Apple TV -- now due mid-March
By Ryan Block 
posted Feb 26th 2007 4:57PM
posted Feb 26th 2007 4:57PM
Looks like the Apple TV took a little longer to put the spit and polish on than Apple initially thought. According to Apple PR Director of Mac products Lynn Fox, "Wrapping up Apple TV is taking a few weeks longer than we projected, and we now expect to begin shipments mid-March." Odd, being that Apple first showed this thing off last Fall -- and bummer for everybody waiting for their product. But you'd rather have it right than have it all crappy-wrong-first-gen, no? That was the silver lining for Vista's delayed launch, anyway.P.S. -For those who just got a pang of sadness on what you're missing out on, maybe these pics of the Apple TV we took at Macworld 2007 will cheer you up.
Not surprised with people's ship dates slipping. Bummer though :-(
Great now do you think they can make an Itunes that works with Vista so I can sync my Ipod for the first time since January.
Well you didn't need Vista. WE need our iPod's. Priorities.
Now that is just absurd. It isn't like release candidates for Vista have been available for them to work on since this time last year, or an official release of the OS to businesses last November. How can you expect Apple to get something working in such little time.
I have been running Vista since early November... I have been able to sync my ipod on a weekly basis with no problems. I think your problem is somewhere between your keyboard and your chair.
I've got exactly the same problem. In addition I have an Audible subscription - so I'm paying for 2 books every month, which I can't actually get onto my iPod until Apple pulls their finger out clicky.
I'm running Vista64, I think the problems are less severe if you're Vista32
I'm pretty sure that apple came out with a patch for that. They also are supposed to be coming out w/ a new version of i tunes soon.
Not really an announcement per se.. many were told right on the Apple website that their order would be shipping Mar 12/13... so...yeah...
The idea that Apple is actually tweaking the product as Engadget implies: ludicrous of course.
Yeah, but Windows Media Center is still way better than Apple TV. Sure it doesn't come as an official extender, but at least the software is way better, plus it's original.
How do you know?
Just like I am unable to pass judgement on Vista or Windows Media Center (what with the whole "not having Vista or WMC on a machine I have access to" thing) I'd like to under stand how it is that you are able to.
It's just a rumor -- started about 2 weeks ago.
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2174702/apple-brushes-tv-delay-rumors
It's on their website. Ships: Mid March
Noooooooooooooooooo! I need this because I want it.
n00b question: Is "Apple TV" their version of TiVo? Or is it like Sling? Or both?
Confused.
"n00b question: Is "Apple TV" their version of TiVo? Or is it like Sling? Or both?"
It is basically a Windows Media Extender. All it does is stream music from your computer but has no recording capability or means to gain content as a standalone unit. That is why many consider the Xbox 360 for $100 more to be a better purchase, however if you want to stream media from a Mac the xbox will leave you SOL.
@ Todd
Think of it like Windows Media Center, Apple edition.
I've been enjoying my Xbox's new ability to stream HD footage from any vista system in the house... was I the only one that went to MacWorld and asked "ok, this looks like crap on these HD screens... what HD footage can I watch on here?" Everyone's answer was "gee i don't think there is any... maybe if you download a HD trailer..." Thats it?? HD Trailers?
You can watch 720p @ 30fps via AppleTV. The iTunes Store currently doesn't sell such content, but any such content in your iTunes library will stream to your AppleTV.
Not having an AppleTV yet, I obviously can't confirm this, but you will likely be able to play anything that Quicktime can play, which for me is ANY AVI as I have the correct codecs installed. To do this, you need to create a Referencd Movie via QT of your AVIs and then import that Referenced Movie into iTunes.
Think of it like Windows Media Center, Apple edition.
