Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer got on stage at D6 with Walt and Kara to talk... Microsoft, of course. While the company is still being rather coy about Windows 7 -- some have blamed loose lips early on in Vista development for saddling the OS with too high of expectations and making things difficult for developers -- they were nice enough to show off what Ballmer called "the smallest snippet" of Windows 7. The big reveal was multi-touch support, which utilizes technology developed by the Surface team. The taskbar seems to have been reworked a bit, and the demo was running live on a Dell
Latitude XT tablet. Apparently Microsoft is reworking the whole user interface with a multitouch experience in mind. Steve reiterated the "three years after Vista" mantra for availability. Not exactly earth-shattering, but we'll take what we can get at this point.
Update: Video added after the break. Enjoy! [Thanks, Dan Z.]
posted May 27th 2008 10:30PM
Why does this get a new story?
Because it's great news, a cool picture, and Paul Miller wanted to get in on the Windows 7 fun.
Because this is inside details about an OS that, within 6 months of release, will have a greater marketshare than all other non-microsoft OS's.
The idea that it will be moving to a multi-touch interface only gives wind to the possible devices that will be released that are going to be tailored for this OS (new consumer level LCDs that are built with multi-touch in mind, more hand-held devices that are "touch only", etc.). If the main interface of Win7 is touch based, then you can bet companies like HP and Dell are prepping up for this shift, or at least making their PC's ready for it.
So, this is news that warrants its own page.
Ruben, you make no sense, i was reffering to why did they make a new post when this is already in the liveblog?
LOL@Ruben pay a little attention
So is the shit that Apple announces in Engadget's live blog of their events.
This isnt anything new for Engadget.
Don't even get me started on the Apple crap that gets posted here...
Ruben... do you have stock in Microsoft? Your arguments for them are about business merit. I want a Microsoft that is technologically responsible to its customers who, well, basically HAVE to buy their software. They said themselves that they have a 27-to-1 lead over their nearest competitor... how about they show 27-to-1 progress?
Microsoft has made several advances here; I'm glad they are bringing it to the platform. I hope they don't stop there. There's some good WinFS stuff they've been promising for years that needs to get out of the vaporware stage. I hope they've brought in some good designers... they have to compete with Apple, who is bringing it with every release of their software.
I gotta say again.
Please stop being so nasty to Apple users. It is just not nice. They are mostly interested in surfing the web. Worse still, Mac users are mostly very young, a lot of them children. They don't have the same processing needs as the rest of us. An apple computer does what they need.
Moreover, they will not have used Vista, so there is again little point in making reference to it. For those of us that do use Vista, we know what it does. We do not need to convince these young people (and they are people, even if they are just kids), that Vista is this or that.
Stop it !!! Be nice.
@KEROLiUKAS
Why do deserve to believe that you are the holy man of the hour because you know where the REFRESH button is. Geez, even dead people can post first as long as they push that refresh button.
By the way, this isn't new news. It's just neat to see it in video.
http://www.aeroxp.org/index.php?categoryid=23&p2_articleid=164
Because it's MS, worship them, why not?
After all, who else could rehash old ideas and make billions off of them?
Why is everyone thinking that Windows 7 is just Vista + Multi-touch? How do you know if this is the only new feature in Win7? The thing is, you don't.
This demo was only showing a "snippet" of Windows 7. Microsoft NEVER claimed that this is the only thing changing in Windows 7. Just one thing.
People are really being hateful. If you're more concerned about reliability, under the hood stuff, and all the things that are NOT the user experience, than wait until the near launch of Windows 7 to find out.
There's no reason to assume Win7 is just this. MS is keeping hush-hush on Win7, and this detail should be breaking all of this at once.
@KCCBOY
"They don't have the same processing needs as the rest of us. An apple computer does what they need."
Yes, like run Vista faster than any other laptop from any major brand (Macbook Pro). Or process DNA sequencing data on an 8-core dual Xeon machine with 16GB of RAM (Xserver/ Mac Pro)
@kccboy2004: Hahaha. (It's funny 'cos it makes you look like a moronic troll....)
