Apple acknowledges MacBook random shutdown problem

Oh, Apple, must you be so coy? For those of you who haven't been keeping score at home, since their debut, some folks have reported that their MacBooks are turning off completely out of the blue, which is, erm, bad. Over at TUAW, they've been chronicling this problem for the last few weeks and have posted a possible explanation to this problem's cause, and an unofficial test to see if your MacBook might be susceptible. Today, TUAW informs us of Apple's first official comment on the issue: "If your MacBook is shutting down intermittently, please contact AppleCare for service." Thanks, Apple -- that's about as helpful as telling us to remove our hand from an exploding PowerBook battery.

[Via TUAW]

[Camperton @ Sep 7th 2006 4:42PM]

and how many people are having this problem? maybe 10 in 100,000?

[Chocolate Starfish @ Sep 7th 2006 4:46PM]

Just like a BSOD, but with less style.

[Deezee @ Sep 7th 2006 4:57PM]

But wait a minute! According to the commercials I've seen lately, only PC's freeze up, Apples never do that. They work "right out of the box". They cant say that in a commercial if its not true right? I mean Justin Long seems so trust worthy.

[Scott @ Sep 7th 2006 5:00PM]

Wha??? Macs have problems? I am shocked and....awed at the presentation of this problem.

[Macbook user @ Sep 7th 2006 5:03PM]

I don't think it is 10 in 100,000. We have two in our office, purchased a month apart from different channels and both have developed this problem. YMMV.

The repair seems to be replacing both the logic board and the heat sink.

[dysonlu @ Sep 7th 2006 5:05PM]

And how many Sony batteries actually caught fire out of millions? That didn't stop Apple zealots and Dell haters from flaming Dell and Sony for that... until of course Apple admitted that they too were using the faulty batteries.

[disciple83 @ Sep 7th 2006 5:06PM]

But the Apple computer now runs PC parts, seems kinda like they shot themselves in the foot, (face, whatever). Wait, nvm, people who buy Apple computers don't care if they commit acts of fraudulent advertising, the iMac is just so flippin' cool they don't care what it actually does.

Kinda like video games, companies have been running pre-rendered videos on their commercials claiming actualy gameplay footage that no one seems to care when they actually buy their game and it looks like crap.

[chuck @ Sep 7th 2006 5:12PM]

Campterton, don't be so ignorant and assume this isn't a major problem. This is a fairly widespread issue. In fact, when I was at the Apple store getting my macbook fixed (was having this issue), the person next to me had the SAME exact problem. That alone says something. This issue actually took two tries to fix, which was really disappointing. The first time I took it in, they refused to repair it and would only replace it, despite the fact that I was specifically told that they could replace it when I called. (They said they could only do it at the store I bought it from though, so I had to drive all the way from the suburbs into downtown Chicago and pay $30 for parking. ($15 to drop it off, and $15 when picking it up). Then, 2 weeks after getting the computer back (it was in the shop for 11 days- they initally told me only 3-5), I started having the same problems again. Thankfully, this time, they were willing to replace it. I'm still disappointed in the overall experience. Considering the hassle I went through, I feel like I at least deserved a ram upgrade or accessory discount- anything, really, just as an apology for the huge hassle I went through.

[disciple83 @ Sep 7th 2006 5:12PM]

Actually, its more like this, Apple starts putting PC components in their machines, and suddenly problems develop. What's a fanboy gonna say? "You're stupid PC parts tore up my Mac! PCs are stupid, why do you have to come ruin our stuff just cuz you can't get your crap to work?"

It goes back to being greedy little Stevie. Way to be a tool, fanboy.

[ronnie @ Sep 7th 2006 5:15PM]

mine started doing this 2 months in, sent it out for a week, got a new motherboard, heatsink, bezel, plastics and the problem came back much worse a week later. They refuse to replace it and now I'm on hold waiting for parts. If I get it back and its still broken I'm buying a thinkpad and filing for the price of the machine in my local small claims court.

The idea that apple is going to field a lawyer to a town court is slim to nil, and if they do my local judge will probably rule for me anyway.

[begbie @ Sep 7th 2006 5:28PM]

"and how many people are having this problem? maybe 10 in 100,000?"

