Denon's CD192T and FMJ CD36T ARCAM audiophile CD players

Don't you dare say CDs are dead, kid. Well, at least not to the fine folks at Denon, who've just launched anachronistically expensive CD192T and FMJ CD36T, two ARCAM CD players more or less built enthusiastically around a Wolfson WM8740 DAC. For your ¥210,000 or ¥315,000 (about $1,900 and $2,800 US) you get, um, a CD player with anti-vibration shielding, 192kHz sampling, 114dB SNR, coax, TOSLINK, and two RCA outs. We'd say that's money better spent on DVD-Audio or SACD at this point, but we're not sure we've ever been able to convince the audiophiles of anything -- so if you are to CDs what many are to vinyl, welcome home.

[Via Impress]

[EatingPie @ May 24th 2006 9:44AM]

Since Denon is supporting DVD-A and SACD in their high-end players, I did a major double-take here. Especially since the 192khz these players upconvert to is DVD-A's max sample rate.

Then I see these are actually ARCAM units. Ah. English Audiophile company (with a great reputation btw)!

Now it makes sense. I'd still forego these for a high end multi-format player (like the Denon 2900), but there are much, much richer people out there than me... and many of them have vast CD libraries that can benefit from these (ARCAM!) players.

-Pie

[Jeremy Moses @ May 24th 2006 9:46AM]

Hey, you need your eyes adjusted, kid - clearly those are Arcam CD players, as any audiophile geek worth his salt could tell you just by looking at the model numbers.

FMJ stands for Full Metal Jacket here. :-)

By the way, CDs are still popular with audiophiles mainly due to lack of "software" in the SACD and DVD-A realm.

[Justin Wake @ May 24th 2006 9:54AM]

This is perhaps a little misleading - Denon are merely the distributors in this case. See http://arcam.co.uk for ARCAM's site - they're actually a British hi-fi outfit of some repute.

[Tomas @ May 24th 2006 10:08AM]

I think it's time to dump the audiophile CD player altogether, and to start developing high quality wav/flac output devices. (Although the Squeezebox with Burr-Brown DAC is a nice start.) When you rip to wav/flac, you solve the problem of vibration, which people spend thousands to solve in a high-end player.

[Kris @ May 24th 2006 10:20AM]

If you're not poking at mic "fanboys", you're poking at audiophiles :)

But seriously, there are solid reasons why audiophiles are still so fond of the CD format-- A well mastered CD through an audiophile system sounds infinitely better than your average (overly compressed) SACD through the same system. Indeed, a well mastered CD through an audiophile system will sound infinitely better than a well mastered SACD/DVD-A through most any consumer-level hardware.

It is also well established that a good ~£350 Stereo integrated amp will blow away a £1000+ multichannel amp/receiver when it comes to music- whether one or the other is fed by a SACD won't help that. When it comes to highend monoblocks, hand-picked high end DACs, rear-loaded horns, etc. you are entering a level of music reproduction that goes well beyond the consumer level cd/sacd debate. There is NO DOUBT that these new formats offer great on-paper specifications, but the hardware market is nowhere near as mature as the audiophile cd player market. The fact remains that the CD format offers far more dynamic range than 99% of recordings ever need/use, this was never true of vinyl.

[HDTV4ME @ May 24th 2006 10:32AM]

Uh? Since when is Arcam = Denon. This is a very misleading IMO. And while I don't subscribe to $20,000 cables for my hi-fi set up, I will attest to the fact that Arcam builds very high-end and excellent gear for the money when compared to some of the really really high-end stuff out there. Bottom line - stop picking on Arcam and get the Denon thing off the headline.

[Dave @ May 24th 2006 10:38AM]

The major problem for me (as an Audiophile) is the restrictive nature of SACDs. I'll take a normal CD any day, simply because I can use my own DAC rather than the player's. It's more cost effective, and I can use a DAC that I like the sound of with various other things I have that sport digital connections. Seems like most SACD players I've tried only output to analog, forcing me to use the internal DAC... that is, unless it's a dual disc of some kind.

