Apple's not fighting back against Apple TV hacks
By Ryan Block 
posted April 5th 2007 3:15PM
posted April 5th 2007 3:15PM
We had a word with Apple yesterday about the Apple TV -- specifically about that supposed backdoor. We asked whether enthusiasts really are in fact having services and hacks shut down through surreptitious software updates and backdoors into the Apple TV, to which Apple let us know that is absolutely not the case. Although they didn't account for any issues these have been experiencing when upgrading their machines, Apple is certain that they didn't do any of that funny stuff that would make Sony's legal team cringe. Apple's stance, it claims, is more along the lines of: it's your box, do with it what you please -- but be mindful of voiding that warranty. Guess this is just the stuff you've got to deal with when tooling around with an STB -- your hacks aren't necessarily always going to stick and work, which is why they're hacks.
Yeah, let's all hate Apple because they're popular. Why don't you go design "funny" t-shirts for Hot Topic?
I thought that there would be no such existence of an Apple fanboy, but you have proven me wrong.
You sir, are an idiot.
When people thought Apple was hacking into their boxes, that was really just something like a cronjob that happened to clobber whatever hacks had been put on it. But hey, who needs Occam's razor?
I don't understand how it can be made any clearer: Apple is not breaking into your Apple TV. They already have your money, they really don't give a crap that you're using it to play xvid episodes of Battlestar Galactica.
I'm glad to hear that at least apple isn't stupid enough to think that people aren't going to hack the crap out of their products. It's very refreshing to see a company that will sit back and let people do as they please with a device they own (and have every right to hack in my humble opinion). Heck, apple will likely end up selling a bunch more of these rigs because of it, and if people are voiding their warranties, then they can charge them to fix them if they screw up their machines trying to hack it.
Apple will most likely get a lot of good ideas for different things to do with their machines and new features people want added (which will no doubt be in a future, more expensive revision of the apple tv).
Apple TV is more of an experiment than an end all solution, which is why all the Apple TV haters are wrong. Think of it like this:
Mac mini>AppleTV>??
Apple is doing this all Web 2.0--really 3.0-- style by letting consumers lead the way. In 10-15 years other companies will understand and adopt this philosophy.
UNLIKE sony.....
Maybe I'm feeling charitable. Or maybe I'm still high from yesterday's 8-core Mac Pro launch. But I wanna give Apple a big wet kiss right now.
Maybe I'm feeling charitable. Or maybe I'm still high from yesterday's 8-core Mac Pro launch. But I wanna give Apple a big wet kiss right now.
(http://www.apple-tv-converter.net)
@David: And maybe, in 10-15 years, everyone will know the difference between the greater than sign and the less than sign. Think of it like this- it's an alligator's mouth, and he wants to eat what's bigger/better ;)
this is really mature and at the same time cool thing to do. i liked how they said "it's your box, do with it what you please". being a 360Fan i wish other companies were also that cool......
I sort of agree, however:
I love XBMC. There is no equal. Period.
I HATE cheaters on Halo2.
If you can reconcile hacking vs cheating on a gaming console, then I'm definitely on your side.
I love Apple's stance on this and raised my respect for them a bit more.
However, companies like Sony who are trying to protect their products (i.e. PSP) against hacks face a slightly different game. Apple TV hacks increase functionality to let you play different vids, etc. I would venture to say most people hack their PSP's to play pirated games, and that's the difference. Pirated games directly affect Sony's product as they have a hand in creating the games. Apple TV just plays vids, and pirated vids is out of Apple's scope. That's the MPAA's arena so they're the ones affected.
Though I wish Sony would be more open to PSP hacks and the homebrew community, it's just a fact that some, if not a majority, hack their PSP to play pirated games and not much else.
@WhoDatNinja
While there are a lot of people pirating games on the PSP, there are also a lot of people pirating PS1 games that they already own for the PS1. There's also people who simply want to move their games from UMD to memory sticks for less hassle and more battery life. If Sony put more energy into improving the firmware and providing an official home-brew service instead of just one-upping the hackers, then you would probably see less enthusiasm to hack the PSP.
That response from Apple may be good, but Engadget readers are dying to know ... is it "good enough"?
i see what you mean andy, wsh there was a way to block cheaters and do cool stuff like XBMC still.......
I'm not sure I trust Apple. If that's the case, why do they continue to thwart the iPod Linux hackers?
Well, XNA *would* be a way to do exactly what WTF wanted (allow XBMC while breaking Halo cheaters), except that MS had to effin' kneecap the framework to protect the "professional" studios. Seriously, no network support? Why on God's green earth would you take out one of most "next-gen" features on your "next-gen" console? And charge us a hundred bucks a year for the privilege?
