It really doesn't take a keen eye for news these days to spot the
all-out PR blitz by team Blu-ray to convince the masses that
the format war is over and Blu-ray has won. Now
Toshiba is finally sticking up for itself, in specific response to Blu-ray's recent CeBIT press conference. Olivier Van Wynendaele, Deputy General manager of HD DVD at Toshiba, calls the Blu-ray claims "propaganda" and disputes the Blu-ray points. For instance, the new 3:1 sales figure being touted by the Blu-ray Disc Association in regards to Blu-ray to HD DVD sales is claimed by Wynendaele to be artificially inflated by free Blu-ray movie vouchers being redeemed by PlayStation 3 owners. He also notes that Toshiba has sold 200,000 HD DVD players in the US, in comparison to the 30,000 standalone Blu-ray players sold, and that it's not clear yet how many Blu-ray movies the two million PS3 owners are going to be watching. Olivier also promised that Toshiba will undercut Sony prices every step of the way, and made it clear that while HD players account for less than 1% of DVD player sales, it's way too early to call the war for either side.
posted Mar 19th 2007 2:56PM
200,000 vs 2,030,000 ... sounds like an asswhoppin to me.
"Olivier also promised that Toshiba will undercut Sony prices every step of the way"
now this is the one up side to whole format war... it should drive the prices down a little faster... and i like the idea of cheaper HD faster...
of course in the end i doubt i'll get either....
Simple: Blu-ray will win because of the PS3. People who want to splash out on a HD movie player will want to get one with a HD games console built in. Which would you pay for, $499.99 for a toshiba HD-DVD player, or $599.99 for a PS3??
However, in the console wars, PS3 will not win because of blu-ray, because as a console, it is overpriced, even if it is cheap as a BD player.
Simple: Blu-ray will win because of the PS3. People who want to splash out on a HD movie player will want to get one with a HD games console built in. Which would you pay for, $499.99 for a toshiba HD-DVD player, or $599.99 for a PS3??
However, in the console wars, PS3 will not win because of blu-ray, because as a console, it is overpriced, even if it is cheap as a BD player.
Have you price checked the HD-DVD player online recently. It is going for around $350. That is a heck of a lot better than the PS3.
I will not buy the PS3 because it will not work with a universal remote (lame) and I don't play console games. And although I would probably prefer the content of Blu-ray I will probably get a HD-dvd player first due to price. I am sure I will get one of each when prices come down, but HD-DVD's players seem within my grasp whereas Blu-ray does not.
Re: betamax vs. VHS...err....I mean BluRay vs. HDDVD
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana
If HD-DVD wants to make a point, maybe they should release some new HD-DVD titles.
Free movie vouchers with the PS3? What free movie vouchers? I only got $10 coupons! I only used one too! What about the 9 free HD DVDs you get when you buy an HD DVD player? (4-5 from Toshiba, and 4-5 through the store - I think its Best Buy)
@Michael
No your missing the point, the point is a Toshiba rep is trying to make HD DVD look superior. Why would they point out facts that reflect negatively against them?
Of course Sony giving away one movie per console vs. Toshiba giving away 5 would help explain some of the attach rate. ;)
You do know that HD-DVD content has widely been reported as being far better than Blu-Ray don't you??? On the content and extras side HD-DVD is certainly the better format thus far. The upcoming Children of Men HD-DVD is a good case in point.
Re: universal remote
When you see the functionality of the PS3 blu-ray remote, you won't want to use the crappy universal remote you proabably own right now. (obviously, those of you who own the godlike touchscreen auto-programmable remotes do not apply to this arguement).
I'd be curious how many of the XBox360 HDDVD add-on drives have been sold.
Good point Todd. You need to reverse the HD DVD and BluRay there in your post however... HD DVD is the Betamax in this case-- arguably better format with only 4 supporters solely on their side (MS, Toshiba, Intel, Universal)-- versus BluRay with _everyone_ else (Sony, Dell, Apple, HP, Pioneer, Sanyo, Sharp, Warner, Disney, MGM, Paramount...
erac3x,
Um, you are the bass-ackwards one. BluRay ~ BetaMax. Bluray has more features and show more promise of continual improvement (more "future" capacity, etc.). HD DVD would be synonymous to VHS as it is more of a "here and now fix" rather than a "lets do it right". HD DVD is the current winner mostly because they are cheaper, but BluRay should win, just as Betamax should have won, but hopefully Bluray isn't doomed to Betamax's fate.
Sony: Go to Hell.
I hate you Toshiba. And I hate you Sony. Go stick your competing formats where the sun doesn't shine. You'd all make more money RIGHT NOW if you stopped wanking yourselves off and agreed. Any self respecting consumer won't waste their money on this crap until the jerkfest is over. (so there!)
@erac3rx
i dont get why people still think HP is pro BluRay when as I remember it, I tried customizing an HP laptop on their site and one of the options was an HD DVD drive. No BluRay option.
I believe this war will be won conclusively by Blu-Ray. I can't understand someone paying so much for a HD-DVD player, then having to deal with so few studios even supporting the so called standard. Blu-Ray has backing from nearly every studio, and the marketing muscle of Sony behind it.
