iPods blocked from synching with Linux
By Conrad Quilty-Harper 
posted Sep 15th 2007 8:15PM
posted Sep 15th 2007 8:15PM
According to the blog iPodminusiTunes, Apple has blocked the new iPods from synching with third party applications (i.e. anything that isn't iTunes). The most significantly affected userbase in all this is the Linux community, who've been able to upload songs to their older iPods using free software such as gtkpod and Amarok for a while now. The tweak to the new iPod database files doesn't appear to be incidental either, with a number being added to the front of the database file causing the iPod to be exclusively tied to a single copy of iTunes. Fortunately, the problem isn't beyond a little bit of reverse engineering, so Apple's rather pointless meddling could be reversed given time.[Via BoingBoing]
woah... that aint cool
I second that, the my way or the high way attitude can be side stepped via hacks, but it just annoys me.
and honestly, if I'm annoyed, then mommas gonna hack even more.
stevo, you don't want to declare war on the open source community. you're in over your head kiddo.
I don't use Linux but this ain't cool, why would you lower your user base, the iPod really only took off when a windows version of iTunes came about, Linux users are part of the user base too!
this is not about blocking linux. this is about blocking 3rd party clients. remember the patent apple filed about disabling the ipod from charging when connected to a computer? thats not going to work with 3rd party clients. this is about responding to the calls for doing something about ipod theft.
If Steve Jobs & Apple did it, they obviously did it for a good reason (does anyone know one?) Apple knows what's good for everyone...
I really hope that was a joke.
Check the batteries in your sarcasm detector.
You guys apparently aren't real Apple fans.
Correction: They aren't real apple fanboys.
They should just release a version of iTunes for Linux. My roommate uses Ubuntu and he agrees iTunes is awesome at organizing music.
The problem is implementing DRM within an open-source OS like Linux. Apple doesn't want to take the risk that hackers will be able to leverage that to a good look inside iTunes and thereby figure out how to break Apple's DRM or learn other secrets about iTunes.
Daryl: What? You can see as far into binaries with Linux as you can with Windows.. besides, the DRM was already broken on Windows.
Allow me to share with you what iTunes is good at:
On the positive side: organizing your music and videos on your computer, iPod, and getting nice album covers.
On the negative side: slowing down your system and running little applications in the background even when iTunes is closed and you don't have any iPod-type connected, messing with your music library and sometimes erasing some of your content without any notification, and lot of other horrible things.
I enjoy using my iPods, but never use iTunes for other than adding content into my library and/or updating my iPods. That's it. Other than that, I stay away from iTunes and make sure that there aren't any "services" running in the background for no reason at all.
And unfortunately, Apple is not alone here. Yahoo Music's player is just as bad. They're cpu hogs and like to run in the background. Why??? Don't tell me to expedite the loading process. Please. I don't mind giving an application the extra time to get started. But, when I have you closed, you better be "closed."
This doesn't just affect Linux, this affects ALL 3rd party programs and anyone that doesn't want to use the invasive iTunes (mediamonkey, foobar, winamp etc.) I took off iTunes way back when after it screwed up my system and never looked back.
Jobs wants you to drop your linux box and buy a mac. That way you get to pay for what you've been getting for free all this time.
He's a nice roommate - he knows better than to tell you the truth. Me on the other hand....
Seriously iTunes sucks as a digital media organizer - maybe tops at selling music but not much else.
@ Bruckwine: My room mate uses both linux and windows (coz engineering college students need apps which will never be able on linux). He knows what he is talking abt.
Also, i have used linux, mac and windows OS. There are cool things about all of them and i'll never solely rely on one. So don't think i m a apple/windows fanboy. despite the fact tht iTunes is resource intensive, its really cool.
Well, my experience with iTunes couldn't be better. In fact, my library was totally screwed up by WMP, Winamp and similar programs; with iTunes, everything runs smooth and I never had any problems with files suddenly disappearing or anything like that. And I know a lot of people that actually feel the same way - and I'm not talking about fanboys here!
