A note to both Apple and iPhone customers on the v1.1.1 update
By Ryan Block 
posted Oct 1st 2007 12:04PM
posted Oct 1st 2007 12:04PM
We're in a unique position here at Engadget, serving the technology community, while simultaneously interacting with and trying to make sense of the moves of the companies our readership patronizes. Apple's latest iPhone firmware, as you've probably heard, locks out third party applications, consequently preventing owners from using their device on networks other than AT&T -- so it's easy to see why this is being viewed as a hostile act, with thousands ready to storm the Cupertino castle in order to get their hacked iPhones back the pre-v1.1.1 status quo. Make no mistake about it, whether you care about the iPhone or not, this 150MB software update is uniquely controversial and causing a rift -- if not an outright adversarial relationship -- between Apple and untold thousands of its core customers, who've used Engadget comments, blogs, and any other sounding board at their disposal. So, may we have a word with both parties? Now, we're not going to assume we could possibly be the arbiter of a discussion so complex as this, but we think there a few things both parties should remember. Let's start with the iPhone users. Note: to be clear on nomenclature, when we say a device is "bricked", we mean it's completely unusable, not just that it's been re-locked to AT&T, or had 3rd party app support disabled, ok?
iPhone users,
We know you're incensed. You paid a premium price for a powerful phone with a lot of untapped potential, and only a few weeks after the third party iPhone community got to work on a slew of surprisingly well made apps -- including the holy grail of SIM unlock software (both free and paid) -- Cupertino drops the hammer and shuts it all off in the blink of an eye, in some cases even resulting in the bricking of your device. But before you grab a torch and a pitchfork, there are a few things you should know.
Apple's first mistake in this mess was the ominous sounding announcement they released last week, a few days ahead of the update. Here's the clip from the release:
"Apple has discovered that many of the unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage to the iPhone's software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future Apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed. ... Apple strongly discourages users from installing unauthorized unlocking programs on their iPhones. Users who make unauthorized modifications to the software on their iPhone violate their iPhone software license agreement and void their warranty. The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty."
Apple's intentions here are perfectly clear and normal -- almost any electronics company out there will tell you that their customers are discouraged from hacking their devices, as it invariably voids the warranty and might be liable to cause issues in the future. And here's why this announcement was a mistake: Apple conflated the issues of SIM unlocking and/or adding 3rd party software with the anticipation of bricked devices. Basically, Apple sought to preemptively blame the 3rd party iPhone software community for any devices that their software update might brick. In the end, stating that the application of v1.1.1 to hacked phones "will likely result in ... permanently [inoperability]" ultimately makes Apple look like they're targeting thousands of iPhone modders -- which is why this press release is biting them in the ass.
There are a lot of Apple customers out there who have, indeed, had their devices bricked by v1.1.1. We can't say for sure how many, but we do know that blog authors to New York Times writers like Saul Hansell and Katie Hafner have leveled the pointing finger at Apple for targeting those adding software, in no small part due to the press release above. Apple's relationship with its customers is souring because, at the outset, many are starting to believe that the v1.1.1 is nefariously bricking hacked or modded devices; that Apple is somehow hell bent on punishing iPhone users who don't want to use the device Steve's way.
Unfortunately, we suspect the truth isn't quite such a juicy story for those looking to lay blame. We've seen just as many reports of legitimate, "factory fresh" users getting bricked iPhones as those who've just added apps, SIM unlocked their devices, or done both. In fact, besides a lot of hearsay and anger from the tech community, we've seen absolutely nothing which indicates to us that Apple is targeting users who've hacked their phones and is bricking them on update. In an informal and totally unscientific poll here on Engadget, the number of iPhone users who had never hacked their device but wound up bricked was very similar to the number of users who did hack and brick their device -- and that's even with polls showing far more voting users hacked their phones than not.
Without any correlation in bricking between hacked and unhacked iPhones, it's easy to imagine the v1.1.1 update went out without proper QA testing, and is bricking a certain number of phones indiscriminately. For further detail, we asked iPhone hacker extraordinaire Erica Sadun, of our sister blog TUAW, to weigh in. She said iPhones upgrading to v1.1.1 appear to have a completely "random distribution of bricks", implying the far simpler and likelier explanation is that the update was rushed to meet its release deadline. We know Apple promised the update would be out by September's end, and considering how much iPhone software was changed with this update, it stands to reason that Apple worked until the 11th hour just trying to finish up and push it out the door -- not testing it exhaustively for weeks before shipping to consumers.
So before you pick up any real bricks for hurling through Apple windows in a moment of frustration, consider the possibility that some potentially poor choices decisions on Apple's probably may have led to bricked devices, and the appearance might be that Cupertino is out to get you for hacking your phone. We sincerely doubt it's anything that nefarious. But totally locking down the iPhone doesn't exactly whet our whistle, either, so don't worry, we've still got an earful for Apple, too.
Ok, Apple.