To add on to this, the PS3 is an excellent Blu-Ray player, that also plays HD games, streams video, and is a literal steal at 600 bucks. Many other HD streaming boxes cost at least 400, so what's 200 more get you? Everything!
I have a Concrete Brick I bet you'd like.. and I'll sell it to you for $200.. a steal! You can do all kinds of things with it. You can sit on it. Put it on a table. Drive around with it. Paint it. Love it! I'll even put a sticker on it that says Sony.
Your paying for S/H though! Which is about the same you'd pay for a PS3 to ship.
HD DVD will lose the war if they don't release some decent movies SOON!!!
In the end format wars are won by whoever gets the consumer to like their format. Not by debate. So let's just take this article as a sample (admittedly a rather poor one statistically, but I'm not about to actually run a survey). There are 5 pro-blu-ray posts with two of them being written by the same person and modded down like hell. There are 4 pro-HDDVD posts, all of them written by different people and one of them modded up. Seems like the public is for HDDVD (and this one is the 5th pro-HDDVD).
Lets not forget the $199 Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player, which also works on a PC.
That's the absolute most I'd pay for a ROM drive or a standalone, be it Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.
I was originally a die-hard HD DVD supporter due to price and the fact that the initial Blu-ray titles looked like upconverted DVD's.
Now that they've got the quality thing under control, the problem is still price. Players have come down in price, though the BD camp has a better hardware selection. Fox's insistence on robbing people of $35 for every Blu-ray title is obscene... as is the $35 DVD/HDDVD combo disc pricing (or $37.99-$39.99 at Best Buy).
On the plus side, the selection of Blu-ray titles has started to pull away from HD DVD. Content is king and I can't imagine that Paramount and Warner will waste money supporting dual formats forever.
Then again, EA and other big name studios release games on multiple platforms and that seems to work... so who knows? Will the movie buying public support two formats?
My other gripe about HD DVD's is that they are scratch prone. Simply wiping a disc on my soft cotton shirt leaves micro scratches on the disc. Blu-ray discs, on the other hand, are near impossible to scratch. That's a selling point for me.
About time Toshiba said something, anything. I mean come on, Sony has been spewing their victory crap for months and NOW Toshiba says something? I think Toshiba is set to win, at least go the distance, but they need to be more aggressive in marketing and title releases.
(I have a PS3 and own both formats, but I would NEVER buy a stand alone BRD player over $1000 and neither will J6P)
"I believe this war will be won conclusively by Blu-Ray."
I believe it *has* been won conclusively by Blu-Ray.
Sony and Toshiba can spin all they want. But it's not Sony putting out the numbers saying that Blu-Ray is ahead 3:1. It's Nielsen and NPD. Those are independent organizations tracking actual store sales, not freebies or pack-ins.
I also don't buy for a second that 200,000 standalone HD-DVD players have been sold and only 30,000 Blu-Ray players. I think it's possible it's only 30,000 players for *both* formats, but that Toshiba's including the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive in the "standalone player" category (hey, it stands alone, and isn't strictly a game console in itself...).
But that really doesn't matter anyway; what matters is how many players in total are out there. Who cares if they're standalone or not? Ok, so for the sake of argument, let's say standalone player owners theoretically would buy more movies, because they've proven their interest in the movies rather than games (some PS3 owners would be able to play Blu-Ray movies but would possibly have no interest in doing so). How, then, do you reconcile the disparity in the actual sales of discs? If there are so many more standalone HD-DVD players out there but the discs don't sell, can you really believe that statistic? If it is truth, then it obviously doesn't matter, because people are obviously still more interested in buying Blu-Ray discs.
But I think that any way you slice it, the PS3 cannot be counted out of this race. The PS3 is driving sales of Blu-Ray discs, and it's already tipped the balance conclusively in Blu-Ray's favor.
(It is the better technology too, so hooray for its victory.)
More space doesn't mean better.
Blu-ray has more DRM, they've used lesser codecs to date, and they use an awful programming language for the features. I've used a switchbox to compare upscaled DVD to Blu-ray...and the difference is depressingly minor. I feel more like Sony stole my $600 than I stole from them.
I don't have my own HD-DVD drive, but from what I've seen, it blows everything I've watched on Blu-ray away. Even downloaded content from XBL looks better than Blu-ray...and that's watched over component. What's so great about Blu-ray?
The few times I've watched Blu-ray movies, I've pointed it out to visitors that it's in HD. They were always surprised, because it wasn't noticeable unless you really looked for it. And this is on a 57" HDTV screen at 1080p over their precious HDMI cable.
My vote? Both formats are a sham in the end.
Jeff your post makes no sense.
Nielsen/NPD number track retail. The $10 is on RETAIL purchases. So their deal does in fact change the numbers reported. Toshibas deal on 3 or 5 free movies is fulfilled directly and not through retail stores.
PS3 is NOT superior technology beyond the bandwidth of Blu-ray discs which means little with efficient codecs like AVC and VC-1.
Dear Toshiba,
It would be too early to tell if Blu-ray has won the format war if you considered a single data point on a trend curve to be an indicator of future performance. Sadly, this is not the case.
Considering the sheer volume of PS3 sales, current sales trends, and future sales trends, HD-DVD has lost. However, we admire your spunk in the face of adversity.