Cool as it is, I'm yet to be convinced of the benefits of touch on a laptop/desktop, or even a large tablet. It'd just be too tiring to move my whole arm rather than just my fingers... Is this the iPhone Effect, like we have the Wii Effect where everything suddenly needs to use accelerometer input whether it's appropriate or not? I'd be more excited if it looked like they were fixing some of the major problems with Vista, not just adding eye candy - although I guess that doesn't make a great demo.
I agree, why is this news, now. Everyone who reads Engadget knows, Apple didn't invent multi touch. But, they made it known. No company has made multi touch as known to the general public, that don't read Engadget, as Apple has done. People that see my iPhone, are still amazed at how "cool" multi touch is, no matter how many times they have seen it before.
This is another fine example of M$, taking something Apple brought out to the general public, and act like they created it. If M$ is so friggen good at innovating, you would of thought they would of included this functionality in the Tablet "BEFORE" Apple released the iPhone. That would of been innovative. That would make me believe M$ knows how to innovate.
Don't get me wrong, M$ is very smart at making money, but thats it. They don't innovate, they steal from, and buy other companies.
Orange Vista = Sexy
@bondsbw:
Understand my reasoning in the first comment i made. It is no doubt apparent that any Microsoft OS will sell in mass quantities, and will be included in nearly every PC that exists at stores and on web stores. Now take into account the possibility that Win 7 will use touch as its prominent feature and selling point. What that would mean is the need for hardware makers to make their hardware compatible with such a feature, so as to have the full experience of Win 7. Thats all i was trying to say.
For me personally, i really dont care. It would be interesting to play an RTS game with touch screen controls, and this would be awesome for a CarPC, but beyond that, i see very little use of this.
But my argument still stands. Vista forced hardware makers to upgrade their hardware (now PC's with 4GB of ram are common and some are under the $1000 mark). Win 7 might do the same, in terms of making touch screen LCD panels and touch screen laptops available to the masses, at an affordable price, and on every unit made, even those that dont have a touchscreen form factor. Thats all i was trying to say.
I read the initial comment incorrectly, as i insinuated that KEROLiUKAS was stating that this was not important enough to be its own post, but i felt it was, due to the arguments above.
I feel sorry for Microsoft developers, developers, developers. I hope they (ms) put more effort into creating a better, usable OS, than trying to impress us with more WOW crap. (like aero and flip).
@kcc
Most people who use macs use windows at work. That's why we get so zealous. We live in both worlds, Hell, and OSX.
As for processing needs, I'm lost. Most windows users aren't doing graphics, video, big science analysis--they're endlessly playing solitare or using Office. When they need processing power it's because of games--which is a childish endeavor, so who is the child now?
As pointed out before, The MacBook Pro runs Vista faster than any other manufacturer's machine. So, tell me again, what was that about processing needs?
Is it just me, or does the iPhone also support multi-touch...?
Also, remember the gorilla arm! ( http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html ) I'd be leery of any interface that requires a touch-screen, considering the sheer volume of hours I spend on a computer each day.
@rpflo - Although I agree with your post, I'd like to clarify that the MacBook Pro's status as the fastest laptop to run Vista was defeated on October 25, 2007.
@ kccboy2004
You obviously don't have the foggiest clue about what you're blabbing. My MacBook Pro has a 2.2 Ghz Core 2 Duo, and can run into the ground any other laptop I've come across (personally), and mine's out of date already!
You're a Windoze person and it shows. Maybe if you tried a Mac sometime you'd see why more PROFESSIONALS use Macs than anyone else. i.e. Steve's Keynote vs. Powerpoint?!? There's simply no comparison.
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2008/05/27/microsoft-demonstrates-multi-touch.aspx
Here's a video of it
Wow, that video is scary, the kid with feces all over his face is nuts.
It looks slow, clunky, buggy and useless, so basically it's ready for release. I can't wait to get rid of my mouse, buy an expensive touch-screen and then spend hours trying to navigate simple menus. Thanks Windows 7!
that kid in that video needs to shave his face
Thanks for posting the video. Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined this technology to be so lame. I mean - really. This is a solution searching for a problem - none of the things that people do in this video is in any way better, faster, easier, or more fun than doing the same thing with the mouse.