Look, you've so seriously backed yourself into a corner on this one. We know you think you can't really be taking away what you never actually gave us. That we were all living on borrowed bits, so to speak, so tough luck when an update breaks something you didn't authorize -- and to a certain extent that's actually a fair stance to take. But the reality of the matter is that the consumer electronics market has changed, and consumer expectations don't just match what's on the spec sheet. We know that you've been extremely clear about what the iPhone does and doesn't do since day one, and we stand by our initial iPhone review -- we reviewed the iPhone as the device it was on the day of launch, not the device it might one day be. But we still think clamping down the iPhone is really bad news for consumers.
The first mistake that was made leading up to this whole debacle was enticing the hacker community to develop for the iPhone. Let's be fair, that's exactly what happened, you can't play innocent here. At Macworld Steve got up on stage and talked about how advanced the iPhone is running a "sophisticated" operating system like OS X, enabling the development of "REAL desktop-class applications", and "not the crippled stuff you find on most phones", only to demand the development community sandbox its functionality in mobile Safari. That's not dangling a carrot in front of the mule, that's just tempting fate.
The second mistake was loosing the iPhone in such a way that it was so easily broken into. We don't mean to trivialize the Apple's work in getting the iPhone out the door on time, or the open source community's work that went into gaining access to the iPhone and making it ripe for 3rd party development, but it was only a matter of days before iPhone hackers got root access to the device. At its core, jailbreaking an iPhone is just a matter of editing a small number of Unix files, which opens up the rest of the phone -- that's like complaining your encryption sucks when you're using ROT13. If you were so against users developing for the iPhone, you should have taken the precautions you took with the iPod touch (which is encrypted to all get out) when initially releasing the iPhone. But now you've convinced buyers of the iPhone's power to run "desktop-class applications" and then practically left the door open. This isn't a fun while it lasted kind of situation, this became the status quo. With AppTapp, 3rd party apps became so easy to install on the iPhone it was practically an undocumented feature.
The third mistake was putting out that press release, which could be construed as being intended to preemptively shift the blame of iPhone brickings to 3rd party iPhone software. There's simply no correlation between iPhone modding and bricking with v1.1.1. So far as we can tell, this fairly major iPhone update just wasn't properly tested, and it's bricking iPhones randomly and indiscriminately, killing just as many hacked devices as unhacked devices. To us this smacks a lot of the FUD we heard from Steve earlier this year, when he said, "You don't want your phone to be an open platform. ... [AT&T] doesn't want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up." There's obviously been no shortage of software-adding iPhone users, and yet the wireless company having trouble with uptime these days is RIM.
There has never been a question of whether you have the right to re-lock the iPhone -- that's more or less indisputable. We may own the hardware, but you own the IP, and while you can't really force us to upgrade, the free market says you can upgrade in countless ways you see fit. But with the damage done, for many users the iPhone lockdown has become a question of motive. We may never learn the true reasons why, but it seems only fair to pontificate, especially given Steve's comment in London about the iPhone becoming a cat and mouse game: "[Is Apple] the cat or mouse?"
Perhaps this is cause and effect of the SIM unlock solutions. Perhaps someone in accounting ran the numbers and figured out that Apple, which has unprecedented revenue sharing deals with its wireless carriers, will lose more money from people unlocking iPhones (which requires some level of 3rd party openness to accomplish) than it would from just selling the things outright -- therefore, in order to lock out the SIM unlock software, the only solution was to lock out ALL software. Or perhaps you're simply contractually obligated to prevent iPhone unlocks from occurring at all costs. (Knowing how much power Apple wields, though, it's hard to believe Steve wrote a blank check to ensure iPhones stay locked at all costs, including customer satisfaction.)
Or maybe it's because you intend to launch an iPhone software publishing service. Sure, why not? It's clear 3rd party apps are on the docket, we've heard way too many hints to think otherwise. And since you so closely control the hardware and software, maybe you're thinking of a more game console-like approach, like the way you sell iPod games -- offer customers only Apple-approved 3rd party iPhone software via iTunes. Developers get their apps certified, users get ease of installation and the assurance that their iPhone won't be knocking out AT&T's West Coast network (har), and Apple gets a cut of the cash. If that is indeed what you're doing, Apple, it sounds to us like you're in for a world of pain. The only thing worse than taking something away is taking it away only to offer it back for money.
Look, we, your users, are smart, and we demand more from every company we buy from. And as a consumer electronics company, you have a responsibility to your customers to continuously provide more. You can't put your Lego model in a kid's hand and throw a fit out when they make something better than you did. Like it or not, 3rd party developers found a way into the iPhone, thus fulfilling the inherent expectation that the iPhone should be an extensible platform. Whether or not you choose to publicly acknowledge it, that expectation is there, period. Sure, you can try to see this one through, but from where we sit in the middle, an inordinate number of first adoptors, smartphone user that switched to the iPhone, people that comprise your core customer base are starting to see you as villainous and money grubbing.
So why not let Steve give another a press-stopping mea culpa, giving your customers what they want (hey, maybe even throw in an SDK while you're at it?). Make developing for the iPhone as free and open as it is for every other smartphone around, and you still get to come out on top as the company that listens to its customers above all. Sure, the SIM unlock software might still be out there, but you can't fight this thing forever, the hackers will always catch up, and every wireless carrier in the world knows that. At a certain point you're expected to do the right thing for the people keeping you in business, and we think that's happening right now. Even if it is contractual obligation with the carriers that Apple must stop iPhone unlocking at all costs, isn't the buying public at least worthy of an explanation? Enough with the silent treatment, Apple. A lot of people handed over a lot of money for a cellphone, and we think it's time for some answers -- even if they're the answers we don't want to hear.