My sister, a machead, thinks that way, too. People who blindly worship a company will never admit that the king wears no clothes. Apple doesn't manufacture their own hardware so they are at the mercy of part suppliers for reliability. Toyota is suffering the same problem now with recalls because of faulty auto parts. The worst thing for a machead to do is to refuse to believe in any reliabilty issue because the fewer complaints, the more likely Apple will produce shoddier products.

[Eli @ Sep 7th 2006 5:29PM]

Kevin, shut up. If I wanted news without commentary I'd just read Wired or something.

Engadget is generally written by overly trendy quasi-journalists whose definition of the word "hack" makes me cringe, but the reason I keep coming back is that they do take the time to comment on the news instead of just reporting it.

[Juaquin @ Sep 7th 2006 5:30PM]

Ummm all the "test" does is put a 100% load on both cores of the processor to test if it will shut down. If it shuts down during this, it's because your CPU temp has skyrocketed past acceptable levels and it shuts itself down to prevent flames and such. That doesn't sound "random" - that's overheating. This test tests for overheating, not random failure. You can't test for something RANDOM.

Maybe Apple didn't provide enough cooling, but it doesn't sound so much a flaw or problem as a normal electronics-don't-like-high-temps situation - at least for this specific test. Has anyone experienced it shutting down when they weren't putting stress on the processor?

[ronnie @ Sep 7th 2006 5:33PM]

mine wouldnt start cold with out resetting a few seconds in somtimes. Waking up from sleep it would often shutdown minutes later. Just simple browsing or emailing it shuts down. Meanwhile i could edit video and it would run fine or shutdown. Its random and doesn't require a huge stress.

[Juaquin @ Sep 7th 2006 5:36PM]

Yeah if it's shutting down when it's not under stress then Apple definitely screwed something up.

Just to echo everyone else:

"I thought Apple's didn't crash? That's what the commercial said..."

Take that, you smug Apple bastard.

[Ron Rocco @ Apr 7th 2007 2:19AM]

Hi, I'm one of those smug Apple bastards, but I call a spade a spade. I'm a musician who had his Macbook Pro shutdown and restart 13 times in one performance. Extremely embarassing. I still think Apple is the best computer company, and I still think they are the best machines, however, this is serious. I know it's been a major blow to my confidence. I hope they resolve it. My friend is a very good tech at the Apple store where I bought mine. He assured me that it was the battery (warped), and I have been running it for 4 hours, and it shutdown once. That's unacceptable. Especially when your performing for live audiences. That's just entertainment. What about more serious life applications. I have six Macs in my home, and no PC's I hope it stays that way. Hell I can run Window, but I only do twice a year, but still, this IS SERIOUS.

[Keeping Secret @ Sep 7th 2006 5:37PM]

I work at an Apple Campus Reseller, and this is a BIG problem. We've taken back 20% of the MacBooks we sold this back to school period. Yes, 20%. No, I'm not exaggerating.

We knew this was a major problem when Apple started to not question us when we declared these machines DOA. Usually they put up a fuss.

I've been told that there is a super secret list of serial number ranges of machines affected. I don't have access to the list, though.

[disciple83 @ Sep 7th 2006 5:42PM]

Time to dig out old commercial parodies....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rEvYETWVK6M

[glacia00 @ Sep 7th 2006 5:49PM]

"The heat sink expands when operating the MacBook, which causes it to contact the heat sensor's cable and melt its insulation"

If this is the problem does anyone know if this is a situation where some percentage were manufactured incorrectly or were all of them made this way and it's simply a matter of how long does it take your insulation to melt and make contact with the heatsink?

If all were built this way it may not be a matter of if your machine will fail but when. Some machines might take a year to melt through some could happen right away some may never melt through. Some might melt and never short to the heasink. The difference could litterally be a millimeter of distance.

Also even a single shorting can cause components to degrade and yet not immediately fail. If other components are stressed by the high current those components might last years or days before they too could fail.

[Nick Krushelnisky @ Sep 7th 2006 5:57PM]

I had this problem, and I bought my Macbookt he day after it was released.

It first started after about 2 weeks, but I thought it was just a freak accident so I went on. It didn't happen for anoter week, and then it started doing it repeatedly, sometimes not even allowing me to power it back on.

