Nokia irks UK carriers with decision to include Skype on N97

Nokia made plenty of folks happy with its decision to include Skype on its new N97 handset, and future N-series devices, but it looks like the usual cadre of UK carriers aren't among them, and they're now making their displeasure quite clear. That includes O2 and Orange, who are apparently threatening to refuse stock of the N97 unless Nokia strips out the Skype client, a point they have reportedly made directly to Nokia in "high-level discussions." Another unnamed "operator source" was apparently even more blunt, saying that this is "another example of them trying to build an ecosystem that is all about Nokia and reduces the operator to a dumb pipe," adding that, "some people like 3 may be in a position where it could make sense to accept that. But if you spend upwards of £40m per year building your brand, you don't want to be just a dumb pipe do you?" For its part, Nokia seems to be staying mum on the matter for the time being, though it's tough to see a handset like the N97 just sitting on the shelf, so it seems like one party or the other will have to give sooner or later.

[Via mocoNews.net]

[Raymond @ Feb 27th 2009 5:07PM]

That's simple. Put Skype for N97 on Nokia's site or Skype's site.
Those who are going to use will know where to download them.

[HAIL_ACME @ Feb 27th 2009 5:41PM]

fring.com done

[mabhatter @ Feb 27th 2009 6:22PM]

but that's the point.. now everybody can have Skype... what's the world coming to? Good for everybody.. unless you make big money selling 64kb bandwidth by the MINUTE.

[gowen @ Feb 27th 2009 9:56PM]

I have one HUGE question. What on earth makes the phone companies - or cable companies for that matter - think that they are anything BUT dumb pipes? the only thing that all of those companies do is deliver OTHER PEOPLES's content. That is what makes them dumb pipes. We can - and do - watch "lost" through iTunes, TV, cell phones, DVDs, web sites and other ways i cannot think of. Its 'Lost' we are loyal to and interested in, NOT the delivery method. Until the cell phone companies manage to own content, they will remain nothing more than dumb pipes.

[Mark Anderson @ Feb 27th 2009 5:12PM]

This account is as good as your previous ones.

It all seems a bit forced.

[BFish @ Feb 27th 2009 5:16PM]

Nokia is in trouble with UK carriers, they are refusing to take any handset that has Nokia Ovi Musicstore integrated or Skype. It starts to look like the US markets where they don't have proper operator relations to sell handsets.

[Mark Anderson @ Feb 27th 2009 5:25PM]

Orange offer the 5310 CWM. The exclusion only lasted until Christmas.

[Jamma @ Feb 27th 2009 5:33PM]

Kind of hypocritical dontcha think?

O2 let apple's iPhone have their own music store and app store , which includes fring and truephone.

And now they complain about a phone which is OPEN to operator branding both in hardware and software, just like 99% of the phones on the UK market.

If i'm paying £35 quid a month for 600mins, unlimited texts and web, then they're not really losing money from skype support are they?

[jakem @ Feb 27th 2009 5:49PM]

It's worse than hypocritical - it's just stupid. O2 have more WinMO phones than any other carrier and yet there's nothing stopping WinMo users from installing and using skype. Also, if 3 can successfully integrate free skype usage on their network and make a profit charging for data then why can't the other networks?

[chefgon_ign @ Feb 27th 2009 5:17PM]

Dumb Pipe is where they are all ultimately going anyway, it's absolutely inevitable. Why fight it? Embrace it and give the best dumb pipe service possible. You will attract tons of customers and you may destroy your competition before they can catch up.

[Joylove @ Feb 27th 2009 6:23PM]

Absolutely. The amount of people I know who use skype as their primary call handler I can count on the fingers of one knee. Furthermore, skype/MSN spanks the battery in the phone, so you turn it off. Skype is not suitable for mobile terminals and will die out.

Just like the "walled garden" approach the operators had to the internet, restricting users is a bad idea.

Charge us a £5 a month for the internet unrestricted, (it's basically the same cost as all the free calls package you get anyway), the subscriptions will pour in as mobile broadband becomes essential, and generally the suitable-for-mobile services will flourish.

Train checkers, online Yell.com with maps integration, price checkers, news headlines, facebook. Not power hungry IM clients in the majority of cases will be the future.

[dan @ Feb 27th 2009 7:40PM]

The ridiculous thing is that a 'dumb pipe' is EXACTLY what people want. Whether we're talking about mobile phones, ISPs or the plain old postal service, all anybody really wants is two way information exchange. If you can offer your dumb pipe cheaper and more reliably than anyone else, you'll be a winner.

[r3loaded @ Feb 28th 2009 5:25AM]

3 offer a similar "dumb pipe" experience - 5 pounds a month for all the mobile internet you can access, (subject to some fair use limit ofc, it's something like 1GB. I use about 15MB per month, if even that). With their new aggressive push into affordable mobile broadband for laptops. it looks like 3 are the ones who'll be coming out top in the UK very soon..