I'd disagree with that, it's terrible at organizing music! You need to get it all set up properly, it just doesn't seem to be that clever at working that stuff out.... yet. I'm completely hooked on iTunes now though, I love the gapless track playing (even with mp3s), the high res album artwork, and of course, cover flow! It's a brilliant piece of work, and it's really reached quite a mature stage now. Can't wait to see what they come up with next!
Uh, I don't know what WMP you've been using, but the way WMP works is that it goes through your "My Music" folder looking for files it can read, then groups together them all based on ID3 tags... rather like iTunes does. WMP however also allows for a lot of other nice organizing things that iTunes doesn't. That said, I still use iTunes despite its penchant for erasing album art, breaking up albums, and deleting files, if only because I've used it for a year and a half now
Jobs, the next Gates
Care to explain that statement?
Steve Jobs, according to the fr0mundacheese, is the next Bill Gates. He's the newest bully in town; the next tyrant.
As for my opinion, I always thought Steve Jobs was that way. Contrary to popular belief, Steve doesn't care if you have a tattoo of his face on your butt.
jobs is more of a weiner tho. he had to wait for bill to get ready to retire to be an asshole.
Boy, spin is everything.
There was never any official support for iPods/iTunes on Linux. Now that Apple has changed to a hashed database format for iTunes people are complaining about not being able to use the players with an OS that was never officially supported. It's more work for the F/OSS community, but really, why is anyone surprised that a vendor with a proprietary file format has opted to change that format without notice? We don't know why they made that change and we might never know why. But to say that Apple is suddenly locking out Linux users is a misrepresentation of the facts. The iPod was never supported on Linux to begin with.
Can you think of any reason why Apple would hash the database file other than to make it a pain in the ass for third parties to update the device? I sure can't.
@Dave:
Speed/Performance? Future software enhancements to be disclosed at a later date?
Seriously, who cares? I'm a UNIX "graybeard" from way back (over 20 years experience) and what bugs me about the F/OSS community is this strange notion they all seem to have that they're entitled to anything and everything they demand from every company in business. Well, they aren't. iTunes and iPods are Apple products. Apple is entitled to do whatever they want with them, at their discretion. Done deal. Worrying about it and imagining grand conspiracies behind every action is just a waste of time...life's too short.
next step: Forcing iPods to only sync with a Mac.
Thats how they use to and still should be.
yeah right! and instantly loose about 80% of market share... steve give green light to wintel itunes because the 80% of his potential buyers happens to use Windows and a PC ... the number 1 reason of the ipod popularity is that it runs on windows.
(PD: I own to macs, one PC, and my iphone is my 5th ipod... been the first a G1 mechanical whell ipod)
Does the whole linking iPods to a specific copy of iTunes include manually managing songs?
No offence to Apple, but what's the point of making the iPod work with only one copy of iTunes?
It seems rather odd to me, as if they are trying to fix music piracy, but I doubt that it's a useful measuer.
Apple has always been about controlling the end user's experience, because the end user can't be trusted to choose their own stuff, like OS, hardware or software. Make it apple, or go home, that's the steve jobs way.
What I said earlier about that new iPod?
I take it back.
From my comment on TUAW...
I'm going to get flamed for this but.. get over it! Don't use some unsupported OS with your iPod then complain that it doesn't work! Apple can do what they want, and you shouldn't buy an iPod product if it won't work with your computer!
It worked with their computer when the bought it. How were they supposed to know apple would pull a stunt like this? Maybe now people will buy one of the far superior players that other companies make.
It wasn't officially supported in the first place. They should haven't have boughten it and expected it to work. Period.
There is a slight difference between using something unsupported and making something deliberatly prevent other methods
"There is a slight difference between using something unsupported and making something deliberately prevent other methods"
So, with no proof whatsoever, you are saying that Apple only did this to block it from syncing. Alright then...
if we're going to play THAT game lets put it this way.
What proof do you have that they DIDNT do it on purpose?
Well there is no proof either way.
hehe lawl... "boughten" ^.^ how can you use that "word" and expect any measure of respect?
hehe boughten
This is exactly why there's system requirements printed in small text on the box.