When I first took it in, it shut down in the 'Genius's' face, and he blamed it on 3rd party software I had installed. He then continued to run it on his copy of OS X off of an iPod. He ran the CPU stress test, no problems there. He told me to reinstall OS X and see if it helps.

I go home, and after three (3!) tries, OS X was sucessfully reinstalled. At the setup/welcome screen, it happened. I freaked out. I happened to be going to Europe the next day at 6 AM, and could't get my Macbook fixed for the trip!
So, I spend three weeks without my laptop, while I sit and watch my friend on his Powerbook type away into the night (Oh how I wish I could have!)

I come home, (Luckily I was the last flight out of Heathrow before the little bomb incedent) and go into the Apple store the next day.
I'm so pissed off, I just tell the guy, give me a new damn laptop. I told my story, he said he'd never heard of it before (He had to be lying, for whatever reason, because he is one of the smartest guys there, I see him all the time) and he takes it into the back, says it might' be the logic board, but it'll cost $890.63 to repair if it gets sent off since I dropped it and dinged up one corner of it. (I pretty much start crying now)

Anyways, I got him to repair it 'in house' and they fixed it within about a week, and it's worked fine for me.
But he sure seemed hesitant to replace it for me, even though it was obviously the logic board and I told him to check the Apple forums

bah

[DrThaddeusVenture @ Sep 7th 2006 6:00PM]

"Apple doesn't manufacture their own hardware so they are at the mercy of part suppliers for reliability."

If they are then shame on them. This is sounding much more like a design problem and the design is 100% in-house. And no company is a spectator even when manufacturing offshore. The company I work for manufactures everything offshore and we have people on the floor every day. Every step of the assembly is defined by us and overseen by us. Plus all of the functionality & reliability testing is our design. If they claim they're victims of their manufacturing it's still their fault.

[Dave. @ Sep 7th 2006 6:03PM]

So Apple gets demerits for ignoring the problem. Then when they acknowledge the problem and tell people to contact them to fix it they also get demerits?

What do you want/expect?

[david @ Sep 7th 2006 6:05PM]

my macbook shuts down like crazy.. it is not typically during high usage, it shuts down most often after being woken up from sleep mode. apple has no clue how to fix this (check the apple.com boards under random shutdown)

i have called to apple care and they say they dont know what the prob is but they will try to get it fixed. no way i'm sending off my laptop for weeeks for them to experiment. once they figure out what is actually happening, then i'll send off for repair.

i have already had to have a new macbook sent out to me because the original ate a cd and wouldnt spit it out.

it's been one heck of an introduction to the mac world.

[Harris @ Sep 7th 2006 6:34PM]

"But the Apple computer now runs PC parts"

Thats funny, I always thought Asus made Apple's laptops.

Anyways, who cares if the Macbook shuts down randomly, macs aren't used for productivity, no, it's used to look good while you go edit your myspace profile and do what hipsters and cool, sylish people usually do.

[geno @ Sep 7th 2006 6:41PM]

My MacBook is in for service right now with the problem. And the repair is on-hold waiting for parts.

[Tomy @ Sep 7th 2006 6:54PM]

It just goes to show that apple releases crappy products without working out all the bugs, in order to make as much money as they can in a short time.

[nikster @ Sep 7th 2006 7:32PM]

Apple has a quality control problem. This actually started before Intel, I took back my last-every Powerbook model about 3 times for different issues. This was a last-generation machine so you would think it would not have any problems, but no.

I had random freezes every day one day until I took out the RAM and put it back in. There is something wrong with the RAM slots so the RAM can get dislodged easily. I never had this problem with another laptop.

I had to have the LCD replaced because it had faint horizontal stripes. Couldn't really see that except up close but the effect was crappy image quality.

The MacBook Pros got way too hot for a pretty long time - like, almost all of them. And the MacBooks shut down randomly.

Each of those issues - bad LCDs, heat, and random shutdown - was wide-spread. Quality control at Apple is in bad shape.

OS X is rock-solid, but unfortunately it sits on top of crap hardware... beautiful design, great features, great prices - but where's the QA dept.? Apple used to make grade A hardware, stuff that would never break.