But about Apple: yes, the reason they're OK with "hacks" is that they have little to no stake in preventing a DRM workaround. Sony et al have to keep their consoles from getting hacked because game licenses make all the money (they sell the hardware at a _loss_); Apple must be making at least a little money off each ATV they sell, plus if you break DRM, it's likely to be by transcoding the DRM'd file into one that is unprotected, which the ATV can already play.
and maybe (person) will realise that what David posted was correct, and that if the > character was being used to show succession, it was correct (mac mini, then apple tv), and if it was being used to show greater than/less than, it was also correct, as the apple tv is clearly not as good hardware wise as the mac mini.
Our math teacher [when i was in school] compared it to Pac Man eating the bigger value.
"why do they continue to thwart the iPod Linux hackers?"
There have been no thwarting of Linux adaptors. New updates might affect old hacks. But Apple has not pushed any secret updates on any iPod hackers.
You have to understand though, Apple TV is a tad different than gaming consoles. If MS took the approach of "it's your 360, do as you please", it would have some serious problems on its hands...they sell these consoles at a loss, expecting you to buy games later on. If people started buying these and hacking them to play pirated versions of games, or even to use the console solely as a media center pc, MS would be facing major losses. Apple has a completely different situation--the apple TV as a computer threatens none of its other products, and its not expecting to make any future profit of the consumer.
Good to hear. I've got to say this is the exact attitude that I expected, though. Apple is a hardware company, if hacking the Apple TV moves more units, they aren't going to complain. The only way I could see it being a problem is if it hurt Mac Mini sales, but I don't think anybody is worried about that happening.
Apple even has a section on their website devoted to Mac Mini hacks/mods (car installations, things like that). There's a little warning about how it voids the warranty and such (don't remember specifically what mods were performed), but the message that they encourage this kind of behavior was clear. As I said before, if it helps them sell more hardware, they're not going to say no.
I agree that this is both a mature and cool thing to do. And although I'm no fan of the iPod and I probably won't ever buy an Apple TV, I hope that Apple TV is wildly successful for Apple because of their forward thinking approach.
Contrary to what many Xbox fanboys believe, there are other reasons to want the 360 more open than "cheating at Halo". It's about expanding the non-gaming features of the 360.
I really enjoy using my 360, but gaming consists of maybe 1/3 of the total time I use the 360. But hell will freeze over before Microsoft loosens its grip on the 360 because they see the 360 as simply a point-of-sales terminal for Microsoft controlled sales.
"an STB"
An Set Top Box?
God, that grammar makes me cringe, and I'm not usually one to pick faults.
@Nick
If you think about it, the "S" in STB is pronounced like "ess", which would make sense with an "an", but Set is pronounced differently and so uses an "a". So it's not bad grammar at all.
"...to which Apple let us know that is absolutely not the case"
That has to be the most horribly written sentence that has ever come across my computer screen. Way to go, Ryan! You topped even the notorious Brian White with this one.
As the title says it, apple is not fighting back. if you think they are, go to your local apple store (for me thats in lake grove NY) and kindly ask any and all of the employees there. They will tell you that hackers have been able to modify the box to run whatever, and so far Apple will not be doing anything to combat this.
Apple sells a box for a profit. You hack it, void the warranty, they're still making money. They may not be making as much if you're not using it with iTunes, but they still have your $$$ and that's what counts. I imagine less people would buy it if Apple forced it to work with purchased iTunes content, so there is a tradeoff.
While getting informed about openwrt for my Linksys router, I ran into this quote:
"While Linksys does not support any of the alternate firmware available for the NSLU2, we are always delighted to see a product gain such widespread acceptance.
Like the similar community that emerged to enhance the WRT54G before it, the creativity and ingenuity of Linksys customers inspires us to continually improve our products."
-- Mike Wagner, Director of Marketing, Linksys.
It's a good view from Apple and Linksys: We'll try to make it as good as we think possible, if you want more put it on yourself.
I'll be using mine for iTunes stuff as well as extra stuff, I did buy it for having my iTunes content on my TV, but I'm not going to pass up added functionality when I have a chance to have it ;)
not sure why this "do what you want" attitude is any surprise. Apple has always championed the art of hacking their equipment, the entire company was based on a "hack" of the phone system if you know your history.
and keep in mind, opening ANY apple product DOES NOT void your warranty. it's ONLY if you BREAK it does the voided warranty go into effect. I had to correct a Genius Bar guy the other day on this, so sad :)
hacks are coming and full force with the AppleTV, you can check them out here:
http://www.appletvhacks.net/
Of course, should anything go wrong they'll just claim it was your hack that broke it.
Apple doesn't need to create a back door. The more hacks there is the more people want to buy it, the more they sell...
Thanks
http://www.appletvbbs.com