Good thing
nobody's working on anything right now in the smartphone space, or this could be really bad news for Microsoft, whose current version of Windows Mobile lost the technology and usability edge a while ago, and is being bandaged up by the likes of HTC to keep the OS relevant to consumers. According to CNET, some of Microsoft's partners in the space are claiming that the upcoming
Windows Mobile 7 has been pushed back to the second half of 2009, instead of the "early next year" they'd
been expecting. Microsoft has yet to make a formal announcement about the release date of the OS or the specific feature set, so we can't exactly point our fingers and laugh, but we'd say crying big, mobile OS tears into our morning cereal is certainly appropriate.
[Thanks, pd]
posted Sep 23rd 2008 8:50AM
BOOOOOOO!
want now!
Nice shot in the foot there, MS.
a shot in the foot would have been them releaseing version 7 out this year. From what the last known shots of WM7, the software was by far no match to the iPhone and probably Android (we'll know soon!). If they keep developing it, hopefully it will actually be able to compete in today's mobile market.
WM6.1 is fine for now with HTC's touch interface.
Nice interface. It has the Windows feel.
The last real details we heard, WM7 was basically a stopgap measure. It was going to be very similar to WM5/6 but tacking on a handful of new little usability tweaks and the like. WM8 was already under development, and was going to be the flashy, touch-oriented overhaul that would make WM competitive in the iPhone / Android landscape. WM8 wasn't expected until 2010.
If they're pushing back WM7, that sounds to me more like they're really trying to push forward WM8 -- which is a good thing. Better to hold off and deliver more of the good stuff than release an incremental update that just reinforces views that MS is completely out of touch with the market.
Oxymoron of the year: "Nice interface. It has the Windows feel."
I agree with wako. Should they release it now just to release it? If it's not so good, people will say "way to shoot yourself in the foot there MS, should have left that in the oven a little longer."
Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
wako:
I guess you're right to an extent - it would have been an even bigger shot in the foot if they had rushed 7 out. I was just a little disappointed that it's now going to be another 9 Months at least before we see what was speculated to be out pretty soon.
Oh well, I do hope it will end up being absolutely kickass, especially now it has another platform to compete with.
If all you want in your phone is to have nice 3d wooshing features, then yeah, I guess WinMo 6.1 is irrelevant to consumers.
Wait, are you saying Engadget loves Vista Aero?
@ typoink
i think you have the stopgap confused. That is NOT what WM7 would be. That is what windows mobile 6.1 is...considering that WM6.1 is basically 6.0, which is basically window 5.0, which is basically windows mobile ce. WM 7 is supposed to the be platform to address all the "eh..its a windows mobile device" issues that some parts of the public still insist on having. i for one can't wait for 7.
I think Google did the wrong thing , and should have waited like MS until Android was more polished and optimized before releasing it. It obviously isn't close to being a stable, high performance platform.
- Bluetooth/A2DP/tethering isn't ready
- Exchange support isn't ready
- Desktop synch isn't ready
- All the apps are rough around the edges
- The web browser is slow and laggy
- etc
Microsoft is working hard to catch up with the big players. Just check out this article on AzureJournal: http://www.azurejournal.com/2008/11/windows-sensor-and-location-platform/ . Looks like not only M$ is working on "touch" phones but also laptops, tablet pc's and other devices. Have you seen Mirosoft Surface? All that research is not done for nothing:)
On one hand.. this tells you that M$ was either bringing another lemon to the table and realized they needed more... or that WinMo7 is going to be so packed with awesomeness that they couldn't get it all done in time.
Considering they are bringing IE6 with all of its glorious limitations for styling and jscript... I think we know its the former more so than the latter.
WOW, did you think of replacing the letter 'S' with a dollar sign all by yourself? What a promising young achiever you are!
I'm pretty sure the use of the abbrev M$ for microsoft has been around for a long time. Surprised they haven't trademarked it yet... Welcome to your first day on the Internet!
You're right. It's been around for as long as the utter cocks who use it.
Instead of engadget being a technology blog site, they of course have to make fun of MS again.
I thought this was still a technology news site? I personally believe that if Microsoft are potentially falling behind with an important update to the haphazard OS my phone comes with, then this is relevant and newsworthy for a site such as Engadget (definitely not newsworthy in the more important bbc news sense). I would also argue that in this case the slagging was deserved - may the Flying Spaghetti Monster bless HTC for making the WinMo interface a little more user friendly for my fat fingers and prettier, to the relief of my aging eyes.
