Screw the
limited edition signed collector's Vista plate set with matching flatware and signed Bill Gates lithograph, China's already rocking it black market style with
Vista knocks on the shelves in two CD sets. The software, which is already purchasable for the low, low price of about $2.50, is thought to be the Frankenbuild version or some other hack of beta code to get around the activation process. Either way, it's unlikely to be going anywhere but home with Chinese consumers. Which kind of begs the question: even though
dumping is generally frowned upon, at what point will Microsoft cut its losses and just sell the software for less cash in markets where the median income is proportionately grossly less than that that of its country of origin?
P.S. -Props to the box designer that left the trademark symbols next to Microsoft and Vista; we tip our hats to your sense of irony.
posted Jan 21st 2007 6:48PM
i'd say you dont know anything about usenet... or even bit torrent..
Dugg!
http://digg.com/software/Chinese_Black_Market_Copies_of_Vista_on_Sale
Unless M$ is ready and willing to sell their junk for $2.50 there's just no point to them 'dumping'. I have a feeling they'd rather spend a ton of money trying to make their copy protection better, then to re-price and give in to the pirates.
"dumping" american goods just doesn't happen. There's lots of reasons, but everywhere outside of america pays a premium, especially for technology.
I'm saying its a haxo3rd copy of xp with a vista skin written over the setup files. on a burned CD/DVD. with a fake bill gates signature
Sniff.. Sniff... Poor Micro$lopped. Guess they will have to include free tickets to a dinner party with Bill Gates in the next version as a better incentive than a faked signature, huh?
man this is so funny, im not ashamed to say i have vista final installed and cracked, fuck you MS. Until they change there ridiculous prices, im not buying anything from them anytime soon.
id buy it
"at what point will Microsoft cut its losses and just sell the software for less cash"
Are you forreal? China's the fastest growing economy on earth. You think Microsoft will just cut its losses because they supposedly cant afford it and will steal it anyways?
Man I hope Ferrari and Lamborghini do the same thing around here. If they dont drop their prices to $25,000 I will just steal their cars. So they might aswell just drop the price if they know whats good for them.
As usual, people relating IP to physical property. The costs associated with a Lambo are fixed: parts and labor for assembly. However, once the investment has been made in R&D and dev on a piece of software, your costs of manufacture are minimal (which is why Microsoft, a software company, is among the richest in the world). Just because China is growing doesn't mean people can afford this software, which is why I brought up median income. It's not as black and white as you apparently see it, but software businesses can actually scale their prices as growing economies grow.
Poor old China then, having to use the over anticipated, over hyped and sadly, soon to be over here software! ;-)
Still at least if China is using Vista you can expect it to miss any sattelites it aims at in future, so it ain't all bad!
huh
Probably "Frankenbuild"...akin to putting Chinese brake rotors on a BMW. What`s really scary is the Chinese are going to try and sell their fold-up-like-a-beer-can cars here.
Zuned!
i always use bit torrent! and i dont think it could be vista if it is on 2 cds. so could be the xp shit
These sorts of things have been available ever since the RTM was leaked onto the net. My friend got a copy of it, looks like the box, from thailand.
this reminds me of when i was growing up in a third-world country. i was always into 3d/animation/modeling and all that, but at the time software ran from (back in the day) around 3k for 3ds all the way to 17,000usd for lumena.
guys, when you want to learn something that you know is going to be useful for your future, but in order to be legit you need to shell out the equivalent of 10 years' salary (that's not a typo) just for the privelege of using licensed software, well, i think the importance of being legit goes to hell.
can't blame the chinese, or indonesian, or whatever south american country whose per capita income hovers around an average 1st-world teenager's weekly allowance. they weren't willing to stay hopelessly behind in the technology race, so they resort to pirating; otherwise, these countries would be even more technologically handicapped.
until software manufacturers start realising that citizens of poor countries simply cannot pay xxxx dollars per license just to be legit, and start charging reasonably for software that can be recouped via legitimate business for that market (it's not like, say, a Sri Lankan animation studio can charge in their domestic market 1,200usd per second of animation - who can afford it?) i don't ever see the spectre of piracy vanishing.
well, i live in a third world country, i.e: the United Arab Emirates, now we can afford lots cuz we aren't poor at all, but, i use a fake version of XP and let me tell ya, its torture buddy, its a hell of a lot of torture, you can update anything, then they find out and your screwed, dealing with constant messages to upgrade to original, so don't think its all good to go around buying fake software becuz its cheap, buy it becuz you can use FULL features with originals, so if it breaks down within warranty you get it back for FREE, so if you have difficulties you can ask for genuine professional help, so please men, don't be like many people i know here who buy fakes cuz they look at it the wrong way, buy it becuz of the things that are important, not just the name, like many think, theres a world of difference!