That's like buying the newest version of some software and expecting it to work because the previous versions did. Really irresponsible of these "freetards"
> Don't use some unsupported OS with your iPod then complain
> that it doesn't work! Apple can do what they want, and you
> shouldn't buy an iPod product if it won't work with your
> computer!
It's true that Apple can decide to screw you at any time, and to control your hardware and software.
And this story on engadget is a one more reminder of the ways of proprietary companies - not complaining.
I concur, noone should buy a product from Apple or any other proprieary vendor.
Hmm, couldn't you just run iTunes under WiNE? (I have no experience at that what so ever just a thought)
yes it is possible, although possibly not with newer versions. i ran itunes 6 under wine to use with my airport express...worked like a charm. my ipod worked too. i don't recall trying itunes 7 but it barely runs on supported operating systems...let alone linux.
I think part of the reason for the change may have to do with transferring songs purchased on the Wi-Fi music store back over to the computer, so there may be a legitimate reason. Then again, by that logic the change should only affect the touch, not the classic/nano.
so, after an update, unsupported software doesn't work anymore?
what's everyone up in arms about? Apple doesn't support the use of iPods or iTunes on linux, for whatever reason.
They can do whatever the hell they like with their software. If you're using software that's unsupported, get the devs of that software to fix it. It's not apple's problem, and frankly they've done absolutely nothing wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't just affecting Linux users. Programs such as ephPod and SharePod won't work now, and we'll go back to being unable to take music from a friend's iPod or add new music onto it with a simple program.
This is effectively adding DRM into the iPod and locking users into using a program that, though good at organizing music, is restrictive and bloated.
Well to be honest you should be using iTunes is the first place! That's what it says on the box: "Requires iTuies 7.4".
So why the hell are you using another program!?!
iTunes is perfectly capable of managing your music library and, in fact, does it better than any third-party software.
Aside from performing better, iTunes also actually has a better user interface!
So quit your whining!!
The doesn't make it tougher to READ the database, just write it.
So you can still take music from other iPods with ease, you just can't add it to your own without using iTunes.
Jesus, stop crying. Its not as if you bought an iPod on the basis there was linux support. Besides, the Wine GIT got patches to run iTunes 7 this week.
Actually, I was considering an iPod, but my old computer can't handle wine and it doesn't have a Windows installation. My only choice now is an iPod Touch (wi-fi iTunes)
Or a competing media player.
I'm as much an Apple fanboi as anyone, but if you don't like the products, tell them with your dollars.
If you want an iPod, the system requirements are on the box.
Fantastic! That's *half* of all the stories on the homepage about Apple, complete with a dig at Palm (for a product no one at the site's actually even used yet!) thrown in for good measure.
Another day at the office for Engadget!
Given that Macs are Unix based you would of thought that creating a version of iTunes would of been easier than creating for one for Windows.
Another good reason why I went for a Creative Zen V Plus and not an iPod. I can just plug my V Plus into any Xp or Vista machine and have it instantly recognized and one the drivers are installed I can either sync using WMP or just drag and drop my music onto it.
First - yeah, this sucks. Others have made the point though about it not being supported from the get go - you're using linux, this is part of that package. It's the exact same as Mac users not getting video games, etc. You're using x software, that has strings. Being able to hack something into working is dandy, but that certainly doesn't create obligation. In conclusion, quit your whining. You're so damn l33t, find a solution.
Secondly, this does really suck. Apple has really been acting... Microsofty lately, and it is getting old.
That being said... I can't believe I've not heard anyone mention this yet... Don't you think there's a good chance the record companies have something to do with this? Stricter controls on what can and cannot go on an ipod, isn't this exactly what some of them were asking for?
Gotta remember... iPod is not just "Apple" it's an ecosystem. I'm not saying Apple isn't capable of this kind of asshattery on its own, just that it can be more complicated than that.
Sure dude, I agree that maybe the record companies have something to do with that, but then why the hell doesn't Apple write a damn iTunes version for Linux? Linux people's money are just as good as anyone else's.
I think it has more to do with the Microsoftish behavior you were mentioning, and this indeed is really getting old and it bothers me.
