Okay, try not to let your mind get blown by the possible time-space paradox we're about to illustrate, but MSI's supposedly introducing a new
ECOlution motherboard at CeBIT with an "air powered cooler" that operates on the Stirling Engine Theory to transform the thermal output of its chipset into the kinetic energy necessary to power that same chipset's fan. Of course, as the fan cools the heatsink it deprives itself of energy, supposedly the piston affixed to the crankshaft pulls back down, giving it another potential surge when its heat rebuilds. Supposedly it works at 70% efficiency, so we'll just let the thermodynamics geeks in the audience mull over the possibility and audacity of it all -- they certainly seem to have given up on
Steorn at this point.
Update: CG video demo posted after the break, via
TweakTown. Thanks, Lin.
posted Feb 29th 2008 at 3:31AM
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
soviet_vexxer @ Feb 29th 2008 3:40AM
wow this is a duhhh idea. i dont see any practical use for desktops but if this could be made small enough for laptops better battery life is a sure thing.
soviet_vexxer @ Feb 29th 2008 3:41AM
wow i've never been the first to post.
Brian @ Feb 29th 2008 3:42AM
The idea that every watt is valuable is what is important, here.
Anandtech has a great article on three and four gpu systems, and many budget enthusiasts with 500W PSU's aren't going to be able to keep up. Dual ATI x2's will suck up nearly 550W's, alone. Add that to the 130W quadcore processor, and you're going to need an 800W PSU just to meet the minimum req.
DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 29th 2008 3:45AM
wow your comment is a duhhh idea. i don't see any trace of common sense on it
//Doing the same work but using less energy is always good, no matter what soviet_vexxer thinks
soviet_vexxer @ Feb 29th 2008 3:48AM
brian-nice name btw
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/186
every watt matters HAHA
DanWilso @ Feb 29th 2008 3:51AM
How great would the temperature fluctuations be? If the chip has to heat up and cool down many times a second what adverse effects would this have on the life of the chip?
soviet_vexxer @ Feb 29th 2008 3:52AM
@darklight
for what this will cost why not use something better for a desktop. laptops arent always connected to a wall.
soviet_vexxer @ Feb 29th 2008 3:57AM
whoops found a better psu.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/ultra-products-unveils-2000-watt-x3-atx-power-supply/
DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 29th 2008 4:01AM
You're right on the laptop part, but I think it also makes sense on a desktop...
Not that you will save alot of money being this on it's early stages (maybe later, when it's super-ultra-mass produced), it's just for technological advance's sake.. letting energy out into nothing _while_ you could recover it and do something useful with it is just not right
soviet_vexxer @ Feb 29th 2008 4:14AM
darklight i agree i guess you're thinking of mid to low end while i was thinking of high end. this would be cool on those green pc's as well.
Kornation @ Feb 29th 2008 10:00AM
This is pure genius design, and your 1,100watt power supply isnt what this is about.
Taking a fan out of your pc reduces the electricity used, in turn saving energy.
Ok so this will save $1/£0.50 a year, but times that by 10million pcs, thats a lot of energy saved.
A little product that saves little but affects a LOT of people are better than one product that helps just the 5 people that can afford it.
BTW, apart from when your gaming/video editing, when do you need a quadcore 8gig ramm dual GPU rig? you dont, i have 2 pcs, one for gaming & one for everything else, saves me around £2 a week in electric.
Brian @ Feb 29th 2008 3:40AM
That's just plain cool. I want to see more of this on *every* motherboard that doesn't come with waterblocks.
Andir3.0 @ Feb 29th 2008 8:07AM
hell, even include it with the water block boards... let the engine pump the fluid if possible. ;) I've never played with a sterling. Not sure how much "oomph" it has.
Clockwork @ Feb 29th 2008 9:08AM
stirling engines of good build quality have quite some power. i had one for about 50$ and i got to about 70RPM with a nice fan on it. plus they would self regulate because it depends on the heat of the cpu so the hotter it gets the faster it will go. i think this is really clever and stirling engines are far move more efficient than most engines.
i just hope people arent just going to discard this great idea in the simple and clever but not appealing to dumb people pile...
DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 29th 2008 3:41AM
Clever.
letstakeawalk @ Feb 29th 2008 3:45AM
This reminds me of those little fans you can sit on the top of a wood stove. A Stirling engine, I think?
letstakeawalk @ Feb 29th 2008 3:47AM
I should read the article first. They discuss it in there, don't ya know!
Mike10010100 @ Feb 29th 2008 6:10AM
I wonder one thing, did they think of using a fan powered by the Seebeck Effect? Seems like it would be more efficient.
