Vista getting 60% code rewrite?

We're not sure how much we trust the "Microsoft insider" that apparently spoke to Australia's Smarthome News, but the site claims that the source told them that up to 60% of the oft-delayed Windows Vista's code will have to be rewritten over the next several months. Additionally, the company has apparently pulled developers from the Xbox team in order to meet an internal deadline to launch the operating system at next year's CES in early January. Smarthome also claims that Microsoft will also offer Media Center as an "optional package" with Vista, though we suspect that this isn't a new development, but rather refers to the Vista Home Premium version of the program, which will include Media Center and other goodies. We certainly hope that Smarthome's source is wrong about the 60% rewrite; although Microsoft has reorganized its Vista team, bringing in Steven Sinofsky from the Office group, rewriting that much code would take a lot longer than the nine months between now and CES (unless they're talking about CES 2009, that is). Then again, the company could always hire narf and blanka; they seem to work pretty quickly, and certainly know their way around Windows.

Update: Microsoft's Robert Scoble has checked in with the company's PR people, and says that the Smarthome article is "hogwash." Microsoft's PR agency, according to Scoble, says the article is "absolutely not true," and that, in addition to Vista not requiring a major rewrite, none of the Xbox developers are moving over to the Vista team. Separately, Microsoft said that, although the next version of Office will be done in October, and will be made available to corporate customers before the end of the year, retail versions will ship in January to coincide with the Vista release.

[Matt @ Mar 24th 2006 12:21PM]

Well, that would just be typical Microsoft...this time they MIGHT just release a working product this time round...very late, but working...

[joe @ Mar 24th 2006 12:24PM]

I call BS on the rewrite....how many versions of vista are there? and why would they all need to be redone? just for fun? garbage... not to mention, i didnt think the aussieland was the head of windows development, so why would they get this info first?

[AndrewNeo @ Mar 24th 2006 12:31PM]

#1, they're not rewriting it because of the 'versions' of Vista. All that is is when you register with a certain product key it gives you different features (like Media Center, etc.)
They're rewriting it to get rid of all the sucky code from like Windows XP and earlier, because all they kept doing before was adding on and making a mess of one big code pile. Now they're trying to rewrite it and actually make it -better-.

[Kurt @ Mar 24th 2006 12:34PM]

They are rewriting it to make it more mac-like. Apple scrapped the old OS and starte anew and now MSFT has realized in order to steal all of OSX's features they have to do the same.

Vista = OSX 10.2

[Gary @ Mar 24th 2006 12:39PM]

old Billy Goats, i mean Gates kinda stole the original MacOS and made windows off of it, so it wouldn't surprise me

Windows = worlds most succesful knock-off

[andy @ Mar 24th 2006 12:41PM]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

[Magus @ Mar 24th 2006 12:47PM]

I could care less about vista.
What about DirectX?
hopefully that still makes it out before 2007

[andre @ Mar 24th 2006 12:49PM]

Is this a rumour site or what...no credibility for even running a false story.

As a software engineer I can assure you that a code base the size of windows is not going to 60% re-written in a matter of 9 months. Code has to be locked down. Tested for several months and etc.

I gain access to beta builds of vista and the last time I checked it was more than 60% complete. I run it daily

Jeers to engaget for not thinking before featuring articles/news

[glacia00 @ Mar 24th 2006 12:51PM]

If it's true (big IF, 60% is very unlikely) it wouldn't be a bad thing to break with the legacy parts of the code. Backward compatibility is way way over-rated.

If you have an older machine there is no value in running newer version of the OS on them. I have a variety of machines running a variety of OS's XP, 2000, Linux, Solaris.

If you have an older machine you're probably not using it for anything that needs upgrading anyway so stick with an OS as well as Apps that are better suited to the machine.

[Hagrin @ Mar 24th 2006 12:52PM]

No way. 60% of the code is over 8 million lines of code - absolutely no way is this true and anyone thinking that it is, well I have this great bridge overlooking the water ...

Sure, they will try and aggressively push rewrites to certain key features like the media center code, but 60% is just an outlandish number that couldn't ever possibly be backed up in 9 months times. You can't possibly QA 8 million lines of code in 4.5 months (say 4.5 to write, half to review).

[Christopher @ Mar 24th 2006 12:52PM]

Simply not true, unless somebody forgot to tell the beta team!

[DJ @ Mar 24th 2006 1:03PM]

Anyone else noticed that Microsoft has been nonresponsive when asked what minimum hardware requirements would be for Vista? Yet they were talking about a potential rollout in a 180 days. Even the hardware manufacturers seemed to have been kept in the dark. I'm guessing this thing had become so bloated, that it wouldn't run on 75% of today's existing PC's in their current config's.

The 60% rewrite is probably more about streamlining and recompiling the code to work in the real world.

[Yrian @ Mar 24th 2006 1:04PM]

Much more probably, the news mean that the XBox dudes were called to work on the problematic "piece" of Vista that is equivalent to 60% of the code. Which no way means they're going to erase them all and start anew.

