Microsoft to appeal $1.35B EU antitrust fine

Microsoft's no stranger to appealing antitrust decisions before the European Commission's Court of the First Instance, and it looks like it's saddling up for another go 'round: the software giant has decided to appeal that $1.3B antitrust fine handed down in February. Saying that it was only filing as part of a "constructive effort to seek clarity from the court," Microsoft has asked that the decision be annulled. Yeah, that seems pretty clear. As always, our suggestions that this be resolved with a GTA IV / CoD4 round-robin deathmatch on Live have gone unheeded in favor of tedious paperwork and months of delay, but we're still holding out hope.

[Thanks, Hosain]

[Stupidiot @ May 9th 2008 2:41PM]

We're no strangers to... wat?

[Stupidiot @ May 9th 2008 2:47PM]

Also, I think Microsoft deserves this. GTA IV has been out for over a week, and I haven't been able to play it because my faulty POS console is in the repair shop (it's not even the RROD, so now I'm £60 worse off). Thanks a whole huggy bunch Microsoft.

[Pochi @ May 9th 2008 2:57PM]

Pick up a PS3 with GTA IV and recoup the cost by selling your amber red nightlight when it gets back from the repair shop.

[Raheem @ May 9th 2008 2:59PM]

Shouldn't have crowded it. Let your console breatttttthe!

*waits for the obligatory...

"Actually for your information I had my console on a wind farm in the middle of an otherwise empty field with advanced water cooling system attached!!!!1111111oneoneoneone"

...yeah.*

[teej @ May 9th 2008 5:04PM]

@Raheem,

my console had a whole 2.5ft-wide shelf (7" clearance height) in an entertainment center, which is plenty of breathing room. i haven't played nearly as much as a lot of ppl (only a lot of Halo 3 for a couple months). yet, mine still red-ringed.

it's not a question of "if" it will RRoD; it's a question of "when."

i'm still a dedicated 360 supporter, and to be honest, i'm glad it rrod'd. iit happened back in early february, and i got it back later that month. until 5 days ago (GTA), i haven't played since the rrod. i went back outside and played sports and stuff (i'm 23, not 12), and it was rewarding.

[Raheem @ May 9th 2008 5:11PM]

Teej, explain why my LAUNCH DAY Premium and Elite (from Elite launch) have never EVER RRODd? The worst problem I've had is some freezing. I really can't understand how people say, "when," because I've never experienced it. In an entertainment centre by the way, the air is recycled.

[Stupidiot @ May 10th 2008 6:42AM]

I'll admit my console isn't kept in the best conditions, but based on the sheer number of consoles that fail (that and everyone I know with one has had it fail at least once) I'd say it's not really my fault, especially considering that all of my other games consoles have generally received much poorer treatment, and all function perfectly. And to Pochi, I already have a PS3, it's just that I far prefer the Xbox 360 control pad, and I wanted to be able to play the game online with my friends, who don't have a PS3 (with all the other benefits of Xbox Live). The Xbox to me is the better games console, it's just horribly unreliable.

[Pochi @ May 11th 2008 5:11PM]

"The Xbox to me is the better games console, it's just horribly unreliable."

Seems like that makes it the inferior console.

[brad @ May 9th 2008 2:43PM]

and what is the EU going to do with a billion dollars...honestly, MS isnt all that bad...sure they may need a slap on the hand now and again but a billion dollars? Thats larger than some countries GDP

[Alan Partridge @ May 9th 2008 3:01PM]

They've made lots of money through not complying with rulings on monopolistic business practices hence the big fine. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[Xavier Gill @ May 9th 2008 3:05PM]

Microsoft should should be grateful for the Billion Dollar fine as follwing the law and allowing competition would have cost them a lot more

[JAmerican @ May 9th 2008 2:47PM]

Settle it in a round of Cops n' Crooks in GTA IV Multiplayer :)

[Stupidiot @ May 9th 2008 2:52PM]

Stop taunting me!

[salut @ May 11th 2008 7:00PM]

Am I the only mother fucker that hasn't played GTA IV yet?

[Raheem @ May 9th 2008 3:00PM]

@ Pochi - then what would he play? An SD copy of GTA IV and not be able to access his friends list during games (cool man!) or erm... erm... Warhawk?

