AACS finalized, Blu-ray and HD DVD: game on!

While no setback to a standard is especially preferable (just ask: WiMax, 802.11n, Ultrawideband, etc.), at least Blu-ray and HD DVD, who were quagmired by the AACS forum, whose copy protection standard that they convinced both formats to use, was delayed. Well, delayed it be no longer, as it seems the AACS forum apparently agreed on an interim license late Wednesday night so the two heavy hitters, like prize fighters, can now proceed to knock the crap out of one another in the market. Come February 21st we're supposed to get the official release on this, but we have a feeling it's no coincidence that today's the day Toshiba announced their 40-city HD DVD Retail Store Tour-O-Thon 2006 (official name).

[Tom W @ Feb 17th 2006 12:06PM]

Tour-O-Thon?

I prefer Tour-O-Rama, but that's just me.

[Matthew Lenz @ Feb 17th 2006 12:17PM]

I give it 9 months max before ACSS is cracked.

[mcepat @ Feb 17th 2006 12:28PM]

HDDVD: Fair Use for Consumers

BLUERAY: Unfair for consumers

Stop swapping spit with Sony who has stuff like root kit, memory stick, minidisc, umd which are all fun locked down propietary formats that have no consumer love what so ever

I SAY SCREWRAY!

THATS WHY ALL THE COMPANIES ARE SUPPORTING BLUERAY? THEY LOVE THAT IT DOES NOT SUPPORT FAIR USE, THEY LOVE IT!

Blu-ray:

Discs are NOT backwards compatible with today's DVD players

Higher-cost hardware compared to HD DVD

HD DVD:

HD DVD has been standardized by the DVD Forum (international association of 200+ companies)

Discs will play in all currently-deployed DVD players

Spec includes "managed copy" function, making DRM licencees happy

jeez who would you pick? Don't be a blueray sony loving dipshit

[Patrick Flynn @ Feb 17th 2006 1:06PM]

OK, #3, I agree with you, but language like that is a tad strong for a comment box, huh?...

Anyways, I side with HD DVD because looking back at the history of both sides, it will probably be more open.

[the_oxymormon @ Feb 17th 2006 1:25PM]

umm mcepat, would you be so kind as to explain how my dvd player with a RED laser will play larger capacity disks that need a BLUE laser to work?

[Regula Blique @ Feb 17th 2006 1:54PM]

Im blu-RAY alllll DAY in the hood Son!!!

[R @ Feb 17th 2006 2:07PM]

Actually it's more like:

HDDVD: Unfair Use for Consumers
BLUERAY: More Unfair for consumers

DRM only exists to take away our rights and any one who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

[LOL-KIDS @ Feb 17th 2006 3:52PM]

mcepat could write a book about conspiracy theories.

get lost

[mcepat @ Feb 17th 2006 4:11PM]

8. mcepat could write a book about conspiracy theories. (actually just read anywhere online)

sony root kit: busted in the news we know that

memory stick: sony propietary format, readers are on sony tv's sony laptops but most people I know use sd or cf, most readers just drop memory stick format.

minidisc: again sony propietary format just recently included wma support

umd: universal disc (universal for who?) only works on again a sony device

HP with HDDVD has determined that Managed Copy and iHD will address the fundamental technical needs of the PC and help create a seamless experience throughout the digitally connected home:

Managed Copy: Unlike with today's conventional DVDs, this feature allows consumers to make legitimate copies of their HD movies and enjoy this content around the home or across their networks. Making this feature mandatory will ensure a consistent consumer experience across all next-generation DVD content.

iHD: Next-generation HD movies will provide a level of interactive experience well beyond that of today's conventional DVDs. iHD technology provides a broad foundation to enable new interactivity with standards-based development tools and technologies. It will provide consumers with enhanced content, navigation and functionality for HD films. Furthermore, Microsoft plans to implement iHD support in its Windows(R) Vista operating system, which will help ease implementation and provide a cost-effective solution for consumers.

"managed copy" is not supported by blueray

not sure if this is a conspiracy? I agree with HDDVD is less unfair and DRM is crap, fully agree on that one

[AnnDee @ Feb 17th 2006 4:26PM]

mcepat is right #5, you just didn't read it.

as for the debate... one will prove to go the way of batamax

[Echo_ @ Feb 17th 2006 4:31PM]

sweet hd-dvd is backwars compatible so i can use it on my dvd player!!!

mcepat your a genius!!!!
...

blu ray players will play dvds idiot, just liek dvd players play cds

[Jason @ Feb 17th 2006 5:50PM]

Both HD-DVD and Blue-Ray is destined to share the same space SACD is in today.

Who needs fragile plastic when you can have a NAS?

[KhitomerRouge @ Feb 17th 2006 6:09PM]

I don't know what mcepat is smoking, but he/she is wrong on just about everything.

1) Managed Copy is a part of the AACS specs that both formats abide by. At this point, AACS has left the Managed Copy up to the studios, not the hardware manufacturers. HP even admitted that Blu-Ray was right, but they were bullied by Microsoft to join for iHD. Dell isn't stupid or cowardly, and still strongly support Blu-Ray only.

2) Backwards compatibilty (i.e DVD playback and upconverting) is included in both formats as well. You can not play titles in either format on regular DVD players unless they are "flippers" with the high-def version on one side and the DVD version on the other. Both formats have the capability to produce hybrids.

3) While HD DVD is approved by the "200+ company" DVD-Forum, there are currently only two players expected to launch in the near future: the Toshiba HDA1 for $499 and the Toshiba HDAX1 for $799. The Thomson player is a rebadge of the HDA1, neither support 1080p or Dolby lossless/uncompressed audio, and both may require firmware upgrades to work correctly. On the other hand, Blu-Ray has ~80% of the major hardware manufacturers and ~85% of the studios behind them, most of them exclusive to the format.