Image by Refracted Moments. Big ups to Erica at TUAW and the iPhone Dev Team.
haha, LOL. So true...
"Apple's latest iPhone firmware, as you've probably heard"
No Ryan...No we haven't heard a damn thing about this...What with the posts every 5 minutes and all....
Maybe this will cause you guys to hate Apple so much you will stop blogging about them every 5 minutes.
We don't write about Apple a lot because we love them (nor, conversely, hate Microsoft); we do it because there's a lot of interesting Apple news and information out there that our audience appreciates. Ain't into it? Use the Apple-free feeds! (http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/20/tired-of-iphone-and-or-apple-news-on-engadget/)
@Ryan
Hey that's a great idea about the RSS Feed stuff. But one problem. I noticed in the past that when I use this page, it is sometimes way out of date than what is currently on the website. I do not know why but I have noticed it being somewhere around 5 articles behind.
And don't tell me Apple is the only company with "Interesting" news out there.
Check this http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/surface.ars
More information on the Microsoft Surface.
Also I think your audience hates all the news as much as me. Did you check out that pole later back when you asked about the iPhone update? What was it like 40% of people said they were sick of it? (Yeah I know people can be stuffing the boxes."
Seriously I don't mind actual News but you guys post stuff that is just junk.
I'm still waiting for a "IT'S ALL MICROSOFT'S FAULT MY IPHONE WON'T WORK" from some fanboy.
Come on. This is an excellent post on an issue that is important to many engadget readers. I'm glad engadget is following this issue closely and serving as a mediator. I want apple to consider this issue carefully and figure out a way to give us native 3rd party apps without damaging their bussiness strategy. Thanks for laying it out.
Why not just make the feed have additional apple stuff for people who care instead of having it be the filtered mechanism.
apple isn't the only company doing things people are interested in ryan, give me a break. remember that whole halo3 thing? that you didn't report on becuase it was 'software' ya.. you only do hardware.
it made 170mil in 24 hours, records and stuff... that was news.. apparently... somewhere...
do what you want, blog what you want, but don't make silly excuses for it.
I don't think Apple "confused" of "conflated" the difference between unlocking and third-party apps at all. Unfortunately, EVERYONE seemed to be doing this. Leo Leporte went on a diatribe about it on MacBreak, merging the two concepts so seamlessly, you'd think AppTap had caused his Visual Voicemail to stop working. The only thing Apple didn't do, is provide a glossary at the beginning of the press release. Engadget itself even said that Apple came "close" to putting an onus on 3rd party development, but seemed pretty clear they were referring to unlockers, and the specific modifications unlocking made. I honestly think the REAL story here, that NO ONE is talking about, is whether the unlocking process truly messed up the IMEI numbers on phones, in part, or in whole (in ANY way). TUAW commented that this tendency to see munged IMEI numbers didn't seem connected to unlocks, yet did note that this was more common during early unlocking attempts. Altering the IMEI number in and of itself is actually against the law, as it could constitute an attempt to "clone" a phone, or otherwise masquerade the device using its serial number.
I'd love to call it like I see it, and say Apple did wrong. It DID NOT. If they did ANYthing wrong, it was not immediately coming out and saying, #1.) DO NOT HACK the iPhone with 3rd party applications. We are currently working on the security model of the device, and any alterations to these areas will likely be reset during major firmware updates, as we tighten security. #2.) Please be patient (already said), but we are planning 3rd party native application support in 2008. We will have more details when they're available. Until then, please take advantage of the level of support we can currently guarantee. We thank yo for your business.
Everything else is justifiable and expected. Look up UNLOCKING on the Internet. In some countries, its a "right". Here in the U.S., it is an "exemption" from prosecution under the DMCA. Doesn't that sound like we should be working on the LAWS, and not the individual business models of companies that work inside of the status quo? Currently, unlocking phones is a MINEFIELD, and if you're on the CDMA network (Verizon), you're more than likely out of luck if they decide to keep their network groovy for only "approved" devices "optimized" by excluding support for your phone.
Come on people. Big picture now.
I don't think your comment really holds any weight unless Engadget stops covering the other stuff because of Apple News. And considering Engadget DID cover MS Surface, I don't think you have any right to complain. Sorry there is an article for you to skip. Maybe I should start complaining whenever I see an MS related article. I could start complaining about how many MS Surface posts there are. But, the problem is, MS Surface is a device almost no one has touched, where as anyone can walk into an Apple Store and mess around with an iPhone. When people are surrounded by a tech, it becomes much more meaningful and relevant, and then you see more stories for it. Since that is definitely true with Apple devices, you see more Apple stories. If you don't like Apple, you are ignoring a major part of the tech industry, and I feel sorry for you.
BUT PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING. ITS A WASTE OF TIME!!!