Sincerely,
Reality
OK buddy 10.7 million 360 consoles world wide as opposed to athe rounded up number of 2 million (1.6) million. and blu ray has won!!! lol i scough on blu ray those sneaky (Sony) Japs trying to pack in movies. Hell if thats the case why dont we even the odds hey they packed the king kong with the xbox drive!! And Im sorry for all you sapps that think the ps3 will win, because it wont they waited too long! If they truely wanted to smash the xbox they should have had the same release date. But they wanted to bundle the bd player with it!! What a folly!!! A whole year of sales wasted!!!! And I dont know about you but I dont like the durability of blu ray one bit its noted that the disc is to sensitive with or with out a "protective coating" that makes it just that much more expensive any way. And the ps3 cannot upcovert( HD dvd attachment for the 360 does!!) if you are going hd dont half ass it you need to upconvert all the current movies you have, or else you wasted too much money. But hey what the hell it can hold 50 gb holy crap!! Why is it that they only contain 25 gb or so now any way??? Because they cant do it now thats why. I like the hd dvd approach to this "WAR" they are only using the 25 gb as a standard and when the public is ready for the big guns they will let it out. I mean whats the sense of charging all this crap if you cant take advantage of this right now??? Hey the only two things blue ray has going is storage(which will be gone by the years end...see article here... 51 GB HD DVD disc rivals Blu-ray capacity
Further blurring the line of which format is technically superior, Toshiba has announced that it has successfully created a triple-layer HD DVD disc that holds 51 GB of data. It has begun the process of submitting it for regulatory approval.
Blu-ray Disc (BD) has been regarded as the winner in terms of capacity since the beginning of the next-generation format war. However, the 51 GB HD DVD would slightly overpower BD, which currently has a maximum capacity of 50 GB. Previously, HD DVDs were only available in 15 GB and 30 GB capacities.
Feasibility is a big question, though. It's unclear if the addition of a third layer on an HD DVD would significantly increase mass production costs or time.
According to media reports, Toshiba is planning to launch the new format before the end of the year.
Now the next thing is support! yeah, blu ray has more support in the movie industry. They will sway sooner or later because 1. Games are starting to come out for 360 that used to be exlusive to sony. (armored core,Virtua FIghter, UnrealTournament was origionally-but thanks to the blockbuster sales of 360 they decided to sell out too)As the studios see that they are missing out on the big picture they too will start to change their tune. 2. we all know MS is one hell of a giant I mean I dont remember the government breaking up Sony?? MS has too much clout to be pushed around by sony. This muck that sony started slinging around was not needed at all. And they will lose out on the whole porn industry for being stupid. So hey go ahead and support the Sonys Evil Empire.....hey wast it them who was told by the government that they had to remove some kind of Spy ware from their software??? Crooks.
I can tell you right now that both formats have lost. Blu-ray is already obsoleted by "Red-ray". HD DVD has bad marketing, there are "not enough repeated letters, so it's being replaced with HHDDVVDD BVD."
"HD players account for less than 1% of DVD player sales, it's way too early to call the war for either side."
The only thing they said that means anything.
Just as you say PS3 is the key to blu-ray victory, the same can be said for HD-DVD is the key for Xbox 360. For the 10million Xbox 360 users, you can buy an add-on for $200, which can also be used on your PC. Great for HTPC users who can now rip HD-DVDs to their HD or who prefer to watch some movies from the HTPC. Flexibility is a great advantage with the HD-DVD add on. PS3 has sold 2 million and the sales are coming to a grind, because anyone who wants a PS3 has already bought one. Besides HD-DVD has the side of the Porn Industry. That's where the stand alone for $399 or even less comes in handy. When you want to wach a some high def porn, you don't have to kick the kids off of Ratchet and Clank to watch Hatchet and Skank!
BluRay never had a chance. Compared to the whole population, virtually no one has a ps3, and its currently the least popular current gen console. The HD-DVD players are going to be steals on a Black Friday sale at Walmart in a year or two (when they get in the $200 range), and then the "war" will be over. Sony will lose again, just like they did with Betamax and UMD and Atrac and memory sticks, because people don't want to pay extra. Price is everything when consumers have been trained to buy $10 movies on $30 players.
And then a couple years will pass, and they'll both be ignored for Apple TV. And then maybe I'll buy one.
I've been keeping a pretty close eye on the top 100 sellers on Amazon's DVD section for the past few months. Bluray constantly has higher rankings and more titles in the top 100 than HD-DVD. About a week or two ago I checked in, and 20 of those top 100 were Bluray titles. There was not 1 HD-DVD title on the list.
I don't particularly support either format yet, as I don't even have an HDTV, and I know that Amazon isn't the only seller of this media. But, from what I've been seeing, Bluray is rapidly leaving HD-DVD in the dust.
Yeah, Blu-ray's won. There's a slight lead for Blu-ray now, and that's only going to get magnified as Blu-ray title demand expands from PS3 owners. Supply of Blu-ray titles increase relative to HD-DVD, and previously "on-the-fence" consumers see the vast title offerings and falling stand-alone Blu-ray player prices, creating a domino adoption effect. Unless HD-DVD can significantly slash standalone player prices to the sub $300, sub $200 levels far before Blu-ray (by relinquishing oh-so-precious licensing fees) there's no way HD-DVD will ever catch up. The average consumer sees both formats as identical quality-wise so the only factors influencing their eventual choice is cost of the player and availability of titles.
