Xbox 360 to be backwards compatible?

So far one of the biggest unanswered questions about the Xbox 360 is whether or not it's going to be backwards compatible with games for the original Xbox. Other the past year or so we've gotten plenty of conflicting reports about backwards compatibility—it's no secret that there are some emulation "issues" involved—but the Inq seems to think that Microsoft might have figured this one out. Their evidence? It's not exactly much to go on, so don't come crying to us when the Xbox 360 comes out and you can't play your copy of Halo 2 on it, but they're pointing to an online questionaire about Xbox Live which mentions that:

Xbox Live is an online gaming service that works across both the current Xbox system and the future Xbox 2. You will be able to play online and compete against others across both consoles. If you are playing an Xbox game on Live you will be able to compete against people playing that same game on Xbox 2.

The catch is that this doesn't necessarily imply backwards compatiblity. It's possible that this could mean that they're simply going to rerelease Xbox 360 versions of current Xbox titles, sort of like how everyone bought Led Zeppelin IV all over again when it came out on CD. But to be honest, we won't know for sure until the reveal all the gory details for the new console next month.

[Bill Shannon @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Xbox 360 is going to more than likely have backwards compatibility; but only if you have the hard dive since Xbox games were written wit the hard drive as part of the system. THere's also a good chance that somewhere on that HD is going to reside a version of Virtual PC for the emulation to work since the Xbox was x86 based and the 360 is PowerPC; and Virtual PC works on PowerPC to emulate x86....oh, you get the idea.

[crsh @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

well it's all going to depend on the cpu/gpu used; if rumoured variants of the g5 are in there, you can kiss backward compatibility goodbye, it's just too drastically different for existing games, -unless- it's run in some kind of emulation shell (but there's no telling what kind of performance hit it would/could suffer, etc). basically, we'll just have to wait and see the real specs when it's announced.

[Gregg Smith @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

You know what that virtual emulation would do to performance? Holy cow

[Outrager @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

This is what I read from another site.
With the Hard Drive addon, it will include the old nVidia chipset. This will allow XBox 360 to play old XBox games. The reason it only comes with the HD is because this way at only $100 (or w/e is will be) the cost MS has to pay to nVidia for the use of the chipset will be cheaper.

[Adam @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

This statement applies to cross platform titles only, such as Madden 2006, Splinter Cell, Doom etc.

[B @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

I.B: There's no reason to post a link to a fake pic of the Xbox 360, espically when the text accompianing the pic identifies it as a fake

[Digital Dave @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

What ever happened to XBOX2 through XBOX359?
Anyone else just find it funny that M$FT went to PowerPC and not an x86 for this? Ha.

[JK @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

It isn't funny, Dave-- just realistic. When you need serious hardware horsepower, the first thing you do is throw out every intel piece of shit in the system.

And editors-- there's no such album as Led Zep IV. Their fourth album was untitled. kids...

[Dan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

The picture is incredibly fake, we all know this. The text is cheaply beveled in Photoshop, the DVD-ROM arrow doesn't match that from ourcolony.net, and neither does the capitalization on the memory card slots.

While the picture may be a total fake, it's probably a good GUESS of what the console is going to look like.

As far as the backwards compatibility:

Microsoft seems like they would be capable of writing an emulation shell efficient enough to run the games from the original xbox. Unfortunately, Microsoft's record when it comes to software efficiency isn't the best ;)

I can't see the console having two different GPUs for two different versions. This would make software developers go insane.

My prediction:

Backwards compatibility is going to be there, one way or another. Microsoft is bent on matching and getting ahead of Sony in every way possible, so it would make sense that they wouldn't think to release a console without a level of backwards compatibility, when Sony is releasing a console with two levels of it.

[Eric @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

As far as I am concered, I dont care if the new xbox is backwards compatable. If I want to play an old game, I will turn on the original xbox. If I want to play a new title, I will turn on the new machine. They will both go thru my A/V reciver. Does everybody plan to sell or dump the old console once they get a new one? I didnt think so, a few of you might.

[mike @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Microsoft is bent on matching and getting ahead of Sony in every way possible

--

which is why the name has a 3 in it...

[crsh @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

well with the mention of virtualpc (now a MS technology) i just got even more worried, VPC is good-enough for running most types of applications -except- games; even on high-end system, you can only emulate so far, and real-time graphics, at high frame rates, are tough to get to a satisfactory level of performance..

anyway, anyway, enough of all these crazy rumours and extrapolations, this hype is killing me; let's wait and see

[Peter Rojas @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

JK, don't nitpick, most people usually call it either "Led Zeppelin IV" or "Zoso". Or at least that's what the stoners in my high school called it.

[bmw @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Intersting thing is that J. ALLard said that all XBOX360 Games must be min 1024 x 720 p 16x9 so how does that work with Old xbox games sure a few titles have this but they are few and fair between.