Wondering if there'll be crippled PCs in China anytime soon ... you know, it might actually be worth it for Microsoft to create a version of Windows specifically designed to be pirated. The catch would be once it's detected by Genuine Advantage or whatever the hell it is, instead of crippling the system, you'd get a message offering a bounty of 100 USD for information leading to the arrest of the guy who sold you the pirated version of Windows.
It's a little evil, but it's Microsoft. And it's China. So I'm sure they could handle the heat.
They did that in Manila. Microsoft exchanged free copies of XP for a pirated CD of XP and information on where the person bought the pirated copy.
comment above at you ^
comment above at you ^
This sort of crap is like what goes on with Gun Laws. The Government passes copyright laws and Microsoft and others create all kinds of DRM software in order to protect their business investment. Nothing wrong with that except that in reality they just make it more expensive for tax paying, law abiding citizens to get their software of choice. Meanwhile, business' weak attempt at protecing their investment with these stupid and useless DRM are no match to the black market out there. Perfect example is this article where black market sell illegal copies of Vista for $2.50.
The same thing happens with guns. Thousands of gun laws out there meant to protect and keep guns from the streets only make it harder for tax paying, law abiding citizens from getting their own. Meanwhile, these new laws don't affect a criminals ability to obtain firearms. Make sense?
The same thing could be said about pot but let me not go there...The more laws a society has, the more criminals it creates and the harder it makes it for law abiding citizens to afford anything or live a criminal free life.
I wonder how hard it is for China's leaders to stay communist...
Considering it seems as though they have no control over what their people do.
"so your condoning stealing copies because these poor people in third world countries can't afford it? Why are these people entitled to Vista? there not! let them use windows 95 if thats all they can afford. Wait? If they are so poor, what are they doing with computers in the first place? Think about it"
i'm not condoning software piracy. i'm merely stating what happens in such markets.
you obviously don't see much farther than your nose. if you did, you'd understand why there are such efforts as the OLPC initiative from John Negroponte of MIT, and why so many companies are jumping on that bandwagon.
people from poor countries are not entitled to Vista, but neither are rich countries. it's a product that is sold. you are entitled to the software once you pay for it. again, what i am stating is simply that people will find ways to get the software that they need regardless of socioeconomic indicators. this is exactly why countries such as china and india are kicking the gool ol' us of a's ass left, right and center in IT. And while we're at it, if it weren't for india's pirating of software so they could be up-to-date and relevant, what would happen to outsourced call centers? such menial jobs would have to be *gasp* taken by american citizens! goodness gracious, we can't allow that to happen, can we?
windows 95 is unofficially supported or even sold anymore, fyi.
btw, the single country in the world that engages, per capita, in intellectual property software piracy is the united states of america. first world country, can afford the software, but pirate more than any other country in the world. if they can afford it, what are they doing pirating in the first place? think about it.
and learn some proper grammar ("there not")! it's only what, your first language?
"so your condoning stealing copies because these poor people in third world countries can't afford it? Why are these people entitled to Vista? there not! let them use windows 95 if thats all they can afford. Wait? If they are so poor, what are they doing with computers in the first place? Think about it"
This sounds like a troll, but I'll bite anyway.
I don't think they're too concerned with some random Engadget poster's morality.
If I was living in a 3rd world country where I was trying to pull myself out of economic hardship, while the software writers were all driving BMWs, well then MS be damned.
Your morality and indignation don't mean sh*t, and frankly, why should they? Nobody over there has any vested interest in your well being, so why not pirate? If you aren't flying humanitarian aid to Darfur or otherwise taking an interest in the well-being of some other 3rd world country, you'd be hard-pressed to convince any intelligent person they should take an interest in your well being, no?
Get off your high-horse. The smart choice for them is to pirate, and your sense of morality has nothing to do with it.
Amen, anonymous coward!
I live in Shanghai. You wouldn't believe what is available for sale here. I guess I'll have to go down and pick up a copy to see what's inside. I'm a mac guy, so I don't really need it, but now I'm interested!