[Homeboy @ May 9th 2008 3:24PM]

The solution:

Halo 2
Battle creak
10 players(5 lawyers from each camp)
Capture the flag
Sword + shotgun + rocket launcher
15 minutes

or

Counter Strike Source
Pool day
20 players
30 min per session.

[LJKelley @ May 9th 2008 3:19PM]

I still don't get it... consumers and businesses have been free to choose Apple Mac Os for years as well as Linux. I mean this isn't a fine about things that happened before 2005 but a fine that Microsoft didn't uphold the ruling (which was not very specific and appearently written by people that don't understand what exactly it is they want for Microsoft since they have to technical expertise).

As far as I'm concerned Microsoft is not a monopoly nor has been one. You can choose Linux or OS X and Open Office will open every MS Document and now MS has moved to open standards and shedding the old .doc format. As a Developer that uses Visual Studio, I don't see where anyone can claim that Microsoft intentionaly hurts outside developers. And we don't see Apple being transparent about everything in OS X either. Again the point remains that consumers can choose

[Matias Korhonen @ May 9th 2008 3:58PM]

Just three points:

1) Neither Mac OS X nor Linux holds a dominate market position (Microsoft has, what, 90% of the desktop market). Thus the obscurity on the internal workings of Windows reduces the appeal of any alternative OS that does not play nice with windows.

2a) Open Office doesn't and never will open a doc file perfectly as any support for it had to be reverse engineered.

2b) Microsoft's idea of an open standard is a unintelligible 6000 page document riddled with patented bits and sections relating to the internal functioning of Office 2007. When was the last time you read (let alone understood) a 6000 page document written by some eclectic mix of engineers, programmers and lawyers?

3) If developers can't develop compatible alternatives, in the end it is the consumer who is harmed by Microsoft's deliberate obfuscation.


--
"To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail"
- Mark Twain

http://www.draco-vulgaris.net

[Lyokia @ May 10th 2008 5:18PM]

Seriously...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the suit about the bundling of Microsoft software with Windows?

.Tiff files, Quicktime files give people trouble plenty of time. Just recently a student gave a presentation in which they saved all their files as .tiff. Apple pushes Safari, Microsoft IE. Apple iTunes, Microsoft Windows Media Player. Even external hard drive formats are a pain.

Each company has their own stuff that they dig their hands into that they want their customers to use.

Even when you go to download Quicktime, the first (and automatic option) includes iTunes.

[Tyson @ May 9th 2008 3:35PM]

They should just stop selling their products there and see who lasts longer. Sure they will take a hit, but the euros will be f-ucked without windows office xbox etc

[YoMomma @ May 9th 2008 3:42PM]

thats a good idea.

[ps @ May 9th 2008 4:20PM]

Especially the xbox is crucial for european economy.

[Paul @ May 10th 2008 12:36AM]

Sorry, but Microsoft needs Europe more than Europe needs Microsoft.

In the real world, there are a couple scenarios

1. Microsoft cuts all sales to Europe. Europe starts buying all macs, causing Apple's stock to skyrocket. Macs get a serious foothold in some seriously large markets. Apple is now back in the mainstream consumer game.

2. Microsoft cuts all sales to Europe. Europe, sick of being run around by bigger companies makes Linux / Unix the operating system of choice since it only has a license that says you need to keep it free. This will lead to a major investment of time and money in open source computing spurring an incredible growth in desktop linux.

MS is essentially screwed if it cuts sales, so that means MS has only 2 real options:

1. Delay paying the fine through long court battles which then force them to pay the fine + late payments for the fine.
2. Just pay the fine.

Overall I would say given how much MS is worth, if you just slap them with a $500,000 fine your not really going to make them twitch, but a $1.35 billion fine is going to attract some serious attention.

Kinda like how if Bill Gates gets a $200 speeding ticket its a drop in the bucket, he just gives them some of his toilet paper, but if I get that same $200 speeding ticket I am living off ramen noodles for a week.

[Tyson @ May 10th 2008 1:08AM]

Yeah that works well but the first think you learn in business school is if the cost of doing business is greater than your profits then its time to stop doing business. And someone is going to say they make much more, sure but this is not the first time the EU imposed sanctions. If they keep fining you every ten years it gets expensive.