--
Except that's already in OS X. It's called Front Row (minus Tivo stuff).. This is a way to put content on your TV for time shifting, without connecting it to your computer, etc
Rick - I agree completely. I hacked my Xbox years ago to watch PC movies on my TV. Granted I've since unhacked it and now use an iMac, but this "technology" is nothing new. The iTV, Apple TV, whatever its called, holds the promise of integrating better into your home theater (hopefully), but you're giving up an awful lot beyond the mere $300 to get it. Still, when you get beyond the 25-26 age threshold, you don't want to be using an Xbox controller to fast forward anymore.
By the way, many people have failed to point out that Apple has overlooked DVD features such as closed captioning, subtitles, and spoken languages. Add all of these to a model that provides no substantial value over standard definition, and you've got a product as irrelevant as the iPod Hi-Fi.
These are the things that make me think Apple TV should haveve been delayed for more that a two weeks.
The rampant Apple Fanboi-ism gets a little old after, I don't know when did OS X come out?
The debate between MS and Apple hasn't really ever changed. It doesn't even matter what your reason is. Use them both for all I care, I do.
Why people needlessly need to bring in Vista to an unrelated Mac thread Engadget did (or does) is beyond me. The delay of Vista does not affect, or had no affect on AppleTv.
99% of the Mac users who would have or will buy AppleTV don't care if WMCE does the same thing better, why? Cause it's a MS thing... that's scary.
How can you call yourself tech people if you can't work with the most abundant piece of software out there? I don't understand why everyone must have phobias about a certain OS, but put in on their resume that they work with it. It's silly.
Here is a suggestion to any fanboy, MS or Apple, use both. All the time. I guarentee if your open minded that you will learn that there is no one true OS. That's not to say that one is more stable, or more secure, or more anything than the other. That's to say that they are all compliments to each other.
Everyday i switch back and forth. After four years of working with them both, I don't want to give up either. I can deal with out OS X for the most part, but I would rather not.
One of these days I will add a linux distro to that list. But good gosh, computer "racism" is ridiculous, and it just shows that your incapable of adapting.
(Real Racism is obviously a million fold more serious than computer racism, just so I make that clear)
I call myself a tech person because I use Linux.
No, this isn't like Windows Media Center. This is more like sling, but instead of streaming over the internet to portable devices, its streaming content on your itunes to your HDTV. It's all about encouraging people to buy itunes content... until this device, it was about playing it on your ipod. This lets you play it on your tv.
Hm, that sounded less clear than I intended.
Right now today, I buy itunes videos and have to watch it on my computer, or video ipod. That's it.
This device lets me watch these videos on my TV instead.
Apple TV seems like a very limited device and it doesn't even have the most needed feature in the living room...a video recorder. There is no personal video recorder! You'll have to buy all your tv shows and films at a lower video quality (which sucks even worse). Their "new" interface even looks like the old windows media center software.
@ Buck Jones III,
You aren't required to purchase your content from the iTunes Store. AppleTV will all compatible video and audio on your Windows or OS X based computers regardless of the original source.
At $300, do you really expect it to have a TV Tuner? How many shows could you hold in it's 40GB HDD? Do you know what kind of processing power is required to capture video, or compress to H.264? THe AppleTV is more like an iPod than a full-fledged computer.
Unlike MS' expensive computers designed to be to compete with your current entertainment system's DVR, DVD player, CD Player, et cetera, the AppleTV is merely a simple way to extend the range of your computer's media to your living room. That is why such devices (Apple's isn't the only one) are called MEDIA EXTENDERS.
Some you simply don't understand. Microsoft is not Apple. Apple is not Microsoft. They have completely different views on product functionality and capability.
Here is article that will settle all the whining about why Apple TV doesn't offer the same capabilities as Micrsoft Windows Media Center PC or extender.
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/841EDBB5-1245-42AD-A733-B9B29957347B.html
So its essentially a $300 wireless bridge for a video connection? It doesn't even have a hard drive. Overprice much apple?
Oy! It's got a 40Gb hard drive, and some kind of Intel processor in it, as well as an nVidia 7300 Go (I think?) and some RAM... Watch the keynote before you make judgements, buddy. =)
It's just a tiny computer.