I have a few things to say on why HD DVD will win in the end:
1) If I remember correctly, someone once said that the read speed of BlueRay disks are so slow, that they can only be used for movies, meaning that the extra information they can hold on the disks just adds to the loading times!
2) If I didn't know anything about electronics, I would naturally see HD DVD as the natural progression of video media, and I would be more likely to buy it.
3) HD DVD costs less than BlueRay
4) I don't think I have seen one Ad for BlueRay
5) Since Microsoft is pushing HD DVD, they might decide to put tons of support right into Vista, for HD DVD but not Blueray (Ie. the disk plaiyers for HD DVD will have the drivers supported automaticly (no seperate downloading or installing)
6) Holographic Virsital Disks are going to stomp all over BlueRay with their faster read speeds, and higher storage amounts because people will see those two formats competing with each other, where as the name HD DVD inherently causes people to think of the format as usefull for videos
6) The PS3 hasn't been selling nearly as much as the 360 or the Wii, and the 360's HD DVD player costs $200 where as the BlueRay playe's lowest cost happens to be $499
So who will win?
"1) If I remember correctly, someone once said that the read speed of BlueRay disks are so slow, that they can only be used for movies, meaning that the extra information they can hold on the disks just adds to the loading times!"
Wrong. HD-DVD requires a 36Mbps bandwidth. It's throughput is nice, but it's FAR slower than Blu-ray's 54Mbps throughput requirements.
"2) If I didn't know anything about electronics, I would naturally see HD DVD as the natural progression of video media, and I would be more likely to buy it."
That's great for you, but you're not representative of what is actually happening. Most people are buying into Blu-ray. PS3 has played a significant factor.
"3) HD DVD costs less than BlueRay"
Movies? Theyre quite comparable, and often Blu-ray is cheaper than the lame HDDVD/DVD combo nonsense. See: Amazon/DVDempire and look at the rankings too. Blu-ray has taken over. As for production? Both Blu-ray and HDDVD are under the two dollar mark.
"4) I don't think I have seen one Ad for BlueRay"
Casino Royale Blu-ray ads all over the place says hi.
"5) Since Microsoft is pushing HD DVD, they might decide to put tons of support right into Vista, for HD DVD but not Blueray (Ie. the disk plaiyers for HD DVD will have the drivers supported automaticly (no seperate downloading or installing)"
We used to have to install CD/DVD drivers separately under windows back in the day, for years and years. That didn't stop anybody, and will do diddly for the HDDVD camp. With so many hardware manufacturers behind Blu-ray, Microsoft will eventually have native drivers. And finally, with HDDVD performing poorly, that's not a selling point.
"6) Holographic Virsital Disks are going to stomp all over BlueRay with their faster read speeds, and higher storage amounts because people will see those two formats competing with each other, where as the name HD DVD inherently causes people to think of the format as usefull for videos"
Versatile, I hope. HVDs are not going to be adopted by Hollywood at any time in the next decade. HVDs cost about $120 a disc. ****120 DOLLARS US****. You can dismiss that idea now.
"6) The PS3 hasn't been selling nearly as much as the 360 or the Wii, and the 360's HD DVD player costs $200 where as the BlueRay playe's lowest cost happens to be $499"
The PS3 doesn't need to sell as much to win the HD war. The PS3 release in europe will put the nail in the coffin for HDDVD (which isn't selling so hot in europe as it is, it's doing nothing in Japan either), but if the PS3 helped put Blu-ray ahead in the US, what do you think europe will do for Blu-ray? "It's over, Johnny."
"So who will win?"
LOL !
Dear 'Reality',
The format war as it stands right now is being waged between consumers who are not representative of the general public (e.g. techies and next-gen video game console owners). Ask your relatives or people you pass on the street what a HD-DVD or Blu-ray disk are. You won't get many correct responses. Most people I've talked to about it either have no idea what they are, or are too confused to enter the market. Unless one side or the other gives up, this war will wage on for some time to come. Might not matter anyway, since in the end they're all going to lose to digital content distribution.
Sincerely,
Your Friend Reality Check
And yet...we are all forgetting something.
We should hope that this 'storm in a teacup' battle between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray blows over as quickly as it came. This format 'war' is only holding back greater technologies such as HVD (Holographic Versatile Disc - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc) and IPTV etc. (downloading to a huge HDD and/or On-Demand services).
This format 'war' is simply a money-making scheme for the electronics industry & the public loses out whoever wins. This isn't the simple matter of a 'filler' standard, rather more a case of standard that shouldn't exist. If the money went into HVD and other such technologies, we'd have a system with far better transfer rates than current disc formats and a far superior storage capacity. True, the media reader will currently cost about $15,000, but the prices can soon be brought to fall rapidly under mass production, and a greater understanding of the production of the technology etc.! The disc prices - $120-180. For a theoretical 3.9Tb of storage (that price is taken for 300Gb discs, so the greater storage will cost more, but not vastly so to produce), this is a superb price. And why aren't these technologies going to be available for at least say, 5 years (if not 10)? The answer is simple - to make the electronics industry more money (and film producers & other media producers etc.)! We're pretty much slaves to them, but bickering how best to serve them - ridiculous! I, for one, hope that DVD remains the dominant format for many years to come - are we so lazy to just not be able to get up for 30 seconds just a change a disc? It's still a useful format, and one that's extremely cheap now. Yet, as soon as it becomes so cheap, the electronics industry can't screw so much money out of us so...let's introduce a new format! Madness, and extremely annoying!