I was referring more to the point and laugh comment. It does not sound very professional. Im a WinMo user as well. I have a BlackJack 2. I also agree WinMo 7 will be a nice change from what we currently have, but Im just sick of the overall MS bashing in each article Engadget posts. Hopefully you will see now I was never saying the article wasnt blog worthy, I was just saying the way they blogged it was childish.
I don't think you understand what a blog is.
Bad news. Would have loved to see a good fight between Android, WinMo 7 and iPhone's OSx in the first Quarter of 2009.
Same here.
I was optimistic about the chances of MS releasing WinMo 7 early next year as this could have set the scene for a very competitive Smart phone market (not that it already isn't). Personally, I was looking forward to a market war involving the iPhone OS, WinMo 7, Android and Blackberry OS.
This news does disappoint me quite a bit as our hopes of running WinMo 7 on the HTC Touch HD sooner are dashed. Although, I would rather MS release a refined and market ready product later than release a buggy one sooner.
Let's just all hope that MS can deliver a new Smart Phone OS worthy of being in the competitive smart phone market which they have tried so hard to dominate.
1) How can you say that there's "delay" if the product has never been announced?
2) Did you really think that HTC would be releasing the HTC HD if WM7 was coming out in a few months ?
3) How is this affecting MS anyway? WM phones a re most feature rich and advanced phones on the market now (and they are selling quite well)
WM7 will come out in JUNE 2009 at the same time HTC annouces their new generations of WM Touch smartphones (they did this in June 2007 1 2008
Look & listen, he clearly says not coming out in early 2009 : http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-16549-Interview+of+John+Starkweather+from+Microsoft+Part+1+on+3.html
Nothing new
"WM phones [are the] most feature rich and advanced phones on the market now (and they are selling quite well)"
HAHAHA That's a good one!
I agree.
WM phones are pretty much the best smartphone available out there. And you get several flavors and levels depending on your needs.
Another good point, most of the improvements to WM that are coming in WM7 are incorporating the improvements made by third party interests.
Microsoft has let the public decide how they want the interface to operate. HTC's latest WM shell and countless others available to download on the internet give users complete flexibility and power over the OS.
You truly don't realize the power of WM and your smartphone until you start customizing it.
I think the "SmartPhone" is decent from WinMo... but their full WinMo Pro just limits the hardware by trying to do too much windows, and not enough phone.
WinMo devices should be a phone first, and a WinMo second. Perhaps its just the hardware that can't keep up. I'm sure WinXP would be crappy on a 486DX PC too. But all the same, I find that with HTC's Manila front end on my touch, I use very little of the rest of WinMo.. and Office Mobile is the most unnecessary thing in the world. No matter how many people rave about it. I've still yet to see someone reading a 30 page doc file on their phone without getting a headache.
Just use a VNC program and remote into your PC.. thats the only application that needs to be on a phone.
kjb, et al...
I'm sorry, have you ever used Windows Mobile? It's like they threw a cell phone on as an afterthought.
It's a vaguely acceptable toy with some great apps. It's fun to play with, if you don't mind having to manage all of your processes manually just to make the device usable. However, I'm more concerned with the thing ringing when a call comes in, and telling me when I have voicemail from the call it didn't tell me about, than I am about breaking out my mad phat task manager skillz.
Why anybody ever bought one over a BB is beyond me.
@Unix thingy.
Yes, I have used one. Have you?
It's kind of funny how this site make fun of MS for windows, zune and xbox. If MS decided to stop making these things were will we be. Windows is used every were! For windows mobile 7 it was supposed to come out around 2ndQ of 2009.
"If MS decided to stop making these things were will we be. Windows is used every were!"
And you think this is a good thing? Educate yourself on the topics of Monopoly, Predatory Pricing, and complacency.
Yay Andir is back to educate us with his business savvy.
If this is true, how come a company a big as Microsoft take so long to update WM?
It's not a priority.
With Vista being hated by half of the corporate world, and Office 2007 generally panned as an unnecessary update for most, Microsoft is pretty busy shoring up their two cash cows (OS and productivity).
Ideally, Microsoft would rather handsets just run a lean version of their desktop OS (sound familiar?), making WM a necessary evil for the time-being.
"and Office 2007 generally panned as an unnecessary update for most"
What planet do you live on? Not that any upgrade of Office is ever "necessary", but Office 2007 is the most significant upgrade to the suite in at least the last 10 years in my opinion. Some people don't seem to be able to adjust to the new interface, but by and large it's received incredible reviews.
The sad reality is that they are going to end up loosing more of their faithful over to iPhone and even Android.
Hell, if Palm could get their act together and get their new PalmOS out, maybe they could even get a few customers back as well.
You think?