Microsoft has a much better bargaining position then you give them credit for. Macs (and I am using a Macbook pro to type this) are not prevalent and are going to replace pcs. 1. infastructure cost, who is going to pay to change all their systems? 2. Applications Mac does not have as many applications, most come out after pc app and Apple places an extortion hold on developers, unlike open pcs. Do you think the EU will stand for that, then do you think Stevo will do business when they force him to play their game? He is extorting ATT for iphone royalties for god stakes. 3.You can't use mac os in most businesses law firms or even on bar exams(I know from experience). Most places are windows operations. Is europe going to cut itself off from the pc using world. 4 Who is going to train the whole european workforce on mac and or lynx? 5. Who is going to foot the bill to start up this new tech company (google) to create an os word processor etc distribute it, play under euro rules etc. Sounds like a risky investment.

And sure xbox is not the end all be all but its also a part. I am sure for the 3 360 fanboys in europe it will be a sad day when they can't get any new stuff, especially exclusive stuff.

While european courts do no operate on stare decisis, everyone knows that if you let a bully hit you he will continue to do it. Thats why japanese companies never settle cases. You can vote me down if you want but the truth is (unfortunately because they have such market power) Europe needs Ms just as much as if not more than vice versa. What if they then say hey hp, dell whoever we are going to make life hard on you if you do business in europe. Oh it gets more difficult. But i am sure that europe will just develop its own complete technology industry over night with the tons of capital and parts they have in surplus.

[Hamurabi @ May 9th 2008 3:49PM]

We pay Microsoft for Windows and Microsoft takes our money and send it to Europe in Billions. No wonder people don't trust Microsoft.

[Xtort @ May 9th 2008 4:56PM]

So... You think people don't trust Microsoft because the (EU) uses it's lawyers to fund a great deal of their government by suing the crap out of Microsoft on a regular basis?

[generally @ May 9th 2008 4:00PM]

This lawsuit is probably about something different, but I remember Microsoft being sued awhile back. The basis was that they bundled Internet Explorer with Windows, giving it monopoly over the competition.

How the id that happen when I could download Netscape at the same time for free?

[Marc Mitchell @ May 9th 2008 4:17PM]

hahahahahahahah ow man, dont contest it , you will only make it worse.. they will double the fine.. how many nails are needed to seal a coffin ? coz microsoft, i think you got enough now.

[tekdroid @ May 9th 2008 4:57PM]

"As always, our suggestions that this be resolved with a GTA IV / CoD4 round-robin deathmatch on Live have gone unheeded in favor of tedious paperwork and months of delay, but we're still holding out hope."
-----------
Pfff. That's 'cause you gotta relate to the stiffs. 20 rounds of Monopoly would have gone down far better with far less head-scratching.

[cureholder @ May 9th 2008 8:06PM]

Oh, to be Bill Gates for a day. I would have a big press conference at which I would have the EU a giant facsimile check for $1.35 billion.

Then I would read a short statement in which I would announce that MS is pulling all business and service from the EU in its entirety, starting tomorrow.

See whom the Europeans think they need more, MS or their stupid fascist governments.

[Kizorblade @ May 9th 2008 10:34PM]

Well, it's a good thing you're not running MS then.

[d0od @ May 10th 2008 12:07AM]

dumb ass american!

The EU is fair and not in any way fascist - it has the ideals of the European citizens as it's interest, and to say "Microsoft should pull it's products would mean financial ruin for Microsoft dumb ass! Believe it or not, America isn't the only country! [thank fuck!] I would be happy for Microsoft to fuck off when all it's doing is stifling competition - it has market share so should be more receptive to competition - competition drives development matey!

[Tyson @ May 10th 2008 1:18AM]

I agree Europe needs MS more than MS needs euro. They shouldn't get pushed round by a bully. I had to read this whole case for Antitrust class and its about being able to push around a big company and the EU feeling they are too dependent on an american company not competition. The US has strong competition laws as do other countries. I have studied law on 4 continents(N &S America, Asia, and Europe) I should know. How i it that Microsoft has brought itself into compliance with all of these places but the EU still has a problem?

@d0od America i not the only country but its bigger than al of Europe combined and here is a news flash America and the europeans are not the only counties either. there are little places like China, Japan, Korea, Australia, Singapore, Canada, Mexico New Zealand, Russia etc where Microsoft could peddle their products.

[Jamar @ May 11th 2008 2:47AM]

Yes, but if Europe goes Mac or Linux that's an enormous boost to marketshare- widespread acceptance in Europe would cause either to actually be taken seriously as a competitor.

