Gates proposes cellphones as alternative to OLPC

Looks like it's getting harder to separate Bill Gates the aggressive monopolist from Bill Gates the saintly man of the year. While hobnobbing with the world's elite at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, last week, Gates (pictured above at CES) proposed an alternative to Nicholas Negroponte's vaunted $100 One Laptop Per Child program: cheap smartphones that could be used as computers. According to reports, both Gates and Microsoft CTO Craig J. Mundie talked up the idea of a specially designed smartphone that could be connected to a TV and keyboard, turning it into a full-fledged computer. "Everyone is going to have a cellphone," Mundie said. While we have no doubt that Gates is sincere in his desire to help get the world's poor connected, reports also point out that he was disappointed that Negroponte chose Linux for OLPC -- even after Gates offered an open-source version of Windows CE to power the laptop. A Windows-powered smartphone could get Microsoft back into the game and assist the man of the year with his efforts to help the downtrodden.

[Justin @ Jan 30th 2006 10:27AM]

The thing is, Windows needs support, because it always screws up on its own. If they do Linux right it won't need an ounce of support. I'm thinking of the Nokia 770 tablet as the perfect concept OS - it's Linux-based, extensible, developer-friendly, but to a consumer the OS just works, doesn't crash, doesn't need support, etc.

[John @ Jan 30th 2006 10:40AM]

Jarod, while Microsoft-bashing is okay. I think you miss the bigger point that Bill is making about the future (though self-servingly). That is that the cell phone is the platform, not the laptop, that connects the next two billion people with each other.

[Richard @ Jan 30th 2006 10:44AM]

How old is Negroponte now!

Gate's idea - IMHO - is a better one and I bet the economics are better too.

On the downside - using your celly as a computer means that your carrier could know everything about you AND using a M$-powered celly means that Bill will know everything about you that he doesn't already.

Better do it w/ Symbian - the system the marketplace has already chosen.

[John Hinds @ Jan 30th 2006 10:45AM]

A cell phone/computer that connects to a TV is cool but they seem to have fogotten that most people that this is aimed at don't have a TV, or anywhere to plug in and recharge the phone.

[Craig @ Jan 30th 2006 10:47AM]

I think this underscores the debate over which is more important: content or communication. Some might argue that they're the same, or merging, which in some ways is true. But laptops (good at content) make lousy phones and phones (good at communication) make lousy laptops -- it's just the nature of the beast. Maybe in 10 years that won't be the case, but at the moment, the two aren't replacements for each other. So, which does the 3rd world need more: content or communication?

[howie @ Jan 30th 2006 10:54AM]

Hope it's better than WEB TV cuz that was the poor man's PC too and it sucked!!!! RAH rah Bill.

[Eric @ Jan 30th 2006 10:54AM]

Yeah, right. And I wonder what cell service costs in most third-world countries? Or is the phone going to have a Wifi connection for the computer part?

When I was in Colombia in October, I think cell service out in the mountains was somthing like 3 pesos per minute. That's amazingly cheap. And on top of that they have better reception in the mountains of Colombia than in downtown San Diego! I don't remember every seeing anyone lose their connection. Even five hours outside of Bogot?n valleys surrounded by high moutains and only shanty towns around - go figure.

Still, cruising the web at 3 pesos per minute isn't going to be in reach of many people.

[i'macomputa @ Jan 30th 2006 11:01AM]

I wish there was a way to take the fanboyism and Brand bashing out of Engadget. Maybe if we had the ability to rate posters on this site it would discourage people from talking out of their ass.

[Ken @ Jan 30th 2006 11:14AM]

Gates is right. The fact that people resent him doesn't change that. He's thinking outside the box here -- give the idea a moment's consideration and you'll realize it's a much cheaper way to go.

And unlike Negroponte's idea, it is something that might actually HAPPEN, rather than being another pie in the sky jerkoff fantasy of 1st world generosity that never seems to happen when it's time to cut the checks.

[Charbax @ Jan 30th 2006 11:25AM]

The kids can't do their homework on a cell phone, nor read an ebook, nor watch webtv, nor play multiplayer games.

[Derrick @ Jan 30th 2006 12:15PM]

#5 is right. In many poor countries, power is not easily available and is expensive. Unless there is a way to hand-crank out power to a television, the television / TV setup is useless.

