Sony calls an end to battery recalls

Far be it from Sony to pre-announce future battery recalls and further dampen its Q3/4 financial woes even further, they're trying to get the word out that Sony's own laptop line won't be affected by the same battery recalls that have pulled back nearly six million Dell and Apple cells. Still, this isn't entirely good news for their business; does this mean that Sony's been keeping all the best manufactured batteries for their own machines, passing off lesser cells -- maybe even those that didn't pass muster -- to their partners? Yeah, we'd really want to get all cozy with a parts OEM that does that kind of stuff, one that might end up possibly endangering our own customers in the process. Cheers!

[blackout @ Aug 26th 2006 8:26AM]

sony are wangs.
what did you really expect?

[Perrey Z. @ Aug 26th 2006 8:27AM]

It won't surprise me if that was the case. Still, OEM, ODM and SKD business deserves top of the line quality products, at the same quality level of standards than those found on proprietary products. OEM/ODM/SKD customers are paying for these SKUs, is nor like Sony or any other OEM is giving it for free.

Coming up next: Business 2 Business lawsuits., Dell and all the others involve will take those cheap Japanese bastards and clean their fiscal year earnings for pulling a trick like this.

[Intrepid @ Aug 26th 2006 8:46AM]

"sony are wangs.
what did you really expect?"
Yes...yes they are. "People want BetaMAX, DVD+R, MemoryStick ProDuoMicroEtc and BluRay". Shut-up Sony, let some intelligent companies steer the industry.

[SteveZ @ Aug 26th 2006 9:14AM]

I heard somewhere that Sony actually does NOT use their own Sony batteries in Vaios.
haha thats their confidence in their product.
I think they use Toshiba or Hitachi manufactured batteries instead.

[PEZ @ Aug 26th 2006 9:19AM]

OK, so dont buy a sony, dell or apple. Whos left? HP sucks!

Maybe I will get a OLPC machine! Imagine if THOSE went up in smoke. Dayum.

[Phil @ Aug 26th 2006 9:46AM]

I believe the lesson here is to BUY a Sony laptop and you will be safe.

[morty salt @ Aug 26th 2006 10:10AM]

This is one of the few times that I believe a lawsuit against Sony or anyone is justifiable. Apple nor Dell asked Sony to manufacture faulty batteries but Sony knew that these batteries could have a flaw. Thankfully Apple is using Sony's newer less prone to bring down a 747 battery. I can't believe that Apple or Sony would have to foot the bill for any of these batteries.

[tennis guy @ Aug 26th 2006 10:32AM]

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It's very common in the industry for an OEM to not use its own internal supplier for components. Sony VAIO was no doubt using non-Sony cells in its machines. Toshiba notebooks don't use Toshiba cells. I would attribute it to internal rivalries within the company and not because the VAIO boys knew anything was amiss with Sony cells.
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[GhostDoggy @ Aug 26th 2006 11:12AM]

Intrepid, "Shut-up Sony, let some intelligent companies steer the industry."

Yeah, like Toshiba and there less than disk mastered HD DVD resolution that got not game as it cannot output the full resolution on the disk. That's the leader I'm looking to follow off the side of the bridge. I'm sure Sony was the only company to release problem products.

[Jonathan Suter @ Aug 26th 2006 11:45AM]

No, it isn't that Sony is keeping the best product for themselves - it has to do with how the laptops are constructed (and by which company).

Laptop batteries are actually made up of two components - a voltage filter and the battery itself. When your laptop is plugged in to the wall, pumping 120V in to a battery that is designed to take ~4V requires, obviously, a reduction in the volatge. The battery filter is just one of the pieces that enable this voltage step-down. Cheap and defective filters = exploding batteries. (In other words, your battery will only 'explode' when your laptop is plugged in).

Since Sony is a Japanese company, and outlets in Japan pump out way more voltage than their N/A counterparts (240V), Sony builds in, at additional cost, an additional voltage filter. So if the primary filter on the battery fails, Sony has a back-up system.