Or how about, guys, you just scroll right past the articles you don't want to read? That's what I do every time there's an article about the XBox or PlayStation. Don't care, don't read it. You're the only ones wasting your own time by reading--and commenting on, no less--news you don't care about. I hate to say it, but that's just being a troll.
you idiot, you don't speak for the engadget 'audience', seriously if you don't like th blog I've got some award winning advice, Don't read it, much less don't bother wasting your time posting comments on it. ryan + team keep up the good work don't listen to this dudes crap.
Hey Ryan,
I hope you take their criticism as constructive. I for one don't mind seeing Apple news on your website. If I don't want to read it then I just skip it. Kind of like the radio or TV station thing where if I don't like a certain show then I just try to find another that suits my fancy in a different channel. So maybe this is a good thing that people are airing out their gripes.
Now, perhaps you may want to consider opening up an Engadget Apple site, similar to what you did with Engadget HD and Engadget Mobile. Or maybe even just posting all iPhone posts in the Engadget Mobile site. Just a thought.
Personally, I've always been a fan and appreciate the hard work you guys do. Besides, I don't know of any other blog that has user meets and tries their hardest for people to have a good time (Boston 2006 baby, yeah!).
I think this letter is great and I hope you will get the same response from Apple as you did from Palm. I sent a complaint letter to Steve over the weekend where I mentioned my frustration at him as well for allowing the 3rd party apps to be taken out. I asked if the reasoning for this was because Apple will be introducing software for the iPhone soon. If so then he should let us know. His response was that they're working on the things that I suggested. Whether it was Steve or not I don't know but I've heard the guy actually reads his emails and responds to them.
Anyway, don't take the criticism in a negative way. Their point is valid. See my suggestions above and hopefully they make sense.
APeguero
Why dont you STFU and go elsewhere if you're not happy with the Apple posts here.
look at the title of this blog. Go to Ilovetocook.com if you don't want to see (no one's making you read them) posts about the iphone.
Drakin,
I find your post to be highly uncalled for. I own an iPhone and have heard a great deal about it, but don't complain every time I see a post about it. There is an inordinate amount of places to gather your daily info. There is no need to be negative and call out the author of a post for doing his job.
You do bring up a very interesting point about iPhone posts possibly belonging in Engadget Mobile.
For new releases, features, rumors, and corporate letters like these, some of the iPhone posts do belong on the main Engadget site. However, there have been a lot of general iPhone news stories posted on the main site that don't grasp the interest of the majority of readers, such as an article on a new product would.
Along with many other products, I do enjoy following stories about the iPhone. However, the iPhone is, after all, a Phone, and most articles written about the device itself maybe should be posted at Engadget Mobile.
Ryan is quite accurate in that iPhone news has recently been unfolding faster than most other products, and accordingly needs more articles than other products in order to keep up to date.
There isn't as much of an issue over the amount of iPhone and Apple related posts as there being an issue of if these stories discuss the innovation of the technology community.
You do bring up a very interesting point about iPhone posts possibly belonging in Engadget Mobile.
For new releases, features, rumors, and corporate letters like these, some of the iPhone posts do belong on the main Engadget site. However, there have been a lot of general iPhone news stories posted on the main site that don't grasp the interest of the majority of readers, such as an article on a new product would.
Along with many other products, I do enjoy following stories about the iPhone. However, the iPhone is, after all, a Phone, and most articles written about the device itself maybe should be posted at Engadget Mobile.
Ryan is quite accurate in that iPhone news has recently been unfolding faster than most other products, and accordingly needs more articles than other products in order to keep up to date.
There isn't as much of an issue over the amount of iPhone and Apple related posts as there being an issue of if these stories discuss the innovation of the technology community.
Ryan, you know, it's not that everybody of us, people who are tired of i-this i-that, do not care about apple. We would like our feeds to have IMPORTANT apple news. We want to know about everything, not just about apple or just about anything BUT apple. It's that simple.
@ haters:
Is this your blog??? No. Hmm...thats what I thought. STFU!! The man can post whatever he wants.
"Or maybe even just posting all iPhone posts in the Engadget Mobile site."
Err... why AREN'T all the iPhone posts specifically made on the Engadget Mobile site? I mean, isn't that site SPECIFICALLY for mobile phones and similar devices? Seriously, posting about a cellphone in the cellphone edition of Engadget is just so much more appropriate it's not funny.
Huge diffrence between news and "steve landed in another country" "jobs takes dump" etc
you Go Drakin!!!
wow dude you suck! who subscribes to a blog and then turns around and bashes the content? there are a bazzzilion tech blogs out there. go pick one that super-serves your own selfish needs!....makes ya sound like a content-nazi. Douche!
Dude maybe you and maybe a lot of people dont like it but some of us fuckin love it so stfu and stop reading it, just move the hell on and dont waste your time posting. Engadget is not going to cut it out because some little whiney bitch like you cries a river over it.
APPLE FANBOYS UNITE! (fanboys, feel free to join my AFU facebook group!)
I like how people find what they want to see...
Apple is doing the same mistake when then they introduced the Macs. They are ignoring the Network effect, the power of third party. When Apple denied third party hardware to MAC or Apple OS, Microsoft was having developer conferences trying to get everyone on board. What made Windows successful are their partners.
IPhone can be easier to use and looks better than Pocket PC phones. (Sound similar? Mac vs Windows) but Pocket PC has wide open support for 3rd party developers and device makers. Sooner or later MS will come with a on par UI to IPhone and beat them again.