Here's to hoping, one and all, that DVD can hold on to life & that the greater formats may [eventually] burst forth!
All the best,
Andy
P.S. Oh, and I don't expect many to agree with me. It's just my take on it. And if you're wondering what I'll do if DVD production is ceased and HD-DVD or Blu-Ray has taken over...
Well, I'll probably be forced to buy one. But I'll be damn well pushed to do so.
It's no surprise to find the losing team whining their butts off. Oh, and I totally agree with Michael...
This article is so more accurate compared to the shit from Sony's mouth. Again, any HD sales only account for 1% of DVD Players. I would hardly count either side 'winners'
I'm still supporting HD DVD and will be getting the HD DVD Player for the 360 eventually. I am defineately waiting for more movies. Right now the only thing holding me back is there only one movie I want that is HD (Brokeback Mountian).
http://www.startblue.net
On AVSForums, it sounds like Van Wynendaele is misrepresenting what Sony did with the ps3- they offered rebates, not free vouchers. Unless they were FAR coupons (which they weren't- they were $10 off rebates), I don't see a problem.
I keep hearing that Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD is the same as Betamax vs. VHS. This is a foolish analogy. Please think about who 'won' : SACD or DVD-Audio? Answer: neither -- they were both resoundingly rejected by the masses, deemed unnecessary, overpriced, inconvenient and confusing. Sound familiar?
Optical media is DEAD. Deal with it.
optical media is dead Joshua and CD vs. MD? um maybe you are in the US or S. Korea where you have access to lightning quick internet and cheap or no download limits...most of the world doesn't have this luxury yet, and those who want High Definition movies still need optical media. For at least a few more years.
As for the war, this time HD DVD is the niche player like Betamax, and content is what will determine the winner. Content for Blu Ray is much much broader, Blu Ray will win.
This whole debate will soon be academic when the "Total HD" discs hit the scene: Blu-ray on one side...HD-DVD on the other. I HATE two-sided discs, so I hope that HD-DVD dies soon to eliminate the need for such a dreadful thing.
My early money was on HD DVD because of price and the fact that they had a jump start ahead of Blu-ray. Plus, Samsung's early video quality issues helped reinforce my opinion. However, I don't see how HD-DVD can possibly survive with Toshiba being the only company making stand-alone players. I would now be much more likely to risk my money on buying a Blu-ray player (probably for my Media Center PC) but not until the prices come down some more.
CD : MD as HD-DVD : BRD
...or really, who cares 'cause both CDs and MDs are dead. Likewise, all optical drives are a dying breed. While it seems fitting that Sony is funding another shortlived technology, it seems quite counterproductive to discuss which technology is going to be less of a failure.
We can already deliver HD quality to the home via internet / cable, let the narrowminded powers have their fight and we can use our creative powers to take what's next.
HD-DVD is doomed, fair and square, they have minority hardware support, minority studio support, and they players are expensive.
PS3 is a kick-ass Blu-Ray player, for $499, with the next wave of cheap Blu-Ray standalones just around the corner.
Added to 1,000,000 more Blu-Ray owners in less than a week..
HDDVD will win singulary on satisified users and on the other hand I know many blu-ray standalone costumers have returned their players as a resolt of the pure quality.
Sincerely and Undoubtly
Reality
Anyone who says Blu-ray is a SONY format should be stricken from the debate all together! GAWD Dammit people! You need to learn facts before you make these rants.
Panasonic developed Blu-ray and it is amazing to use as a storage device because it works just like a hard drive in your PC (ala DVDRAM technology also developed by Panasonic). Blu-ray backers (Sony) understand that this technological breakthrough with its 100GB / 200GB future spec had already won before they left the gates. (They are developing the future discs to be within the Blu-ray playback spec so you won't have to buy a new player to use them! :) )
I can tell you from experience, in Japan, the was was over a long time ago. No one is using or even looking at HD DVD, and the main thing they tell people is "just wait a year... it takes a year for consumers around the world to see what we see now - Blu-ray has won"
Please stop saying Sony is the creator of blu-ray like they were betamax. Its backed by everyone in the industry EXCEPT a *FEW*.
BOO-HOO YOU HAVE TO SPEND A FEW BUCKS MORE TO BE AN EARLY ADOPTER.
I remember reading an article on Cnet that tested Blu-Ray against HD-DVD and the results were almost inconclusive. They said that the Blu-ray was just a little bit better, but you couldnt really tell if you didn't compare them side by side. So, the next purchase point would be price and HD-DVD beats Blu-ray's price.
Although, since Blu-Ray is a new technology it still has to be futher developed...
This format war would be over IF Blu-Ray started incorporating VC-1 encoding into their standard practice. I am a firm Blu-Ray supporter, but they shouldn't be deemed the victors while still using old MPEG technology. Time to step it up or get out of the race.
