We're still not 100 percent clear what Apple's next move is, but we do know they're a
little more than nonplussed about
Pre's ad hoc iTunes syncing methods. Despite Cupertino's update to its support site last night, Palm seems unconcerned, as relayed by a spokesperson to
Digital Daily. In a statement, the company said disabling the sync "will be a direct blow to their users who will be deprived of a seamless synchronization experience" and that "there are other third-party applications we could consider." In other word, it'd be Apple's loss. We're not quite sure we agree there, nor would we really think "stay with the iTunes version that works to sync their music on their Pre" method is really the best suggestion, but hey, we're not the multimillion dollar phone manufacturer here. We anxiously await to see if and when this cold war is turned up a few notches.
posted June 17th 2009 5:11PM
It looks like they are Prepared to take Apple on.
^^the issue is about to be PRE-paired !!!
Apple don want yo stinking pre user monies in there Itunez stow.
Finally, a company I hope will pwn Apple's arse.
Palm can't even be bothered to make their own software and instead decide to piggyback of ITunes?. They didn't even ask permission. Lazy fucks.
@adrian:
The Pre doesn't need software to add files to it but it is nice to be COMPATIBLE with iTunes. It's not like they are saying iTunes will be their flagship media sync software.
What Palm is doing is not illegal, so Apple can't sue them.
It's just sabre-rattling for now. If they did find a way of locking out WebOS devices, it'd probably be much worse PR for Apple than Palm ..... I can't see them doing anything, at least for now.
I see a lot of people condemning Apple before they've even done anything. Anyone remember the multi-touch patent stink and how all the Apple Haters were promising lawsuits from Apple? Never happened.
Be that as it may, I think Apple should rethink any such strategy which includes blocking the Pre from iTunes. Apple shouldn't be worried. They obviously have the better product. The Pre is nice for people stuck on Sprint. Why not keep those Sprint customers in Apple's orbit? The best thing that can happen is that they stare longingly over at those 50,000 apps in the App Store.
But more to the point, those Pre customers are probably buying songs in iTunes. It's all gravy if they are.
@ Pookiewood
Okay, That's fair enough.
Why use bloatTunes anyway?
It looks like Apple is prepared to take on the EU. These uncompetitive practices don't go unnoticed - just ask Microsoft...
@ m3tric
umm, as opposed to super lite and quick Win media player? Is there actually any other software that real people use than itunes and media player?
A guy on another site posted this and I thought it deserved consideration.
PALM PRE IS LACKING BECAUSE OF THE FOLLOWING:
8 GB memory limit
No true apps - only webapps (so weak)
No voice and data at the same time (because of Sprint CDMA network)
No voice dialing (WTF)
No video recording (WTF?)
No voice memos (WTF)
No movie rentals (over the air or otherwise)
No visual Voicemail
No TV show rentals
No audiobook purchasing
No true app store (18 is a joke)
No console-quality games (like Resident Evil, Metal Gear, 1000's of others for iPhone)
No Peer to Peer games
No VoiceOver (the iPhone can read any screen to you, just like a Mac)
No native in-car integration (iPhone has this with dozens of cars)
No podcasts
Crippled copy/paste (for example - you can't cut or copy a webpage or any part of it)
No universal search (crippled - no e-mail search)
Tiny keyboard (iPhone landscape and portrait keyboards are bigger than Pre's real keyboard)
No auto wi-fi login (just jumps on any open network and remembers them all)
No 7.2 Mbps network speed
No Remote Wipe
No Find My Phone feature
Can't function as a Remote for the household stereo (Great for parties, especially with the iTunes DJ feature where people can request songs)
Weak battery life
More expensive than iPhone
Very scratchable screen
No oleophobic protective screen
No real music store (Apple can break the compatibility at any time and I don't want to take that chance)
No Voice Commands (control music playing by saying "Depeche Mode" for example)
No Compass
No multiple and customizable home screens like iPhone (Pre only has one screen)
No Parental Controls
No Video Editing
No onboard Ringtone Creation
No 5 person conference calls
No Webclips
We're so delighted you made the effort, aaron.
@aaron
Kevin did a great list and the best part is the trolls downrank it because they CAN'T refute it. they would rather not look at it than be told the truth... they are all people that believe the earth is flat... fools.
What the hell? Paul A Chapel hasn't been low-ranked yet? What gives?
murmermer: Perhaps the "trolls" are down-ranking it because it doesn't really fit in with the topic in hand, that of the... "interesting" iTunes syncing method being employed by Palm.
I suppose there's also the possibility that the almost nauseatingly obnoxious nature of the post didn't go over too well. Douchebaggery tends to get one low-ranked.
