The BBC weighs in on why the Segway fell short of its hype
posted Apr 11th 2005 12:30AM
Okay, so we're kind of missing the part where it's surprising that something so hyped by inventor and spinmaster extrordinaire Dean Kamen (and subsequently Jobs and Bezos, if you recall) as the Segway fell short of its expectations to instantly change the world and the way we look at transportation. Don't get us wrong, we love 'em to death, but that Segway's UK distributor has only ever sold between 30 and 50 machines (which they attribute to a law which makes using one on the street, but not the sidewalk, illegal) is surely sour grapes—maybe it's got a bit more to do with the fact that they're still very pricey, and most people seem to feel (and look) like dorks riding them? Beats us. Still, an average price of £2,800 (about $5,300) is seriously harsh to deal with when they go for less than half that out here.
Actually, those things are a kick to ride. Here in Chicago they offer lakefront and museum tours on them from their Jackson Avenue store. They are amazingly intuitive (in the true sense of the word), and a lot of fun.
As for the price, I'd like to know where to get one for "less than half that". They're still a full $5000 for the main model from a Segway store. If they could drop the price to $1000-2000, they'd be amazing in dense areas such as downtown or colleges.
Something is also seriously odd about that photo - they aren't that large relative to a person. Looks like the person was shrunk by 20%.
It's mainly about the money - esp. for something which doesn't go that fast.
Plus, how can you even get a Segway in Australia??
Kap
I was thinking of getting one. The Centaur concept model looks like it would take better. People really just want a low cost, quiet, low pollution method of transport. But for this price, and at its crappy MPH, a fuel cell scooter might be a better solution.
In the future, pop culture historians will look at the Segway as a symbol representing the post-dotcom, turn-of-the-millennium era of technology, something or whatever. It uses an interesting technology in a rather pointless manner.
I see the Segway as representing quite well what a crappy decade this has been so far.
I would rather ride a bike ($150) than a segway ($5000). It simply isn't affordable for normal people. But it would be a good replacement for golf carts though.
I think John Yahoo-XP com (no relation) nailed it. Segways just aren't better than bicycles, and they cost a lot more.
I could see them being very useful for disabled people indoors, but aside from that, what's the point?
Although I love the Segway for its novelty value, I've never been quite clear about whether it's been positioned as a bike-alternative (in which case it offers very little benefit against its higher cost of ownership, weight and complexity), or as a walking-alternative. The markets and targets are very different.
In the latter case, speed of travel and effortlessness are clear benefits, but $5000 is a big barrier and practical issues, like where you leave it when you get to the supermarket, get in the way.
I can see it working better in closed environments, like corporate and university campuses, but even here I would be puzzled about the cost/benefit advantage over the good old bike.
A lot of the issues that arose around the Sinclair C5 (which also famously bombed) come to mind with the Segway. That doesn't stop me from wanting one, though!
Er, you've got your British/American translation confused. The BBC article says that Segways are only legal on the street, not the sidewalk, but you have that backwards in your paraphrase "which they attribute to a law which makes using one on the street, but not the sidewalk, illegal".
Indeed, the photo my wife took of one on Regent Street shows it on the road, where it belongs. (Anyone who's ever battled around the entrances to Oxford Circus tube station will know there's barely room for all the pedestrians, let alone stupidly overpriced bits of technological gee-gaw.)
Bruce is clearly thinking what I'm thinking re the Sinclair C5. This was an electric vehicle that was supposed to change the face of transport in the mid eighties. When it was launched, it was rubbish and nowhere near the hype. I actually saw one yesterday in a museum, and had a little chuckle to myself.
The only Segway I've seen in London was being ridden by some middle aged Japanese character down Picadilly. He did look rather foolish!
To the chap above who thinks the person in the picture looks too small: most Brits are 20% smaller than most Americans. That's why it looks odd!
It's just too expensive in any parts of the world, period.
How can they say between 30 and 50. I can see immediately where their business plan went wrong if all there inventory is so imprecise.
I firmly believe that the world would be a better place if cities were designed with devices like these in mind. Theoretically, everything you ever needed could be located within two miles. Will that happen within 10 years, 20 years, or even 100 years? Probably not.
BTW, I have test-driven a Segway HT. They really are as cool as they appear to be. :-)
> most Brits are 20% smaller than most Americans
In width and in lbs of ass
Okay... why do people think these things are "cool"? When I first saw a demonstration and people riding around on these ridiculous things, I literally doubled over in laughter. They're ugly, dorky, and too slow to serve any useful purpose... I can walk faster than these things. There are better options out there, i.e. legs.
I would absolutely purchase one of these under two conditions:
1. Battery life / range were incread by 25% at least
2. Price was decreased by 50%.
There are lots of trips I take that are slightly too far to walk, and I hate to drive them...
I agree that it was seriously over-hyped. But, if the company can survive long enough to bring its costs down, I think they've got a shot.
"I would absolutely purchase one of these under two conditions"
Just be warned: People like me will laugh and throw rocks at you.
