room to room.
Maybe you could buy a robot docking station. If you want to use it as a tradional computer at home - tell the thing to dock. All the dock would need is power, VGA signal and possibly USB for convenience - instant desktop machine.
As far as the Sturbucks thing another option is a removable core that you plug into a "laptop" unit. IBM demonstrated this technology a couple of years ago. Basically you have a processing core that you plug into a laptop frame, pda frame or desktop frame. Why couldn't a robot be just another frame?
Thinking the tradional PC won't be replace is short sighted. Heck if they created PDA's with port replicators the PDA could have been a desktop replacement for a lot of people.
We just need people to think outside the box or case in this dicussion.
TheFlew - Keep in mind that some of my comments are in response not only to yours, but many of them are also in response to what I've heard others say about the PC.
I hear what you're saying, and as I mentioned before, I could see desktops eventually fading - laptops are becoming so powerful anymore and the screens are becoming so big - there is largely no need for a desktop anymore - at least from a technological standpoint. But much of why people use desktops has to do with cost, modularity, and upgradeability, not always a lack of desire for advanced portable technology.
But when I use the term "PC/laptop", as for right now, I'm referring to both desktops and laptops, but ultimately laptops and however they evolve, as I think laptops are slowly but surely replacing desktops, and will ultimately be the dominant PC form one day - so keep that in mind as you read. Truthfully, a laptop is just the desktop evolved - just as powerful (with the right model, and sometimes even more capable), but portable.
But to think that PC/laptops as well will be replaced is just silly to me. Why would anyone think that a PC/laptop would be replaced instead of simply evolving? I think too many people rush to make statements like "the PC/laptop will be replaced!", without really having an idea as to how they think this will truly happen, simply because they're trying to come across to others and themselves as really progressive thinkers. PCs will continue to evolve, but they will not be replaced. As I said before, as powerful as laptops have become (take a look at a Sager 9860, for example), they're really just the evolution of the traditional desktop PC. Robots and PDAs are not going to replace PCs/laptops. They serve their own distinct purposes. PCs/laptops will continue to evolve and meet peoples' needs, as they grow in power, decrease in thickness and weight, and grow in features and capability.
You say people aren't buying the higher GHz machines. What makes you think that? I understand what you're saying about the benefits of speed in relation to tasks, but as far as PCs/laptops are concerned, different people have different needs, and many people are purchasing these systems for more than just gaming. There are many different CPU intensive tasks out there in the media, entertainment, financial, manufucturing, medical, scientific, and space industries, and just industry in general. If what I'm saying isn't true, and people truly aren't purchasing these systems as you suggest, then I guess Intel and AMD better pack their bags and go home, because there's no need for evolution in that department, and they're not making much money from their efforts because people simply are not buying them. Is that what you're suggesting?
Also, just because you think a PDA (which I also think are great devices) might serve the needs of some as a primary computer, does not mean that they're positioned to replace PCs/laptops either. That's a bit misguided. How does a person load software onto a PDA without a PC/laptop? PDAs are meant to compliment PCs/laptops, not replace them or be wholly independent of them. A PC/laptop meets needs that a PDA or robot simply will not. Does anyone think that people are going to carry around nothing but little PDAs with HDDs, port replicators, external DVD/CD/RW drives (because those are necessary at times and you can't fit those inside a PDA), external keyboards, and maybe bigger flat screens (because trying to work with Photoshop and surf the net and anything else you can think of, on a 4" or smaller screen is going to be impossible or a real drag after awhile)? And what do you have there, after all that? The components that make up a PC/laptop? Does anyone think that people in industry and society in general are really going to toss out their PCs/laptops in favor of using robots as their computers? There may be a few who do, but to suggest that there will be some mass exodus one day even from laptops in favor of robots and whatever else (which I've heard people say), is just silly fantasy. Sorry, PCs/laptops are not going to be replaced. That's not short sighted - that's planet Reality.