Why on earth doesn't Palm simply enter into an agreement with Apple to have the Pre (and any other devices) supported officially in iTunes? I have no doubt that Apple would demand a lot of money for such an agreement but then at least Palm could pretty much guarantee a level of service to its customers. What everyone can see coming is a time when iTunes doesn't work with the Pre and then it's going to be a series of press releases where Palm blames Apple and Apple blames Palm while the only person actually suffering is the poor Pre owner.
I'm sorry but this is a really dumb move by Palm. I would fully support them in any legal proceedings against Apple if Apple demanded unreasonable monies for support of the Pre in iTunes but this MUST be an avenue to be explored. Instead, what we've got is a 21st century pissing match and Palm feeling pretty smug at it's "l33t" hacking skills, or whatever. Do it properly or not at all.
@ murmermer "Kevin did a great list and the best part is the trolls downrank it because they CAN'T refute it. they would rather not look at it than be told the truth... they are all people that believe the earth is flat... fools."
Um,. murmermer, you *ARE* Kevin, since you have posted the exact same list, word for word, on other posts (see the "Josh on Jimmy Fallon" post). Either that, or you are trying to claim credit for his ideas, since you gave him no attribution for the list and didn't even mention that "someone else" posted it.
I wouldn't even be surprised if you are aaron too.
@Aguiluz
With major screen cracks after some days of usage (even without any drops!), a horrid OS that has widgets instead of true apps and which most advantages simply disappeared in a puff of smoke after 3.0?
And with that lukewarm reception (from COSTUMERS, not I-want-to-piss-apple-products-because-they-attract-clicks-to-me reviewers)? Haha. Thanks, but no thanks.
Flames and low comment ratings will start in 3... 2... 1...
not sure if its illegal but the pre is definitely using Apple’s USB vendor ID and a USB device ID
when connected to iTunes, the pre is labelled as an “iPod”. It’s a hack. If you think Apple would ever allow the use of “iPod” to describe anything other than an actual iPod, you’re nuts.
In terms of legal risk, this move almost makes me think that Palm is trying to provoke Apple into filing a lawsuit.
I hope the pre is successful but this is just shady
hey... skyblaze speaking... this doesn't have much to do with iphone but its an issue I came across today and figure since thisll be a popular article hopefully ill get some knowledgable answers from you at&t peeps....
so.. I got my n97 and I'm all happy as hell and shizzle.. and I figure id go ahead and hook it up with a data plan so I can have myself some internets (I got a G1 already... that's handling all my phone calls and google shizzle) so I hear a lot of you guys say iyou can get a cheap $15 data plan for unlocked phones that at&t doesn't offer... and I waltzed over to a store down by king of prussia mall thinking I can quick hook myself up with one of those... so I ask a rep and after telling her I'm on t-mo she's looks at me like I'm crazy and goes "so you don't want any minutes?????" ai confirm and she's all like "sorry we don't do data only plans" and to myself I'm all like F*CK! what's a skyblaze gonna do????
idk... was she just an uneducated rep or does at&t really don't handle data only shizzle anymore... just figure I ask the community for a lil help... thanks a bunch! :)
What?
Damn English language for being so difficult...
You changed your narrative (point-of-view) about fifteen times in that block of text, amazing.
a skyblaze gonna burn out man
what the hell... forget it. i'll just ask on a forum.
@Skyblaze
LOL. What the fuck? This shit is a joke right. I brought my co-worker in to read this shit too, we were both cracking up. Why do you speak in third person? George W failed you in that No Child Left Behind program bro.
you're from philadelphia!!!
its pretty obvious he does it on purpose. i guess it's his form of comic relief. it works most of the time but sometimes gets him low ranked. the immature people take it seriously and complain and what's even sadder is he's been here for months and they still wanna bash him. he's cool in my book tho
not on at&t so can't answer his question...
"what the hell... forget it. i'll just ask on a forum."
which is what you should have done in the first place...and i don't think that was why the rep was looking at you like you were crazy.
ROFL! why is this comment rated so low?! this is by far the best comment in Engadget history!
Haha. Personally, I thought that shizzle was hilarious.
@ Skyblaze,
I have T-Mobile and a G1 for all my needs. I said to hell with AT&T awhile ago.
Why stop Pre doing something Blackberry has for years? Running scared perhaps?
And Nokia.
Hey, wouldn't it be awesomely funny if Microsoft turned round and told Apple they couldn't use iTunes on Windows any more?
Blackberries do it correctly by syncing to the xml file. The Pre, on the other hand, is mis-identifying itself as an iPod. See the difference?
Mr Pre, you have been found guilty of impersonating an iphone.
and motorola...
Hey,
Winamp has been allowing iPod and iPhone users who don't want to use iTunes except for updates for a couple of years now.
How do they do it, they copy some iTune support files and it all works seamless in Winamp.
To me, why lock out some people that want to use your iTunes store? Also, there are hacks to use other MP3 players with iTunes that hold up well when iTunes gets updated.