Yeah, and see the drop in iPod sales by two thirds
@trumpton - oh please, Apple is the news right now. When something else shiny comes along, it'll be that.
As for Palm... feh. They used a business model of "let's do the same thing for ten years and see if anyone notices" and it bit them in the butt when everyone else decided there was a market for innovation. When Palm actually shows up with something new and exciting, then they won't get digged and perhaps everyone will be complaining about all the great palm coverage.
To be honest, I'd be complaining if Palm were getting equally over-the-top coverage for such relatively minor stories day after day after day, but there you go.
I guess I shouldn't have posted in this thread anyway because - and I apologise for this - I'm adding nothing relevent to this story, but the whole Apple/Engadget love-in seems to be just getting silly here now.
Sorry folks.
I'd consider that an insult to Bill. I actually think Jobs is a wanker.
You can Run iTunes with new Wine 0.9.45:
What's new in this release:
* Many improvements to the crypto dlls (should make iTunes work).
* The usual assortment of Direct3D improvements.
* A number of fixes to sound support.
* Many more WordPad features.
* Lots of bug fixes.
Yeah, but what if you don't want to run iTunes? I don't even have an iPod (I don't believe they are the best mp3 players out there, but I've been told I'm wrong because so many people use them. And most of the population thought the Earth was flat at one point, but whatever), but it's still annoying to have to hack away to get simple things working.
Apple doesn't support Linux (or running other syncing software on a Mac/Windows). That's fine and dandy. However, now they are PREVENTING the use of iPods with Linux. Before they weren't providing support for it so others had to develop their own solutions. Now they're basically saying you can't own an iPod if you use Linux period.
I guess I'm just sick and tired of the OpenSource community having to work 10 times as hard to get half as far just because companies are afraid of the ramifications of an open source world. Apple and Microsoft have nice deals with the music companies which infringe on the consumers. Linux gets screwed over because it isn't as corrupt as its competitors.
What a world. (I know -- rank this down and say "Quit your bitching")
pay for a closed system?
pay the price for your loyalty.
Don't ask me why Linux users and others haven't discovered native Mass Storage drag-n-drop models totally unrestricted by Apple and their RIAA buddies.
Why am I not surprised. These iFanboys need to wake up and smell the BS!
yes, lets become Walt Mossberg and complain that linux sucks because it doesnt sync to iPods
"Walt argued that the... trouble connecting iPods ... [is a problem] that most people will find intolerable in the open-source OS"
haha now i can laugh even more at that douche
http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/14/walt-mossberg-gives-ubuntu-the-cold-shoulder/
The real question is when will Apple release a version of iTunes that I can run on my Commodore 64!? Screw Apple. I bet they locked out C64 users on purpose. They should tailor their products to suit whatever OS I want to use!
Screw that. I am still trying to gather enough Apple IIgs users to file a class-action lawsuit against Apple for not allowing my iPhone to work with my computer.
This is a perfect example antitrust if I've ever seen one. It makes the whole windows/IE case look like a joke by comparison. Their luck will run out if they keep pushing like this.
I've been using Juice Receiver (formerly iPodder) to download podcast for about 2-1/2 years. I've always been able to have my podcast files automatically exported to a playlist in iTunes. After an iTunes update last week Juice became crippled, and I was forced to use iTunes to catch all of my podcast (about 35 shows). iTunes released another update (v7.4.1.2) yesterday but my Juice pod-catcher is still bricked! I love my iPod, and I use iTunes for all of my Mp3 playback on my desktop PC and laptop, but I don't like having one of the most useful features yanked away without notice. I work 10hr shifts at my job and have relied on podcast for 90% of my personal entertainment over the years. I had my podcast downloading/fetching set up just the way I liked it, and now it's gone. I know that iTunes is free, and Apple has the right to do with it as they please, but what harm was there in continuing to allow 3rd party application to setup a playlist in iTunes?
Uhm, did you write to the open-source developers of Juice Receiver and see when they will update the program to work with the new iTunes? They do have a support wiki as well.