Timerider @ Feb 29th 2008 3:44PM
Exactly, it's just a Stirling engine on a processor. Not that revolutionary. But a good application.
Dominic @ Feb 29th 2008 9:28AM
It looks like a toilet
kakapo @ Feb 29th 2008 4:08AM
What I find interesting is that the heat is still kept inside the "box" until some other cooling system moves it outside the box. It has always been my query as to why keep the box hot?
I have developed a cooling system that is powered by the heat from the processor but the heat is converted to electricity and powers a cooling pump which then pumps a cooling liquid to a vented system that is outside of the "box" and any extra electricity is used to power my 52" LCD TV and entertainment system. Plus holiday lights!!! ... ;)
If you believe that then I have some swamp land in Nevada to sell you!
I think this will only do enough of a job to allow your processor to overheat and fry. I need more data to actually see if this will work in a real life situation as opposed to a Sim Life computer!
Cheers!
Jason Davidson @ Feb 29th 2008 4:43AM
the blog-commenting geniuses of the internet have spoken. shut this project down. these developers of new technology obviously have no idea what they are doing and have wasted everyones time.
Didou @ Feb 29th 2008 6:46AM
I think this system is here to cool the Northbridge/Southbridge chips, not the CPU. RTFA.
ScooterDe @ Feb 29th 2008 6:51AM
how much for that swamp?
asphixiated @ Feb 29th 2008 4:09AM
if we could get one of these in a via motherboard (like the one in the ars article), we could have one sweet green machine.
Shinigami @ Feb 29th 2008 4:26AM
Wow nice. The hotter the CPU the faster it spins, right?
Wrong. The hotter the CPU the sooner the BSOD comes :D
I really hope they won't burn too many processors with this till they realize this CPU cooler is just not enough.
Ok, we save some power (and a bit of nature, probably, since its sooo green power) by not using CPU cooler's wattage.
How do you think, would turning off the PC for the night save more power (duh, more nature?) than this cooler?
Now the ultimate question: how many wood you need to chop down and burn to make enough electricity for the factory which makes these "green" coolers? I think not making them at all will save more power (nature?)... Being totally green doesn't make you small green presidents though.
Just my humble opinion.
Carl @ Feb 29th 2008 4:31AM
This is a northbridge chipset cooler, NOT a cpu cooler.
Shinigami @ Feb 29th 2008 5:05AM
Sorry, my mistake.
bob @ Feb 29th 2008 5:46AM
Your just a fucking idiot.
What do you think that current cpu coolers grow on trees, that they currently take no engery to create. Do you actually believe what you write or is it just coming out your arse.
Without people like the Wright brothers we wouldnt have flight, do you know taht people dont fly using they're first idea. Did you know that they're first idea was a failure. It has to start somewhere. They can improve, its a good idea.
Wwhat @ Feb 29th 2008 6:07AM
Hmm, you are onto something bob, a perpetuum mobile, put trees under a movable glass and let them grow and they push the glass and we got free energy!
(glass because the sun is needed obviously)
It's a very very VERY slow engine though.
Actually if you use algea in a large tank with a cylinder on the end it's faster I guess.
Shinigami @ Feb 29th 2008 6:21AM
Instead of buying a motherboard with a green cooler, plant a tree. One million trees is still greener :D
Mike @ Feb 29th 2008 11:23AM
Or you could do both!
Aaron @ Feb 29th 2008 4:26AM
Genius
Rynth @ Feb 29th 2008 4:26AM
This is a great idea, its about time someone used it.
kakapo @ Mar 4th 2008 7:52AM
you obviously do not see sarcasm when you read it....
just need more data...
..|..
Klaas @ Feb 29th 2008 4:50AM
What are you going to save with this, 1 or 2 watts maybe?
Shinigami @ Feb 29th 2008 5:06AM
0.1 watt. Will burn more power to produce it than it ever saves...
Generic @ Feb 29th 2008 5:35AM
Everybody seems to be getting it the wrong way. The CPU needs to be at a certain temperature range to function efficiently. This temperature is not the same for humans. We like it to be cooler, but we are not CPUs.
So for a CPU, the slight temperature drop is great. Chilling the CPU is bad and will require more energy to move the electrons (or holes for the physics guys) around the CPU. Please don't tell me that overclocked systems need to be chilled because I know that and this doesn't apply here.
As for the green side of this topic, one million computers saving 1 Watt each = 1 MegaWatt. Not bad at all.
P.S. the article is about a particular chipset but still applies to any chips not fried yet.
