More details on Apple's iTunes movie / HD rentals

It wasn't exactly crystal clear during Steve's keynote today, but apparently, there's a fair bit of red tape attached to these movie rentals. First off, since the Apple TV hardware is remaining the same, users can still only expect 1,280 by 720 resolution on the high-end, and although 100 HD movies are reportedly ready to be viewed, not a single TV show can say the same. Furthermore, a note at the bottom of the Apple TV's revised tech specs points out that "Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound is not available with all HD rentals," so there's that. We've also learned that HD movie rentals will be available exclusively through the Apple TV, and considering that only rentals made from iTunes can be moved to other devices, any downloads originating from the Apple TV (including everything in high-definition) won't be making their way onto your iPod, iTunes library, etc. Depressing, we know.

[Wii60 @ Jan 15th 2008 2:57PM]

Bittorrent.

[James Ollier @ Jan 15th 2008 3:05PM]

No, Rapidshare

[Jeff @ Jan 15th 2008 3:39PM]

Netflix.

[timatl @ Jan 15th 2008 4:05PM]

the 360

[LJKelley @ Jan 15th 2008 4:36PM]

360 & Netflix (Unlimited is the way to go). But its amazing that when people copy Apple everybody mentions but nobody mentions the pionner in this exact 24 Hour rental model... IE MICROSOFT. I guess Apple doesn't copy...

[Tom @ Jan 15th 2008 9:05PM]

@LJKelley: Jobs even admitted Microsoft has done movie rentals along with many other companies during the keynote, and basically stated every method for getting movies to the TV has been flawed, including Apples past strategy.

The 360 was probably the best way to do it, but it was still limited by the fact that not every 360 has a drive, nor do many 360s have a large drive to store more then one movie. The 360 also has the issue of not having the backing of everyone, something Apple somehow pulled off today.

No, Apple wasn't first (and they rarely are), but they seemed to have learned for everyone else and have done it right in most areas.

[Eric M. @ Jan 15th 2008 2:58PM]

IRC

[CharlieX @ Jan 15th 2008 3:00PM]

*YAWN* Apple TV? Whazz that?

[Rylan @ Jan 15th 2008 3:00PM]

Dammit. I was actually excited about this, but I'm not buying a whole new box. For just a bit more, I can get Blu-ray/HD-DVD combo drive for my HTPC.

[Ted @ Jan 15th 2008 3:22PM]

"Do you not read, or are you slightly retarded?"

Wtf is up with the attitude? O_o

[James Ollier @ Jan 15th 2008 3:56PM]

Had a bad day. A really bad day.

[Brandon @ Jan 15th 2008 5:33PM]

Do you work for one of Apple's competitors? lol j/k

[cswallow01 @ Jan 15th 2008 3:00PM]

Well, last I checked, iPod's cannot decode 1280x720 content. Somehow I doubt the hardware in any current iPod can be firmware'd to support 720p content. 640x480 baseline if I recall, which as well should know is not HD...

[Tiptup300 @ Jan 15th 2008 3:43PM]

680x480 is 480p , but honestly why would you care if your ipod is playing hd content, the screen is TINY!

[Galley @ Jan 15th 2008 5:14PM]

A few months ago, my sources told me that a firmware update would allow 720p content to be played back on the Fall 207 iPods. I figured it would've happened today. You would think that Apple wants the same file to be able to be played back on anything. For now I will have to subscribe to an HD podcast for the Apple TV I ordered today, and a 480p version for my iPod classic. I hook the iPod to a 19" HDTV in my kitchen. :-(

[jin @ Jan 15th 2008 3:01PM]

Hi, Luck here from Apple TV Source (http://appletvsource.com). I still wonder why Steve Jobs mentioned that the Apple TV is all new. As I mentioned on my web site, I chatted with a representative from Apple's online store and she informed me that the new Apple TV is exactly the same as the old one. Just preloaded with new software and lower price.

I am a little bit disappointed with that. With HD movie availability, there is just no way that 160GB is enough to hold those movies. I do understand that the rented movies will be deleted automatically but what about other content like music and photos? I was hoping for the ability to stack a USB external drive.

Maybe next upgrade...

[Jake @ Jan 15th 2008 3:08PM]

This isn't "depressing," its ABSURD. Any of the computers in my house has more storage space and more horsepower than the ridiculously underpowered AppleTV. That I need to pay Apple $230 for hardware that I don't need (got an HTPC, thanks very much) in order to get access to content that THEY DON'T NEED TO RESTRICT TO THE APPLE TV is ridiculous. Actually, its robbery.

So much for that, Apple. I was looking forward to getting good looking content from you for once! As it stands, your SD downloads look terrible compared with Amazon's Unbox service. If you can't make that happen without foisting unnecessary hardware on me, then we have nothing more to talk about. Bye!

[Jake @ Jan 15th 2008 3:11PM]

Sorry, my previous entry wasn't supposed to be a response to jin...