Even zooming/panning, which is basically the one thing where touch is proven to be excellent, is lame in this video. It looks like the users have to be very, very careful when zooming or something will go horribly wrong. WTF?? This is a demo - I expect it to show the feature in the best light, and if this is the best they can do, it's going to be a yawner. Hardly worth getting a touchscreen for that.
I am using touch on the iPhone every day, and it works great. But not because it's touch - it works great because it's entirely appropriate for this device, and because the entire user interface was designed with "fingers on it" in mind.
If I had not lost faith in Microsoft a long time ago, I would now.
Everyone seems to be hating the Microsoft multi-touch interface. Keep in mind MS is showing a prototype interface 2 years from launch of the overall product. When have other companies (Apple?) shown anything they were working on years before launch?
Also, MS didn't do this before not because they couldn't, but because the hardware wasn't in place for mulit-touch. Apple builds the hardware and software so they should be able to do the latest. MS has to wait for a hardware manufacturer to build a product that can do mulit-touch before their MT software can be shown.
Everyone is commenting that WIn7 is just Vista+. No one knows that and from what I've read its supposed to be a major departure from Vista.
I'm looking forward to what other developers will do once Win7 is released. One thing is certain, the developers outside of MS can do a lot with programs they build for a Win OS. A multi-touch Win OS has so many possibilities with all the PC based hardware that is out there. This OS and a MT display could transform a lot of hardware.
Goddamn Nikster. Two-years-early prototype. Adjustable sensitivity. Do you know it?
Pretty sure once this rolls out, you will be able to adjust the sensitivity, meaning that people with poor precision will be able to use larger movements than what would be a very high sensitivity on the video.
So Windows 7 has Paint...
I'm yet to be impressed here M$.
Sorry for bringing this up, but...
So it's already better then Mac OS X, bring back MacPaint apple!!!
doesnt apple have multitouch on a laptop screen? oh wait, they dont : (
I wish I didn't have to bring up photoshop to do simple edits.
I'd rather have a well thought-out touch OS than touch added to a mouse+keyboard OS. Microsoft says they are doing this for large screens; Apple has already done this with small screens. Right now, Apple is ahead in this area.
That's not to say things won't change, but Microsoft will need to prove themselves. I'll buy their next product if they can do this.
The dollar sign thing is really stupid and it's getting old. Hate them if you want, but stop acting like a Hot Topic patron.
In my opinion, Microsoft is in a great situation. Right now they have the opportunity of learning from there mistakes from Vista, and to grow with the success of there "Microsoft Surface" technology. I see Windows 7 as the OS of tomorrow, and I can't wait to have it.
P.S. For the crazy Mac-Lovers out there, go ahead and bash, but seriously, do you guys not have lives?
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I like the "M$" usage, it lets me know who the fanboys are, easier to ignore their posts. See also: Microcrap, Crapplesoft, Microsuck, etc.
It's tougher with Apple haters, but not much. Usually something to do with expensive hardware, or a black mock turtleneck, or koolaid, or sheep, or hippies.
@seth - "do you guys not have lives?" Says the guy posting on Engadget. Posting here or on /. pretty much implies a lack in that area, if not totally void. Who's worse, the guy who boasts about X manufacturer's goodness or the guy who flames him?
I have an XP laptop, my wife has OSX. I program in VS and therefore have a legitimate need for Windows, but thanks to bootcamp and parallels, my next new computer will be a Mac hands down. No fanboy raving, just a statement of fact from one who must live in both worlds. Multitouch is cool, but seems gimmicky in this scenario. This is not what I would consider the proper application. Cool for impressing friends/clients/customers, but impractical in every-day use.
I can tell you one thing: If Microsoft releases a multitouch computer before Apple, Steve Jobs will not be a happy man
Apple already has a MultiTouch Computer out.
What many people seem to forget, because you can make it phone calls with it. And it makes very much sense in it's form factor.
Actually: MultiTouch barelly makes sense on normal computers. Especially on desktop computers.
