Hapless tipster James bet his brother $150 last March that the Apple
iPhone "would come out before March of 2007." He's apparently been talking the trash, especially with all the recent Macworld rumorings, but was dealt a low blow by Steve's announcement yesterday of a June availability. Now his bro wants him to pay up like the sucker he is, but James wants a second opinion. Does an announcement count for "out," or does James need to have one in his hands? Since we're still a little bleary eyed from Macworld and CES coverage, we've decided to pass the question on to you, oh insightful readers.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
overcast @ Jan 10th 2007 10:36AM
Well it's not March 2007 , so why does this even matter.
Simon P @ Jan 10th 2007 10:37AM
If it's not out, then it's not out. Pay up Jim Bob.
Chris @ Jan 10th 2007 10:38AM
I think you need another vote option there. it's possible that the FCC will approve it quickly and Apple with have it for sale earier than June, so even taking side the of "it's not out until you can buy one", he still hasn't lost yet, not until March 31st.
Matt @ Jan 10th 2007 10:55AM
He actually loses February 28th, not March 31st.
Christian Martin @ Jan 10th 2007 11:55AM
Mo' like 12 midnight on February 28, given the original wording of "before March."
I agree; no self-respecting mobster would haul out the Quikrete for heavy footwear creation near a body of water until then.
andy @ Jan 10th 2007 10:43AM
It depends on whether they were betting on the iPhone or the apple phone.
The iPhone was out in '06; they're available now from Cisco.
I think it's a called draw. Apple has released the phone in final form, and is probably mfg right now full tilt, but the FCC is holding up the 'for sale' date. I think they should just cancel.
GJP303 @ Jan 10th 2007 4:36PM
"Hapless tipster James bet his brother $150 last March that the Apple iPhone "would come out before March of 2007." "
They were obviously talking about Apple iPhone. Not Cisco iPhone.
Dae @ Jan 10th 2007 10:44AM
Wait. wait wait. the phone could come out tomorrow. lets just wait to March until payday
BLee @ Jan 10th 2007 10:46AM
Apple could release it earli... pft.. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... sorry..
well... erm, just wait til March anyways.. ;)
DeaPeaJay @ Jan 10th 2007 10:55AM
Actually, I doubt it will be released before June, which is when I think Leopard will probably be released too. During the keynote when he was describing what OS X had he included Core Animation. Now, isn't that a leopard technology? If so, the iPhone is running leopard and will probably be released when leopard is through with testing. He said FCC approval takes 2 months, if that were the only holdup it'd be released in late february or march wouldn't it?
Castle @ Jan 10th 2007 10:57AM
What is this crap? Why are we settling bets for a bunch of teenagers.
Viper @ Jan 10th 2007 11:03AM
Im kinda confused of the iPhone vs iPod situation. Does this mean that the iPhone will basically take over the current iPod hardware and make it harder for us to just HAVE an mp3? or will there still be the seperate and always stylish iPod? and does this mean the end for the 5.5G, Nano, and Shuffle?
Michael Bailey @ Jan 10th 2007 11:06AM
I would say that it depends on the context of the bet. For instance, to say "there will be an iPhone" by March 2007 would mean James wins the bet, but if "will be out" was meant in the context that he could actually purchase one, then of course James' brother wins the bet.
Sqube @ Jan 10th 2007 11:09AM
If the phone isn't out by 11:59 PM on February 28th, you lose. It's that simple.
You can try to welsh, or you can try to play with words to try to twist things around until it seems like you didn't lose... but you lost.
Suck it up, be a man about it, and give your brother his $150.
L0s @ Jan 10th 2007 11:15AM
Maybe if they were taking preorders would he have an argument for collecting on that bet but since they aren't, he's gotta pony up.
Jim Murphy @ Jan 10th 2007 11:16AM
Happens all the time in the "real world" of gambling...you gotta pay attention to how those proposition bets are worded! He's got until 3/07 to sweat it out but unless he can go down to Cingular and get a phone by then he owes his brother $150. And next time he places a bet like this--on the iCar maybe?--he'll bet that the iCar will be *announced* by 3/10 or whenever...
key @ Jan 10th 2007 11:17AM
Problem with this poll is that Jobs is known for over estimating the time for release. What if the FCC gives approval by end of February? They might put it out before June. I'd wait to pay until April 1st. Then he can tell brother April Fools....
Alcaron @ Jan 10th 2007 11:26AM
Needs a "why is engadget such an apple whore and why is this a post" voting option.
Seriously, apple stuff is one of the only non tradeshow and non sponsored (or is it?) things I've ever seen get a special sticky banner for it.
Something to keep in mind the next time you chip in your thoughts about the zune.
Mario Mejia @ Jan 10th 2007 11:28AM
The phone IS "out"
It was a complete mystery before yesterday and now it is not. The world now dream of the phone in their sleep, etc etc.
Pandora's box has been opened and all other phone companies will tremble for the next few months ass their sales begin to lag in anticipation.
Its effects are already being felt, it is out. Maybe not available (kind of like the Wii) but it is out, suckas.
And btw, I am NO Apple fan, I own a Sansa, steered clear of Apple. I am just realistic.
