Poulsen Hybrid car conversion kit takes aim at X-Prize, your wallet
By Donald Melanson 
posted May 8th 2008 2:48PM
posted May 8th 2008 2:48PM
While most of the Automotive X-Prize entrants are vehicles built from the ground up for maximum gas mileage, Poulsen Hybrid's entry takes a considerably different tact, with it consisting simply of a kit that can be attached to any old car. That kit consists of two hybrid electric motors with rare earth permanent magnets that (as you can see above) are mounted on the outside of the vehicle, which are tied to a 72V 120Ah Deep Cycle Lead Acid battery pack on the inside. According to Poulsen, once installed, the system effectively turns a front-wheel drive car into an all-wheel drive car, and results in a driving "effect" that is " equivalent to freewheeling down a 3% grade," with the accelerator needing to be depressed less or not at all to keep the car moving. Also unlike most other X-Prize competitors, Poulsen intends to make its kit available to the general public in the not to distant future, and for the relatively bargain price of $3,300, no less (add an extra $600 to that if you don't think you're up to installing it yourself).
[Via Autoblog Green]
[Via Autoblog Green]
This looks like a solution I could afford...
Expect that thing to be stolen soon after installation
@tom
Just paint it orange, everyone will think it's a boot
@tom:
Who the hell is going to steal hub motors? (nature loving criminals?)
What the hell are they going to do with them anyways?
Will it hit 88 mph?
Now, we're just one step closer, anyone making a MR.FUSION?
Criminals are not dumb, they simply take them out and sell it for profits. Zero cost, 100% profits, very lucrative.
With the expensive gas price, some dude actually modify his truck and suck out all the diesel from gas stations in Quebec. Eventually that guy is caught. Isn't that smart?
Zero cost? You mean you walk by a car with one of these and it just kinda falls in your backpack?
he said zero cost not zero effort
@tom I doubt this would be worth much at all without the complete package.
How many Prius's get stolen?
If work costs nothing, I guess I get something for nothing every day. Wonder why they don't catch on and stop paying me, but I'm not gonna complain.
effort is a subset of cost.
Well.... it's no hover conversion kit, but I guess it's a start. Kinda adds that b2tf2 feel doesn't it?
...for only $39,999.95! So come on down!
So what if your car is rear-wheel drive and/or already AWD?
Because we all know front wheel drive is the work of the devil!
The website says it works equally well with RWD and AWD vehicles.
Do want, but for my F150.
It solves the problem of someone in a Prius hitting a kid on a bike in the middle of the road because "their car was silent". Put it on a Jetta TDI :).
Is that a widespread problem?
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/08/its-happened-boy-hit-by-hybrid-mom-blames-quiet-running/
E, hope you won't mind me linking, it's your sister site after all :)
(The car depicted in the photo IS a Jetta TDI)
Sweet. I'm pimpin out my Mustang with that..........NOT
Finally something to actually make a Mustang look good!
Won't this introduce stresses and thus excessive wear and tear on components that were not intended to be part of a drivetrain or to support extra weight (the rear wheel bearings and the rear suspension, for instance)?
Seems like a good idea, but my concern is whether or not it will actually increase your gas mileage, since you're also adding 200-300 lbs. to the weight of the car.
Theft seems like it would be a major problem too.
Adding 10% more weight to your vehicle should be out paced with the fuel economy gained, otherwise it's of no benefit to you.
Most of todays smaller vehicles are 3000 lbs or more due to safety regulations.
If this lets me into the HOV lane as the only driver, I think it would save me tons of time idling in certain areas throughout my commute.
Being stolen would require either the complete vehicle stolen, or just the hub motors, I would imagine chrome rims being stolen before these.
Here is the kind of thinking we need! Do more with what you have. We have cars, how can we make them better? This may not be the better mousetrap yet, but it's a great start in a new direction.
I'm sure they thought of this.....but if you dont need to press the gas pedal to go, how do you get it to stop?
I would assume it knows when you're braking, and will then turn from a motor to a generator to recharge itself using the inductive force of the magnets on your wheel :)
I think the intent is that the motor is always on and you press the brakes to stop the vehilce (expect a little more wear and tear on the brakes). A very interesting stop-gap concept...though i would prefer seeing hard numbers on how much benefit you actually get
Pressing the brake pedal may be? lol
When you press your brakes, I would imagine it switches to a regeneration mode, just uses your existing brake light wiring as a sensor.
This doesn't have to be very complicated at all, almost like a tow trailer with a battery and hub motors for wheels :]
Remember, your automatic doesn't stop either when it's in drive. Drive in automatic is always trying to go so this won't increase wear anymore than your automatic transmission does.