I will buy the next gen MacBook Pro but this time I will wait at least 45 days and scour the forums for problems before buying anything.

[Matt @ Sep 7th 2006 7:59PM]

Or you could just buy a Thinkpad T60 up front, throw a good linux distro on, and never have another problem again.

[TexRob @ Sep 7th 2006 8:25PM]

My iMac does this, and I thought it was a stupid Windows XP problem because it only ever happens when I am playing a game in Win XP. I think if this theory is true, it would make sense since it's when I am taxing the computer bigtime playing BF2 that is usually happens and it's running hot. However, if this problem with my iMac is the same problem, it does not explain why after restarting I can jump straight back into BF2 and it will be fine for a long time. The restart thing has happened maybe 7-10 times, and I game in Win XP on it almost daily. It has only happned in Win XP, not while running OSX, but again, I never tax it much while running OSX.

[mike @ Sep 7th 2006 8:54PM]

can the problem be something related to the software?

for example, one time I installed on my macbook norton antivirus and every single day my laptop was crashing on 12pm...

Btw, I bought this mac book in june and I never had this problem fortunatly!

[Enriqueamigo @ Sep 7th 2006 8:56PM]

Soooo, what is different between the Pro and the Macbook? Why does one have this obviously large problem, and one does not?

[TimB @ Sep 7th 2006 9:07PM]

I've got the same issue with my MacBook Pro. And it has nothing to do with stressing the system.

It can be up for five minutes using Word and crash... or five hours playing World of Warcraft and not crash.

Apple should die.

[Nick @ Sep 7th 2006 9:23PM]

begbie wrote: "Apple doesn't manufacture their own hardware so they are at the mercy of part suppliers for reliability. "

The second part of that statement is flat out wrong! Apple specifies the parts to buy, or does the actual buying itself. Then the components go to the factory for assembly.

[Harris @ Sep 7th 2006 9:40PM]

It amazes me how fanboys (you know who you are) flame Dell laptops for their bland styling while their new, cool, hip laptop randomly shuts down inconsisently. Once again, i'll take functionality and quality over style.

[peej @ Sep 7th 2006 9:44PM]

I love to OS but Apple co is the douchenozzle of the computer world.

I'm having the same problem with my macbook. Sent it to them for repair, they took 2 weeks to replace the motherboard while my thesis was on hold. Had it for one day and then it wouldn't start up the next morning.

Off to apple for another week, thesis still on hold. When I got it back it worked for about 2 weeks until I tried to run a processor intensive simulation. At least in shutdown consistently. Now it's off to apple again and my thesis is on hold again. I wish I could charge them for my lost productivity. Bastards...

[JohnnyC @ Sep 7th 2006 11:14PM]

I would just like to point out the recent news that Apple is the number one computer manufacturer in US customer satisfaction. http://www.theacsi.org/second_quarter.htm#per

I'm sure everyone's scores will drop a little thanks to SONY's fireworks, but all I'm saying is that computers have faults. ALL makes, brands, and components will always have faults. Even NASA can't get a shuttle to launch on time... 3 times in a row!

[Jordan @ Sep 7th 2006 11:21PM]

Mine hasn't done it at all.

In fact, it's been absolutely flawless in every way, and I am in love with it.

That is all. :)

[iTard @ Sep 8th 2006 2:42AM]

I can't believe Apple fans still use the quality argument after all this crap.
Face it, you just buy apple because it's cool. Or rather hot actually. Overheated, even.

[Camperton @ Sep 8th 2006 2:50AM]

It was a rhetorical question, based on the quote from the article "some folks have reported that their MacBooks are turning off completely out of the blue". What I wanted to know was if it was widespread or just a few people with a blogs who happened to have the faulty units.

You accuse me of being ignorant and a fanboy based on one inoccuous sentence. Give me a break.

Wouldn't it be easier to just answer my query, without flying off the handle and insulting me. Morons.

[disciple83 @ Sep 8th 2006 9:37AM]

Well, your sentence wasn't that incoccuous. You should have actually thought about the reprocussions of saying something as assuming and irresponsible as

"and how many people are having this problem? maybe 10 in 100,000?" and instead, maybe asked in way like:

"geez, I wonder if this is just an overrated, isolated incident cited by the Mac-haters at engadget or if this is a big deal? It would be cool to see some real numbers based on mass number. I haven't noticed anything like that on my MBP, I wonder what the rest of the mac community has to say?"