Coupla things on the xbox360 HD-DVD standalone unit.
1st. I was under the impression that it doesn't play GAMES.
2nd. Since it's a usb device I expect that you'll be able to use it on the PS3 soon enough! Now what?
If Sony is claiming victory this early in the format war, they should admit defeat in the console war. They can't have it both ways and say that it's too soon to determine the console war and well past the time when we're able to determine the format victor. Then again, this is Sony.
Btw... add this as a pro-HD-DVD post on that survey earlier. True... a lot of it is anti-Sony sentiment from me (Refugee, rootkit, PS3's PR department, low-value consumer electronics, offensive advertising, etcetera).
Plus, more of the stuff I prefer is dedicated to HD than Blu-Ray (i.e. movie studio commitment).
I would have to totally agree with Tim up above there, the format "war" is mostly made up of gamers, techies (resisting...urge...to say.... 'trekies'), and people with a lot of money. Mind you the people with a lot of money more than likely have both an HD-DVD and a BR-DVD player or maybe even a combo drive or something of the like. I can't really speak for blue ray but as for HD-DVD I have to say that I've enjoyed an entirely new and unique home theater experience from it. If anything, thats how dvds should have been for a long time.
I think the biggest problem with this debacle over which is better is that too many people see this as a Sony versus Microsoft thing, and not as a format v. format.
My biggest thing is still this: This debate over format is far from over. With the majority of North Americans still watching TV on the old tube style TVs the only people that can take advantage of BR or HD disk formats will be those with newer televisions.
I agree with the statement that "content is king," and I think that the production houses backing HD disks should start pumping out more titles.
Ideally I could definitely see both formats becoming mainstream in the long run, and I think dual formats will bring a fresh breeze of competition between the two. A healthy competition will drive prices down, and at the end of the day will be better for consumers. I would love to see more of the big movie companies publishing movies for both formats, and make things a little more interesting.
What I enjoy the most about this whole thing is how so many people are quick to accuse big corporations like Walmart or Microsoft for being greedy and evil, but are just as fast to defend their own favourite (evil) corporations. Its all about one thing I guess: Money.
I would like to get my hands on one of these "ps3 Blu-ray movie vouchers ".........seriously Toshiba just admit it that you lost against SONY in the format war.Besides retailers are considering pulling the plug on hd-dvd by the end of the year.
- WhackMushroom
You would think the 2Million lead in Blu-Ray players would help...but BR is still only selling 2:1. Thats VERY VERY VERY Bad.
It is uncertain whether Blu Ray will win(both could fail), but it is certain that HD-DVD will lose. The short version of the reason: Content is king.
Longer version.
Hardware: Blu Ray has a large capacity advantage. Already Shipping 50G disks. Up to 200GB spec'ed out. Burners available for your computer for some time now. Blu Ray is the better movie solution into the future as they start cramming more stuff on there and infinitely better for a computer storage medium.
Manufacturer support. Only Toshiba is building HD-DVD players. Sony/Samsung/Panasonic/philips... are all selling Blu Ray
Studio Support. The content is king part. The thing that sells most gear is newer blockbusters. And the Sony/Fox/Disney companies hold the upper hand. Casino Royale, Spiderman, Pirates of the Caribbean etc. Note it doesn't matter whether you like these, this is what sells.
Marketing. Going alone with blockbusters. Now I keep seeing commercials for "Casino Royale" on DVD and Blu Ray. Think when spidermans, POTC are all released and advertised on Blu Ray.
Hardware Base: You can try to rationalize around it all day long but PS3 was the seed that jump started Blu Ray and it isn't going away.
HD DVD Advantages:
Bitter fanboys on Engadget.
I own neither right now, but somehow I think HW advantages, Manufacturer support and Studio support trumps bitter online fanboys.
Casino Royale Blu-ray ads all over the place says hi.
HAHAHAHAHA
I'm perfectly happy with my old-fashioned dvds and my $149 Oppo upconverting player. I have unlimited selection and I can exercise my fair use rights whenever and wherever I want with them.
Uhm... has anyone taken in to consideration how well either format is doing globally? I think much of these thoughts and opinions are based on how things are going in the States, and not elsewhere.
Well, No matter how much better Blu ray specs are in theory, arguably the best quality movie in either format is King Kong.
Plus, HD DVD is coming out with 50 gig discs soon. Is the format war dead? Only in the minds of Blu Ray fanboys. Which format will win? I dont know. Probably neither will. But lets not beat up on either side when both combined only have 1 percent of the market.
"nail in the coffin for HDDVD (which isn't selling so hot in europe as it is, it's doing nothing in Japan either),"
ROTFL!! You do realize that blu ray is virtually dead in Europe? Most european movie companies are supporting HD DVD! Get your facts straight!
It is so obvious that Blu Ray has won. If they are outselling HD-DVD by 2 or 3 to 1 now, then it will only get worse for HD-DVD. I cannot see this reversing anytime soon.
In the end, HD-DVD has the COST advantage (on hardware at least) while Blu Ray as the CONTENT advantage.