[Mark L. @ May 10th 2008 12:47AM]

Screw these fascist governments stealing from Americans.

[Tyson @ May 10th 2008 6:00PM]

I admit that the US economy is slowing and there are different totals for the EU GDP now that I look. However you all should feel really good that your 27 countries can compete with our 1 country. Unfortunately for your argument China, India and Vietnam are growing faster than than the EU and are far more important individually that all of the 27 countries of the EU combined. EU companies pay US fines because they want access to the US market, the largest in the world, home of the majority of fortune 1000 companies, we don't care as much about the other side of the pond.

[Paps @ May 10th 2008 5:34AM]

Well Well Well...

If microsoft should pull out of the EU as suggested before, the EU will simply has to finance the development (with the money earned from microsoft) of an European distro (could be linux, bsd, etc)...

Additionally, It is known that many countries don't like ms domination and if the EU should sponsor a linux distro for example I'm fairly confident that many countries and PC manufacturers will jump in as well...

And with the looming economic crisis in the US this could really be the "coup de grace" for the US economy and microsoft domination... In short, if they pull out the biggest losers will be microsoft and to some extent the US as they won't control the OS market as they were used to.

Not to mention that the EU economy as a whole is bigger than the US... If you don't believe it just google it...

[Tyson @ May 10th 2008 10:20AM]

No you are just wrong...

US economy = US $13.543 trillion or

EU economy= US $13.06 trillion

I don't know how you count but in the real world $13.543 trillion>$13.06 trillion. I am not throwing out wrong facts I am giving site to back it up.

If you think any government can just turn off Microsoft instantly you are dead wrong. The are billions of dollars in bounds to entry to the market not to mention, time loss, development costs, training cost, cost to swap out all of your old hardware etc. Whether you like it or not they are tuck with Microsoft until someone develops something comparable. And Microsoft is not footing the bill because they just don't pay the fine. You don't have jurisdiction over a corporation that doe not operate in your territory unless you are the US or NYS whose long arm statue can freeze your money soon as it hits the stock exchange.

[Tyson @ May 10th 2008 10:21AM]

Sorry the links didnt show up but you can simple go to wikipedia and the IMF thats where the facts came from.

[EvilEuropean @ May 10th 2008 10:38AM]

Except that the EU GDP is $16.830 trillion (EU wiki) not $13 trillion. Dont forget that the EU nations are now growing faster than the USA....so that gap will just get bigger.

Microsoft wont pull out of the EU, because regardless of the fine, they still make huge amounts of money in the EU! They were fined for breaking our laws, just as European companies are fined when breaking US laws.

I would say just deal with it and stop crying, but with the US economy tanking the way it is, I guess every little helps (the total sum is roughly 0.5% of the budget for the EU, which in turn is just under 1% of the GDP of EU).

[Tyson @ May 10th 2008 6:10PM]

Wiki EU economy= $13.06 trillion i am not pulling random numbers out of my head. But if you want to compare the combined economies of 27 countries some of which the US supports (Ie we provide germany with a military and defense) by all means you do that.

[Tyson @ May 10th 2008 6:07PM]

I admit that the US economy it crumbling under the fact that we have to support the whole world. How much aid does all of the EU give compared to our 1 country? I also admit that there are different numbers for the EU GDP. If you want to be proud of your number, I say thats fine, your 27 countries combined have slightly more than our 1 country. However, little places like China, India, and Vietnam are what are called emerging markets are are growing much faster than the EU and are far more important to any business. EU companies pay us fines because they want access to the biggest individual economy in the world and the majority of the fortune 1000. Our companies don't care as much about a dying continent full of monarchs and socialists.

[CarenioIJ @ May 10th 2008 9:40PM]

I don't know if you noticed, but engadget is a U.S. website, and all the people above with their google and wiki number, they are also a U.S. companies. I just think it's funny when you go around criticizing the U.S. and justifying your GREAT EU, while using the many U.S. tools and technologies to do that!

[Robert @ May 11th 2008 10:30AM]

The EU sucks...it will fall like the roman empire....these Europeans never learn from history...The EU should pay us a fine of billions, for starting useless world wars and for the loss of American life defending these back stabbing nations..The EU itself was formed because these nations recgonise that they suck alone...so all you proud readers from the EU who are commenting about your proud system of fairness...and your great growth, just remember this.....We run your shit, whether you like it or not, and we saved your asses...we OWN YOU.