Nice post! Exactly the same as my wonder :)
That is perhaps the biggest piece of common sense I've ever heard in engadget comments!
Well done!
At this point, it's just a matter of time till someone makes an unlocked knockoff of the iphone that does everything iphone users complain about right (Ev-do, bigger battery). that's the phone I'm waiting for.
well said.
Good comment, but you're forgetting that another reason Windows (and Windows Mobile) is a lot bigger than Mac OS is, not only 3rd party support, but the fact that Microsoft will let anyone install Windows and Windows Mobile on their device.
OSX and OSX Mobile are Apple's and only on Apple's devices.
Whether OSX Mobile will be bigger than Windows Mobile is unknown, but it'll always be on the iPhone and only the iPhone.
You got it in one, well said
It's that dam business model again, Apples vertical (don't mess we know best), MS horizontal (see what you lot can come up with, you know best). We may not always know best but it opens things up a bit.
Apple are a hardware company that happen to make amazing software. MS on the other hand are simply a software company "spreading their legs" to anyone who wants some. In my opinion, Apple are the only technology company left with any integrity and vision.
yeah seriously ryan... why dont you take a break from reporting all of this apple news to go tell the guys over at joystiq to STFU about Halo... really I'm getting sick of it...
I wish they'd stop referring to people who buy tech gear as "consumers". How about "users" instead? Clearly, the paradigm of a benevolent corporate "Producer" supplying "product" to hoards of sheep-like "consumers" is no longer appropriate when iPhone purchasers are flocking to those who offer to remove the corporately installed shackles from their recent purchase.
We are not consumers, or users (obligatory Tron head nod here), we're customers.
I for one have never "consumed" an electronic device ;p
Why haven't you? We know that it blends.
bricks typically don't blend all that well.
Feeling a bit self-important, Engadget?
Feeling un-important, Fred?
Feeling smart-alecky, Asher?
Fred's got a point. This Engadget article is long-winded and fluffy. Its main points are lost in its gabby condescension.
Feeling myself under my desk.
Wow, Palm pays attention to you for 5 minutes and all of a sudden you're "acting as a voice for the technology community,"
Why you feel it's necessary to write an open letter stating the obvious, and already well published fact that the firm ware updates suck and nobody likes them, is kind of silly.
Sooo 50% of people owning an iPhone but not hacking it is nobody? Suuuuure.
Wow, Palm pays attention to you for 5 minutes and all of a sudden you're "acting as a voice for the technology community,"
Exactly. I think this site is starting to take itself WAY too seriously. I've been reading Engadget for a long time, which give me perspective in this statement, and I can definitely see the ego inflating.
Even as a Mac owner, I'm sick and tired of all the Apple news here. This really is like Joystiq and their non-stop coverage of the world's most decent shooter, Halo3.
Wow, I actually took the completely opposite approach, and found it quite responsible to speak for a large user base that normally has no voice in the market.
And seriously guys, bloggers have a lot of power these days. Haven't you figured that out by now? Jesus, welcome to the 90's, people.
The Iphone is probably the most beautiful piece of electronic equiptment I've seeen to date (along side the PSP).
But, just when I think I might actually spend my money on an Apple product, situations like this arise which remind me of how Apple handles their devices and I lose my buying appetite.
Got a Blackberry Curve instead.
How is the Curve related to an iPhone? BB locks down there devices more than the iPhone, don't get your point.
Really? Because I'm pretty sure there are a plethora of 3rd party Blackberry programs and it's extremely easy to unlock them. Plus their updates don't lock you out of your phone.
Think or research before posting, thanks.
I don't think you guys get it. When someone unlocks their phone and elects to go with a carrier other than AT&T then that is a direct hit against Apple's bottom line. As is they get a hefty chunk of the AT&T monthly wireless revenue. For the third party apps, ringtones, etc. Monopolies make more money. Nowadays it's all about the Benjamins.
How is it taking revenue from Apple. The people that unlock these devices don't want to be with AT&T anyway so if the iPhone was totally locked down they wouldn't buy the phone or the service. Apple gets no money for hardware or service plans if the restrictions on the device keeps customers from other carriers away. Apple is making alot more money on hardware sales that they would otherwise not get if the device couldn't be unlocked.
i gotta agree with Duey on this. i've been happily using Mac since '85 and think the phone is frikkin awesome...
But sorry Steve... no T-Mobile no buy.
heres the question i'm interested in. if people are getting turned away for bricked iphones that had been hacked, what are they doing for the people who just got bricked, and how can they immediately tell the difference.
If i'd had a bricked hacked iphone i would have just lied. Its not like they can turn it on and check at the genius bar... or can they?
Personally I'm glad that all these idiot microsoft-hating apple fanboys can't use their phones. That's why Apple is a distant 2nd; they have a closed system; apple hardware, apple software, apple prices...it's a joke.
aaron:
Apple is a distance second for Operating systems, but not for computer sales, or mp3 players or phones. They sell far more of those items than Microsoft...