[bmw @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

10/Eric
Agree 100% dont give a crap if its assbackwards, I will never get rid of my XBOX till it rolls over and dies. It will be a fun toy for my 3 year old son and Daddy can play with the real DEAL a Machine that will give me TRUE HD game Play!!!

[Dan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

#13,

How easy is it to go into a menu in a PC game and change the resolution from 1024x768 to 800x600?

My point is, it doesn't matter that the new games are going to be higher resolution and a different aspect ratio. The hardware would be flexible enough to adapt to each game.

[MarkF @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

For me backwards compatibility is an important buying decision. I use our Xbox as a Media Center Extender, my son uses it to play games. My plan would be to put Xbox360s at each TV so I can use them as extenders everywhere. If it is not compatible I would likely purchase used Xboxs since HighDef is of no use to me and we still want to play the games we have. Xbox360 with backwards compatibility for around $300, I'm in! Otherwise I'll wait.

[Patrick @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

>> Agree 100% dont give a crap if its
>> assbackwards, I will never get rid
>> of my XBOX till it rolls over and dies

and

>> If I want to play an old game, I will
>> turn on the original xbox... Does
>> everybody plan to sell or dump the old
>> console once they get a new one? I
>> didnt think so, a few of you might.

Clearly neither of you are married or living with a woman that hates clutter in the living room. One console that plays the games of two is bueno.

-p-

[iPodTodd @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Unless they want to shoot themselves in the foot and totally kill the Xbox1.0 game market they'll make sure this thing is back-compat. I can't think of a bigger reason for me to NOT buy one than if it only works with new titles. LEARN FROM SONY!

[eleongonzlaes123 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Well i for one have a different plan for my old xbox. I have stayed away from the mod scene, even when everyone on XBC was doing it and using the glass walls hack, because i didn't want to lose live. When xbox 2/360 comes out im going to throw in a bigger hard drive and load my movie collection onto it so I can watch divx movies and play all my games from the hard drive.

[Cullen @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

patrick youre a fucking retard. grow up and learn to respect the people that brought you here. sick of hearing guys talk shit about women on here. fuck off, it doesnt make you any more of mature or more of a man. you come off sounding like a 17 year old who just got laid for the first time.

[RM @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Hey JK, Just wondering why,if the quote as follows is true....


When you need serious hardware horsepower, the first thing you do is throw out every intel piece of shit in the system.

Why is the Superior Apple Harware at a market leading 3%...oh wait, I forgot I pod...5%

[Eric @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

#20,

Why would you compare Intel and Apple? Each company makes different products. And don't get me started on the whole Windows/Mac thing....

There's nothing wrong with Intel chips. But for some reason, the company that has made it fortune via Intel chose the G5...and I'll assume they know better than you or I. So, there must be something great about the G5....actually, I know for a fact because I've got 2 of them in my Mac!

[Doubtful @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Don't forget that not everyone has an Xbox already, especially outside of the US. The value of the existing gamebase should be considered.

New purchasers may get a 360 hoping to buy and play some of the classic titles from the original, like HALO, etc.

Didn't the PS2 use the audio chip alone to process PS games for backwards compatibility? Don't overlook the possibility of using a dual purpose proc.

Plus there is simply the competiton. If Sony can make it backwards compatible, why can't Microsoft...they certainly wouldn't want to appear inferior.

[Alex @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

>With the Hard Drive addon, it will include the
> old nVidia chipset. This will allow XBox 360 to >play old XBox games.

Since the graphics chipsets in the Xbox and Xbox360 both support DirectX, there is no reason that the new one won't be able to handle the old games. But if the hard drive add-on included the old intel processor, then they wouldn't have to emulate anything with virtual PC. Including the old processor in the add-on is a pretty creative idea, I wonder what they cost these days.

[Scott @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

RM: You don't seriously think market share is a strong indication of product quality, do you? If you want some numbers that are actually appropriate to compare, try looking at the percentage of overall consumers who actually know or care about processors, motherboards, hardware, etc. and comparing them with the percentage of consumers who just use what they are familiar with or is bought for them. I imagine you'll find that the first category is 5% at best.

The average consumer couldn't even pronounce half of the words on this website, much less understand or care what they mean. They just want a computer to do work, email and surf the internet. If you think they're buying computers with "Intel inside" because they choose Intel over other manufacturers, you might want to start frequenting websites that the other 95% of computer users go to.

[Jeremiah @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

It would definitely make alot of business sense for MS to make XBOX360 backwards compatable and not for the usual reasons.

There has been alot of talk about how much it will cost for developers to develop games for the next gen. systems. For smaller developers it might actually be easier for them to continue making games on the original XBOX hardware. If there was back-compat they would be able to do this and still reach the undoubtedly huge market that will buy the 360.

I mean come on, don't forget that the original's hardware is still capable of so much, I mean just look at Halo 2! It just seems a little pre-mature to release a system this early when the XBOX1 still has so much life left in it.