[contractcooker @ Feb 28th 2009 9:42PM]

HEAR HEAR!!!

They are all just dumb pipes. Unfortunately they don't realize it yet. I can't wait for someone to put telcos in their fucking place. They are so arrogant and greedy. People should be outraged by carriers acting like this but unfortunately we've become accustomed to this shitty behavior

[contractcooker @ Feb 28th 2009 9:43PM]

YES,
They are just dumb pipes.... why do they think they aren't? Silly telcos trying to rape and pillage consumers for all they're worth.... silly telcos

[Theorof @ Feb 28th 2009 10:33PM]

I agree.

Dear O2 & Orange:
STFU and be a stupid pipe!

[BlurMagic @ Feb 27th 2009 5:20PM]

Seriously. You try way to hard to be funny.

[Ethan @ Feb 27th 2009 5:20PM]

Hooray for vertical integration.

[Magallanes @ Feb 27th 2009 5:28PM]

sexual innuendo?.

[Ethan @ Feb 27th 2009 5:48PM]

About as far as you can get really. It's an economic term for when several steps to producing a good are sandwiched together. Here the service sector for some reason has control to some extent over which features get to consumers. Orange actually take the phone out of the manufacturer's packaging, rewrite all of the instruction manuals, and put it in their own box - I can't think why. In one case they missed out an installation cd, they just said it wasn't supposed to be there.

[YpoCaramel @ Feb 27th 2009 5:50PM]

hahaha maybe Nokia will BUY Skype from Ebay and make a vertical merger. AKA how to really piss carriers XD

[bartg @ Feb 27th 2009 5:23PM]

Wouldn't anyone who wants to use it just download it anyways? They shouldn't be selling smartphones to begin with if this is so troublesome to them.

[Magallanes @ Feb 27th 2009 5:28PM]

I think it is not too different in comparison with the affair between Apple and AT&T, and maybe other manufacturer (including the so called "open" android) have some kind of limitation because the carrier.

The solution is to give a fixed internet data and voice plan instead to give a unlimited plan for some usage and pay-per-use for other.

[loocas @ Feb 27th 2009 5:23PM]

I don't care, I don't buy phones from carriers, they're dumb pipes anyways... so, C'MON NOKIA! Release the phone already, I can't wait!

[Shattered Ice @ Feb 27th 2009 5:27PM]

Simple leave it out for users to download as part of their appstore.

[DJManoloco @ Feb 27th 2009 5:30PM]

Damn this motherf*cker is lame. Every post I check out this lame ass Apple groupie is on Apple's and Steve Job's sack. This post is in no way Apple related yet he manages to link it in some delusional way. Get your mouth cleared from Steve Job's _____ before you post so you can make some damn sense. If Nokia keeps Skype then I applaude their decision. Skype is an awesome VOIP client on WinMo and I use it here and there to make international calls. Raymond's suggestion makes sense however, and this way you please all parties. Let the consumer decide what is best for them and avoid any problems.

[alexmueller @ Feb 27th 2009 5:32PM]

Funny I don't complain to them about their(telcos) high bill prices and just looking at me as a dumb customer.

[jeesusfreek @ Feb 27th 2009 5:34PM]

omfg. i'm going back and lowranking every single of one this guys comments, until he sets his profile private at least.

stfu, please, please please please for the love of all that is good - just let me read my blog in peace, without having to deal with your constant obnoxious comments.

[Icchansan @ Feb 27th 2009 5:37PM]

Waiting for this baby

[dizilbdog @ Feb 27th 2009 5:38PM]

Not everyone will use it. Just like not everyone uses bluetooth or obex transer. These carriers are going to have to change with the times. Same thing happened with bluetooth and they all thought everyone was going to transfer pictures to there computers and never send them or never buy ringtones. You can put skype on an iPhone and not everyone will use shit half of the people probably don't even know hot to get applications on an iPhone.

[Bokal @ Feb 27th 2009 5:50PM]

Fring says hello.

[Al @ Feb 27th 2009 5:50PM]

DUMB PIPES! DUMB PIPES! DUMB PIPES!

[Ethan @ Feb 27th 2009 5:51PM]

When telling a joke, always SHOUT the punchline and laugh at your joke afterwards. Otherwise, people won't know it was supposed to be funny!

AHAHAHA

[paul-engadget @ Feb 27th 2009 5:55PM]

I'm generally happy with Nokia phones, I like S60 somewhat, and have an E65 and an original 6310i from yesteryear as it has awesome battery life.

However, even when the operator brands the phone lightly I still prefer to have it exactly as Nokia would have designed the software, so I debrand the phone. This requires use of a tool called Nemesis Service Suite to change the product code of the phone (connect phone to PC with ordinary data cable; exit PC suite first). You then run the normal Nokia software updater and it will install generic firmware.
Note that this doesn't remove operator sim locks :-(

I have debranded Nokia E and N series, and in some cases people say it's like having a new phone, especially as some operators like Orange have ripped out all the programs that people actually want.