[JT @ Jan 15th 2008 4:06PM]

Just make your itunes folder an external drive and stream it to the apple tv. Storage problem solved.

[Stephan @ Jan 17th 2008 1:41PM]

Jin,

dont worry about storage, Apple TV will only store RENTED movies. Everything you PURCHASE will be transferred automatically to your iTunes and then streamed from there.

[Will2 @ Jan 15th 2008 3:03PM]

I am more curious about what the FOX movie guy said about the 'free iTunes versions' of movies within DVDs.

Thank you. You just made pirating those movies that much more easy.

[Wii60 @ Jan 15th 2008 3:14PM]

I think its something to do with ripping and DRMing your dvds into iTunes.

[John @ Jan 15th 2008 3:03PM]

It seems that we all remembered to take our RDF-inhibitors today. Stevenote 08 wasn't all that it was cracked up to be.

[John @ Jan 15th 2008 3:05PM]

I just can't see this becoming popular. All the buzz is about 1080p, so this thing is out in the cold, and "DVD quality" when it's all HDDVD vs Blu-Ray will turn off even more potential customers. But as it doesn't effect me in any way should this fail or succeed, I'm not going to make any definite predictions.

[Lisa @ Jan 15th 2008 7:19PM]

It won't turn off the average consumer of movies and DVDs. Resolution isn't the biggest turn-on for most people--availability and price are. Apple got the availability by getting the major studios on board, and their prices are OK. Personally, while I like HD, and I subscribe to my cable's HD content, I really don't care about renting HD movies. The picture is better, yes, but not so much that I would pay $1 more for it per movie, even if it were 1080p. The movie's story is important, and if the picture is good (and the picture on my TV using my Apple TV is quite good, even at 640x480) then all is well. I think that will be the case for most people. HD may be the only way to go for certain consumers, but that list is still short, and HD still has a long way from becoming what most people need to have (or even care about).

[micah @ Jan 15th 2008 3:05PM]

This whole thing is like a honeymoon gone bad. All these fluttery feelings...then reality sets in...

[dave @ Jan 15th 2008 5:33PM]

yeah, woo, proper itunes movie store that works. Only hd on apple tv? tethered to apple tv?
im filing for divorce

[travistaylor @ Jan 15th 2008 3:07PM]

Wow. I was hoping to purchase some HD Movies via iTunes so that I could hook my MacBook Pro up to my HDTV via a DVI/HDMI cable to view HD movies.

Pretty lame that I can't do that. Actually, it's very lame. Just a simple ploy to try and sell Apple TV units.

[Tom @ Jan 15th 2008 3:07PM]

720p with compressed to shite audio?

No thanks, I'll pass and stick with optical HDM.

[looseinthedeuce @ Jan 15th 2008 3:08PM]

ummm, my cable company has had this for years. It's called VOD, and it doesn't cost that much. Oh, and the bandwidth for VOD allows you to watch it in real-time. I'm guessing these "DVD quality" movies are either:
a) not DVD quality (~ 5-7mb/s)
b) not watchable in real-time as they download, as a lot of people don't have that kind of continuous d/n speed

And if the HD movies are actually "HD-Lite" movies, then just forget it. Oh, and does this work with iTunes on my HTPC, or do I have to buy an AppleTV?

[Ron H @ Jan 16th 2008 2:35PM]

What cable company do you have? If it's Time Warner then their VOD selection is crap at best. Comcast's is only a hair better. Unless you fork over more $$$ to the cable company for premium services like HBO and Showtime every month, the bulk of VOD is a random assortment of programming. There is no rhyme or reason to what is available and when. Each network decides what they want to post and, more often than not, it's older library stuff you don't want to watch anyway. I've had an AppleTV since launch. While it is not nearly as crisp as the few channels Time Warner has on the HD tier, the image quality blows the standard digital cable channels and VOD programming out of the water. I'm not going to rent a movie from iTunes for pristine image quality. I'm renting it because I missed it at the theatre and it's not one worth buying on DVD. I'll take a rental from iTunes over a pay per view title from my cable company any day of the week.

[Chris Hutchinson @ Jan 15th 2008 3:09PM]

I thought El Stevo said you can sync your Apple TV back to your computer? Wouldn't that mean that you could then get them on other devices then?

[Jake @ Jan 15th 2008 3:12PM]

Read it again.

[Tom @ Jan 15th 2008 3:16PM]

Now that I think about it, they should have introduced an entirely new piece of hardware capable of 1080p with a Blu-ray player in it.

I just don't see anyone really giving a rat's ass about this with all the chatter being about 1080p, loseless audio, HD-DVD and Blu-ray at the moment.

[Shahryar @ Jan 15th 2008 3:17PM]

I was on the exact same boat as you Travis. Check out my premature comments here:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/live-from-macworld-2008-steve-jobs-keynote/6#c9858816

and here:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/apple-introduces-itunes-movie-rentals/1#c9861244

[quailman @ Jan 15th 2008 3:21PM]

No HD movies on my iPod??
Who cares?