Wwhat @ Feb 29th 2008 6:02AM
That's why so many people don't use their indicators in traffic, it's only 0.1 watts but think of the savings when everybody doesn't use them ;)
Andir3.0 @ Feb 29th 2008 8:09AM
Damn, and here I thought it was lack of turn signal fluid.
Hung @ Feb 29th 2008 5:45PM
@ Generic
No offense, but it sounds like you're taking this the wrong way.
(1) This is not a CPU cooler. The picture shows a fan with a footprint too small for current processors. It'll probably cool the Northbridge/Southbridge, which usually don't need a lot of cooling.
"The CPU needs to be at a certain temperature range to function efficiently. This temperature is not the same for humans." —Generic
(2i) What?! That's definitely the other way around. I don't know about you, but we humans function best at 98.6°F.
"Chilling the CPU is bad and will require more energy to move the electrons (or holes for the physics guys) around the CPU." —Generic
(2ii) CPUs follow the typical physics of metals. Conductivity is inversely proportional to temperature, no exceptions. As a metal (or any substance) approaches absolute zero, the electric conductivity rises. Have you heard of superconductivity? Frozen, compressed helium would conduct better than room-temperature copper. The optimal temperature for energy efficiency and operating conditions is as low as possible (but above 0 K!).
Also, why are you talking about holes? Only when physicists write text books to explain why the current is visualized as running opposite the electron path are holes talked about. K.I.S.S!
And just a note to everyone: The northbridge normally doesn't need active cooling. Even in high-end boards, it'll use the ambient breeze from the CPU fan. Some high-performance-for-price (GA-P35-DS3L *AHEM*) sacrifice quality in that regard and the northbridge doesn't effectively wick away heat, but whatever.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059
Wwhat @ Mar 1st 2008 12:56AM
Northbridge does need cooling, this is 2008 and the damn things are starting to draw more juice than the CPU, and also start to become more expensive than CPU's to boot.
nih @ Feb 29th 2008 5:12AM
The main point here is heat is being removed and turned into mechanical energy, you might as well remove the fan.
Unfortunately I find it hard to believe the process is anything more than a gimmicky. It's a giant mechanical heatsink with a novelty fan on it.
ameridian @ Feb 29th 2008 12:58PM
The fan blows across the heatsink. Can't imagine that does anything useful ...
nih @ Feb 29th 2008 1:20PM
Yeah, because spinning once or twice every ten seconds is going to help. Or perhaps I'm forgetting The Magic Of the Stirling Engine and Free Energy.
It's rubbish.
ameridian @ Feb 29th 2008 2:06PM
Discover the magic of google video and Stirling engines that spin continuously.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4654319024851860269&q=stirling+engine+hand&total=28&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3
nih @ Mar 1st 2008 12:31AM
That's good, pretend I said something I didn't. I'm bagging the whole concept, not your boner for stirling engines. Faked free energy is still faked.
It seems pretty obvious that if the CPU can safely reach the kinds of temperatures to drive a fan at anywhere near normal fan speeds, you might as well get rid of the fan.
The key point here is that energy is lost along the way to friction, inefficient heat capture, etc. at a high rate. Hence the fan being useless showy guff.
ameridian @ Mar 1st 2008 10:07AM
Why would you try to speed up the fan by putting more heat into it?
There's no reason why you can't use gearing to speed up the fan.
You say this design is too inefficient to gain any benefit, yet when
you are using an electric fan you have 100% inefficiency because all
this heat energy is being wasted. Most of us drive to work using a
thermodynamic engine every day, I think you underestimate their
abilities. There is no free / fake energy here .. there is heat
energy and a mechanism for turning it into mechanical energy.
There's little difference between what this does and a steam engine
.. it's not some miracle machine.
XDS @ Feb 29th 2008 5:14AM
I guess in the end it will all come down to how fast and how efficient the design is for this type of energy distribution.
/sarcasm And knowing how we all just KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW MSI is the GREATEST at making efficient product this should be great! \sarcasm
< sigh >
Seriously though its going to come down to just how much the fan will spin and with what amount of heat.
I give em credit for being the first though.
Clockwork @ Feb 29th 2008 9:21AM
iv seen sterling engines that will run by simply placing them on your hand. the difference of about 2 or 3 degrease centigrade is enough, and these engines arent even of great build quality. it would be hard to run a cpu on this but a north/southbridge would allow for a good cooling system that stands alone and that is quite effective when the temperature disparity is of 50°C. plus just by simply turning the engine it would take away some head from the engine, let alone with a heat-sink and a fan...