*Looks at the HD Diamond, Pro, HD and the Samsung Omnia*
Nope. Shouldn't think so.
"Windows Mobile lost the technology and usability edge"
I wont argue usability, but when did WM lose the technology edge? It has Exchange Activesync obviously before Apple did, it has built-in tethering before Apple, it has cut and paste, it has stereo bluetooth and bluetooth FTP. Its has speaker-independent voice recognition. It has a today screen which Apple is trying to patent. It multi-tasks, something which brings Mobile OSX down. Its open to skinning and deep modification.
If all you care about is graphics then MS may have lost that technology edge, but when I am doing turn by turn GPS navigation while listening to Internet radio streaming over A2DP from Kinoma Play, I find that MS has more than enough technology to keep me going, and that other fruitier platforms (and even android it seems) are still very far behind.
Well said. It just goes to show what half-wits are running this site. For a tech blog they have an extremely limited view of what technology actually is and are more interested in what's pretty than what actually works.
Thank you! I really was wondering where exactly the fuck the whole 'loss of the technology edge' comment came from. Just more crap to generate page views, as comments like that are sure to start a shit storm in the comments. Besides, the fact that WinMo can be "bandaged up by the likes of HTC to keep the OS relevant to consumers" is exactly what allows it to stay technologically current.
Oh yeah, also Copy and Paste.
what you said are pretty much right. But winMo wasn't designed for touch interface and that's where it seriously lacks when the device manufacturers are trying to follow the touch trend set by the fruit company. WinMo smartphone version doesn't even have touch screens and it shows MS designed the OS with hardware in mind and touch wasn't a feature they expected so they are (like everyone) catching up.
What they also lack, out of the box, PIE is PoS and they may as well buy Opera licences and ship with it. The picture viewer, media player need complete overhaul. Build-in MSN Live Map would be good (iPhone N9x comes with gmap? out of the box). It doesn't work on Mac but i know how you're going to argue on this. No complete phone back up, new firmware wipes everything and if the common winmo users relies on so many 3rd party software to get the phone usable, it is many hours wasted to reinstall and reconfigure.
turn by turn nav is not because winMo has the tech, other OSes can do the same (S60, BB e.g.) and whos to say TT isn't gonna be available on iPhone too?
The key is, you get people writing software to simulate iPhone's features and not the other way round (apple probably block it anyway). This just shows what the owners think of their devices' OS and I've had had 3 generations of winMo (not including the iPaqs).
You talk about the picture viewer for example. With the iPhone picture viewer you can zoom and pan, but can you crop? Can you permanently rotate the picture? Can you send it via bluetooth to some-one else?
Dont mistake a fancy GUI for technology.
"(apple probably block it anyway)."
Exactly, Apple only allow you to up stuff on that they want, with WinMo you are allowed to install and run anything you like on there.
Isn't that just about the same time Palm is supposedly releasing devices based on its new Palm OS replacement?
Given iPhone/Android/Symbian, I wonder if either will be relevant by that time.
I would rather them delay the release and actually fix some of WinMo's problems than rush another release out for the sake of another release, and then announcing as products are about to hit the market that they are yanking thinks from the SDK like Bluetooth.
The one thing that I appreciate about people buying the iPhone is that MS finally realized that they can't continue with their Spyglass era browser in the phone (why it took them so long to realize this is beyond me). Of course unfortunately the iPhone also helps promote some stupid ideas like omitting cut and paste, but at least MS only omits that on WinMo Standard.
Palm has once again delayed their next gen OS (faux shock), Android is fighting to get a single phone onto the market, and so far has actually delivered nothing but hype. So, why is this delay so horrible? I think they would be shooting themselves in the foot more by releasing WinMo7 early with a feature set that is incomplete or unable to compete than it is to delay it for a month or two (which is all we are really talking about here).
@Craig
Good point. The end of 09 sounds a long way off!
Maybe it will come with a free copy of Duke Nukem Forever for Portables.
@Backlin
Memes: Do not want!
Bugs , maybe???? LOL
Yes, Microsoft would clearly be better off following Apple's lead and releasing their next OS before the bugs are worked out. You can call me to discuss this once your iPhone sorts out its reception problems.
That would never work for the simple fact that Microsoft doesn't release the OS to users.
Microsoft releases an adaptation kit, which an OEM uses to build the OS for their specific device. If Microsoft released the OS with known bugs and they make their way to a user then updates made by Microsoft must go through the OEM (to build a new OS image) and those updates must be approved by the phone carrier and assuming that both the OEM is willing to make a new image and that the carrier is willing to approve it then the image is available to the user.