[Jared @ Jan 15th 2008 3:29PM]

Steve made it sound so simple and amazing in his keynote, and then you get slammed with the nasty details? Why would you not allow iTunes users to access HD content? That is absurd! Are they trying to kill the Apple TV?

[Tim @ Jan 15th 2008 4:00PM]

No, not trying to kill the Apple TV, trying to sell more of them to people who want to watch in hi-def. Too bad that most people who care about hi-def will already have an HTPC and just end up being pissed off about not being able to watch the movies in iTunes.

FAIL

[Russ @ Jan 15th 2008 4:42PM]

The reason you can't have HD playback on a computer is because then it would be easy to pirate. AppleTV features an HDMI interface to the TV where as a PC, e.g. MacBook or iMac, just uses a DVI connector. DVI allows the screen data to be intercepted and recorded allowing the HD content to be copied (not to mention apps that can "record" on-screen video on a computer). HDMI encrypts the content so that it can't be copied. So this limitation is all about piracy.

[ADam @ Jan 15th 2008 5:46PM]

Actually DVI and HDMI are essentially the same thing--that's why you can hook up a PS3 via a HDMI to DVI cable and play Blu-Ray on older HDTVs with only DVI inputs (as long as they support HDCP). DVI just doesn't carry audio. The difference is in the devices themselves and their support for HDCP...no the cable type.

[Russ @ Jan 15th 2008 5:00PM]

Does anybody know if the standard def movie rentals (e.g. anamorphic 720x480) have 5.1 sound?

[Russ @ Jan 15th 2008 5:04PM]

Found my own answer: No. On the Apple TV Tech Specs page at the bottom it says that SD movie rentals have stereo audio. This is a DEAL BREAKER for me. Stereo sound on video rentals is too shabby to justify a dedicated box (e.g. AppleTV). I'll come back later and check it out when they get more HD rental inventory. Meanwhile, it will be interesting to see what specs the Netflix/LG box supports.

[Philip S @ Jan 15th 2008 5:15PM]

This is absolutely stupid. I was initially really excited about this, since I have a Media Center PC connected to my TV via DVI>HDMI. Guess I'll stick with Netflix and HD DVD for a while longer.

[liin @ Jan 15th 2008 5:31PM]

Nobody has Apple TV. But people use iTunes.

Why can't we just rent OR BUY hd format from iTunes and play it on our huge arse monitor? I'm so ready to get rid of my 24" CRT. Apple needs to make a better deal with those paranoid studios.

[Jon @ Jan 15th 2008 6:02PM]

Even though it's already been said here a thousand times, I'll repeat it just in case apple actually listens...no HD on my MAC means no rentals for me! I'm not buying an AppleTV just for HD rentals.

Listening to the keynote, I was all excited to try it out and rent a new HD movie tonight. I have a mac mini hooked up to my HDTV and surround system. No way in hell I'm paying for crappy 640x480 video with stereo sound. What the hell decade does apple think this is???

Oh well, I'll rent on my Xbox 360 and TimeWarner HD VOD service. They are both far from perfect, but far better than this new iTunes setup.

Give it a few months people...after this retarded "idea" blows up in Apples face, they'll cave and offer the HD movies via iTunes...I hope.

[Jon @ Jan 15th 2008 6:02PM]

Even though it's already been said here a thousand times, I'll repeat it just in case apple actually listens...no HD on my MAC means no rentals for me! I'm not buying an AppleTV just for HD rentals.

Listening to the keynote, I was all excited to try it out and rent a new HD movie tonight. I have a mac mini hooked up to my HDTV and surround system. No way in hell I'm paying for crappy 640x480 video with stereo sound. What the hell decade does apple think this is???

Oh well, I'll rent on my Xbox 360 and TimeWarner HD VOD service. They are both far from perfect, but far better than this new iTunes setup.

Give it a few months people...after this retarded "idea" blows up in Apples face, they'll cave and offer the HD movies via iTunes...I hope.

[Ian @ Jan 15th 2008 6:50PM]

Does anyone know if these rentals provide English subtitles?

[greystreet @ Jan 16th 2008 11:01AM]

I talked to an Apple product guy today at MacWorld who told me definitively that all language subtitles are supported for movies with the new Apple TV software. This is better than what you can do with Quicktime on the Mac today. For example, if you use Handbrake to rip a DVD you can not see subtitles with Quicktime on the Mac but need to use VLC or something like that to view them. I was not able to actually see a demo of this but I believe that he knew exactly what I was inquiring about. This would mean that you can see subtitles for all supported languages in movies that are rented, purchased or are "your own" when viewed via Apple TV. This is a good thing for folks who like to see subtitles.

[harsaphes @ Jan 15th 2008 7:04PM]

you CAN rent standard def movies from Itunes to play on your PC, Ipod, Iphone ect, just not hd films.

[FearlessFreep @ Jan 15th 2008 7:21PM]

Well - they had me interested. But as the other reviewer said, I'll stick with the Blu-ray/HD-DVD combo drive and Blockbuster for now.