4) Microsoft is pissed at Blu-Ray because they went with a direct competitor's (Sun Java) solution for interactivity, so they've decided to act like babies and refuse to play with Blu-Ray. Every other major playback/burning software company is working directly with both formats to be consumer-friendly, instead of dicks.

5) Two of the major studios behind HD DVD, Universal and Warner (who also supports Blu-Ray) are fans of the down-rez over non-HDCP connections. Going by market share, you can expect 75-80% of HD DVD titles to down-rez. Fox (a Blu-Ray exclusive) says they will refuse to down-rez.

[formulaben @ Feb 17th 2006 6:27PM]

Hmmm, let's see, a format offering FULL 1080p High Defintion movies with full HD audio and extra room for other goodies, or a disc that either lacks the proper storage or must be flipped? Easy answer...

[south @ Feb 18th 2006 4:39AM]

neither format is worth buying. both will go the way of betamax; the future is broadband and flash memory. the sooner i get spinning discs out of my laptop the better.

[teedjay @ Feb 18th 2006 7:16AM]

mcepat is just a clueless fanboi / anti-sony-troll !

memorystick is the second largest memory card standard. memorystick pro was co-developed between sony and sandisk, and can be used by anyone as long as they agree with the licence. it's just as proprietary as Panasonics's SD-card standard. more info http://www.memorystick.org/ or http://www.memorystick.com/

minidisc won the competition against DCC (digital compact cassette) back in the 90'ies. in 1995 i had a 140 mb portable data minidiscplayer with scsi-ii, it was FAR more data storage than tapes or later zip-drive of that time. minidisc has been (still is) successfull, the latest versions has 1 GB discs and uses so little battery that they give play times twice that of flash players.

the universal part of umd does not stand for all the countries of mother earth, but the fact that it is can be used for data, programs, music and video.

both hd dvd and bd supports "managed copies". both system uses the same AACS copy protection. BD can also have "watermarks" on the disks, that makes it easy to detekt counterfeit "cheam china pressings".

most software (game and dvd) have copy protection today, you must be stupid to think that HD DVD movies will be sold without maximum copy protection. you will not be able to make a digital copy of HD DVD movie from one of the large publishers at full resolution.

managed copies can be used on pre-recorded media, and can be nice way to let people them selves copy an distribute "demo disks", "teasers" etc - but the main selling point of this is actually that you can record a managed copy on your BD-recorder from a HD DVD player (since they both support AACS and managed copies).

stuff you burn at home on empty 25/50gb BD-roms with your pc can be copied as much as you like.

so, just as before HiDef movies will be protected just as DVD is protected today.

the interactive BD plattform is the same as for digital SetTop boxes and has several layers, with the most interactive one based on Java. the HD DVD plattform is a proprietary Microsoft solution.

[Daryl @ Feb 18th 2006 7:18AM]

I think what's happening here is normal. There are fanboys who prefer one format to the other (#3 MCEPAT and his idiotic bunch who believe that HD-DVD discs can play in current red laser DVD players).
While we all remember HP pulling it's exclusive support for Blu-Ray because of iHD and Managed Mandatory Copy, we forget that the Blu-Ray group added Managed Copy but stayed with Java for interactivity, which pissed off Microsoft to go in the other direction.
Tosibba has TV sets capable of displaying 1080p images. HD-DVD is only capable of 1080i, and the last time I checked, 720p and 1080i is what's on TV. Now call me crazy, but is that an admission on the part of Toshiba that 1080p (which is a standard feature of Blu-Ray) is better?
Many years ago, Bill Gates said something along the lines of the average computer owner needing no more than 1gig of memory. Is this him being shortsighted again or maybe he does not care who wins?
In all interviews, Bill Gates, has stated his belief that the PC should be an integral part of the Digital Home, facilitating downloads, copying and transfers of content around the house and on the internet. My personal opinion is that even he knows that Blu-Ray is superior to HD-DVD. He also knows that even the support of Microsoft will not make it better. It will, however cause enough of a format war to make both formats fail, just like SACD and DVD Audio.
Realize that prior to Microsoft throwing it's weight behind HD-DVD, that format was on it's way to the graveyard. Then Microsoft exerted enough power to bring HP along.
Until both parties make it to the retail stores, all we have is specs, and they give the lead to Blu-Ray. I dont know about you, but 1080p, Managed Mandatory Copy, Java interactivity, 200gig(max) capacity, Playstation 3 compatibility and a host of other features I can't list here make the Blu-Ray my choice.

[Dave @ Feb 19th 2006 10:25AM]

#17 - "HD-DVD is only capable of 1080i"

Actually, if you read the spec, HD-DVD is capable of 1080p24, 1080p25 and 1080p30. Blu-ray is only capable of 1080p24. Neither can output the holy grail of 1080p60.

The first HD-DVD players, however, can only output 1080i.

HD-DVD spec: http://www.dvdforum.org/images/Requirements%20Specification%20for%20HD%20DVD%20Video%20Application-July2005.pdf

BD-ROM spec: http://www.bluraydisc.com/Section-13470/Section-13627/Index.html

#13 - "Fox (a Blu-Ray exclusive) says they will refuse to down-rez."

Fox won't have a choice. Down-rezing over non-HDCP connections is part of the AACS spec used in both systems.

[Daryl @ Feb 21st 2006 8:21AM]

#18,Now I am not ruling out the possibility of 1080p for HD-DVD, I just can't help but wonder what length of the 1080p movie will be on a 15gig HD-DVD disc. 20 monutes? Conveniently, your link that says so does not work.