Problem for HD-DVD is that their COST advantage is evaporating. At launch the cheapest HD-DVD player was $500 cheaper than the cheapest Blu Ray player. Now, the cheapest Blu Ray player is the 20gb PS3 at $499 - the cheapest HD-DVD player has slipped in price too but its no more than $150 (plus you actually get a game console and media center with the PS3 for free)....and forget about the add-on HD-DVD drive at $199 because you have to buy an Xbox360 first - so you are limited to existing owners....and the sales of the external add-on drive is just not significant enough at this point in any case.
So HD-DVD is losing its big advantage. That will only get worse because you can only buy a HD-DVD player from Toshiba....while there is intense competition from Samsung, Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic, Sharp......and guess what.....they don't mind losing money on those machines if it means people will buy more HDTVs.
So in the end Blu Ray will have the following advantages: Cost, Content, and Capability.
War over and out.
The thing is, I am so sure that Blu Ray is the winner that I wonder how the boys at Toshiba and Universal continue to insist on holding up the fight.....whats the point? - those guys can't be that stupid.
The minute Universal finally cave in and support Blu Ray.....it will be OFFICIALLY over.
I love Blu-ray, and i hope hd dvd dies just to shut up its zealots.
It's funny to see comments like this from Toshiba:
"... to be artificially inflated by free Blu-ray movie vouchers ..."
When they themselves offer a total of 5 free HD DVD movies with player purchases in vouchers, rebates etc to the PS3's one free movie and potential non-related voucher for one other. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
THey are scared and their arguments are weak. If they want to win this war, they need more exclusive "good" titles like Children of Men, Battlestar Galactica. That will win them the war, not these feeble statements.
Why can't they just make it all dual! share the costs which will bring the prices down & everyones happy ! If we have a war like we did with Betamax & VHS it will just push prices sky high or do they what to do that anyway to make more money out of us ?? With chips getting cheaper etc it's about time we got some payback for them forcing new technology onto us
I like features of both, and everyone as a whole would benefit from the merger of both formats, like others have been saying betamax vs. vhs may seem like its happening all over again but its not, here both technologies could easily fail, why?? because they are doing the SAME thing that happen with SACD and DVD-Audio, that is they have come out around the SAME time as digital content........SACD and DVD-Audio lost out not only because of price, but because of .mp3s and the ease to get them, now sure not EVERYone has the means to download a 50GB movie, let alone the hard drive space for it, that doesnt mean it wont soon happen, hell they have 1 Terabyte hard drives out and that means next year 2 Terabytes and 4 Terabytes, all for around the SAME price and less as 500GB ones went for last year......
Blu-Ray sadly enough will end up the winner in about 8 years, but NOT as the HD Movie king but as a secondary storage device since it will be able to hold 400GBs on a disc(8 layers)
Yea I have a PS3, and MAY get an HDDVD drive with my HP laptop next month, but I still wont just hop and buy HD Disc why?? because my Samsung DVD player upconverts to 1080p and makes a regular DVD looks pretty damn good...........so why spend $30 for a Movie that I can get for half that???
and all you dummies saying blu-ray cost TOO much..............you must not realize that VCRs cost around $1000 or more when they FIRST came out..........DVD Player likewise..............hell Pioneer sold a $1,000 DVD player up until last year................
and for those that are saying the PS3 sales are dwindling...............LOOK AT THE PRICE............
The ATARI Cost $699 when it First came out in the 70's............it flew off shelves for a while and stopped til the price came down...........
Xbox and Wii are outselling the PS3!?!? Big Deal.........
PS2 has sold over 100 million plus worldwide and is outselling Both Xbox360 and Wii now..........The PS3 like the PS2 will pick up in sales 2-4 years after initial release Sony knows that, and plan on it to boost sale then.............
Do ya research people........I didnt do all of mine so some of this is off I know............I still know more than some of you............look at both sides of it..............
I like features of both, and everyone as a whole would benefit from the merger of both formats, like others have been saying betamax vs. vhs may seem like its happening all over again but its not, here both technologies could easily fail, why?? because they are doing the SAME thing that happen with SACD and DVD-Audio, that is they have come out around the SAME time as digital content........SACD and DVD-Audio lost out not only because of price, but because of .mp3s and the ease to get them, now sure not EVERYone has the means to download a 50GB movie, let alone the hard drive space for it, that doesnt mean it wont soon happen, hell they have 1 Terabyte hard drives out and that means next year 2 Terabytes and 4 Terabytes, all for around the SAME price and less as 500GB ones went for last year......
Blu-Ray sadly enough will end up the winner in about 8 years, but NOT as the HD Movie king but as a secondary storage device since it will be able to hold 400GBs on a disc(8 layers)
Yea I have a PS3, and MAY get an HDDVD drive with my HP laptop next month, but I still wont just hop and buy HD Disc why?? because my Samsung DVD player upconverts to 1080p and makes a regular DVD looks pretty damn good...........so why spend $30 for a Movie that I can get for half that???
and all you dummies saying blu-ray cost TOO much..............you must not realize that VCRs cost around $1000 or more when they FIRST came out..........DVD Player likewise..............hell Pioneer sold a $1,000 DVD player up until last year................
and for those that are saying the PS3 sales are dwindling...............LOOK AT THE PRICE............