This is why Sony doesn't need to recall batteries for their laptops. It has nothing to do with Sony getting the better parts.

[Justin Streufert @ Aug 26th 2006 11:56AM]

Um...above poster is full of an astounding level of crap.

The line voltage is stepped down to a small DC voltage by the big old power brick that you plug into your laptop. The SAME DC voltage no matter whether you are in Japan or America or Outer Mongolia.

I've never heard of a "voltage filter." There are certainly regulators and charge controllers involved in feeding a battery the correct current so it doesn't explode, but in this case it really does seem to be the battery cells themselves which are at fault.

[Jonathan @ Aug 26th 2006 12:13PM]

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/0,39023100,39281143,00.htm

The regulator circuits are more likely to fail the more voltage headed their way. There are additional regulators in Japanese laptops - ones that are not found in North American laptops (Dell, Apple).

[Byrd @ Aug 26th 2006 12:47PM]

"... they're trying to get the word out that Sony's own laptop line won't be affected by the same battery recalls that have pulled back nearly six million Dell and Apple cells."

Not surprised that they're out there with these communications or that they're computers aren't burning up. I read that they have a recommended confuiguration that some companies just don't acknowledge because, well, they do things they're own way. Anywho - I'm not an engineer, so I can't really explain it, but here's what I read:

"Sony said the Dell and Apple batteries were configured in slightly different ways [than other companies that use the batteries, including Lenova and Sony]. In a statement, it said the problems arise "on rare occasions" when microscopic metal particles hit other parts of the battery cell and lead to a short circuit.

"Spokespeople at other large computer makers, including Hewlett-Packard Co., Gateway Inc. and Lenovo Group, the Chinese computer maker that bought IBM's PC business, said Thursday they did not expect to have problems with their batteries.

Although Lenovo uses Sony batteries, Lenovo engineers configured their battery packs differently than Dell or Apple. They also rigorously tested the battery packs with Sony engineers, and they're "highly confident" the laptops aren't going to overheat.

"Lenovo designs its battery packages a different way," said Lenovo spokesman Bob Page. "How close the battery pack is it to a heat source, how evenly can you keep the heat in battery cells, the basic geometric arrangement of the cell - all those things affect whether there will be problems."

... Sounds like Sony and Dell aren't really doing their due dilligence. They're not paying attention to the intended use and installation of the batteries and, in turn, increasing the risk of something screwing up. Surprised that Dell would do this, but they might do anything to keep costs down (choose specific ways to piece things together, cut back on rounds of testing, etc.). Not surprised with Apple... I can't imagine them working with anyone else to do rigorous testing (every apple product I've ever had suffered a ton of problems) for fear of leaking product info (design) or letting a silly thing like safety come in the way of groundbreaking design, or some claim to extended battery life.

... yeah... listen to me... as I sit here bombin on Apple from my powerbook G4 and await my new battery... Just so happens that I love my G4. Seriously... and even if it burned up tomorrow, I'd get another one. I kinda resent Apple, though. I don't like feeling that a product that I paid a premium to get is old news after 6 months. Whatever. Good times.

[Wyatt_Z @ Aug 26th 2006 12:50PM]

"I heard somewhere..."

My new FE series Vaio has a Sony manufactured cell.

[tennis guy @ Aug 26th 2006 1:14PM]

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Jonathan:

You clearly know nothing about electronics or batttery design. AC mains voltage in Japan is 100VAC, which is LOWER than North American 120VAC. Also, there's no such thing as a "voltage filter." Laptop batteries are charged with a 1% accurate voltage regualtor fed by a universal (100-240 VAC) switch mode power supply with a DC output in the range of 12-20 volts, depending on the system design.