Hey look it's my car! Minus the obnoxious boot-looking thing on it... Kudos for creativity tho.
I don't know how well this particular product performs but the mere idea of an add-on is worth an award to me. If someone can make a "cheap" add on that works well, that would rock.
Maybe the IRS could give us a deduction for buying this thing or for using it every year.
It's name was Hybrid Poulsen.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
how's that working out for you?
;)
s/tact/tack/g
s/g//
I'm putting that on my Civic Hybrid to make it cost as much as (and get the mileage of) a Prius.
Your Honda gets the same mileage on the highway as a Prius.
The hwy mileage differs by 8 mpg... does the Prius have a better electric motor than the Honda Civic or is it all regenerative braking?
BTW -- I'm in the market for ONE of these, but I will probably wait for the next Prius (Spring 2009)... supposed to start at $21K and get better mpg.
Sorry... CITY mileage is lower in the Civic, not highway
Exactly how strong are these magnets? I'd hate to have to get out of the car every time a bicycle got stuck to my back tire. I guess the cyclist wouldn't be too pleased either.
$3,300 seems a bit steep for these motors. It's a pretty simple setup that you can build yourself if you buy the right parts.
The first thing I thought of was "how do I put air in the tire with that on it" but they put a valve extension in the drawing that doesn't look like it made it on the prototype.
Each motor gives 7hp which would be great for adding power on the highway but I really worry about throttle control and what these things will do to the safety of the car. They would have to increase braking distances and are probably not the most responsive things. I also worry aboout hurting your car's transmission and engine with the extra push that doesn't come from the inside. Something is going to burn out.
The best application would be a FWD car on the highway. You would just thrown the car into neutral and let these wheel motors propel you once you get to speed. 120Ah isn't going to get you very far though.
7HP=5220W. So let's say these are 100% efficient. 72Vx120Ah=8640Wh. Divide it by two (since we're running two motors). 4320Wh/motor. Divide it by 5220, it's 0.82 hours (49 minutes) per motor on one battery.
Two large 7HP DC motors probably cost at least a grand (for the pair) if not more by themselves... Once you add in the custom parts that needed to be designed and machined, the batteries, motor drivers and other electronics, and allow the company to recoup R&D costs while still making a profit, $3300 is cutting it close. No offense, but you must not run a business.
-Taylor
That's some good calculating there Lou!
Taylor,
A company in India put together a whole car and is selling it for $2500 and still making a profit. You'd get more for your money with that than spending $3300 on these hub motors.
All of the R&D on these motors has been done for a long time. All they did was modify the motor so it can be attached to a wheel hub with an adapter plate and add a torque arm. Not exactly a lot of money there.
You'll probably end up with more than $3000 in repair bills for your car due to the car not being designed for use with this system.
You haven't made an especially coherent argument as to _why_ this will cause your car to need repair bills.
14 hp / (3000 lbf * 55 mph) = 0.0318181818
That's a 3% grade (as they said).
So do you destroy your car by driving down 3% grades? by stopping on them? by reversing up them?
The most likely way of damaging the car is pulling the bumper off, if they're not attached to the frame/unibody properly...
Beyond the efficiency and aesthetic issues... what about functionality/geometry. This thing could have serious issues in adapting to certain rear suspension designs. Until I see some good pictures of how the whole system is put together, I have to believe you could run into some serious problems with suspension bind.
My first thought was, "Do you really think people will drive something ugly just to have green cred?"
Then I remembered what a Prius looked like.
In all seriousness, though, this actually seems like a cool idea. I wonder what the actual MPG savings are.
At $4 a gallon and rising, i think the next ten years will see people going a GREAT lengths to save gas (and money), not just look green. I am kind of worried about this stuff actually, as my car isn't very efficient and it uses premium... :(
-Taylor
You're not very green are you?
In reality, we could all be running our vehicles on Cannabis oil.
But NOOOOOO. LOL.
Vegetable Oil is still legal. Try that.
Cannabis oil ey?
Hey that's a good idea, instead of incinerating all the stuff from drug busts process it for fuel!
Just don't be surprised if you see people at the back of their cars with smoking devices attached to the exhaust :)
Do I need an extra motor for my spare :)
If you put it on a prius, you get infinite MPG!
But be careful parking the car too close to the curb... "Careful, honey... CAREFUL! CRUNCH... DOOHHHH!!!"