But you know, nowadays if there's no hype (positive or negative) there's no news.

[J @ Mar 24th 2006 1:08PM]

What a great idea, everyone knows the Xbox developers write excellent code.....

[Belgian The Fool @ Mar 24th 2006 1:14PM]

Windows Vista's out by 2007... yeah. PC users have earned it, patience always get awards!
Did you know that Mac Donald's is introducing a gastronomic and dietetic menu by the same time? :-p

Hehe

[glacia00 @ Mar 24th 2006 1:16PM]

Engadget

I can't even find a reference to this 'Smarthome News'. Aside from the home automation company smarthome.com. The closest actually seems to be this german site...
http://smarthome.unibw-muenchen.de/en/news/

Very suspicious Engadget, can I get a source for this post?

[Tomery @ Mar 24th 2006 1:18PM]

This isn't such a big deal... 60% of nothing is, well, nothing!

[Gordy @ Mar 24th 2006 1:19PM]

If it is true, it's good to see that they're being proactive for a change.

Usually, they'd just release crap and inundate us with 'Service Releases'.

[Batboy @ Mar 24th 2006 1:36PM]

So many ignorant posters. Yeesh!

It doesn't help that Engadget pours on the anti-Microsoft posts and outlandish rumors so thick.

#3. "They are rewriting it to make it more mac-like. Apple scrapped the old OS and starte anew and now MSFT has realized in order to steal all of OSX's features they have to do the same."

You haven't actually used Vista, have you? I'd bet that you haven't even looked over some of the features without looking for similarities to OS X. Fact is, Vista looks, feels, and works NOTHING like OS X.

#4. "i mean Gates kinda stole the original MacOS and made windows off of it, so it wouldn't surprise me"

Get your facts straight and never watch Pirates of Silicon Valley again, mmkay?

#10. "Anyone else noticed that Microsoft has been nonresponsive when asked what minimum hardware requirements would be for Vista?"

Just FYI, I've been running the CTPs on both my main computer and my old Athlon XP 1800+ with 512MB of ram and an onboard GeForce 2. Aero isn't enabled, but Vista actually runs better than XP on that machine.

#16. "Usually, they'd just release crap and inundate us with 'Service Releases'."

Longhorn has already been reworked (quite significantly) once. Microsoft isn't as evil, close-minded, and backwards as everyone would like to make them out to seem.

Just for the record, I'm not on Microsoft's payroll and I do own a Mac.

[master_of_fm @ Mar 24th 2006 1:39PM]

from the things that I have read what is being rewritten is the MCE code, not the main OS. so rewritting 60% of the MCE code for vista definitely seems feasible in 9 months

[Ted @ Mar 24th 2006 1:43PM]

60% rewrite?

More likely 60% of the code is going to be cleaned up after debugging has been done. File sizes will be reduced and extra non-code placeholders will be removed so that the files aren't too big for the cab files....Common procdure, nothing new.

[DJ @ Mar 24th 2006 1:50PM]

Microsoft has just now announced the consumer version of Office will be delayed to coincide with the new launch date of the consumer Vista in January. However, both enterprise versions for business of Vista and Office will release in November of this year.

[BLACKOUT @ Mar 24th 2006 1:53PM]

all that said, of all the new features in vista, everything looks like a mac tiger rip.

[MeMe @ Mar 24th 2006 2:11PM]

#16 - http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Computing/Platforms?Article=/Computing/Platforms/R7G5G6U4

[gunny @ Mar 24th 2006 2:14PM]

A year or so ago -- around the time SP 2 was released, wasn't it? -- Vista (then known as Longhorn) did undergo a massive rewrite on the order of 60% of the code. I think our Ozzie friend might have been referring to this. Maybe he got hold of an undated press release or took a ride in a T.A.R.D.I.S. or something, but he seems to have gotten confused with his timelines.

[Justin @ Mar 24th 2006 3:39PM]

OK. 60% aside, this article on forbes seems to tell the real tale of Vista [a view that is far away and unreachable]. I hate microsoft and I have to use them. Talk about a company that over-promises under-delivers. Geeze.

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/03/22/vista-microsoft-ballmer_cz_dl_0322microsoft.html

[SND @ Mar 24th 2006 3:52PM]

Totally bogus. April 1st came early this year.

[apt @ Mar 24th 2006 4:10PM]

Whatever the case, I'd rather have a delayed and working version of the OS rather than a version released sooner and then have the first service pack come out after only a year or so (or even that much).