Josh @ Jan 10th 2007 11:31AM
"would come out"
Herein lies the linguistic difficulty. It's certainly come out as in been made public - the same term has been used for people 'coming out' as homosexuals, at least in the UK - but hasn't come out in the shops. Since shops weren't specifically mentioned, I go with the former. It's come out but isn't for sale just yet.
John @ Jan 10th 2007 11:34AM
It seems the following type of statement is pretty common:
"Volkswagen is coming out with a new Jetta. It will be on showroom floors in June"
Similar to "Apple is coming out with the iPhone. It will be on store shelves in June"
Brother owes James, No?
Ryan Waddell @ Jan 10th 2007 11:35AM
I voted that his brother should pay up, but it's really a matter of semantics. When I say "come out" I mean that the product exists. I don't mean "This is the day it's for sale". But if those details weren't confirmed at the time the bet was made, it's a wash, really.
poolboy @ Jan 10th 2007 11:40AM
I'm going to have to say the bet is off with no clear winner. If Cingular plays things like they do every other new phone launch, if Apple says it's available in June 2007, Cingular will finally get it to market sometime by Spring 2008.
Please refer to Sony Ericsson s710a, and...and...well, just about all Sony Ericsson phones.
For this reason I say the bet should be off with no winner.
paul @ Jan 10th 2007 11:43AM
"This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained."
....
Thus, No :D
Terrence Meekins @ Jan 10th 2007 11:57AM
I guess you would have to apply it to another medium and see how it back traces. Is Windows Vista out?
crackpipe @ Jan 10th 2007 12:02PM
whoa is thy semantics. clarification should have been made when the bet was placed. since it wasn't I think both parties should pay me for pointing this "out"
Shelterpaw @ Jan 10th 2007 12:04PM
He made the wrong bet. He should have bet that it will be announced. If it's available for purchase before the end of March and wont ship until June, as in pre orders, then he should win. Otherwise he should pay up.
Spartacus @ Jan 10th 2007 12:26PM
Between brothers or friends any bet which can be argued and requires a poll to be decided is a push.
I had a bet with a friend about how the Packers would finish this year. He said losing season, I said winning season, they went 8-8. PUSH.
The iPhone is outted, and in Apple terms this should count. It'd be one thing if it's a bet on when the Optimus will come out, but Apple isn't a vaporware company.
I'm with both of them giving Jobs $150. Both should go out and buy a 2GB nano. Everytime they listen to it they'll be reminded not to make foolish bets with family.
Ronin @ Jan 10th 2007 12:36PM
At this point, it's not out. It still may not come out, because the FCC has to approve it. As slim a chance as that is, it's the facts. However, there's still 2 months. Maybe the FCC speeds it, maybe Apple speeds manufacturing, but the chances on that are slimmer than the FCC killing it.
Pay up. A product announcement doesn't mean it's on shelves.
Jean-Michel Decombe @ Jan 10th 2007 12:37PM
I was just on the phone with Judge Judy and this is what she had to say... The phone has come out of the closet but it has not come out of the factory, and it has yet to be authorized by the FCC so there is technically no guarantee that it will ever be available. However, the betting proposition was poorly worded and James' brother needs a good lesson (as well as a good spanking). James owes his brother $75.
Tik @ Jan 10th 2007 12:48PM
This situation is exactly why bets (and contracts, for that matter) should be worded as specifically as possible, taking into account any misunderstandings that could arise from differences in interpretation.
Since this is a friendly wager between brothers (I hope), if the brother who suggested that the Apple phone would "come out" before March intended it to mean "announced," as opposed to "in stores" then I think he should win. If they can come to an honest agreement of the statement's intent, then they should by all means do so, but if no agreement can be reached, I'd say it's a wash. They should phrase bets more precisely next time (I'm sure they will).
TVGenius @ Jan 10th 2007 12:56PM
I find it interesting that for as much of a stink as was raised over the ROKR not allowing you to download from iTunes over the air, this doesn't do it either. I find it surprising that for all they did include, they didn't bother with that (or maybe Cingular didn't want them constantly pushing 50MB+ albums over the data network.
Spartacus @ Jan 10th 2007 1:13PM
You better believe cingular is in favor of 50 MB downloads. They are NOT in favor of their brand spanking new Cingular Music store being dead weeks after launch because of a phone that isn't even available. iTunes tracks may well be available OTA at some point, it's just that it won't be until AT&T gives up on their own craptacular music store.
Deadturtle @ Jan 10th 2007 12:58PM
Both of these brothers should know that Apple is the biggest rumor monger in the 'verse. I figured neither wins since the phone is now a known entity, but it is also not yet for sale... and since they were both kinda right and kinda wrong they should each give me $150 dollars.
Alex Jones @ Jan 10th 2007 1:34PM
i dont think the bet is over! Its completely possible that that iPhone could come out before march, although unlikely. additionally i think since steve jobs was playing with one onestage live, it counts as being "out" or in production.
Does the cisco phone count as the iPhone? Im just trying to help the guy out of the bet...