Why do you think did they do the MS Surface stuff? Because you cannot use it on horizontal monitor.
MultTouch will not replace classic input in the short run. And I can't imagine to switch to a vertical display for my graphical work, or switch to fingers: because it will get innacurate.
I think it's a great technology and usefull in many areas. And great that MS is again late to the game ... wait - that's not great.
But MS should finally make Windows more user friendly and clean it up. It drags a tail of old crap, is slow and overly complicated for people that don't care about playing around with their OS.
Multi-pointer X merged to master! Let the war begin!
Don't be a smart ass.
By technicality, a pocket calculator is a computer.
But what he meant was a laptop or desktop or such.
Deedeedee
@Haikibutsu
I automatically have absolutely no respect for you knowing that you're a fan of that mencia hack.
...also, i think the definition of a computer is going to become a little more flexible in the not-too-distant future.
It seems Apple has a few years before worrying about Microsoft. Apple has:
- A touch-based portable OS
- A full trackpad-based multi-touch OS
- Experience and user feedback
It would be a shame if somehow Apple couldn't merge these within a few months, let alone years.
Yeah but Microsoft had a touch based Mobile OS years before.
TMM a multitouch touchpad is a fucking joke. THIS is the real deal
if talking of "computer" in general...microsoft already has "Surface" in production which is the same technology being used at certain AT&T stores.
@TMM, late to the game? they beat apple by a long shot, surface was in developement before the iphone
Microsoft probably won't release a multi-touch computer mostly because Microsoft isn't in the business of producing computers. Multi-touch software? It's anyone's guess who will be first to market to put real onscreen multi-touch into consumer portables or desktops. Personally, I am waiting to see what open source brings.
Jeff, the point isn't that you can hack a calculator, it's that a calculator computes things, just like the iPhone still computes things, or even a watch computes things in a sense.
Who cares who was first? Just give me a damn decent product. I am sick of bugs and all that stuff that is SUPPOSED to be eye candy but honestly looks like garbage.
I hate it when people take pride in companies when they have nothing to do with it other than owning one of their products. Like, it's just a product.
Buy whatever product you like better and shut up. Nobody wants to hear people whining of whose product is better. Competition is great; it encourages the opposing company to smarten up.
And honestly, what are you people thinking when you post your side of the argument? Do you honestly think you are going to change anybody's mind here?
Welcome to Engadget. We're geeks, and we're stubborn.
Yes, it was high customer expectations that was the problem with Vista, and not the fact that they gutted it to the point where it seems like they did not deliver a single thing promised, not even a functional OS.
Sure, its our fault for being surprised when EVERY feature that was supposed to make Vista not XP got butchered to hell except for a few kernel improvements which would have worked better with the XP interface than they EVER did with the Vista interface.
Kinda makes you wonder why Vista Ultimate users feel so betrayed by the utter quality in the pithy few things that did get delivered, after all, it was par for the Vista course.
Wow, what a fantastic idea. Don't fix any of the problems with Vista, just add more bloat. I was foolish to expect anything more.
Wow, they just show one little aspect of Windows7 and your response is "Don't fix any of the problems with Vista, just add more bloat"
Fixing problems with Vista are called bug fixes and service packs.
Yet another person who has never used Vista...
tell me, what are vistas problems?
Most bloat is added by system manufacturers. when you install a fresh copy yourself it's going to run a lot better.
That's pretty much the first thing i do when i get a new laptop, takes the process count down form 85 to 25.
@ Carl
Agreed. I'm sick of hearing people complain about how Vista is slow and bloated, when in actual fact, its mostly due to vendor bloatware that's slowing things down. I'm not saying Vista is perfect - far from it - but it's definitely better than alot of the troll's out there make it out to be.
@ You
Short Sighted mate. Go use linux if you don't like Windows.
Bug fixes don't sell. Multi-touch sells!! a lot!
Bill Gates has been quoted as saying that reliability is one of the worst reasons to upgrade an OS and wonders why in the world anyone would want to upgrade for that reason.
Translation: New "features" and shininess is far higher on Microsoft's to-do list than getting the basics right.