@ pyro,
I see you finally noticed the Tech Specs about what the AppleTV contains. Those have there since about an hour after Jobs finished explained the AppleTV at MacWorld 2007.
If you are looking for other Media Extenders to compare the AppleTV to, try the D-Link DSm-520 MediaLounge. It doesn't contain any HDD, but it does, undoubtedly, offer more codec support.
Up until the AppleTV was announced, the DSM-520 was retailing at $240, and that was without any sort of any internal HDD storage or 802.11n. Unfortunatly, the reviews of its performance has been less than stellar.
So, as you can see, it's not overpriced for a Media Extender.
well it does have a hard drive, you can thank apple's poorly designed website for not mentioning that anywhere on the main page for it. It's still a ripoff
I ordered an Apple TV from the Apple store the day that they went on sale. The shipping date was changed today from February 28 to March 20.
http://heringermr.blogspot.com/2007/02/apple-tv-now-due-march-20.html
pyro -
I'm probably going to start a flame war, but you are an idiot. In January when it was officially introduced as the "Apple TV", Jobs stated it had a 40GB hard drive and the freakin Tech Specs on Apple's website HAS ALWAYS said so.
For the record, I ordered an Apple TV device. It fits my needs exactly. And I'm displeased it had slipped back to March 20th. But it is not the end of the world.
Here is reality. Apple could own the living room by simply putting recording features into a minimac/apple tv type of device. Unfortunately for most of us, they aren't likely to do this because that would take business away from their Itunes store. See, they would rather have you buy the Office from iTunes than let you record it. I don't know a single person that buys tv shows from iTunes so I am not really sure what they are giving up with this strategy. Most people love Apple and an Apple tivo device would sell millions. They should make people pay $13 bucks a month like Tivo and they would own the living room. They won't do this, but that won't stop many mac-addicts from buying a gimped device that pales in comparison to what it could be.
@ Brian,
1) TiVo is far from successful. They lost $50M on 2006. 2007 is proving to be worse with the poor sales of the Series3. I'm guessing they are bought out sometime in the 3rd quarter.
2) At $300 there is no way to have a DVR. A DVR requires a powerful processor, a good deal of RAM, and large amounts of storage. Things that modern desktop computers have plenty of, so Apple wants you to use your computer for that. The Series3 retails for $800 and sells at a loss in order to make a profit in the subscription. Apple has always made their profti from the hardware, with software and content not adding much to their income. Imagine what a non-subsidized DVR from Apple with the Series3 specs would run?
3) If you have a Mac, you can do what I did, I added a DVR from Elgato. The price of the DVR + AppleTV is much cheaper than buying a dedicated DVR appliance. And I get a lot more options when it comes to compression and codecs. (PCs have similar options, as it's cheaper tan buying a dedicated Windows Media Center.
Bingo. And for me, it supports Windows and OS X machines without requiring me to manage my files in folders. Rip, drop into iTunes.
As for TV shows, compared to my digital cable plan, I can actually save a good 300$/year by simply buying shows a la carte from iTunes, and using OTA for HD content that I don't already have on disc.
Hell, breaking free of the cable cartel (until the Apple IPTV cartel forms) is enough for me.
"Unlike MS' expensive computers". LOL. This definitely cracked me up.
mmm Heavily pixilated low res itunes content on my tv.
Theres nothing like watching a tv show that looks like a Pointilism painting.
If this had dvr functions they might have something, but as a glorified PC to tv adaptor its useless.
Pretty much a useless product for us canadians in the great white north, we have no video content to download from itunes. No shows! No Movies! And I guess I won't be buying one!
At least with MCE 2005 I can stream my itunes through 3rd party software, play divx/ xvid, play my backed up dvd's from my hard drive and play a lot more different formats than the apple tv.
It's too bad because this looks like a nice piece of hardware with a great interface reasonably priced but it's totally crippled in my opinion.
This is a niche product for ardent loyal Apple followers.