Unfortunately there is also the problem of update discovery. Since each OEM has made their own OS image (And not Microsoft) there is no central source for a user to discover that there is an OS update available for their device (after all, not every one reads Engadget on a regular to learn about everything going on in the phone world).
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/10/06/477999.aspx
I think WM/Android/iPhone/PalmOS has a real problem, my handset running WM/Android/iPhone/PalmOS is great and has all the features I need. I'm fed up with people running down WM/Android/iPhone/PalmOS as they clearly have a better operating system than WM/Android/iPhone/PalmOS, I should know I chose it myself and I'll spend lots of time on forums defending my purchasing choice as I'm clearly right, WM/Android/iPhone/PalmOS rules!
(Delete OS's as appropriate)
That couldn't have a better comment. Hats off to you.
Can I use that as signature for my school email please? It will drive people nuts.
Posted from my WM/Android/iPhone/PalmOS!
Great comment! Although I'm sure some spoon will still argue that you are wrong and that their way is best!!
Steve wins the Internets.
So let me get this straight, Microsoft has NEVER announced a release date to the public, it's partner ecosystem or anyone else and yet Engadget can write an article bagging Microsoft (yet again) for some unsubstantiated rumour about a delay to Windows Mobile 7 which doesn't yet have a public release date?
OMG, and how many idiots write comments on here based upon this unsubstantiated rumour to an OS which doesn't yet have a release date! Idiots.....
I'm wondering if the Engadget staffs reads these comments. Instead of just blindly keep on bashing certain products.
I love Microsoft.
oh no you didnt...
Hey it takes time to cram Vista into a handset, give'm a break! :P
Doomed.
I have this idea that Microsoft HAS NO DAMN CLUE WHAT IT'S DOING. Mobiles are the new PC. Delay Windows 7 if you have to, dammit, Windows Mobile 7 is more important. Microsoft needs to revamp the UI in Windows Mobile (completely), so that it doesn't depend on a stylus for simple tasks (texting, calling phone numbers, etc.), they need to make a synchronization system that takes place in the cloud, and they need an app store that's easy to find applications (including FREE ones).
Double, triple, quadruple the manpower on Windows Mobile 7, but... Microsoft... if you want to lose the mobile battle, you will continue doing what you're doing -- and focusing on Windows on the PC.
WHAT YOU SAID IN YOUR POST THEY HAVE ALL READY DONE! THE NEW ZUNE WILL RUN WINDOWS 7 THE DON'T WANT A HAVE ASS PRODUCT OUT THERE!
As others have pointed out, Windows on the desktop is MS's cash cow. Corporations are hesitating to upgrade from XP, so MS has to satisfy that itch first.
I agree that mobile phone OSs are the future, but it's probably still a drop in the bucket for MS compared to their desktop and Office revenue.
While the delay might be a good thing, allowing them to work out the kinks, this assumes that everyone else is standing still. WM7 may come out "bug free" late next year, and be instantly out-of-date w.r.t. the latest Apple offerings.
Honestly, I prefer using a stylus on touchscreen phones. For one thing, I'm brilliant at writing, not the actual writing part, but the technical pen-to-paper part, I'd imagine most of us here are. I use a modified pen (Papermate Xtend Triple) with a stylus input for all my touchscreens, and I honestly prefer it over my finger. When I absolutely MUST use my finger/thumb, I use my nail, because the pad of my finger/thumb has too much surface area to accurately pinpoint on certain areas.
Case in (ha ha) point; the iPhone's keyboard. After using it for several days (borrowed from a friend), I still haven't got the hang of typing without making mistakes.
The Hiptop 2, on the other (again, ha ha) hand, is easy; I managed to belt out a fairly lengthy email (about 500 words) without many mistakes, minutes after picking up the device. The hiptop actually less surface area per letter, but they're physical buttons, and so less accidental mistakes from pressing the virtual buttons to the left and right of a letter. But I digress, back to the problem at hand.
I actually prefer the WM virtual keyboard to the iPhone's virtual keyboard, even though it's smaller, I can use a stylus to get exactly the right letter, every time. Granted, it takes slightly longer with only one input device (unlike iPhone's two thumbs (or more), but I actually spend less time typing something out with a stylus than I do with my thumbs, because I spend less time correcting my errors.
That and (admittedly lacklustre) handwriting recognition.
I agree with most of what you said, Norman. Companies spend the money where they make the money. Microsoft is no different in that regard. The company I work for didn't upgrade to XP until last year and they aren't about to upgrade to Vista anytime soon. It just costs too much to install a new OS on thousands of machines and they also have to ensure that our customized software is compatible. We just can't afford to have machines down with glitches. I suspect they're going to skip Vista stick with XP until well after Windows 7 is released.