Microsoft rarely drops any feature and will continually add more and more crap to an already overloaded OS.
@John @d @Carl Vitullo @Stevo
Finally, other people who don't have Vista. I'm not saying it's the world's greatest OS, but I like it over XP. It seems more stable on my hardware, and I love the UI changes. Not worth the $180 or whatever, but it's not like they could just backport it all to XP, either. (I also like the User Account Control--it reminds me a lot of UNIX, where if you want to do anything, you have to sudo/su first. I don't know why, but it makes me feel safer.)
jeez, I meant to say *hate* Vista, not *have* Vista. @_@;; My bad.
I don't hate vista either. lol. really, i personally like it far more than XP. There are little problems here and there but nuthing major and there are less and less as time goes by thanx to updates. the bottom line is that it works, as long as u have new technology running it. i'm super excited about Win7 btw.
Looks pretty cool. I think I can see this working in real life.
Touchscreens will need to get a lot cheaper before they become a needed thing for Windows.
They're already getting pretty cheap, Office Depot has a sale this week for an hp tx2000z for $600 after rebates. The normal price for that is closer to $900 though. I got one for $950 a week ago and was kicking myself after I saw the Office Depot ad, although mine has better specs. But if you just want a tablet-convertible laptop, the tx2000z is a great machine. Just don't expect to play any recent games on the integrated Geforce Go 6150.
I can't wait to see what KDE and GNOME do with multiple pointers...
Seems to me this kind of thing could result in a lot of cleaner UIs..
That will be very interesting. gnome and kde are already lway ahead of ms and apple with interfaces as it is. After playing with compiz spaces is such a let down.
At first, I was like "Hm..."
And then, I yawned.
Seriously, is this the best they can show to try to hype their in-development OS? They should really do what Apple did with OS X initially and slowly remove support for old software while making a fresh new foundation that isn't hindered by bad design and implementation from decades ago.
brilliant idea. im all for it, but imagine the amount of shit they'd cop because people couldnt run kings quest 3 etc.
they should also ditch 32 bit support, parrallel ports, floppy drives and everything else that isnt needed in a new computer. businesses will migrate apps to 64 bit as the SDLC runs and in the end you'd have a less bloaty, more stable os.
but it will never happen
It's not news until Apple copies it and calls it the revolutionary "Apple Macbook Touch" then people will go crazy over it.
JK
Awesome I want it!
See that's the thing that is so bizarre.
You have these same guys hoping for Apple to release a Multi-touch MacBook. When you have Microsoft actually confirming that they are aiming for this, then they say it's stupid and a worthless feature.
Tomorrow they will be back hoping that Apple will add multi-touch to their computers.
It's only stupid and worthless because MS is using it. On an Apple and OSX it's perfection.
You're right. It is funny how that works out.
Uh... I think you just proved his point perfectly.
That's what people like about Apple though, when they announce a OS feature they say they product is available in the shops tomorrow, whereas MS shows a product and says expect this in two years. In the meantime Apple has their better product in the market.
That MT scrolling with rubber banding is straight from the iPhone playbook anyway. The iPhone runs the OS X kernel, not some mobile kernel.
Ok, what the living hell is wrong with some of you.
This whole thing was not billed as a "here's everything in Windows7, and it's on sale tomorrow!".
Why on Earth would they do that at this venue of all places? It just boggles the mind hat some of you honestly expected this to happen.
"They should really do what Apple did with OS X initially and slowly remove support for old software while making a fresh new foundation that isn't hindered by bad design and implementation from decades ago."
MS: you programs will no longer work with windows7.
Bloggers: M$ SCREWS EVERYONE!!! THEY ARE FORCING YOU TO BUY ALL NEW PROGRAMS! AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGHH!!!!!
I agree. People take what is one of the best points about Windows - app compatibility - and make it look like it's a bad thing. All over the world, there are more people writing code for Windows than for all the other OSs combined, so there are a lot of bad developers writing shitty code. And if you buy a new Windows and you favorite app from 97 doesn't work because it relied on undocumented behavior, then "it's screw M$ and its bloated OS"
Multitouch is nice, and I can see it being used in notebooks (which are, as it looks, the future of computers), but that's not enough to make an OS. Actually, I bet very very few changes were needed to make it. The real test will be what they are able to make with it, that is, how well they design the UI.