This is just my 4 CDN cents (2 US cents)…
@ Icc3 & Goebbels,
THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT TO PURCHASE CONTENT FROM THE iTUNES STORE TO USE iTUNES OR APPLETV!
Oh, and Goebbels, if my iTunes Library can play any Ogg, Divx, XviD, 3viD, or WMV I can through at it then yours should too.
Apple TV is basically an ipod for the TV. Thank goodness I have an s-vid output on my laptop. $300 saved.
Mid March? I placed my order on Jan 9. I recieved the same email and went and check
Ships by: Mar 20
Delivers by: Mar 26
When did March 20 become Mid-March?
So its essentially a $300 wireless bridge for a video connection? It doesn't even have a hard drive. Overprice much apple?
--
Are you inbred? It does have a hard drive. You're paying for the software, which punks anything made by Cisco, Netgear, etc
Apple could very well turn this thing into a Mac mini or a Video Game device as well. Trojan Horse much Apple?
Mr. Nimrod:
With all due respect, I think you are dead wrong on this issue. First of all, you don't need a "powerful processor" to make a tivo like device. Don't believe me? Tivo doesn't have one. Second, and this is tied to the first point, there is something called a hardware mpeg encoder. The Hauppague tuners use them and I suspect the Tivo units use them too. They do all of the encoding and put a very minor load on the processor. By the way, before you tell me how expensive these things are, I suggest you go to newegg.com. The Hauppauge 150 hardware encoder (which encodes mpegs at 720x480) sells for $64. The only other thing you really need is a hard drive...and I think that the Apple TV comes with one. And before you attack a 40 gig drive remember that there are a few million tivo units out there with drives of the same size. You guessed it...the standard Series 2 tivo comes with a 40 gig drive. You do not need a powerful processor to have a tivo like device. You need a modest processor, a hard ware encoder, and a hard drive.
You are, however, 100% right about Tivo losing money. Then again, that is an unfair comparison. Last Christmas, Tivo was giving DVR's away for free. Apple could charge $400 for them. Apple could also, on its name alone, charge more per month than Tivo does.
If you can tell me that the Apple TV is a great device, well then, I want know what you are drinking. Wow...I get to watch the shows that I paid $2 bucks for on my tv. I paid $300 for lifetime service on my tivo. I get much more value for my money than you ever will with that Apple TV. Between the kids and my wife and I, I probably record 10 shows a week. Using the Apple model you would spend $20 a week for the same functionality - assuming of course that you could purchase all of the shows that I can record on my tivo (you can't). Assuming you record half of the shows I do you would spend $520 a year on Itunes (5 shows @ $2 = $10 a week X 52 weeks). Which device sounds better to you?
The sad thing is that you are obviously one of those people that can't handle someone saying something bad about Apple. I hate to tell you this but Apple doesn't always make great products. Hummm. Lisa? Newton? Apple TV could have been awesome. Instead, it is merely an extension to your ipod. I guess the apple pundits were right...Apple did release a wide screen ipod. It is called your TV.
For me, the most exciting point is that this appears to be the first of many possible revisions- and the fact that this is some of the first wireless n based gear. When I look back on the first ipods, they have improved a great deal. So has the itunes store selection. It won't be long before we have our choice of practically instant 1080p content. I will skip this AppleTV, but it is an important evolutionary step... a shame they didnt meet their goal, but the sheer number of fanboys and haters lets you know Apple is still white hot.
I posted a link to a very good article written by Daniel Eran which described the difference between Apple TV and Windows Media Center PC. And did a follow up discussing the video quality of iTunes movies. Link here: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/D1925D1E-7479-4F44-B3B7-472113B366D8.html
Read it, and it will explain all.
Basically, Apple TV is not meant to replace your DVR, DVD Player, or Cable/Satellite TV service. Apple TV is not meant to be a full blown Computer system with DVR or Real time TV capabilites like a Windows Media Center PC.
It is a complimentary device.
If Apple wanted to building DVR, they would have.