The ATARI Cost $699 when it First came out in the 70's............it flew off shelves for a while and stopped til the price came down...........
Xbox and Wii are outselling the PS3!?!? Big Deal.........
PS2 has sold over 100 million plus worldwide and is outselling Both Xbox360 and Wii now..........The PS3 like the PS2 will pick up in sales 2-4 years after initial release Sony knows that, and plan on it to boost sale then.............
Do ya research people........I didnt do all of mine so some of this is off I know............I still know more than some of you............look at both sides of it..............
The format war will be won by Blu-Ray.
Total Sales of Blu-Ray > Total Sales of HD DVD's
675,000 > 650,000
February:
250,000 Blu-Rays sold > 125,000 HD DVDs
January was about the same.
HD DVD's were launched way before Blu-Ray and both numbers don't include 'Free or Included games' - only Sales.
Ultimately, these numbers are reflective of what movies people want to buy. Currently, Blu-Ray has more supporters and more No. 1 movies released in the movie theatres, which will most likely garner the most sales.
Setting aside my Sony Bias and simply stating facts:
Being an owner of a PS3 - I own more movies than I do games.
-Superman Returns
-Casino Royale
-The Departed
-Babel
-Lake House (Sister)
-The Devil Wears Prada (Sister)
-The Prestige
If even half of the PS3 owners out there are as enthusiastic as I am at watching movies, this would account for a lot of blu ray sales.
Sony Haters:
PS3 is loosing as a game console simply because it has about the same amount of game titles the Xbox 360 had when it launched, but now look at the 360 and it's games. There is a learning curve for developers and in this case - consumers and film productiion companies.
Did you all forget that microsoft has the biggest strong hold on the computor market all you guys must have forgotten what you type with!!! Unless you are a moron and own an apple!! Microsoft will only allow hd dvd compatibilties with its soft ware!! and what do all your pcs run on sony soft ware???? Hd isnt out of it yet and far from it I believe sony is in trouble come the end of the year!! 51 GB HD DVD disc rivals Blu-ray capacity
Further blurring the line of which format is technically superior, Toshiba has announced that it has successfully created a triple-layer HD DVD disc that holds 51 GB of data. It has begun the process of submitting it for regulatory approval.
Blu-ray Disc (BD) has been regarded as the winner in terms of capacity since the beginning of the next-generation format war. However, the 51 GB HD DVD would slightly overpower BD, which currently has a maximum capacity of 50 GB. Previously, HD DVDs were only available in 15 GB and 30 GB capacities.
Feasibility is a big question, though. It's unclear if the addition of a third layer on an HD DVD would significantly increase mass production costs or time.
HD DVD is struggling to capture more market share after a Nielsen report showed the BDs were outpacing it by two to one. One major advantage it touts is its combo format discs, which work in both HD DVD and regular DVD players. However, that drives up the cost and deters some consumers.
According to media reports, Toshiba is planning to launch the new format before the end of the year.
@Dantexfactorhall
um... are your retarded????
how can xbox 360 games affect blu-ray & hd-dvd sales when 360 games are dvd's???
how, also, can you talk about blu-ray & hd-dvd quality when they have the SAME 1080P quality... with sony blu-ray players having hdmi 1.3 which supports billions of colors???
PSN: bklynaraby
Well susuamazin obviosly you are retarded!!! I never said the games will effect BD sales I am getting to the point that as the software companies that decided to leave sonys side exclusively to join the xbox, ultimately the movie companies will leave bluray exclusively and support both formats and then give consumers the choice. Because this is what sony does not want! They want you to have to buy bd and bd players because if given the choice people would surely choose the equal quality format at a cheaper price everytime. The proof is with the xbox aproach to the attachment they dont force you to get the dvd drive they let you choose, not like sony. I mean hey Its my opinion but I get the feeling sony feels threatened by the sales of the 360 and they dont want microsoft to hit em hard like that again. So they bundle the ps3 with the bd player and force you to buy it just to get the next gen console and then figure hey, people will just get the bd cuz they already have it. Its good if you dont like to make choices. But I will admit if they would have released the same time as xbox I would have went ps3 and when I heard they delayed because of the bd player I was like...what??? Lame...they are just getting greedy...but hey maybe they saw the writing on the wall...they knocked off nintendo back in the day and now xbox is ready to knock them off. I know its probably off subject but hey, the fate of bluray is resting almost entirely on the shoulders of the ps3, so surely you can see how they are entertwined. But remember the hd can do alot with out the xbox 360 its at least affordable. The dvd attachment is just a tool to help promote the hd format, where as I see the ps3 as the main sales channel from bd and at just under two million consoles sold thats not too good.
Blu-ray will win simply because they have Apple... if Apple was on the HD-DVD side then I'd have no idea... but Apple people buy whatever Apple tells 'em to and they're not afraid of spending money... now, what stock do I invest in to make a buck off of Blu-ray winning?
"For instance, the new 3:1 sales figure being touted by the Blu-ray Disc Association in regards to Blu-ray to HD DVD sales is claimed by Wynendaele to be artificially inflated by free Blu-ray movie vouchers being redeemed by PlayStation 3 owners"
Ummm..didnt does he remember that the Microsoft HD-DVD for the XBOX 360 add on has King Kong in it??