Boynamedsue:
I believe that v1.1.1 leaves all hackery in the iPhone. I saw this as part of the latest solution found to downgrade the iPhone to 1.0.2 where it says somewhere that all the 3rd party apps, etc, are present there on the bricked phones. So if this is the case then I'm sure the Geniouses (Not!) at Apple Stores have some tool to tell if the 3rd party apps are in the iPhone. If the apps aren't there then I'm sure these cats can either fix the iPhone or replace it. If the apps are there then that's how I think these cats can tell the modified iPhone owners to screw.
Microsoft doesn't sell computers or phones. But it's nice to know you're keeping track of the sales of stuff they don't sell.
Well said, Ryan. The only other logical alternative is for Steve to declare his ecosystem closed, admit his mistake in encouraging development and offer to refund the full retail price to those whose phones were bricked or are unwilling to play by the new, more restrictive rules...
...makes total sense to me. As for all of the iphone info on Engadget, speaking for quite a few potential iphone customers sitting on the sidelines before making an expensive purchase from Apple/AT&T, I really appreciate the info (besides its a fascinating case study in technology marketing). When I get bored with the Apple info, I scroll right on by it.
Nice write-up of the issues and the possible outcomes of future choices, Ryan. It's good to read a succinct summation of so much of what's been typed up in Engadget posts and comments over the last month.
That being said, I'd be really surprised to see Apple reply to your post in the same manner as Palm did a few months ago. I think the only Stevie J who will respond to this online will be FSJ, not the real SJ. And that's not your fault - I just don't think it's Apple's M.O. to come out of the ivory tower unless 1) it's already been planned meticulously beforehand, 2) a gazillion people express total outrage over Apple's behavior. I doubt this will be one of those times.
Quick postscript: I think Engadget might be able to start another consumer-oriented electronics blog populated by 1) "What would you do to change device XXXX?" and 2) "A letter to manufacturer XXXX" posts. It'd be an interesting way to see how much of an effect Engadget readers and early adopters can have on electronics makers...
I think you guys are way off base on this one. Although I wish Appple would allow 3rd party aps, I understand why they want to keep the phone locked down. Additionally, I don't think the warning was intended to preemtively place blame on 3rd party aps but was fair warning to users to not hack their phones. If you hacked your phone and didn't want it to be bricked then you shouldn't have updated to v1.1.1. Also, I seriously doubt "thousands" of people have hacked thier phones. The average iPhone owner isn't going take the risk or have the knowledge to do serious hacking. ifuntastic is one thing, a sim hack is another. I hacked my phone using ifuntastic but "unhacked" it before I updated to v1.1.1. No problem!
well said!!
"The only thing worse than taking something away is taking it away only to offer it back for money."
They already did this with 1.1.1: ringtones.
"We're in a unique position here at Engadget, acting as a voice for the technology community,..."
Since when?
""We're in a unique position here at Engadget, acting as a voice for the technology community,..."
Since when?"
uh, did you find this site via stumbleupon or digg or something dude? you're out of your fu%$ing mind if you don't think engadget commands both respect and attention in a, although not totally unique yet still terribly important, way from the broader technology community - users and producers alike. and for all the apple/iphone/whatever haters who don't want to read about this stuff, just do like fatties do - put down the fork. you don't have to click on a story unless you're in some way a closeted apple news whore. scroll down. it's what i do whatever doesn't interest me. a$$holes.
I agree with your a$$holes comment, only I think it refers to you. Engadget is nothing more than a newsbite site that makes money off of clicks. It is not the voice of anyone, much less the technology community. Saying that they are simply furthers their own, self-declared importance in hopes of pumping up revenue. I'd expect the voice of the technology community to be more professional than Engadget is with its juvenile, insulting quips and people such as you, their uninformed following.
wow!! an incredibly insightful, useful and yet still biting response, sure to further your commentary's purpose, whatever that may have been (sure, two words can make a difference, but not your two original words, which were meant to do nothing other than incite a bit of criticism). seriously, 'craig', get over your procrastination and go back to the poli-sci paper or whatever you're working on that was due yesterday, and quit wasting your time fu*&king with people who think your comments reflect those of a rejected fanboy without a purpose. if you want to say something of value, say something. otherwise, piss off. and if you don't have something else of value to do (a la paper recently mentioned), then DOUBLE WOW - you're a waste of skin. seriously.
You are certainly full of insults and light on insight yourself. Why don't you take your own advise and simply "scroll down"? I know you say "it's what i do" but that's clearly not the case. In fact, it seems the opposite. I suppose an Engadget astroturfer would be expected to react just as you do.