I'm just glad that Windows 7 is going to have the same base as Vista....
Hopefully they can pack a bunch of noticeable advancements into 7, rather than doing most of the work under the hood so to speak...
Don't get me wrong, I really like Vista (aside from the random BSOD I get from using Beta Nvidia drivers), but it is exciting to think that I could go alot further.
That's my only real problem with Vista as wel..... Nvidia.
I'm going to solve that with the next upgrade though. AMD/ATI only for me from now on.
Seriously. I have a 2.5Ghz cpu and I can't run Vista with proper drivers? What's with that Nvidia?
I see not supporting my Voodoo3 3000 AGP, but my Geforce5200 is only a year and a half old. My nforce2 board is only 2 years old.
I sort of blame MSFT too for not leaning on Nvidia, but Nvidia could just release the code for the xp drivers and let the community fix them. That's free.
With all these touch screen interfaces out and coming out, does no one care anymore about looking at a screen with no fingerprints all over it? I for one HATE smudges and fingerprints on my monitors and dont see myself using any sort of touchscreen.
Still don't get multi-touch. Do you really want fingerprints all over your monitor? Even on mobile devices, how many use a finger and how many use a stylus? It will be "cool" for retail stores or CNN on election night but I don't see any home market.
GUYS ... I ASK .. WHY WOULD I TOUCH MY EXPENSIVE SCREEN .... WHY ? ? ? GIVE ME SOMETHIGN LIKE THE WII TYPE WHERE I DONT HAVE TO REACH TO THE SCREEN AND TOUCH IT ... LAME ... AND THATS WHY APPLE HASNT RELEASE A COMPUTER LIKE THAT ....
You see that button on the left side of you keyboard next to "A"? ... Yeah it makes all your letters DO THIS
Oh yes, i'm sure Apple hates multi touch, and to celebrate it, it's going to release a 2nd iPhone.
yes because ... my iphone is a computer where i have at home .. and i touch it every day ... rite ... and since you are so smart .... just so you know ... an iphone is not a home computer ... DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS AN IPHONE ? ? ? ... guess .... not right
ITS NEXT TO "Q" ON MY KEYBOARD. but dont mind us belgian, we just provide you with your deluxe chocolates
Macha: someone's got a persecution complex.
Macha;
That would be Swiss with Lindt. Nice try tho :P
Yeah, touch in a PC form factor is pretty lame. Especially for those who have a huge screen and like to sit back from the screen.
The should make the screens concave and holographic. Then the user floats his fingers over the "screen" and even inside the field but never touches it.
So much can be done with this but im afraid its going to be a gimmick to sell 400$ garbage.
Another gimmick? From Microsoft? No wai!!
It has multi-touch support. And? What else? It's not as if it was really that difficult to go from touch screen support in XP to multi-touch here in 7.
That's a mighty small watch for such a big hand.
Doesn't the iPhone/iPod touch already do this touch-screen multi-touch. I'm just saying that as long as MS builds a usable Windows 7, that should be good enough. I'm not sure if people do want to use their fingers all over a large monitor. It would seem like a lot of extra motions involved. I would think that multi-touch would be better for smaller screens. Is there such a thing as smudgeless glass or coating. I hate seeing fingerprints on my monitor.
Multi-touch? Ugg! I'm surely not alone in obsessing about one or two tiny greasy fingerprints on my screen, there is NO WAY I'll be able to use a laptop covered in smeared finger trails.
Idiots. Implement multi-touch in a touch-pad ... not on the screen. Microsoft just doesn't get it.
Nobody will want to raise there arms in the air to control there PC. It's just not practical... and using MS Paint won't make it any better.
hate to break it to you, but touchpads are made by hardware manufacturers, which Microsoft is not.
Really?
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/
congrats dave, you idiot, I meant manufacturer of touchpad hardware, obviously Microsoft makes mice and other crap but not laptops with touchpads.