[DJ @ Jan 30th 2006 12:15PM]

They wouldnt be doing it on the cellphone screen. If you read it, you would have seen that it would be hooked into a TV and a keyboard. The cellphone would just be the intermediate device to hook it to the internet...

[NeoteriX @ Jan 30th 2006 12:26PM]

11 is right.

The only guaranteed future a little cellphone is going to give to children is one with glasses.

Besides, if they were worried a black market for the laptops were going to break out, I can only imagine that a little cell phone that can be more easily stolen and concealed would be that much worse.

Lastly... The little laptop has a handcrank for places without power. How do you charge the cellphone where there isn't a power grid?

[Charbax @ Jan 30th 2006 12:57PM]

Kids won surf the internet on a cell phone, nor chat, nor draw, nor look at pictures, nor learn to program, install much software, voice-over-ip, google earth, webcam video-conference, write essays, search on google, translate text to learn local language and english, study geography.. All those things are not going to happen on mobile phones.

Though mobile pocket devices will be usefull in the whole world certainly, they will run Linux, be IP centric and have powerfull multimedia features and a harddrive built-in.

If you want to help with the education firstly you need laptops.

[Mojo @ Jan 30th 2006 1:07PM]

Both laptop and cell phone approaches assume a certain amount of infrastructure precede them, including electricity and communication (wired or otherwise) networks. These assumptions, in turn, require that more basic needs (clean water, nourishing food, health care and a marked reduction in the amount of bullets and shrapnel wizzing by) are met first. Bill and Nick are looking at the day when all of the above is in place, and considering what could be done next to help a population develop further.

In that light, I think Bill is on to something. If I had to build a state-sponsored communications infrastructure from scratch, to cover a large area with minimal costs I would focus on cellular. Probably GSM/GPRS (I know there is better) in order to use the most widely deployed and available (hence cheaper) gear I could get my hands on.

From there, I'd want to provide people with a single integrated unit for access. Maximum integration, minimum parts for cost and ruggedness. Completely solid state to eliminate moving pieces (ruggedness) and reduce power consumption. A landsape screen and keyboard with the former at, say, 640x240 (half-VGA) resolution.

What this sounds like to me is something in the form factor of the Nokia communicator series. I can't comment on that phone, but the form factor is right.

Now, retail price on my Treo 650 (no subsidy) is about $700. This phone is more than capable of reading and creating documents, spreadsheets, etc., surfing the web, email, and more. It lasts for a number of days on a single charge depending mostly on radio usage.

Take the Treo, tweak the form factor per above, ruggedize, and squeeze down the specs (CPU speed could easily be reduced) and I suspect you could mass-produce this puppy under the $300 cost point. Further integration and manufacturing optimizations could ultimately account for the remaing cost bogey.

Unlike Bill, I'd rather see this thing run Linux as it carries a much broader range of development tools (and developers) to create inexpensive and/or free software to run on such a device. To me this seems like a much easier path forward than a laptop-centric design.

As for a laptop without communications capabilites, I don't see the point. If the goal is inspiring economic development in otherwise unconnected communities, they must have access to the world beyond their geography. I'm not sure what value computing, in and of itself, provides to an underdeveloped community except as a means to tap the larger knowledge store (and ultimately markets) of the developed world.

[Cameron @ Jan 30th 2006 1:16PM]

UMM. Televisions? hahahahhaha.... will the TVs in question have generators built in as well? Because in Africa, in rural areas about 60% of households don't have electricity.

[Slaven @ Jan 30th 2006 1:25PM]

As others pointed out it seems Bill hasn't really read too much about OLPC:

- Mesh network is one of the major selling points of OLPC, network brings the power to this device; and no, there is no cell coverage in most of the areas OLPC is targetting
- It includes a screen - if they could afford a TV (or power it), they could just buy a second hand computer and plug it in.
- You can wind-up OLPC to power it, without any external power source.

[David T @ Jan 30th 2006 3:12PM]

11, 14: well, the whole point is that you're able to plug it into a TV, right? that implies the smartphone will do something different when it's there, perhaps output at higher resolution.