This system wins purely on simplicity and cost. It may not provide the best results, but the fact that it can be adapted to almost any car on the road and is within the budget of many drivers makes it the most viable xprize option I've seen so far....and that is what the competition is really about.
If this system can get you 15-20% better fuel economy around town, it might be worth a shot.
Can a plastic bumper really withstand the torque from that motor?
I really hope this is not attached to the bumper, more like a tow package instead.
This is a brilliant idea, and great to see something different.
Can this setup provide different amout of torque to each wheel? If not, then turning may be tricky/dangerous (think differential),unless I'm missing something here...
The difference between torque and speed?
A differential (standard, not limited-slip) applies the same torque to both wheels. That's why when one wheel slips in a slushy spot (dramatically reducing the torque), you lose forward thrust; the torque on the wheel that could push you has to be the same.
Actually, these won't give equal torque, so this would really be rather handy for winter driving. That 7 hp when only one wheel is making good contact would help sometimes.
What happens when you put it in reverse?
Good luck changing a flat tire.
So much for your brakes.
Remind me to pick up some iron powder, lots of it.
This seems excellent! I could honestly see this company mass producing these, especially with the climbing cost of fuel.
I wonder if they put more money towards this, if they could engineer it to be on the inside of the wheels, like between your rotor and your rim.
I also found these interesting links to increase the gas mileage,
http://www.water4gas.com/2books.htm
http://www.auto-facts.org/water4gas-scam.html
http://www.water4gasripoff.com/
Oh, wow, I can turn water into water, magically powering my perpetuum mobile... Where do I sign up?
Seriously, though, water injection (into a gasoline engine running on gasoline) can do a lot of good for fuel economy.
I'd wager that on 90%+ of cars on the road having a system that goes between the rotor and wheel will never work.
Their real best bet would be to develop several different "basic" systems designed around a variety of different rear suspension and drivetrain configurations. For instance... one system designed to work with a indpendent rear suspension and front wheel drive, one system for a torsion beam suspension and front wheel drive, one system for a leaf sprung solid axle suspension and rear wheel drive, etc. Then make the systems extremely modular so that they could be easily adapted to fit the specific vehicle.
Of course doing this would mean a much larger investment in time and resources. The solution would be much better than the monstrosity displayed here, I just don't know if the company has the means to tackle such an undertaking.
Grammar nazi: "not to distant future"; should be "not too distant future" (last paragraph).
But I don't want to distant the future, either!
i heard this older person on the bus say that, "nothing cheap is good, nothing good is cheap." I never even heard of this company.
When I had a FWD car (with a worn out transmission), I thought since the rear wheels only do is help with the breaking and keep the back end from scraping the pavement, why not put electric motors on these wheels make the car a hybrid.
I see others have thought the same thing as me. This version is much simpler than mine.
I wish I could materialize my ideas.
hub motors, control wiring, recharger, adapter plates, and batteries for only $3,000 - that's a good deal.
And the Lithium Ion version is $6,000.
Gotta read the manufacturer's website directly though, they're not making claims, but they are changing the thinking involved.
It's like adding a traction motor to your bicycle wheel.
Well done Poulsen, I'd like to see this delivered to market.
"Poulsen Hybrid's entry takes a considerably different tact"
Tack, not tact. The term originates from sailing. Tact isn't even remotely the right word.
Sigh...it's just too good to be true I'm afraid.
I can see it now.... you're out on a rainy day with one of these things installed on your car and you get a flat rear tire. The bolts of the poulsen hybrid system are rusted fast and you can't get it to come off... which is good, because if you'd have gotten if off right away it may have been too hot to touch. You go to change the tire, realize that the spare is flat (of course), get a ride to a gas station to inflate the spare, get a ride back, and reinstall the tire. Now it's time to get the poulsen unit back on - it's still raining, keep in mind......
Think it will fit on my HUEG PS3?
With all the money you save with the improved mileage, get AAA, and let them change these flat tires. I have had 2 flat tires my entire life. If thing greatly improves the MPG, I'll gladly deal with the flat tire situation.
Regarding the looks? Let people laugh while you laugh all the way to the bank. Who cares what it looks like? It appears that once again, necessity is the mother of invention.
Well if you don't want to spend $3,300 for this kit there is always the option of HHO (water) hybrid kits you can always install for like $300 bucks. Just as effective of better i think and saw some kits and information on how to get the kits at http://www.convert2hybrid.com
I think it's better than having to charge batteries for an electric motor.
I agree with Taylor, Gas prices will hit a high very soon. The only solution is to convert your car into a hybrid. There are kits available http://www.convert2hybrid.com