It is the media center extender part of the Xbox 360, without any of the other functionality of the 360, for a similar price.
>>"That is why many consider the Xbox 360 for $100 more to be a better purchase, however if you want to stream media from a Mac the xbox will leave you SOL."
Ok, last comment messed up.. it was meant to read:
Josh, check out connect360. It will allow you to access your iTunes and iPhoto libraries from yuor Mac via the Xbox 360. No windows required.
"Connect360 supports MP3, AAC, WAV, AIFF and Apple Lossless for Music. For Photos, Connect360 supports: JPEG, RAW, GIF, PNG, BMP and TIFF. For video streaming, currently only WMV+WMA files are supported. "
Wow that's uhm really unimpressive, and to whom ever posted the link comparing this at $299 to a media center pc at $1000, that link forget one thing, you'll still have to buy a damn pc/mac for this thing to even work.
Duh! The Apple TV assumes you have PC or Mac already. Same concept with MP3 player.
The point the article was that why buy another PC or Mac for over a grand. They guy is bias like myself against Micrsoft. So you have to read between the lines.
But if you are in the market for a new PC, then great. Go buy a Window Media Center PC.
But if you just want stream or sync music, photos, movies, tv shows from iTunes libray on your PC or Mac to your HDTV, then the Apple TV is a solution and not the only one.
And ya... I ordered an Apple TV. I don't do it blindly. I looked at the overview and the tech specs. The things I asked myself, was
1) Does it offer something I want? Yes. I have looked at similar devices like UPnP media clients, iPod docks with A/V connections, Mac Mini computer, etc...
None really seemed worth while.
2) Can I afford? Easily.
3) How does it fit into my home theather system setup. Very well.
If I had an Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii; then Apple TV would have been a no go (unless until it got a better A/V Receiver).
Now that the reasonable people know that the AppleTV is a complimentary device for media on your computer(s), and not a replacement for your cable/satellite, DVR, and DVD player, lets delve into the reason for this blog.
Why was Apple unable to make it's self-imposed deadline? We've known about the deivce for about 6 months now. It's not difficult from a hardware perscpective.
I'm guessing that the software to allow seamless streaming from the Window's side still had some major issues.
Maybe something with iTunes itself and not the AppleTV.
You can stream media from Mac to Xbox 360 -- Connect360 does the trick pretty nicely.
However, I think AppleTV will be pretty elegant a solution, if the iPod/iTunes model bears out.
It does appear that video is limited to MPEG-4 Parts 2 and 10 (H.264/AVC), and 720p is limited to 24fps -- at least according to the tech specs page. I wish 720p would be 30fps or better. :(
AppleTV = Xbox or Xbox360 without the gaming capability and streaming of HDTV. Of course Apple commercials will make you think its the greatest thing ever. They should if M$ is too shortsighted to actually let people know they can do such things with their Xbox. There are millions of Xbox units out there. For M$ not to take advantage of this is a crime. They should be arrested.
Wheres the tape go? Don't tell me I'd have to throw out my vhs tapes. Will it do laser disc?
"Most people love Apple and an Apple tivo device would sell millions"
That's so utterly wrong, no one outside of the tech world gives a shit about Apple.
I disagree with you 100%. I guess you are about to tell me that the Ipod offers more features for a better price than some competing products? No. Don't get me wrong, the Ipod line is awesome. But many other flash mp3 devices offer more features for less money.
Don't kid yourself - many people buy Ipods because they are made by apple. Apple spends a lot on marketing. People like to be seen wearing those earbud headphones. It is a status symbol as much as the product is a good one. That being said, don't be foolish and think that people don't buy goods on the name alone.
As for the DVR comments, many of you have twisted my words rather than answering my criticism of the product. I know that the Apple TV is a complimentary device. I get that. What I said was that if Apple really wanted to take over the living room, they would have released a DVR - not an extender. And I know, whatever your name is, I know that Apple could have made one if they wanted to. Taht is my point. The technology is there and contrary to what has been posted here, it isn't expensive to make. Aplle chose not to make one. I believe that they made that choice because they would rather sell you shows a $2 a head than make you pay a flat fee for a tivo like device. That is a choice that the company made and all I was saying is that you, the consumer, don't win in that scenario.