XP is good enough for now, the fact is I think most of us can afford to wait. Give us a product to be proud of MS, and please realize that ultra-DRM doesn't do anyone any good :)

[Patrick @ Mar 24th 2006 4:13PM]

My take on this: Microsoft is delaying the consumer sales of VISTA (note that enterprise sales remain on schedule) to January 2007 to ensure this Christmas season is still all about the XBOX360 and new games so it's continued sales momentum remains as Sony releases the PS3. Microsoft knows that sales period might be the battle that wins the game console wars, even if the PS3 turns out to be a superior gaming system. Microsoft also will have a greater abundance of consoles during Sony's role-out during the holiday season. Plus, when a family has it's new XBOX360 they just have to buy a new VISTA media center computer to take advantage of their intergration capabilities in the home(Not to mention lots of Windows Mobile 5 Phone Marketing/Sales with "Guranteed to play MP3's too during XMAS season)! Lost XMAS sales to Apple Computers and their signicificantly lower market share are less a threat to Microsoft than Sony's potential market share in consoles. Marketing, Marketing, Marketing! Smart move by Microsoft if you ask me.

[Poopmaster @ Mar 24th 2006 4:20PM]

Hmm. 60% of the "entire codebase" does seem to be a bit outlandish, but there is some truth in the prenumbras, methinks. Is M$ rewriting the code to remove backwards compatibility? Yeah, I'd bet that's true. Does M$ release undertested code and make users function as beta testers? Yes. Win98 was proof of that. Win XP SP2 was true of that, too. So they haven't learned their lessons. Let's face it -- a two-month delay (if that is even accurate!) and a department reorganization means that something is up. But is it 60% up? Probably not.

[graham @ Mar 24th 2006 6:04PM]

I'm not holding my breath waiting for Vista.

Graham
http://www.losangelesweddingphoto.com

[C @ Mar 24th 2006 6:18PM]

Why does there need to be a new windows anyway?
Someone give me a good answer?

All this hype, energy, time, microsoft/engadget, we should be talking about and building better WIFI networks, and other things that would actually make a difference in life.

[JC @ Mar 24th 2006 8:12PM]

People here focus on computers for the home but remember that thousands upon thousands of vertical markets rely on Windows (and Apple or Unix alternatives don't exist). So, if you are a hospital administrator or an engineer or a county highway superintendent, you want a rock solid operating system running a rock solid custom application for your particular industry and you don't give a damn about Garage Band. Microsoft is taking its own sweet time to get it right.

[Little Johnny Howard @ Mar 24th 2006 8:39PM]

Everyone here in Australia knows that Smarthouse Magazine is not worthy of toilet duty. They plagiarise from other magazines, and almost every article is an advertorial. It is run by a guy who promotes products sold on his other commercial website.

This "magazine" has next to no credibility and should be treated with the sort of contempt usually reserved for the likes GWB.

[Alvin Saldanha @ Mar 25th 2006 9:31AM]

I'm waiting for whatever needs to happen for XP to work on the DualCore Mac. That would be fun, and wwould do to Mac and Windows what was long overdue to both of them.

[Jeff Lewis @ Mar 25th 2006 1:08PM]

To back up what BatBoy says in post #19, I've run Vista 5308 (the current prerelease available on MSDN Universal) on my CDN$900 Compaq V2405 which uses an ATi 200M video chipset set to 128MB of shared RAM and an AMD Sempron 3000+ 1.8GHz processor and it works just fine with full translucency - and we're still in the optimisation phase.

The only part that didn't work well was the Media Center component although I was using Hauppauge's MCS drivers for their USB2 PVR - which fits post #20's comment about rewriting MCE.

As for Vista being MacOS X with some changes, sorry - I knew when I first saw Vista that we'd be hearing the Mac fans scream that - and there certainly are some specific cases where that criticism is legit (although one could argue that Sidebar is just as much a rip off of Konfabulator and Apple's Dashboard is...), when you get past the relatively trivial visual similarities, they're really quite different systems.

[Jon Vincent @ Mar 25th 2006 3:00PM]

This post is complete crap. Seriously, Marc, who would believe this? Did you really read that article and think, "Wow, I sure hope THAT'S not true!" If so, you need more experience in the industry, and you certainly need to think a little bit harder before blogging. Please ask an experienced editor to check your work. Personally, I expect Engadget to provide value with a higher signal-to-noise ratio than this.

[boe @ Mar 26th 2006 4:01PM]

I'd be delighted if they said they were rewriting 60% of the next version office. The latest beta still doesn't support more than one outlook profile being open at a time. Business Contact Manager (latest version) still does not put contact data on the Exchange server - any edition. BCM still does not sync with PPC 2003 or WM5. Microsoft Access still does not support jpgs in a database unless you install office XP photo editor.

WAKE UP BILL. Your develoment team doesn't care about function - all they care about is making it look like a MAC! If I wanted something as functionless as a MAC I'd get one. I already know how to use a computer - I don't need it easier to use I need it more capable of doing basic things! When things that were functional in XP and weren't in 2003 that is an oversight. When they don't work in your next version, you are just covering your ears and saying "la la la la - I can't hear you..."

[segaga @ Mar 27th 2006 5:24AM]

It's time for all SEGA FANS TO UNITE, go to http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/newsegaconsole
and sign the petition. Sega games are not the same unless
there on a SEGA console

[Mike @ Jun 18th 2006 7:52AM]

So now you finally can download the betta, wonder when it'll be released oficially though