[Jonathan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Well, I'm not sure, and here's the best reason i can find, according to this article at gamespot http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/04/25/news_6122903.html EA will be releasing a version of Battlefield 2 for the XBox fall 2005 and one for XBox 360 sometime in the first quarter of 2006. Why two versions of the same game if they were going to be compatable? My guess is they've already told the developers it's not gonna be.

[Patrick @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

>> grow up and learn to respect the people
>> that brought you here.

Cullen, if anyone is the "retard" here, it is you. I _do_ respect my wife and her wishes to keep our house clean and clutter-free. That's exactly why I said one console that is backwards compatible is better than two. Learn to read and comprehend. Spouting off an answer without thinking about what you are replying to makes you look like a 10 year old who's mom stepped out of the room and let her kid run around the Internet unsupervised.

-p-

[Geoffrey @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

According to a reliable worm inside an MGS company, the next-gen Xbox (code-name Xenon) *will* be backwards compatible with the original Xbox -- this was a top level decision.

Original plans for the next-gen Xbox would have based it around a Pentium-M class chip, until a certain boffin proved that using a PowerPC chip and suitable emulation software could perfectly mimic the original Xbox's performance as well as prove a big leap in performance over the original new design. This prompted Microsoft's purchase of VirtualPC from Connectix. (The fact that VirtualPC is now included with Office:Mac is just icing on the cake)

GPU emulation is also possible, thanks to the use of a standard API for communicating with the 3D device (think Direct3D). This is already working, and is a part of the Xenon development system (which uses a twin-CPU PowerMac G5 with an ATI video card, and runs an Apple-tweaked build of Windows NT for PowerPC).

(This last gem *does* mean that there is now a build of DirectX for PowerPC -- it does not mean that Apple users will see DirectX compatibility inside MacOS, however. The contract between Apple & Microsoft prohibits this, and besides, Steve doesn't want the Mac to be a games platform.)

Emulating the original Xbox's hard drive is also factored in to the Xenon design: as the majority of users never utilised more than 10% of the old HD for game storage, the Xenon will sport a small amount of flash memory (currently estimated to be 1 GB) that will hold save-game data from old as well as new games.

As for titles being released for both old and new Xbox platforms, that's not suprising. There's a lot of original Xboxes still out there seeing regular use (ie, sufficient market), and re-producing the same title to take advantage of a superior platform's abilities is just common sense, seeing as it is not really that difficult to move the code-base to Xenon and 'flesh it out'. In fact, the Xenon devkit can also be used to produce titles for the existing Xbox. And we can thank the boys at Bungie for this, as a lot of the changes made to the Halo engine for Halo 2 are aimed squarely at the increased gworld of the Xenon.

When one looks at the history of Bungie, and Halo in particular, it is not all that suprising to see the switch to PowerPC/ATI. Halo was first publicly demo'd at MacWorld running off a blue-and-white G3 (also ATI based), Bungie head Jason Jones (now CTO for the Xenon project) is a long-time Mac addict ...

[crsh @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Geoffrey.. wow, just.. wow. Your cluelessness about application architecture and, well, just basic differences between x86 and PPC code compiler outputs, lead me to believe you just gobble anything rumour sites push down your throat (this is a top level directivem if that's the only kind of message you're willing to listen to..)

[sd @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Well you see it says "XBOox 2" not "XBox 360" so maybe it is a future model that will have backward compatibility! ;-)

[marty @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

I doubt Xbox360 will be backwards compatible.

1. Xbox gpu is made by Nvidia and Xbox360 is made by ATI

2. Microsoft fell out with Nvidia over the last Xbox and therefore will not be in a hurry to let them use Nvidia technolgy again.

3. PS3 will kick ass(namely Xbox360's) so it won't matter anyhow:)

[Peter da Silva @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

The GPU may or may not be a big deal. Remember, the Xbox is basically a PC, and it uses the DirectX abstraction layer: games aren't supposed to program the GPU directly. So long as the new GPU provides at least the functionality of the old one, it should not be a deal-breaker.

The CPU emulation is the big one. There's a certain amount of parallelism they can take advantage of, have one CPU doing recompilation, one CPU running the recompiled code, and one CPU doing any hardware glue... but it's stil iffy. If an emulator runs better than 10:1 that's doing pretty well, so you'd be looking at an Xbox at 300-400 MHz, which if I recall correctly is half the speed of the real thing. MAYBE they can get another factor of two from parallelisation, but it would be close.

[Mothra @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

#20 (eleongonzlaes123): The Xbox 360 will not support DivX or Xvid, so you're sh!t outta luck with that idea.

[Luk @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

(Xbox 360)Halo 2 doesn't work on line and the big "M" is giving me the run around! waited hours in line and have spent hours on hold! If I did bussness this way I'd be bankrupt! Thanks Microsoft!

[luk @ Dec 19th 2005 12:13AM]

Oh, and there ([e-mail]) email address doesn't work either!