The attitude toward software here is "it's all free". It doesn't even OCCUR to most folks that you have to pay for software. It's assumed that once you buy the hardware, you can get any software you want for free, or a very nominal fee if you want to actually go to a store and buy a cd/dvd (instead of DL from the web). In-fact, because of this it's actually VERY DIFFICULT (or at least very inconvenient) to find legitimate software for purchase. It's true for everything - the concept of paying for media/services/software/etc is just not understood here. Video game consoles (I have an xbox360) - hacked, 10RMB / game. Satellite - buy the hacked box, 1500RMB setup, no monthly charge. Software - 5-20RMB / disc. DVDs - 5RMB per DVD (all of the Oscar contenders just arrived as perfect copies of the preview DVDs, by the way).
When I go to my favorite electronics mall (太平洋数码广场 in 铺西 or 铺东) there are hundreds of places to buy every kind of hardware you'd ever want (from top brands to DIY parts), but basically (nearly) zero places to buy legitimate SW.
If you can read Chinese, there are hundreds of sites to download pretty much any software for free. No bittorrent needed, just navigate, click, and boom you're done. It's all very surreal.
EE
It's not right legally or possibly morally, but it is an economic reality. The price of a legit copy is too expensive to be worth it, and the costs of piracy are low. If pricing it lower decreased piracy and sold more legit copies, then Microsoft might actually make more, depending on how the actual numbers play out.
What Microsoft should do is find out how to use the large numbers of people using Windows in other money-making ideas. Piracy is a pain for the lawyers, but it makes the marketing people happy. Microsoft could stand to make a large profit by finding other ways to translate their market share with Windows (whether obtained through piracy or cheap versions of Windows) into more people using Live search, Messenger, Live/Hotmail, Zunes, Xboxes, Pocket PCs, etc. They're already doing that of course, but the more they leverage that, the less costly piracy is for Microsoft.
why has nobody mentioned linux yet? if microsoft is soo expensive, then why not use a cheaper (ie, FREE) alternative... legally?? why pirate something when you have choices?? thats why linux is the os of the future.. soon all smart technologists from poorer countries will know whats available to them, and windows will be like DOS, people remember when they used to use it.. but, its no longer the best choice anymore..
That's gotta be WinXP with skins. There's no way Ultimate can go on 2 CD's. Ah those crazy Chineese.
And people wonder why we pay so much for this software.... damn bootleggers
Yea it would be nice if they made the stuff a little cheaper i mean by no means do i make a little amount of money its the fact i dont want to shell out that much cash for an OS. Kinda sucks.
-Matt
http://www.traditiona.com
Let's be real MS doesn't really care when home users and small businesses use pirated MS software. This actually keeps help MS to keep the use of Linux and open source software down. Also allows the education of new users to MS software.
Revenue comes from those who can afford to pay i.e. the big corporations and public sector in China. You can bet that MS China is tough on collecting the money from the big boys.
laputaquelepari is very right about the black markets thing. People here in Peru (at least) find it much easier to go to the closest market and buy the piece of software that they want or need then going and looking for it in a store. In reality here people just don´t care if its legit or not. Its the same case with CDs and DVDs. The only place that I´ve heard of selling real CDs or DVDs are places in Lima which is about 12 hours in a bus from the second largest city.(Arequipa) It really just doesnt pay for people here to buy real software.
even its for free, i wont install the eeeeeeeiiiveeel os on my macbook. EVARRR!
OSX FTW!
You honestly expect people in China to use linux? With such a steep learning curve theres no way that thats going to be the OS of choice for them. They are all looking for the best product the same way we are. I personally use linux, but i dont see any reason why someone in China would go out and get a legal copy of linux when, as far as they're concerned, windows is free too. In China they are simply doing what they must to get by with little concern whether or not Microsoft fails to make a few more billion. And don't even get me started on people using OSX in the US, let alone a third world country.
This is hilarious.
I thought linux was way more popular in China anyway?
Perhaps you might want to refrain from using "begs the question" incorrectly. What you mean to write is "raises the question".
To wit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
Love you guys!
"why has nobody mentioned linux yet? if microsoft is soo expensive, then why not use a cheaper (ie, FREE) alternative... legally?? why pirate something when you have choices?? thats why linux is the os of the future.. soon all smart technologists from poorer countries will know whats available to them, and windows will be like DOS, people remember when they used to use it.. but, its no longer the best choice anymore.."
this is not entirely true. there are a load of software that are designed for some flavor of windows or another, so you don't always have a choice (loads of professional/industry-standard software come to mind, especially in the 3d and video post-production areas). however, i understand your point about linux and freebie software - i use these whenever i can. (portableapps.com, anyone?)
hey squat! i was right up next to you, in ecuador, so i completely understand what you are saying!
btw, most of the pirated software you can buy there are controlled by the russian mafia. that, and mp3s, dvds are all controlled by citizens of the ex-USSR. go figure.