Gary Combs @ Jan 10th 2007 1:41PM
Meh, I say its a draw. The phone has been made, and i'm sure more will be produced by the end of February. Consider that its taking a poll to decide this, that should help show its a draw.
Eric Glassman @ Jan 10th 2007 2:03PM
No, the announcement doesn't count. Never has Steve Jobs had such a poor year of productivity, and he spoke about it with a cocaine-like euphoria. Yesterday he called a NON-BROADBAND smartphone, and a 300 dollar wireless-TV-monitor connection as both "revolutionary."
He should have not had a keynote, or said "it's been a sad, slow rough year, and for the first time we are playing catch up with Bill Gates, and all the great Windows hardware out there. I'm embarrased, demoralized, and sorry. I am both B.S.'ing, and euphorically out of touch with the realities of 2007 consumers."
So, A. The Phone is not out, B. An announcement is nothing, C. Jobs is speaking insanity now, he may have meant June 2050, and D. don't be cheap, and dishonest, it doesn't become you.
Sam @ Jan 10th 2007 2:50PM
He wins the bet because people will have these phones in their hands to review (and possibly give to others) before March.
mike @ Jan 10th 2007 2:52PM
the bet is off... they didn't agree on what 'out' meant.
The iPhone will take a few months to go through FCC testing, or whatever... Steve's using his, does that count as out?
Sean @ Jan 10th 2007 3:12PM
Stevie J was talking on his iPhone yesterday. Steve has one so it is out. The brother owes. It is not James fault that no one can buy it. Apple has to have made a few dozen for the FCC and Apple/Cingular Execs.
Grimm @ Jan 10th 2007 3:20PM
If we use James' interpretation of "out" as being the same as "announced" then we would also have to agree that Duke Nukem Forever has been "out" since 1997. Sorry James but if you tell someone that something will be "out" by a certain date you are implying that it is something that they can have in their hand by then. If you meant "announced" (and I don't think you did) then you should have said it.
Michael @ Jan 10th 2007 3:39PM
O.k. here is my logic. . . James will owe brother if said phone is not for sale by March 1. Reason being, the inherent assumptions of semantics in the bet. We all knew if announcement came, it would be done yesterday, not in march, therefore since the bet was made for march 1, not a time when apple makes such announcements for product releases, the assumed bet was really for out at stores for purchase. . .brother wins. . . the tech world has announcements of products all of the time, announcements are vapor until the product is in the consumers hands. . .think ps3. . . was it out in 2005, when it was showcased at CES; no it was vapor, until this past january. . .
Gary Combs @ Jan 10th 2007 4:00PM
Still, there is a big difference between a non functional PS3 and a fully functional Iphone. I just say, call the bet off.
E @ Jan 10th 2007 4:54PM
Gimme a break. The phone is out? Where? Where can I buy it?
Out is pretty specific. An announcement is just that, words.
Are you "out" if you announce you are out? If you're girl calls and asks what you're doing, and you say you're out, but in reality, you're still sitting on the couch, but you plan to go out next Tuesday... What do YOU think she's gonna say about that bit of logic?
It's all pretty simple, take any situation like that and try to use the logic and spin on your girlfriend, then you'll see just how full of shiat it is by how pissed she get's at you!
some person @ Jan 10th 2007 5:05PM
well it was announced, that should count, because the iPhone was just a rumor at first, but now it's announced, thus, the rumor is true, and therefore, his brother should pay up
Howard Cronin @ Jan 10th 2007 6:17PM
A little deduction should clear this up -- "before March of 2007" precisely means ANYTIME prior to 12:00am of March 1st, 2007. So, there are 49 more days until the bet has officially concluded.
The sticking-point, however, is "come out". There seems to be two differing connotations. First, that of pure, real-world existence. The product is operable, demonstrable, and has been offically announced by the manufacturer... as is the iPhone. Second, is market availability. The product is mass produced and the consumer can purchase and use the product at will... which the iPhone is not.
If we look at common parlance, if I were to say, "The PS3 is coming out in December", you would take that to mean, "the PS3 will be available to purchase". Yes, you've been aware of its existence... and may have even seen the product being reviewed... but if someone were to ask, "is the PS3 out?" (prior to December), your answer would most assuredly be "No." The same logic could be applied to DVDs or games or CDs or movies. If I were to ask, "When is Epic Movie coming out", you would respond, "January 26th".... its release date. Though, I'm sure the movie is completed, it's been announced, and has even been reviewed... it's not considered "out".
Conclusion - On March 1st, 2007, if the iPhone is not available to be purchased and operated, James will have lost the bet.
J @ Jan 10th 2007 6:33PM
the fact that it was stated "would come out" to me is way too generic for a product. and since $150 is on the line, i'd say it's a push. it's not spelled out, no winners, no losers. especially when dealing with apple, they always ANNOUNCE things before they can be purchased. i've said "apple's come out with an iphone." that doesn't mean it's for sale yet, just announced and such. i vote push.
Darren @ Jan 10th 2007 6:41PM
James and his brother should each pay $75 to the charity of their choice. Then it'll be settled and there will be no hard feelings and they'll both be left with a warm glow inside.
Josh @ Jan 11th 2007 2:36PM
announced != out.
pay up james.