Microsoft is spending money on their new campaign, trying to get that touchy feely image like Apple. Mac users upgrade their machines readily as the new OSs are released. If Visa is a failure in any regard, it's in the fact that so many people just don't care about it and are not upgrading.
So what does this have to do with Windows Mobile 7? I believe Microsoft isn't as committed to it as many users would like them to be because they are busy working on their image and trying to increase sales of Vista. Lets face the facts. The economy sucks and they're competing for your money just like every other corporation out there. Microsoft has spent a lot of money on Vista and they want to make as much as they can on it.
Why is this delayed or premature??
WM 6 came out 18 months ago (2/07) and barely improved on WM5.
And that still wasn't enough time to get out 7?
Apple is dropping OS revisions constantly, although they still have a ways to go.
I was holding out for a dream combo like HTC Touch HD with WM7/Zune software w/ Skymarket because I like the WM openness over the iPhone platform but there is no way in hell I am waiting until Dec 2009.
Android/Apple, here I come...
WinMo 6.1 came out in April this year, moron.
I have a Treo 700WX with WM 5 and I love it. By the time WM7 is released maybe it will be in line with the Windows 7 release?
WM7 should be the mobile "redeemer" for MS, and if that means spending a little more time on it, then so be it. One of the perks to a Windows Mobile device, be it 2003,5,6,6.1 whatever, is that it is usually upgradeable. In my case, I'm running a 3 year old HTC Wizard (Cingular 8125) originally running WM5, but now running one of the latest builds of 6.1 from the Diamond. With this in mind, I'm happy to be patient, because I know that my current phone will last me through the release of WM7 and beyond, and with the right customization, it can do just as much as the other "big boys". People need to grow out of the "blind fanboy" phase and grow up to accept competition for its benefits, and not to bash before official details are released.
But they MUST bash, don't you understand?
If they wait until the actual product is released, they may find that everything they were/weren't going to bash it on doesn't/does exist! Therefore, they must hang up a device or system early, so that they already have a pre-concieved mindset by the time it's released, and they realise that they've been barking up the wrong tree.
@resource
Apple are only dropping new revisions constantly because they first released it with buggy software so they are fixing it as they go along, once they fix one thing they release a new revision.
MS could do exsactly the same if they released the OS now, and then they can keep dropping revisions every month untill they get to a near fixed OS.
This delay is like an invitation for everyone to try out Android for a year...
I thought it was strange to have all these new WinMo devices being released only months before a major sofware refresh. This delay might have more to do with Microsoft allowing its hardware manufacturers to sell their currently and soon to be released devices before they hit us with the next gen of hardware.
I guess this answers the question, "Will my new TouchPro/Xperia/TouchHD/Omnia be upgradeable to WinMo 7?" It doesn't matter, you'll be buying a new device second half of the year.
With more and more Manufacturers building WinMo devices there sure is/will be a lot to choose from in 6.1 flavor.
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=1094
http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/smartphone_pool_may_be_getting.html
HAHAHA Of course it was pushed back, it's MS. Did you seriously expect something more? Their heads are so far up their asses nowadays this is really no surprise. Their OS releases are becoming a laughing stock. This is hilarious, a big LOL for you MSFanboys. One more for our side. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You guys realize that Windows Mobile (Windows CE 5.X) is used on more than just cellphones right? Barcode scanners, dispatch handhelds, something like 20,000 different unique devices it runs on. Cellphones are probably fewest on that list.
Here is what I am hoping from Windows Mobile 7:
Finger friendly stock GUI, will obviously combine Standard and Professional Editions.
The ability to completely strip the GUI and all the core programs down to core functionality and be redone, reskinned, or reworked by 3rd parties, (Users, HTC, etc.) I love what HTC have done with their TouchFlo3D and how much cooler it could be if that was truly the core UI of the OS.
Increased stability, added protections (togglable) to keep the device from hosing up completely when running apps that consume the CPU.
Higher standards for WM phones. Required minimum resolutions, CPUs, RAM, perhaps Accelerometer if the device doesnt have a keyboard.
It'd be cool if Windows Mobile 7 looked kinds like Vista, the menus and everything ran like a lite version of Vista. The way menus pop in and out and nice little effects like that. Windows Mobile already has the functionality, it just looks dated even with the most rescent update.
my question is will windows mobile 7 be available for an upgrade for phones that run winmo6.1 cuz i want to buy the htc touch hd whenever it gets released but dont want to switch phones mid 2009 to use winmo7? i dont know if i can get the touch hd and expect an update later on or if i should just hold on and wait for a winmo7 phone?