As far as frames are concerned, sure, maybe a robot could be another frame, but the whole point of frames is about modularity and flexibility between PCs/laptops and whatever else someone could design to work as a frame, otherwise, why buy into it? It's not a replacement strategy for PCs/laptops, which is what we're discussing. Besides, when it comes down to it, what would be the need for a "computer" to be on wheels, anyway? We have something better - it's called "laptops".
I'm all for the evolution of robotics, but let's view that application of technology for what it is. And people need to think about how people in industry and in general work with computers. Are you going to sit on a couch or in your bed with a robot in your lap or next to you and work away? Are you going to do this on an airplane? In your car? Making ridiculous statements about how robots are going to replace a rooted technology like PC's/laptops is just misguided. People said that the computer was going to replace the TV, too. Yeah, right.
Robotics will play more of a part in peoples' homes as time goes on, but it will compliment PCs/laptops - it won't replace them.
I agree that robots will add to the home infotainment mix, and not displace PCs.
Meantime, Wayne in Taiwan offers another robotic PC design that takes a different approach. He's now working on a prototype:
http://funkycoldamoeba.blogspot.com
-- the writer
Do you want to see a man get irrationally crazy and violent? Take his desktop. I dont think laptops are replacing anything. Thanks, kids.
LOL, you may very well be right. Maybe there will always be a need/desire for desktops.
I think computers will just continue to evolve. But as I mentioned before, it wouldn't surprise me if laptops became the dominant form in the near future.
But this wasn't about whether laptops would replace desktops. This discussion was about Tom Burick thinking that ROBOTS would replace PCs.
Azamov didn't coin the term robot.
Grrr neither did Azimov for that matter. (It was a typo folks, don't freak out.)
I think some of you are missing the point... this robot... IS a PC... and a ROBOT. Under your desk with a keyboard, mouse and monitor attached to the easily accessible and STANDARD PC board connectors on the the PC-Bot (just like the PC chassis under your desk/table right now) it functions as the traditional PC.
Now you are finished emailing your friend (or any other Windows/Linux application you are using) and you get up, disconnect your peripherals and the robot follows you out into the livingroom playing your favorite Winamp play list.
Or it sits in front of the door waiting to email you a picture to your office computer of the first motion/intruder it detects.
The point being that it could do both if you wanted. All you would need to do is add the standard... easy/cheap wireless card... and not have to be a robotics wizard, just the same PC savvy user you already are!
As for looking stupid... the white 912 would look better under my family room table than a beige tower ever did. Its a matter of taste.
And I bet your kid would much rather find a 912 under the Christmas tree than a beige box!
Merry Christmas,
Tim
No Tim, we're not missing the point. A robot can function as a PC. We get it. Trust me!
The point we were discussing here is that robots will not REPLACE PCs. Some people out there at some point will indeed utilize robots as their primary computers, but the masses will not.
For instance, portable computing power is getting more and more important to people out there, which is why laptops are becoming more and more popular and why they enjoy such a healthy market. This was part of my reason for conveying my belief that they'll be the dominant computing form by outselling desktops.
Robots will never be portable like this, supporting my position that robots will not replace computers. Of course, this part of the argument hinges on a focus on laptops. But even with desktop PCs, who would want to have to plug and unplug peripherals to and from a robot everyday? Way too inconvenient, and most people would not and will not - and without doing that, then there's no reason to have a "PC on wheels". Most people also do not need a "rolling PC" to follow them around the house everywhere. And how would other people in the family get any work done if their PC was missing because it was following another family member around the house? Not to mention, if a robot were to replace someone's PC, it would only serve as a replacement for towers - it wouldn't replace other traditional systems that reside on a desk, and it wouldn't replace computers in the enterprise regardless of form.
As for taste and looks, well, MANY people mod their PCs to make them look however they want them to. A lot of flexibility there, and I'd bet a lot more with a PC than with a robot - PC cases are pretty standardized, so they're easy to mod, but it's going to be awhile before we see that flexibility with robot casings. The bottom line with a PC, is that you can ultimately do whatever you want. But PCs are looking much better than they ever have, and people can buy modded PCs, so for most, the looks of a robot are not going to serve as enough of a reason to abandon a PC. For some, it might, but not for most.