Surely, you can come up with a more cohesive and logical set of insults that presuming I'm an ignorant student and dejected fanboy. If you knew anything of my posting history, as you clearly don't based on the assumption that I got here from Digg, you'd be embarrassed that you made such comments. That assumed that a paid asshole such as yourself is capable of feeling enbarrassment.
whew! for such an avid poster on engadget, or wherever else, you come off more as a dilettante than a veteran poster. and yeah, you should be working on a paper, because your grammar and spelling sucks a$$. i'm now presuming high school kid.
why don't i scroll down at this point? because your useless ass made it a point for me now to do the opposite. it's not about being insulting (which you were before i was), it's about addressing your being dismissive and being BEYOND ill-informed, both of which you are, btw. if you don't like engadget, and think the commentary on both the writers' and readers' sides are juvenile, then why the fu#k do you even come to the site at all? seriously, why are you even bothering to post at all??????? and i guarantee you'll respond to this, making your presence here even that more useless and annoying. just f#ck off!! but if you ACTUALLY want to say something, then please: 1) check your spelling (it's advice, not advise) 2) say something about the topic at hand.
apropo the subject: sure apple has done a proverbial shark jump with their recent update (in that their relevance to the 'think different' group has been shaken, if not stirred), but i don't think this bump in the road is going to change either the hacker community's resolve or apple's bottom line. ryan, i applaud you for a (largely) very well-written statement on the state of affairs on both sides. i simply wonder whether or not it will resonate for either (and sadly so, as i feel there is a captive audience for both - but let's see how the engadget community decides!)
Pulling out all the stops now, eh? Foul language, bombardment with insults, making up facts, attacking my grammar...you have it all down. Sad that the argument isn't on your side.
I read Engadget for gadget news. You know, it's intended purpose? I'm annoyed by the self-importance, the assumed expertise, and jackasses such as yourself. I'm free to use the comment system just as you are free to abuse it. Thanks for the tips though. I love getting advise from middle school students with brand new thesauri.
"...i applaud you for a (largely) very well-written statement on the state of affairs on both sides."
Go ahead and suck his dick, dcpetral. Is it as good as Steve's?
Engadget fanboys...who knew?
I doubt Apple gives a crap about this but I want them to know that I will not be buying an iPhone next week as I had planned because they are the same old Apple shutting out 3rd parties. And they wonder why they don't have the market share of Microsoft. BOOOOOOOOOOO!
They should open development. Worry about stability? well, they can create a web or something were you can find AppleAproved3rdPartyApps they can even close their system to that appleaproved apps. it wont be as good as 100% free SDK but very cool.
well, i have a 1.0.2 phone, but if the next firmware (with something interesting) is still unable to run third parties software, i will come back to my windows mobile devices..... no 3g, no mms, no international support... too many no.. no.. no.. i understand that apple locks the baseband to at&t, but i can't understand how to lock the third parties application a 600 mhz processor for what?
Welcome to the future.
In the very near future all devices will brick themselves whenever you hack them to do what you want as opposed to what the content cartels desire.
"Like it or not, 3rd party developers found a way into the iPhone, thus fulfilling the inherent expectation that the iPhone should be an extensible platform."
This statement reflects the inherent flaw of your argument, Engadget. Didn't you yourselves say that the iPhone was not really a smartphone, in as much as it WAS NOT INTENDED to have third party applications installed? With this in mind, users who purchased the device should have done so knowing exactly what it was, a device with a proprietary OS. If they wanted a smartphone, they should have purchased a device such as a Treo, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, or Symbian phone instead of trying to turn the iPhone into something was and is not.
I bought the phone myself knowing it was exactly what it was, and have not complained about a thing since.
IT WAS EXPECTED BY US CUSTOMERS. hackers are omnipotent these days and what with the apple tv seemingly open to hacks we EXPECTED apple to turn a blind eye in the interests of the consumer. but seemingly they are going for the effective short term strategy at the expense of customer satisfaction and loyalty. i think that this is an excellent blog post and this blog is also superb.
to no one in particular:
if you dont like engdaget THEN WHY THE CRAP ARE YOU HERE?
(quote)
[...] a device with a proprietary OS [...]
Windows Mobile also a proprietary OS, thus allowing 3rd party apps...
As you said, "This statement reflects the inherent flaw of your argument..."
I am an AT&T customer with an unlocked and unhacked iPhone. The 1.1.1 update killed my custom ringtones even as I was holding off on upgrading iTunes to keep them. I think it is ridiculous to pay for ringtones through iTunes. (BTW the idea that making custom ringtones of songs you own is illegal is utter crap) Ever since this iPhone came out it has really shown that apple will piss off their customers for an extra $1.98 after we bought the damn thing for $400 plus a percentage of our contracts. I caved after this and bought a ringtone to see how it worked through iTunes. It was awful. It was so distorted becuase the gain was too high (which you can't adjust) that I removed it from my phone. I'm sure it wasn't Apple's intention to alienate a new customer for an extra $1.98.
I am with you Andrew. This is my biggest complaint. I have over 15,000 LEGALLY ripped or purchased files. I had (past tense obviously) 32 ringtones on my phone and now *poof* - nada. Of all the stupid things to lock down, this has to be it. Well maybe wallpaper that is useless unless the phone is locked...
I can understand Apple wanting to block down custom applications, sim locks, etc. But things as basic as assigning custom tones to a contact or an alarm or having the background be an image of my choice? Even the cheapest phone you get off a street vendor in China has this functionality.
I would pay $30 so that I can make 3 or 4 ringtones with iPhoneRingToneMaker before I spend one more dollar on an Apple product.
Oh my god. First off, I could care less about the iPhone, Microsoft, etc.