Give me a good old fashioned CD player transport, my favorite DAC, a nice headphone amp and my new Grado GS1000 any day.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ May 24th 2006 10:50AM]

DVD comment is rather silly. I haven't yet met combo device - DVD+CD player - of good quality.

Harman was promising something like that with its DVDx series, but instead later on they have resumed producing HD7x0 series of CD players.

Go figure.

[Cem @ May 24th 2006 10:57AM]

the writer of this article does not know about quality hardware. you do not have to be an audiophile to understand that the digital to analog conversion is very important no matter whether it is video or audio. So i would indeed rather have goods dacs on a cd player with a good stereo amp than an overpriced sacd or dvda player that plays dead-on-arrival formats with a 7.1 mediocre amp.

[Michael Lomker @ May 24th 2006 11:14AM]

I've previously owned Arcam gear and although I had far too many service issues with it, the gear is of premium quality and quite a value when it comes to hi-end. I have moved to a Denon 3910 and am happy with the decision, but Arcam is worth the money if you can afford it.

[Kris @ May 24th 2006 11:37AM]

Slightly off topic, but I'll add--

Arcam are indeed a well respected company, they make good kit, although of course that's not to say that there aren't as good (or better choices) at particular price points or for particular tastes in music. I personally find their CD players very solid, but their amps a tad anemic sounding for my tastes in music. Their pre/power combos are where they start to shine.

Yeah, bit dissapointing to see a post which has its head so far up the whole technology/format "newer is better" nonsense. Quality kit is quality kit. Why do you think that a good vinyl system (with comparatively dreadful specifications for thd and available dynamic range) will trump your average SACD player fed into a 5.1 amp every time ..? Quality, components, engineering, maturity..

[Happy Phantom @ May 24th 2006 11:51AM]

I want an Arcam Solo so bad it hurts.

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/285/V/1/SP/332679698360342732266

[dac @ May 24th 2006 12:33PM]

This is Arcam gear, why are you calling it Denon. Denon is a Japanese manufacturer, part of D&M Holdings Inc. (http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/index.html), whose brands include, Denon, Marantz, McIntosh, Boston Acoustics, Snell, Escient, CTN, D&M Professional, but not ARCAM! Arcam, or A & R Cambridge Ltd, is a completely separate company from Denon. Look it up http://www.arcam.co.uk/. Arcam is distributed in the US by Audiophile Systems, http://www.aslgroup.com/. Please change the post, it is not just misleading, it is factually inaccurate.

[Russ @ May 24th 2006 3:22PM]

Some previous posters are right. The DAC is far more important than the actual CD player (which is a totally digital component). I actually ripped all my CDs into FLAC (lossless audio format) and use a $30 sound card to output the optical digital signal to a $750 external vacuum tube digital/audio converter (California Audio Labs Sigma II). If you put money anywhere in a digital sound system, it should be with the DAC. Of course, the amp and speakers deserve attention too, but I think live audio beats any stereo system (maybe some electronica aside!)....

[EatingPie @ May 24th 2006 10:49PM]

Just to clarify my initial comment... I use the Denon DVD-A/SACD player, but I never use it for 5.1 output. I run stereo analog outs to either a Berning MicroZOTL or a Musical Fidelity XCANs V3 to Sennheiser 650s.

Indeed I agree the DAC is imperative. However, Denon (internal DAC)/XCAN v3/HD650 with SACD has produced the best sound I've ever heard.

So I really don't think the "DVD comment" -- assumeing it was mine! -- was not silly (even if I use SACD most often)! :)

-Pie

[smudley @ May 25th 2006 8:46AM]

yowza... well seein how you fellas know so much about denon , DACs, and the like can anyone set me on the right path?
Ive have my eye on DENON AVR3806 OR 4306 for some time now and would like to now your collective thoughts...
My comcast, pc, 360, ps3, and Bossgt6 (guitar effects processor) are all gonna be jacked up to it. I see xm in my future as well