Even though I still fail to see the point and despite the fact that you not only look like a dork riding one of those ("oh, how cute, does it come with a matching helmet?") but also would get killed if you rode a Segway in downtown traffic, I would probably still get one. Just for shits and giggles. IF, and that's a big IF, they were around $250. And that's just not realistic.
Why $250? Because that's how much I'm generally willing to spend on an item that I utterly and completely do not need but that looks like fun (motorcycles excluded).
Although this is just a thought, are they actually legal on UK roads? My understanding is that motorised vehicles need headlights, indicators, etc.
I believe it doesn't matter if they significantly drop the price, these things make people look geeky when used in the real world.
Just try to imagine yourself driving this thing to the local store in your neighberhood. How many people are you going to tolerate honking their horn at you and laughing at how stupid you look on that thing?
It's great tech, and it looks like it's fun to ride, but they forgot to apply the "it makes me look dorky" test.
I think the biggest downside to the thing is that it NEEDS POWER to work. With all the talk that Kamen was working on a variety of alternate fuel engines (Sinclair, etc) I was expecting we'd see some sort of personal transport that USED these new technologies.
Then on the morning of the release, there's a two wheel scooter that stands on its own. I was really impressed! Then I realized it had a battery and needed to be charged, and I was completely UNimpressed. A friggin Razor scooter is $40 and I dont have to plug it in, and it folds up so I can throw it in a bag. Why would anyone want to pay $5000 for the same thing, only the wheels are parallel and you have to charge it or else you're stuck?
The whole thing just seems like a really poor application of good technology - the fact that it stands on its own is neat, ut I hate that it still requires a charge, What the hell do you do if you get stuck somewhere with no power?
Blah.
Nobody is addressing the real question here. How many points do I get when I hit someone on a Segway?
Are they spy enough to warrant 500 points? The damage vs. cost ratio would be very high, maybe even 1000 points! Wow, I'd only have to hit 100 and I'd get a free life!
I think it was said best in this article:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.com/c.cgi?u=segway_more_complicated_than_it_needs_to_be
To te people who think it's geeky and people will laugh, having been on one in downtown Chicago, that's certainly not the case. While you may laugh, the vast majority of people have never seen one and just sit there and watch in amazement.
Back to practicality, that is the problem. Here I am, someone who clearly enjoyed using it, a techie, and obvious target for this thing. However, I don't have any use for it (I live in the suburbs - it would take 15-20 minutes to get to my corner grocery store at 12mph), and it's just too expensive.
Now, as to that ride to the grocery store - if it could carry more items easily (it's obviously capable, based on the golf-cart version) and the price was more reasonable, then it could be very useful for short trips to the supermarket, local household needs, etc.
The final problem with the Segway is it's not immediately apparent why it's such an impressive thing. Sure, we all know the tech behind it, but until you actually ride one, you just don't get it - trust me on that. Sadly, not many areas offer the tours yet or any way to experience them. In Chicago, they do, and they're working on rentals (although the logistics have to be nightmarish). The good news is I think they are selling well enough to stay afloat, and their new golf-cart model should do very well (much more compact and convenient than a cart, at a similar price). I'll be interested in seeing if Segway corrects some of these problems and makes market headway over the years.
To get all pedantic, in the UK the Segway isn't actually legal anywhere. It's too fast to be a disability vehicle (and doesn't have the lights, indicators and horn), it doesn't have pedals so it can't be classed as an electric bike, and it's not got Type Approval, so it can't even be registered as a moped - though you could do the Type Approval yourself, and wear the moped helmet.
The only things you can legally use on the pavement (sidewalk) in the UK are disabled vehicles with a max speed of 4mph.
I love the Segway - it's an absolute hoot to ride - but practical transport? No way...
Yes, I think that the Segway definitely revives memories in the British public of the C5 but just a comment about the Sinclair C5's pricing: it was only 400 pounds in 1985, that's about 775 pounds in today's money or around US$1500. Even then, people thought it was expensive, so a Segway is just way out there in my opinion.
Errr... why is this sour grapes from the BBC? They're just reporting fact.
You got the translation into American wrong - its illegal to use on the pavement (i.e. where people walk - what you call the sidewalk) becuase its not an wheelchair/old-person buggy etc. It cant be used on the road (i.e. where the cars go) because it doesn't have headlights lights, indicators (turn signals to americans) or adequate brakes, is too slow and it also doesn't have a registration plate.
As a pedestrian I dont want to see these on the pavement as I reckon one of these hitting you is going to bloody hurt (this is why technically pedal bikes are not allowed on apvement as well). As a road user I dont want to see these on the road either as they are too slow and wide and have no lights etc - it will only be a matter of time before you run someone down at night because you cant seem them then YOU'RE the bad guy because you evil polluting car killed some idiot who was driving around in the pitch black on some eco friendly (ha!) thing.
"I would absolutely purchase one of these under two conditions"
"Just be warned: People like me will laugh and throw rocks at you."
ok, so maybe he'd have three conditions
"...the world would be a better place if cities were designed with devices like these in mind. Theoretically, everything you ever needed could be located within two miles. Will that happen within 10 years, 20 years, or even 100 years? Probably not."