Guys, what's with the hate against Derek ??? What he's saying is totally reasonable.
@ David Clark
You are absolutely right, but no need to be insulting ("freetards"). So go eat d1ck.
Anyway I'm sure Linux developers aren't that pissed abt it all. They'll just write a work around in -oh I don't know- 4 days. Or install Rockbox on their pods.
Disclamer: I use Linux.
One more reason not to buy a iPoop. I'll stick with sansa.
I love Apple and I think this is bullshit. I wish more Apple fans knew when to call BS. You can love a company without pretending everything they do is building an ark to a new world.
What percentage of the OS market is represented by Linux? Is it more than the 3 percent for Macs?
Macs are up to 5%. Yah its nit picking but...*shrugs*
Geez! When will Apple STOP this torrent of horrible decisions? I just keep getting more and more disappointed.
Apple, I really don't want you to join the list of companies I really don't like. First your proprietary shenanigans, then your marketing campaign, then your lack of functionality with the iPhone and new iPods, and now you're locking people who obviously WANT to use your products out of doing so. WHAT THE HELL!?
Great just when I was going to pickup the new iPod Touch...damn I sure hope it works in my Ubuntu loaded laptop.
Did they do this solely to bulster the anti-trust claims filed against them?
Considering that Linux users consist of less then 5% of the market and you can load any music you want via iTunes on Windows.....Ummm no.
Its a bunch of winey bastards who are pissed that The Jobs took away their customized bottle and gave then a specific one.
Again don't like it, don't buy it. Problem meet solution, solution meet problem.
Linux, yes. But this also locks out winamp, mediamonkey and every other non-itunes program.
*shrugs* If you are using Linux you are probably not using DRM so the files can be transfered, and if you are using Linux you aren't using iTunes. If you are getting an iPod that has this new protection on it it means you are in the market for an MP3 player. Solution: Don't buy the damn thing and go with another product.
Gah. Its like some baby bitching about wanting the blue pacifier instead of the red. Its a fucking pacifier. Suck on it and be happy. And if you really do need that blue one go buy a Mac or run Windows. There are solutions but nooo. Damn babies need to throw a temper tantrum. MY WAY! MY WAY! WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Get bent.
It may be worse than it appears. The new iPods have different hardware and an encrypted firmware. Which means iPodLinux and Rockbox don't work and may never work.
One of the good things about the iPod is that it's widely supported as the market leader. The question shouldn't be "Why did Apple change the database format and break existing reverse engineered sync utilities?" it should be "Why isn't there a documented way to sync and copy tracks for 3rd parties?" It's in Apple's interest to have lots of 3rd party support. Oh, right. The iPod, iTunes, iTMS family links are actually about lock in.
This doesn't really have anything to do with Linux except that there's no iTunes for Linux. It's really about Ephpod, Winamp, Sharepod and all the other iTunes alternatives.
Just Say No To DRM.
Well ther goes any interest at all I had in the new ipods, the the touch looked kinda nifty. Oh well i guess I'm forced to buy one a of better palyers that iriver/creative/sandisk/ archos make.
Sorry - this is BS
The database format changed slightly for use on the new iPods so the version number of the database changed.
This isn't Apple trying to screw Linux or event 3rd party apps - its Apple just advancing its product. If your writing apps that read the database, you've just got to keep up.
simple use wine itunes 6 can run in wine
Some of you people feel that Apple products are supposed to support everything under the sun. Hardly. Many Apple products don't even support older Mac systems. The iPod Touch only syncs with a recent version of 10.4.x Tiger. Is it a conspiracy to sell more Macs or force everyone to upgrade to Tiger, I don't know. I do know that if there are Mac G3 users out there, they're out of luck.
In your ideal world, everything would be compatible with each other. You could still connect your latest PMP with serial ports and a ten-year old OS. Everything should remain legacy. Backwards compatibility is all that matters. Nothing would evolve.
I doubt if Apple is building products for people to hack. Most users don't have those skills. Support would be rather difficult, if not impossible. I'll bet the majority of users just use computers that are Macs or Windows and sync using iTunes. It makes it much simpler. iTunes may be far from perfect, but what product is perfect. (Does everything that everyone wishes it could do.)