In the Sony case, all this is irrelevant however. The cellls fail from an INTERNAL SHORT caused by metal particles. It doesn't matter how you charge, or if you're charging it. Also, the Levovo statements about the battery design being somehow different are pure crap. They just don't want to recall their packs yet. They may change their mind once their packs start going "poof" too.
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[K_G @ Aug 26th 2006 1:43PM]

Well, we'll see how this turns out in the legal process...but given that Vaios usually sell for $200 or so more than similar Dells, there might be an issue of Sony saying to Dell... Battery A is cheaper but more expensive Battery B has less of a chance of problems, and Dell picked Battery A for their units and Sony, with a bigger margins, opted for battery B. I can't see Sony being competent enough to do a black ops job of secretly switching good for bad batteries for their own units...I suspect it there is a much simpler answer...Sony put the most expensive, highest quality units in their own units and others bought cheaper versions. As Engadet pointed out earlier, the margins on batteries are huge, so a certain failure rate might actually be beneficial to the bottom line (batteries being a murky gray area between the user and the manufacturer and often not covered under warranty), although not when they go kaabang like the ones in question.

[stewart @ Aug 26th 2006 2:05PM]

It is probably more like that the Sony notebooks battery were not included in the batch were part of batch bunch.

Also not all Dell Notebooks are part of this - only a selection of them - it is important to check your battery serial # with dell. I assume Apple is similar. I know that none of our work Impirion 9400's were effected.

Also this never stop news is nothing new.. Last year HP had a similar issue with its batteries.

[Andy @ Aug 26th 2006 2:34PM]

As the PS3 debacle (yes I think it has been a debacle) had progressed I predicted that Sony was putting itself on a long road to failure. Sony is a huge successful company and the PS3 failing would of course not be enough to tank the entire company, and failure in this since is still selling a LOT of systems. People still balk at the idea of Sony having trouble.

It would take much mroe than the PS3 'failing' but as each day passes there is more and more that is putting Sony on a road to destruction. Bad batteries in the millions and if they are indeed doing what this article suggests that is huge. They rootkits marring their name. Bad publicity left and right from Advertising campaigns to these different issues. Blu-Ray WILL fail, and thats not to say HD DVD will succeed. UMDs failed and the PSP hasn't done too well. Their Mp3 Players sucks and again more proprietary formats.

Sony has a big foot and their aim is pretty good. How many times can they shoot it until the company isn't the company we know today?

[Richard @ Aug 26th 2006 2:42PM]

tennis guy:
You're not wrong but not entirely right either. Yes, the explosions were partly to do with the metal particles, but also the higher voltage across the charging faulty batteries inside the American machines paid a contribution too.

I won't mention any parts names here, and I don't know if such voltage restriction is present in the battery or the actual machines, but the basic idea is that American machines like Dells and Macs and HPs allow a certain magnitude of voltage across the battery when charging switched-off; Japanese manufacturers are more cautious and have kept a lower voltage across the batteries. This is why no Japanese machines have caught fire (bar a 4-year old Sony recently, but the battery was an earlier model) even if they had used some of the faulty Sony batteries too (less voltage, fewer short-circuits inside the faulty batteries, hence less heat, hence less chance of over-heating then explode); Dell, HP and Apple all have had some nasty burns though.

[Matt @ Aug 27th 2006 5:54AM]

First CCD for the camera industry, now batteries for the laptop computer industry, beware other Sony component customers......

[Ted Lemon @ Aug 27th 2006 5:28PM]

The point about Sony designing batteries differently with respect to proximity to heat sources is actually valid. I've had several Vaios; in each of them, the battery is essentially isolated - it's in the back of the computer, right under the screen, nowhere near the CPU. It's in a long bar; Apples and Dells are in a square configuration, and are closer to the parts of the computer that get hot. Also, Apple has historically run their CPUs hotter, with less fan - one of my big complaints about the VAIO is that the fan is always running, but I guess there's an upside to that.

Personally, I'd still rather have a Macbook, but I wouldn't be too upset if Apple decided to change the battery configuration. We've had two batteries recalled so far, and while Apple's been really good about it, it makes me cringe a little to think of all those batteries going into the bin.