[Wesley @ Feb 27th 2009 5:57PM]

We don't need dumb pipe operators to turn smartphones into dumbphones. Innovation and progress should be suppressed.

[Jack_Barron @ Feb 27th 2009 6:00PM]

Is Gizmodo down or something?

[Wesley @ Feb 27th 2009 6:00PM]

We don't need dumb pipe operators to turn smartphones into dumbphones. Innovation and progress should be suppressed.

[G @ Feb 27th 2009 6:37PM]

Operators should shut up and just provide the services they charge for: calls, texts and data transfer.


i'm happy that my operator does only this and stays out of the software. branding is one of the worst things an operator can do and so are the "exclusive offers" they have in the USA where operators block each other from selling certain phones. In this case if they charge for data transfer, the user should be able to use it for anything he wants.

[Skorpius @ Feb 27th 2009 7:13PM]

Exactly. In reply to that anonymous operator's quote in the story, yes, a dumb pipe is exactly what you should be, like electric, water, and gas. You are a fucking utility and people are sick of your industry's shit. We're still paying on a monthly contract, so boo-hoo that you can't gouge people on overages.

[BratPAQ @ Feb 27th 2009 6:40PM]

UK Operators can just block skype, or any other VOIP operator for that matter anyway.

What operators can do is to evolve to VOIP and Wi-Max technology, yes it will be less profitable for now but its the future and its inevitable. And one day a carrier will provide Wi-Max networks and phones and it will lower the demand of GSM and CDMA technology, they might as well start adopting now.

[Lloytron @ Feb 27th 2009 6:55PM]

I used to think this guy was an Apple schill but I can't see this guy getting a job working for McDonalds, let alone Apple.

So he must troll for Apple just for fun. The mind boggles.

[Fernando @ Feb 27th 2009 7:02PM]

Sigh, when will carriers learn? They are no different than internet providers, exactly "dumb pipes"!

[anus1220 @ Feb 27th 2009 7:22PM]

if this came in a cdma flavour i would cream myself. this phone is getting better and better.

[Vision Aforethought @ Feb 27th 2009 7:42PM]

@HAIL_ACME: Indeed. I installed Fring on my Nokia E71 (excellent phone). One day, I was visiting a colleague and I heard this weird noise. Feeling a vibration in my lower parts, I extracted my phone to see Fring 'ringing'. It was someone calling me from Skype (thinking I was at my desk). So I hit 'Answer' and began to talk. The call quality was better than a regular call - to my surprise. (I had not been aware that you could actually make a VoIP call over a mobile until that day, assuming that Fring was simply a universal text based chat client.) The additional surprise: I was in a very poor signal area, and my E71 was in regular GPRS/2G/2.5G mode, not 3G.

Another quality client is Truphone, than is available for the iPhone as well as Symbian and other platforms.

Re Nokia, they can tell the airtime providers where to go - because come universal broadband wireless P2P, the airtime providers will be obsolete. Research what FON are doing - same principle. It's the future.

[darjens @ Feb 27th 2009 9:21PM]

I just got an e71 and I couldn't be happier with fring/skype. I use skype in and skype out with it, and pay for a $35/month data only plan from ATT. Half the cost of the iPhone plan and I'm set.

[Stan-O @ Feb 27th 2009 7:47PM]

That's a bummer. They've already forced Nokia to remove the SIP stack from the new phones (and that's what's holding me from buying 5800XM), now if their phones are going to be crippled even more it would totally suck.
Unfortunately crippling phones but getting them subsidized by the carriers is probably more profitable for Nokia. Maybe they'd just cripple the subsidized phones but if you buy an unlocked one you'd have all features, I keep my fingers crossed.

[Bill @ Feb 27th 2009 7:58PM]

All I want from a cellular carrier is for them to be a dumb-pipe - just like my ISP, the postal service and any other utility I can think of. If I want anything else, I get it from other, more competitive, sources.

[tnkgrl @ Feb 27th 2009 8:17PM]

> "another example of them trying to build an ecosystem that is all about Nokia and reduces the operator to a dumb pipe,"

Duh! That's exactly the way it should be... Carries should just be wireless ISPs.

[austinmichaelcraig @ Feb 27th 2009 9:13PM]

Why shouldn't the telecoms companies be dumb pipes? It would drive down prices for everybody, they don't want it to happen because it'll slash their profits, but pretty much EVERYBODY ELSE should want that to happen. It's only a matter of time, they're fighting the inevitable. I say, GO NOKIA for commodifying their service. Let them evolve and compete, or die.

[David @ Feb 27th 2009 9:33PM]

I would buy this beast when it would come out, but the only thing that's REALLY bothering me, is that it has the lame old symbian. Me wants WM :(