15: oh no, kids WILL be able to do that, and much more. my little hw6515 can do most of the things you mentioned. except google earth and video conferencing. although there's no reason in theory why it couldn't do those as well. and if you're talking about a small form factor, there are plenty more applications for Win CE than Linux phones. it's not that easy just to put a Linux program on a Linux phone and hope it works. in any case, most likely, only a few carefully chosen apps will be needed in such a case. pdf reader, word processor, full featured browser, scheduler; maybe a media player. what else do you really need?

the main point is always networking. i agree with 18. but out there, cell phone networks work better. full stop. i don't know about africa but in china cell coverage is 100% everywhere i went, even in the middle of nowhere. it's so much better than even in London. apparently that's the case in columbia too. and if you needed cell phone access, the technology is proven, cheap, and rugged. it's ready to go.

i'm sure the charging issue has been thought through. a crank charger should be easier to work with a cellphone than a laptop, no? perhaps they'll plug it into the TV only in, for e.g., community centres or schools, where there will be at least a generator for that.

1: you're an idiot. sorry, couldn't resist. lol. everyone else has at least something constructive to say.

[Nobuyuki Idei @ Jan 30th 2006 3:13PM]

World Economic Forum is a horrible collection of the worst socialist, fascists, and totalitarian ideas to come out at any given point in time and geography. Most of the ideas are usually focused on how governments (or even worse, the UN) can extract more money from the populace and spend it on all these horrible ideas on how to help the third world, who for the most part, are in self-induced poverty.

[Luke @ Jan 30th 2006 4:20PM]

How can you bash Bill on this one? Competition in making cheap computing devices can't be a bad thing. Hopefully Jobs will become jealous and make his own version.

[B! @ Jan 30th 2006 7:37PM]

It's true most basic tasks can be done on a mobile phone but I think it's not going to work. Why? Building the network infrastructure is expensive. Using the phone to call or transfer data is expensive.

No 8, It's cheap for you as a tourist but is it cheap for the people living in Colombia?

If everyone have a cell phone, that one network will be overwhelmed. The other carrier idea is good but roaming charges?

I can't help but feel that Mr. Gates idea of helping the poor is giving them another problem to worry about.

Don't believe me? Why are you complaining about your mobile phone bills? Hint, It's not the phone that's expensive!

[Bill Landon @ Jan 31st 2006 12:26AM]

Being able to mod down a post would be great. How does poster number 1 "Jarod" function on a daily basis with that much hatred. I run hardware OS agnostic and pick the best product for the job and leave zealotry out of it. If the crank PC can get it done with Linux and make it work, sweet, if MS can make a phone or webpad with CE and get it done, sweet, if MAC can make a...well you get the idea.

[U. Betchya @ Jan 31st 2006 2:12AM]

I recall reading a quote by Bill G.: "...people in the third world don't need cell phones, they need food and medicine,"... or something to that effect.

It was a response to U.S. wireless technology companies that wanted to create new markets and sell phones to people in underprivileged nations.

Well, Mr. Bill seems to have put his money where his mouth was up until now. Now he's willing to change his values when future Windows licenses might be threatened? That's bull***t! So much for feigning empathy.

A hand-cranked device with battery storage, attached screen and keyboard makes more sense than a cell phone-based setup which would require separate power, screen, and keyboard.

Do you really think that the people they want to provide these to have the required additional hardware to make a system work? Sure... let me just go to my storage (mud) hut and grab my old Dell keyboard and Sony Trinitron. NOT.

The addition of a wireless radio to the earlier proposed systems makes sense. A Microsoft-based cell phone makes no sense.

U. Betchya

[EatingPie @ Jan 31st 2006 4:14PM]

As we can see from other posts, Negroponte's PC came from some real-world research, not just something he popped off at an economic forum (the "use TV as a screen" thing shows Gates' ignorance here).

* Books - 1000s of them! - readily available (pre-installed).
* Additional Books = CD, sharable by everyone.
* Homework can be done without pen/paper.
* Crank Chargable when no electricity.
* Keyboard/Screen provided.
* No service charges.
* Completely free OS.
* OS (should) comes with developer/learning environment free.

To answer the question of content vs. communication: in this case it's content: Get books and learning materials cheaply to the VERY poor. That is an imperative in Negropente's design. A cellphone solves none of those issues.

-Pie

[Michael Barty @ Feb 5th 2006 5:29AM]

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