You say you bought a product, and because you own it, you should be able to override everything. That's nice in theory for those that truly know what they're doing, but not always the best in practice for those that don't.
So now, apparently more Creative Zens will be sold, because they're fully open to tinkering. Well, that's a good thing for Creative and users that have a desire to tinker. At least there is a choice. Creative has been around long enough to have captured 70% market share, but it didn't happen. Why? I don't know. Maybe their products weren't that easy to use. I don't necessarily believe that the best product always sells the most, but ease of use really does make a big difference for the average user.
Apple is a company that can do whatever it wants to keep their products secure in their fashion. The iPod and iTunes are not perfect. But they are decent. They work to 90% of what I expect and for me that's good enough.
I can afford to buy a Touch, but it doesn't fit my needs. It doesn't have enough storage. Why should I curse Apple? They're not just building them for me. I can choose to wait until they have more storage or buy another product that does. Should I curse Creative because their players don't work with iTunes? I guess that's Apple's fault too. Damn DRM.
Why don't all manufacturers use the exact same parts for stoves, refrigerators and the myriad of appliances. They pretty much work the same way. It sure would make it easier for repairs and lower manufacturing costs. No, they don't in order to lock in their parts and keep their brand unique. Most companies do things this way so what makes Apple any better or worse. Brand loyalty is very important to companies in order to succeed.
Some of you people probably want U.S. currency to be open source. Remove the metal strips, watermarks and classified cotton fiber formula from bills to make them easier to copy. Good for you, but bad for the economy as a whole.
If a product doesn't suit you, don't buy it and move on. Just because some feature is changed don't think you understand all the reasons behind it. If you're that smart, then you'd better start your own company and see if you can keep every frickin' user satisfied. You'd go out of business in a month.
I'll bet most of you can afford an iPod and a Creative Zen, so what's the problem? Buy both.
Some of you guys really suck, I use linux and I should be able to use my iPod with it, I like iTunes, and I would like it on linux, but I don't mind that it isn't on linux. However, you saying I shouldn't buy something that doesn't offically work with linux is stupid, at that point, my computer, keyboard, screen, iPod, speakers, Wi-Fi, PSP, protected DVDs, ect, ect. wouldn't work. I strongly believe that any comapny can't force you to use what they want you to use. Now I am waiting for my iPod to work with linux again and I guess in the meantime I will be dual booting again :(.
*sigh* Just another reason for me not to like Apple. The list just keeps getting bigger.
OSX wouldn't be around if it wasn't for open source. This move probably blocked all of the BSD users as well.
I think it's ironic that the Apple users have been complaining about "why hardware doesn't work with my OS" for years. Now Apple does the exact same thing as the "dark side" when they have control.
oh good
now get a real computer and stop wasting time looking for drivers and emulators
First no Java on iPhone, now this...what can I say...not cool!
Not sure I really understand what all the hub-bub is all about... This isn't really an OS issue - it's more of an issue with any program other than iTunes that users utilize to transfer music to/from their iPods. After all, Linux users aren't the only one's that may not use iTunes - I'm a Windows user and I despise iTunes and therefore I use Anapod Explorer by Red Chair Software. I don't need an application to manage my music - I do that well enough by myself. I don't need a program to play music, I've got plenty of them...and, I don't need exclusive access to the ITMS - I have plenty of my own CD's ripped to my computer. So, why do I need iTunes?
This is about Apple supporting interaction between iTunes (Apple product) and iPods (Apple product). Oh - wait, there was a change made? Great! Bring on the functionality. I don't look to Apple to support my method of transferring music, I don't look to Apple to support Windows, but, I will look to Apple to support my iPod - nothing more.
So - Enjoy your iPods. If you use it, enjoy your iTunes. If you don't use it, then ask the guys that developed your music-transfer method to, once again, reverse engineer the iPod and build in support for it by DONATING to the cause - support the efforts of the open source community, buy the software, do what you can to be PRODUCTIVE instead of bitching about that silver spoon that was taken out of your mouth!