The ink for that box costs more than $2.50.
John
http://www.monomachines.com
"The ink for that box costs more than $2.50."
not in china, it doesn't! :)
i live practically next door to china, and i can pick up, legit, the latest hollywood blockbuster on dvd, with packaging and all, for 3usd. this is for something completely legitimate, mind you (kicks ass to cross the border to china, spend 150usd and return with around 100 dvds (they will heavily discount legitimate dvds provided you buy enough in one go).
can't beat that, if you ask me - legitimate IP for the price of counterfeit!!!
The chinese are justing circumventing growth barriers. The fundamental dynamic of all living organisms. Once a barrier to growth is encountered the organism just evolves a way around it. That's why the Corporations that would ideally absolutely control the humand organism will always fail. They're fighting probrably the most fundamental law of nature. They're just too dumb and arrogant to realise that !
i think we chinese hav our own activation server and the world's pirate are counting on it...
Still overpriced.
YOu know, pir8ng an operating system is not bad at all. In fact, how do you think MS is where it is today if not for bootlegg'd copies of their operating system?
The more vista's they get installed on computers, the more dominance they have period. There are 100,000+ developers who make apps for windows. This is why windows is good - because of all the software that can be run on it.
I laugh at that comment regarding linux - please, I wouldn't even want to use it and it's FREE. I don't see tons of people switching over - the reality is that it's not what windows is - which is fab for all users.
I'm sure windows is not the only source of income for MS - even though it is what MS was born to do - it's all about software and being able to create MS apps that run on MS o/s is key.
LOL when I think about PS2 vs. Xbox. The only reason PS2 was still alive and kicking was the software. But if you look at the reason why it's still kickin, it's all because of mod chips and bootleg software. This is a reverse scenario - they sell more hardware than software. In MS' case, they get to keep their desktop dominance with the aid of pir8s.
Hopefully we open source programmers can take care of the problem within the next few years. Treating data as property. People call it a right, but that's kind of a load of crap. If you can't make art for the right reasons, go away. We'll do it.
Until then, I'd rather have a subscription to all data that exists, as a member of the human race. Add it to my taxes or something- I sure as heck am not going to pay for every little thing; unlike most, however, I prefer to use GNU software instead of pirating other stuff- it's better quality, in my opinion. In the mean time, someone should distribute Linux w/ KDE 4 in China. Would that make M$ happy? Less piracy, right? Worth a shot.
Hey Eric, China's the shit :) Damn! I want to move there now.
hello? vista's long been out on MSDN so it's definitely one of those builds. it's also easy to find on the usual BT sites.
as for activation, I happen to know that there's currently a trick around, just use beta activation files/keys. however, this trick doesnt work anymore. which certainly doesn't stop chinese dealers from selling it...
Will there be an english language version?
Things are getting better in China. The sales of this will be in subway stalls, mostly, and not at the bigger retail shops. Believe it or not, this is a step up!
www.chinalawblog.com
I totally agree that if it wasn't for pirated Windows, MS wouldn't have the dominance it has today.
Having Windows on every computer is what made every devs to license technology from MS, and impulsed the standard in computing. The main problem is that the current price for Vista is so huge that doesn't worth it. And don't come sayin' that you can always change your PC and have it installed, cause no one is offering Ultimate bundled. Also I like to open the guts of my PCs and change HDD's, videocards, etc. all around and NEVER buy a brandname PC.
Will this version update my bootleg XP?
this is what Microsoft gets for turning a blind eye to the atrocities being committed in china, then taking part by using them for cheap labor and "tech support, like india. google and yahoo are next I'm sure.
Just thought I would add that its actually selling for $1.20, many people have been installing it, I have been in an internet cafe that is already using it.
Thus we have Linux. Hopefully Linux will catch on in the rest of the world and keep Vista to the US only.
i think lets not forget all we use in the modern world in daily life is made in china , so i'am not surprised by vista actually being cracked maybe microsoft themselves launched the bugged software to be cracked and hanged in few months so that everyonewill buy it, more over in time chinese can be our only source of affordable software i would not be surprised if in future it is called microsoft cn .