[Richard @ Aug 27th 2006 8:06PM]

I agree with Ted regarding the disposal of the faulty batteries. I wonder how they are treated?

[johnp@dell @ Aug 27th 2006 8:15PM]

There still seems to be a bit of confusion over whether Dell's system architecture had a bearing on the rare incidents in which our notebooks overheated: Here's what the company has to say: http://www.direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/08/22/2149.aspx

[tekdemon @ Aug 28th 2006 4:37AM]

Jonathan, what the heck are you using to make these ridiculous statements. For one thing, the same laptops that get shipped to the EU and the UK are also shipped to the USA-they have the same power hardware in all of them.

In fact, even the AC adapter brick is usually the exact same model for 110V and 220V countries-the only difference is the connector plug that gets plugged into it. That's why you a lot of power bricks that have disconnectable cables at the end with the wire that runs to the socket-they use the same adapter with different cables around the world.

Seriously where do you even make this crap up from. 90%+ of ALL consumer electronics are designed for both 110V and 220V, just look at the back of whatever electronics you own. Only on very rare occasions you'll see devices labeled for both that don't actually work properly in one or ther other, because it's actually cheaper for most large manufacturers to just build everything the same and switch out one wire instead of building different versions for the different voltages.

[Paul @ Aug 28th 2006 1:37PM]

My dell laptop is not affected so it is not all dell laptops. My laptop was bought in the time period that dell says problems occur in but their website says that its not affected. Neither of my 2 batteries are affected

[ryan @ Aug 28th 2006 5:48PM]

After reading the FAQ on the Dell site I am reminded that this technology is achieved through advanced enginering with low tolerances. "Sony are wangs" get out of here these devices are increadably complex and one thing going wrong can ruin the whole thing. People are stupid thinking that Sony is activly trying to ruin their company and hurt customers. They are running their business as best as they can. If you read the Dell FAQ Billins of these, Li-ion, have been shipped with only dozens of malfunctions. Stop beating a dead horse and look at the real issue. Dell and Apple sat on this for a while before dooing the recall. Sony is just helping foot the bill. Apple lost alot of the Consumer cred by comming out after Dell on this one.

[George @ Aug 28th 2006 9:28PM]

THE NUMBERS DONT ADD UP...and WHATS THIS PICTURE???
Curious between Dell and Apple seems to be about 30% of Sony's production still in the marketplace...so whats going on. The numbers dont add up. So, Dell leads, Apple (that great consumer brand follows Dell)....and "others -- namely HP -- have publicly distanced themselves from the affair by stating that "It's a Dell issue." (as quoted on this site).

Really??????

So, no Burning Laptop issues at HP? check this out:

http://expressen.se/index.jsp?d=10&a=578852
May 2006, Stockholm paper, HP Pavililion zd 8180EA laptop bought in 2005...the article references batteries as the issue....

[Richard Lai @ Aug 29th 2006 7:55PM]

George,

You're right: it's not just a Dell issue; it's an "American laptops" issue. The Japanese have played safe and only allow a lower voltage across the batteries compared to the American laptops. I have heard of that HP case a few weeks ago.

[Bob Smith @ Sep 8th 2006 3:56AM]

"Apple lost alot of the Consumer cred by comming out after Dell on this one."

Actually check your facts, Apple had a battery recall of some of the batteries far prior (since at least mid 2005) to Dell of many of the sony batteries. The big announced recall was actually just an expansion of the range of batteries being recalled as Apple found out (due to the investigations of Sony and Dell) that a larger range of batteries was affected. Dell waited till tons of laptops exploded before doing a recall. How many Apple's did you see exploding before they issued the voluntary expansion of the recall?

Not to say Apple is perfect but at least they were already trying to do everything to make sure consumers weren't getting bad batteries. Sony is to blame in this case.