Then, you wouldn't seem like such an arrogant deuchebag fanboy. Way to be the stereotype, tool.

[kansei @ Sep 8th 2006 10:11AM]

A good friend of mine had this happen with his macbook. He went to get it fixed and the Apple store VOIDED HIS WARRANTY because his computer had Linux on it. IDIOTS

[motech @ Sep 8th 2006 10:46AM]

boy,
pc haters and mac haters.
anyone ever gonna relax?

hardware is hardware.
but an operating system is unique.
thats what makes a mac a mac,
that and the product design and innovation.

i think one of the problems is apple had to design new logic boards
based on intel chips with which they have very little experience.

that or just a manufacturing flaw.
either way,
it happened to mine and apple replaced the blackbook on the spot
in one of their stores.

you can hate all you want,
but apple does give ppl a generally better user experience.

[glavia00 @ Sep 8th 2006 11:04AM]

motech

I was cheering you on at first when it sounded like you were calling for peace and then you decided what the hell and tossed gas on the flames.

[disciple83 @ Sep 8th 2006 11:57AM]

I know this is a freak accident, I have never heard a case similar, in anything, PC, mac, zen, sansa, whatever. I had a 30GB iPod. It worked with minor discrepencies, (iTunes does a poor job sorting music when it comes to Soundtracks, which I have a ton of). But i'll be darned if one random day the audio card in it shorted out and left something all over the port, which I didn't even realize until I took it to the local makeshift Apple store here. (My initial compaint was the audio jack was busted, turned out to be the whole audio system)

The "Apple Representative" who not only claimed to be some fancy Apple rep from Silicon Valley but also a major stockholder and owner of the store, (of which the last I almost believed, and the rest was preposterous) told me that the next time I try to peddle my neglected warez, (which he refused to acknowledge the warranty), in his store again, he would have be have me arrested for fraud. All i asked the guy was whether or not he would take a look at it and see if I could get some warranty work done. He thinks I would intentionally short out my $300 player to piss him off? Oh yea, customer service from Apple is top notch.

Needless to say, it took 3 weeks to get it fixed, (they claimed it was because they were waiting for Apple to send the parts, and then they tried to charge me for the parts and labor and the service fee required as part of the warranty cuz it was after 90 days. I had to get a written copy of my warranty and shove it in his face before he would drop the fee down to the standard service charge for the after 90 days thing. That kinda crap makes me wanna dig out my CD player again.

[ash @ Sep 8th 2006 12:38PM]

Definitely way more than just 10 in 100,000 affected. A MacInTouch survey came up with a 10% figure (http://techpaedia.com/apple/2006/09/01/10-of-macbooks-13-have-random-shutdown/)

Considering this is an issue that only surfaces about 2 months after first using the MacBook, that percentage could well be a lot higher.

Also, looking at the possible causes of this problem, it would indicate a design flaw, not an odd glitch which means most (if not all) MacBooks have (or will soon have) the problem.

http://techpaedia.com/apple/2006/09/05/random-shutdown-possible-cause/

[tk @ Sep 8th 2006 2:32PM]

My MB moos but luckily does not shut down. It has the red color issue but ill hold off til it gets really bad.

[Camperton @ Sep 8th 2006 4:17PM]

disciple83

if I'm living up to a stereotype, then so are you. congratulations.

[ElectroGeek @ Sep 8th 2006 4:30PM]

There ya go. Another perfectly good reason why you should buy a PC or a laptop that runs Winblows. uh Windows.

[Ryan @ Sep 9th 2006 12:26AM]

I got a mabook but in never turned off...but i hope it doesn't do that.

[Z @ Sep 9th 2006 5:51PM]

Is it just me, or is Apple having a LOT of problems these days. Everytime I turn around, they're having another problem with this or that.

So much for superior technology. And although their OS and software are great, their computer hardware (especially their laptops) is completely uninspiring to me.

In the meantime, I think Apple is in dire need of some additional quality control.

Maybe they should just focus on Ipods and writing software for the PC market (more money for them).