Robots can function like a PC, but there are just too many reasons why the idea of them replacing PCs simply is not realistic. Reread the posts above - you'll see more reasons in addition to the ones I've mentioned here as to why, cool or not, they just simply won't become a primary PC for most people. Robots have a dedicated purpose, and they'll simply add to, not replace, what we already have.
Adding robotic capability on to a PC can be compare to adding sound card to a PC. At the time, nobody expect PC with a simple sound card to replace stereo systems. Later, sound card had become an integral part of many software application, not just listening to music. The fact is PC with a good sound card can do a whole lot more than PC without. PC with robotic capability may face similar fate. If robotic PC is indeed a trend, we may see more software application that requires PC with robotic functions. (But there is a catch-22 to overcome.) Robotic functions gives software developers an additional variable to create a more dynamic PC experience. The ERSP 3.0 of Evolution Robotics may be the leading bandwagon. PC with sound card had already replaced many PC without. PC with good sound card may also have replace those lousy stereo boom boxes that used to be so common. WiFi and many other factors enable PC to be robotic. The perception is, PC is already very versatile and useful as an appliance. What would users gain from adding robotic functions to a PC? Very few dares to say "nothing" to that question. Who knows what the future of PC will be like. May be one day, Microsoft will realize that adding robotic functionalities to PC is the only way to sell more operating systems.
I hear what you're saying, but I can't agree that adding a sound card to a PC is the best analogy for why you may think that PC's are going to morph into robots.
A PC needs a sound card because sound is integral to the whole PC experience. But just because a device can perform certain tasks, isn't to say that it will replace something else. In other words, just because a robot can operate as a PC, doesn't mean it will replace PCs. It doesn't mean that we'll all be packing little robots in our backpacks or that they'll be residing on our desktops. And I don't know of anyone personally who has replaced their stereo with a PC - they could do it, but they haven't.
Robotic technologies are designed to enhance what we already have, not replace PCs. There will always be people who will venture in that direction, but I do not believe that the masses will. It wouldn't be practical for so many people for the reasons I've listed in my posts above.
I think robots are fantastic... I love robotics, but I'm trying to be realistic about all of this, too.
Robotic PC aims to replace ordinary PC, that is only a marketing goal, not a prediction that meant to be taken absolutly. It just seemed a bit ambitious. Personally I believe such replacement-trend will be rather limited at best. Also, if you agree that sound is an integral part of the PC experience, (along with speaker and microphone) Next, more and more PC are connected to all sorts of webcam/cameras. Suddenly, PC had become an ideal device that captures and play back all sorts of image and sound, but the speaker, microphone and camera isn't always optimally positioned to capture/playback the best signt and sound. In order to solve this problem, the PC needs to be robotic. Only a robotic PC can dynamically position itself to point and effectly capture/playback both sight/sound.
Yes, I hear what you're saying about dynamic positioning for video and audio, but once again, that would serve a very limited application/environment and how many people would ever require that? Even advanced security systems (where I could see this might apply) don't require robots for dynamic positioning.
What my points have focused on is overall computing tasks and how robots will not serve as PC replacements.
The evolution of robots has been much predicted but slow to materialize. We're hearing about (electronic) robots since the 50's when ENIAC was first created. But Artificial Intelligence has been slow to develop, and present day robots cannot yet do things which small kids can do.
As much as I like what Mr. Burick is doing, he's still got a long way to go. This is just a fancy PC on wheels. But its a step forward.
Security can be more cheaply and conveniently done by hooking up a lot of cameras. I would prefer if the robot could do some useful physical task like picking things up and moving them around the house or workplace, making beds, cooking meals, stuff like that.
Also, I don't think this will replace PCs/laptops. Maybe desktops will become obsolete, but we will always need something in their place. Laptops, PDAs, cellphones, credit card sized computers, wall-sized screens hooked up to the Internet - the PC is going to evolve into a lot of things.