In the U.S. ? LATER rather than sooner. Try Japan...it's that way now. One simple thing they've done there is to have larger sidewalks, and the bike lane is actually up on it so bikes share space with pedestrians instead of cars. Kinda makes sense...all involved are more likely to survive Bike vs. Pedestrian than in Bike vs. Car. But I think the Segway would integrate rather well into that scheme being somewhere between a bike and a pedestrian. Although as far as I know it hasn't really taken off in Japan. Maybe it just needs Twin ceramic rotor drives on each wheel, computer controled anti-lock brakes and 200 hp at 12,000 rpms, a red paint job and some decals...
IMHO, the technology in the Segway is cool and all, but I think I have to agree with 'petro'
"I can walk faster than these things. There are better options out there, i.e. legs."
Except perhaps for the disabled, I can't really think of a time when this thing is better than walking. When I was in Japan, in that nice conveniently laid out environment, I walked basically everywhere I needed to go around town. I lost weight and trimmed down, and overall felt much healthier and (after the first week) more energetic. When I needed to go more than a couple miles I borrowed a bicycle (had I stayed longer I would have purchased one for $50 ~ $100)...and I didn't have to charge it (though I saw plenty of older ladies riding bikes with a little electric assist engine mounted in the frame should the need arise). If I had to go 10+ miles each way, I took a train (which of course I had to walk to). I love cars (in fact I have 3 of them), but during that month...I didn't miss them at all. All in all I think for the vast majority of people, wherever the Segway would serve them well, walking would serve them better (some exceptions do apply...)
"A friggin Razor scooter is $40 and I dont have to plug it in, and it folds up so I can throw it in a bag."
Shoot...the POWERED Razor's (and knockoffs) can be had for under $200 dollars, can accomodate a rider up to 220lbs and run for 1 - 1.5 hours with a top speed of 13mph. Basically the same performance, but without the (dubious) stability control. Given the choice I think the scooter would be more fun than the Seg in almost ANY environment. Oh yeah...
"What the hell do you do if you get stuck somewhere with no power?"
The powered scooters usually allow you to disengage the belt or friction wheel so you can just use it like a regular scooter if it runs outta juice (even at that you could carry them, they way about 20 #'s...the segway weighs over 80...). To bad you can't actually CHARGE the battery Prius style while braking or going downhill.
All in all I think if you want a 'personal transportation revolution', I agree with 'Brian', the fuel cell scooter idea seems more likely to pan out. It can go anywhere a bike can now, and it's fuel cells could be sold in vending machines on every corner...
I certainly would pay $5K for an FC scooter sooner than I would for a Segway...
"I can walk faster than these things."
Err, no, you can't. If the Segway's top speed is around 12MPH, then you're basically saying you can walk a mile in 5 MINUTES, or 17.6 ft. a second. Those are some long strides there, buddy.
To: Technopops
Not sure if you're responding to me since I merely quoted the original post of 'petro', but I'll kick in another $0.02 worth...
'I can walk faster than these things.'
"Err, no, you can't..."
Actually, in high school I ran the 100 meter dash in 13.3 seconds. That's 7.5 meters a second. 12mph is only 5.28 meters per second. So...yes, people (many people probably, I was a fast sprinter in my day but there certainly were faster) can outpace a Segway.
However,
"you're basically saying you can walk a mile in 5 MINUTES"
This I could not do (or at least I never did, some have run 4 minute miles...maybe I could have worked up to ~4:59). I usually only ran a 7 to 7.5 minute mile. But I kinda doubt the Segway maintains top speed throughout the entire run of it's charge either...
So if you're looking at the Segways speed over distance, I'd have to agree with the assertion that one can't REALLY walk faster then it. And not just because I'd probably collapse if I tried to sprint at top speed beyond 150 - 175 meters, but because I can't WALK that fast...I have to RUN :)
(All said in good humor...)
Some good thoughts here. I have a question: In what scenario do you think a Segway is the right answer for most people? In that scenario, what advantages does it offer over a bike?
Reason I'm asking is that I get stuck on these questions. I can picture open campuses/cities with purpose-built Segway tracks and storage/charging points outside shops and the like. But where I come unstuck is in figuring out where the Segway is better than a bicycle. Can it carry bigger loads? Does it keep the rain off? Does it promote a fitter lifestyle? Is it environmentally better than a bicycle? Is it likely to be more accessible (ability to ride, confidence) to a significant proportion of the public?
My limited imagination comes up with 'No' as an answer in every case, and I welcome your assistance!
It's actually quite popular in Nice. I see folks riding Segway up and down the beach walkway all the time. There's a rental place nearby for it.
Considering that the Segway retails for around $5000 US, it would be outrageously inappropriate to provide preferential sidewalk access to the wealthy by redefining the accepted definition of pedestrian.
Bill Brunton
Guelph, Ontario, Canada