And by the way, I paid $100 for my tivo unit. It offers DVR capabilites and allows me to not only record programs on its 40 gig drive, but also allows me to stream mpegs (like movies of my kids) from my computer via tivotogo. It also lets me play my mpegs and look at the pictures on my computer. I got all of this, dvr recordings and all, for a total of $400 (100 for the unit and 300 for lifetime service).
This is not meant to be a tivo is better than apple tv. You are right to suggest that they are different. They are. Tivo offers a better solution - one that apple could have adopted.
flame on.
I know how they both operate. Haven't you seen the YouTube video of it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJebZ_JwnBk
It pretty much looks like WMC. Works just about the same way. But it's still new, so there might be bugs, MSFT was first, and it's a bit too pricey for what you can get with buying an OS that includes it, and a top-selling gaming console as an extender for it. You pretty much get a better deal buying a Windows OS with Media Center, and an Xbox 360, then just buying Apple TV for a ridiculous price. Sure it cost less than buying the Windows OS + xbox 360, but it's a more better deal to stick with Media Center.
There was a rumour that it would stream your desktop to any TV it was hooked up to in the house and they were keeping this quiet till Leopard launched, if this isn't exactly hidden then maybe part of the reason it's delayed so much is it's aligning itself with a release of leopard. if it did indeed sport the ability to give you your main computer in each room, not like a mac mini accessing shared drives over wifi, actually let you use your computer as if you were in front of it but from TV's around your house then I reckon it would be very impressive. As it currently stands it doesn't sound all that exciting especially due to it's inability to handle a lot of common video codecs.
TiVo partnering with Netflix and offering on-demand downloads of Movies from the Netflix catalog has already made AppleTV obsolete. I'm sure TiVo will be working out similar deals with the television networks too...
XBOX Live also offers similar on-demand functionality and it doesn't require someone to have another box sitting in their living room.
I currently have a D-Link media player which already plays all formats of video in 1080 using HDMI. I can use any media server I want too.
I think AppleTV is a good mass market idea because it simplifies things for Joe User; however, I think it just came a little too late.
There are already better alternatives and more on the horizon. AppleTV is actually playing catch up here.
Well, it's coming, but it's as useless as ever.
Ok, where to start...
1. "instead of streaming over the internet to portable devices, its streaming content on your itunes to your HDTV. It's all about encouraging people to buy itunes content"
And to think people accuse MS of monopolistic tendencies. If you use any platform of computer, you are supporting some kind of greedy pig corp (except maybe Linux); therefore, any Mac user accusing MS of extending its tentacles everywhere is a hypocrite. Same goes for MS fanboys like myself accusing Apple.
2. "when you get beyond the 25-26 age threshold, you don't want to be using an Xbox controller to fast forward anymore"
Surely, you can get a DVD remote for the 360. When the system first came out last year, they were also selling harmony remotes (the super universal remotes with LCD screens and all that useless crap). Even if you can't get one of those, couldn't you just get a normal universal remote and use Code Search to find whatever heck brand a 360 is?
3. I guess I only have two comments first this page. I'll come back after I browse the ther pages...
Apple TV delivers very poor video quality using compressed mpeg4 files that is not even up to VHS standards. Huge step backward from HiDef TV. Tack on expensive and tedious downloads, and the fact that it's more expensive than better quality alternatives.
It's criminal that the payola Apple ponies up to get featured as "news items" on MSNBC, CNN, Good Morning America, etc. works. It just proves that the American media have no integrity and Apple certainly takes advantage of it.
Only a fool would buy Apple TV online without comparing it in the store next to the signal coming back from a (cheaper, faster, better) hi-def video recorder like Tivo.