I'm just waiting for Microsoft to announce that the Zune store now fully supports the Pre. Since the catalogs are about the same, MS could actually do a lot of good by letting anyone anywhere sync their data and buy their music through the Zune store, the better. Plus a bunch more $15/mo subscriptions wouldn't suck.
If you want to attack Apple in the marketplace, you can't do it with "cool", you can't do it with "new features" - you need to raise the awareness that even amongst their peers, Apple is profoundly anti-consumer in their business practices. They've cultivated a culture of "you're lucky to get to own an Apple product" amongst their fanbase, not "we're lucky to have you as a customer". No matter how much better another product is, the only way to address their market dominance in the iPod / iPhone worlds is through changing that belief. Sure, great features and support will make new users pick one or the other, but you'll never take Apple users back.
Microsoft, Palm - treat your users better than Apple. Let THAT be the reason (not price) that people pick you.
Brad, that crossed my mind too.
If MS actively assisted Palm to connect the Pre to the Zune Store, it would add a bit of legitimacy to the Zune ecosystem.
@sam
apple isn't doing anything to palm. The support comment was generic and related to all PMP that hook into iTunes, of which there are many. It was a standard, "don't complain to us if it has trouble"
it's the media (surprise) that's spinning up the palm angle.
@Cy
Apparently, the timing of the announcement has been completely lost on you. As others have noted, other devices have been using tricks and other means to sync with iTunes for a long time now, and shortly after the news of the way the Pre syncs with iTunes becomes known do they just now decide to make this statement?
Reading and comprehension of what one is reading are fundamental skills. You fail. Apple did not say they are going to stop them. They said don't count on it and don't expect support. As any responsible company would do.
@Eh?
No offense, but I think you're might be missing your own point.
The Pre is doing something that previous "syncers" haven't done-- namely, impersonating an iPod. So yes, it is Apple's fiduciary duty to update their license agreement to cover this contingency. AFAIK, the Pre is the first to impersonate an iPod. ( A quick google didn't turn up anything.) The others just sync to the XML file, while the Pre is pretending to be something it isn't. If Apple makes changes in the protocols at the driver level, and those changes don't jibe with the Pre, what is the cost to Apple's support LOB when all the emails start pouring in from Pre users? Should Apple have to bear the cost for Palm's decision? As a business owner, I think you have to agree the answer is "no."
From my perspective, the media (along with all of the haters) are beating a drum that doesn't even have a skin. @Cy is right; Apple is simply making a statement: kudos for Pre for figuring out how to impersonate an iPod today, but please.. call Palm if we need to change the way we sync with our hardware to enable new features that happen to break your poseur iPhone.
In the end, Mr. Colton said it best... Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... but don't call me when you're lipstick starts to smear.
"In a statement, the company said disabling the sync "will be a direct blow to their users who will be deprived of a seamless synchronization experience" and that "there are other third-party applications we could consider." In other word, it'd be Apple's loss."
Is there anybody in the world who would agree with this? A blind man can see that Apple has an interest in using iTunes as a method to keep their users locked to their devices.
That kind of thinking would get you in trouble if you were in the EU... oh wait, that only applies to Microsoft.
Mario,
Palm is is right, it would be a direct blow to Apple's control of the DAP industry. In essence by cutting Pre users off from iTunes once they are already committed to their Pre's they'll force a good deal of iTune dependent people to becoming iTunes independent.
Guess what iTunes independent people do? They go into stores and actually look at other DAPs than iPods.
With DRM-free music, there's really not much "locking in" to be had anymore.
@Mario,
I completely agree with you, I do not think it would be too much of a loss on Apple's side as opposed to Palm's.
@ Alan
You are also completely correct about the double standard (of sorts). The reason why the EU cares so much about Microsoft is that they are 90% of the computer market vs. Apple's 10%. Microsoft also had a previous history of putting core functions inside applications such as IE, so in the past you could not uninstall IE. I think it is great that users have the ability to uninstall IE, along with other MS programs, without affecting windows, however I actually think bundling is beneficial. For intermediate to advanced users, it is a slight pain, however, for many people, having a browser, media player, and a trial to an office program, is very helpful. Most users (sadly enough) do not know about alternative browsers (or even how to update their current browser), so having these programs accessible from the start is a benefit and one of Apple's biggest selling points (in the case of iLife).
...sorry for the rant
Actually the EU have been plenty mad at Apple recently for separating their European iTunes stores into individual entities and prohibiting other countries accessing the other stores, something that is illegal in EU law. I'm pretty sure in this case Apple are just saying they won't be checking to make sure the Pre works with any updates they make, as opposed to making threats. It's definitely Antitrust to actively try and stop the Pre syncing though, and I would be happy to see them being sued for millions if they tried that sort of action.