But if you are going to write a semi-decent letter (and this goes to a whole lot of other engadget posts) can you all PLEASE use spell-check, or re-read your post to catch the dumbest mistakes (i.e. the three in the second paragraph)!
how many times where people warn about this update by engadget gizmodo apple and almost every tech site out there, even when you try to install it it warn you, engadget & gizmodo even whent out and said don't do anything untill we try it first and people still whent out and did it, so its no ones fault but there own screw them all
Love my mac. Soooo looked forward to the iphone but waited (thankfully). Now I would not have an apple personal product if I won it free. I would donate it. Seriously, Job's is on an ego trip that makes the entire rest of the US combined look like a humble monk!
Flashback to 1983: Steve Jobs deems Apple "too corporate" "too controlling" sets up shop outside of campus and raises pirate flag in order to develop the Mac.
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Pirate_Flag.txt
Exactly. Steve is now old and one of the suits. Oh how we change.
I'M SO iBORED RIGHT NOW!
so what you're trying to say in message to iphone users, is that apple didn't brick iphone son purpose, they simply rushed out some bad code that is breaking devices?
and you guys are trying to place a neutral spin on this?
if microsoft was sending out updates blowing peoples motherboards you'd scream bloody murder. engadget is weak man.
over the last few weeks you guys have really got stupid. I never cryed fanboy comments for posting too many article son apple, it's a blog post what you want, but honestly, comments like that show you're a little loopy upstairs.
Got to agree there, not necessarily aiming at engadget, but AAPL-ogists. Doesn't matter if AAPL meant it or not, fact is they screwed up a lot of phones with bad firmware. MSFT would've gotten creamed for this and so rightly has AAPL so far.
Well, I don't feel a lot of sympathy for people who bought the iPhone and are now wining. You should have understood what you bought, because Apple/at&t have been very clear on what the phone would be. If people thought that Steve was some kind of white-knight that would deliver them from the telecom dragon, they are a bit too naive for their own good.
Same mistakes with a new generation. Some companies never learn.
I bought the iPhone, never modded it, and still use it today. It does everything that I want it to. Modding might be fun for some, but I'm happy to use the phone as it was produced. THAT'S WHY I BOUGHT IT. Go figure.
TK
Some of us aren't satisfied with a device as it comes from the factory. Some of us see a device that can be improved and made to be what we want.
Kynetx,
Fine, but you can't be pissed at them for taking away something that was never actually promised. I never hacked my phone for that very reason - the upgrades weren't worth the hassle.
TK
I live in Rep. of Ireland and have been desperate to get my hands on the iphone since it was announced 9 months ago an Macworld. I have been a mac user for years now and I try to convert everybody I know to Mac and I always big up Apple and iTunes and iPod etc.
I contacted Apple PR to find out when the iPhone would be available over here and I got an email saying no announcement has yet been made for the iPhone relaease in Ireland.
Here is the point I am getting to .
1. I have been waiting to get the iPhone since January .
2. I paid 500 Euros for my iPhone off a guy who is bringing loads back from The Apple Store in New York and selling them on Ebay in Ireland for 600 Euros.
3. Nobody in Apple cares about this tiny little Island on the edge of Europe.
4. I am an O2 customer in Ireland (The same 02 that signed the contract for the UK) I have 2 phones which I use for my business and pay 02 alot of money each month.
5. I used app tapp and anysim to unlock my iPhone and I still cannot believe I actually did it cos I am pretty amateur user.
6. I love my iPhone and all the third party apps.
7. Still no movies available to buy in The Apple Store in Ireland.
8. All my ipod games that I bought from Apple dont work on my new iPod.
9. I am now afraid to ever plug it into my €1500 imac and put the €900 of iTunes songs i have bought from iTunes Store.
I know they say love is blind, but come on fella - you sound like a glutton for punishment!
If you're getting such a rough deal from Apple, why do you keep on buying the stuff?
Why not switch to a manufacturer that gives you what you want?
Wow ... I really think that you made a nice comment.
First by showing what kind of hackers "violating" the term of use are out there:
Simply people that love Apple products and the iPhone ... that simply don't have another choice than to unlock.
I mean ... how crazy is this? People want it so much and Apple doesn't want to sell it to them. That's so really, really ... twisted and dumb ...
Nice try but futile I believe...Stevie (nut)Job will not bow down to demand as he's creating hs (and no one else's) utopia!
Seriously though all the @$$ had to do was offer unlocked phones at the iPhone's original price point - they would've sold 10 million units easy as ppl from Bangkok to Barbados would buy them and carry them home to use unlocked on local networks.
THEN give AT&T the US headstart by making them the only US carrier w/subsidized phones @ $399! Sure AT&T wouldn't make quite as much in the short run but he race is not always for the swift... there are always ppl who can't afford $599 who would've taken the $399 at AT&T to get in on the new tech.
As to the 3rd party - open it up! Even if Apple didn't the could at least ensure firmwares don't brick phones and simple revoke hardware warranties on tapered units. Well within their EULA but not TOTALLY pi$$ing off their consumer base!
There...was that so hard Steve?!
I agree... Selling the iPhone unlocked in the first place, and keeping Apple independent from the carriers would have been a better/smarter move! I would have been fine without visual voice mail.
AT&T can't even unlock the iPhone for people who request it (after 90 days with your account in good standing you're normally allowed to request for AT&T to unlock your phone): http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/28/90-days-later/