Editorial: Google's multitouch dilemma
As anyone who's seen the last Engadget Show knows, we were incredibly lucky to have Google's Erick Tseng as our guest. Erick is product manager of Android at Google, and he's one of the sharpest, brightest, funniest guys around -- it was great having him on the show, and I sincerely hope we see a lot more of him as time goes by. It's obvious that Android is in capable hands.
Of course, the problem with having someone as funny, sharp, and bright as Erick on the show is that they tend to come in extremely well-prepared, and Erick was no exception -- he'd read the many comments where you all asked for solid answers regarding the state of multitouch gestures on Android, and he had his answers ready and polished to a high shine. Like we've been hearing for months now, Erick told us that Android now supports the recognition of multiple touch inputs -- the basic definition of "multitouch" -- and that the real issue is actually how multitouch is implemented. It was a fascinating exchange that I encourage you to watch, but here's the main quote:
In fact, all this talk about Android and multitouch just reminds me of the endless bickering about the iPhone and copy-and-paste before iPhone OS 3.0 came out: it didn't matter that the App Store was redefining mobile software sales or that the iPhone was turning into something much more than just a phone, because it lacked a single feature that everyone wanted. Every conversation about the iPhone involved at least some bitching about copy-and-paste with a side order of moaning about MMS, and it still hasn't completely subsided. And now the exact same thing is happening with Android and multitouch, or "specific multitouch implementations," or whatever Google wants to call it. Pinchy-pinch. Squeezy-weezy. SuperTouch 3000. Guess what? It's not in the platform by default, and everyone is constantly talking about it.
Actually, in some ways it's even worse than the copy-and-paste situation, because the things we've heard Google say about multitouch so far raise some troublesome questions. For example, when we asked Erick why the European Motorola Milestone has pinch-to-zoom in the browser but the Droid doesn't, he told us that "the software isn't in Google's control" when it leaves the US. So... does that mean Google exerts control over Android in the US? How much control? Did it actively forbid Motorola from using pinch-to-zoom in the Droid's browser? Why didn't Google use Motorola's pinch-to-zoom code in the Droid, but use HTC's code in the Droid Eris? And then not use it in the Nexus One? If Google doesn't have any control over the Milestone, why does it allow Motorola to load Google apps like Gmail on it? Until someone can answer these questions in a reasonable way, they're going to keep coming up over and over again.
Of course, there's always a chance that Google and Apple really do have some backroom deal that prevents Android from having native pinch-to-zoom in the US -- Erick refused to explicitly deny such a deal when Josh asked him about "conspiracy theories" on the show. But that's a hard pill to swallow. First, it puts Google at a huge competitive disadvantage from the get-go, which is a terrible business strategy for a company that's pretty damn good at running its business. Second, Google prides itself on transparency and openness, and a secret deal forbidding Android from having pinch-to-zoom flies in the face of that culture. You say it's a patent issue? Nothing's changed since the last time I walked that lonely road: I still have yet to see an Apple patent that covers the pinch-to-zoom gesture, and Palm, Microsoft, and a laundry list of other companies are all now using the move without consequence. Besides, it's freaking Google -- the same company that up and decided copyright law was broken and started scanning out of print books because it wanted to try something new. Even if there is some mythical Apple patent on pinch-to-zoom, Google is one of the few companies that has the financial and legal resources to get it invalidated -- and there's plenty of prior art out there that'll help it along the way.
Look, this is simple. We love Android, and we want it to succeed. But we can't move on to other, more important conversations -- just where is that full Unicode support? -- until the distraction of the multitouch issue goes away. That doesn't mean Google has to code pinchy-pinch into Android 2.2, and it doesn't mean it has to retool the UI. It just needs to tell its customers what's really going on.
Of course, the problem with having someone as funny, sharp, and bright as Erick on the show is that they tend to come in extremely well-prepared, and Erick was no exception -- he'd read the many comments where you all asked for solid answers regarding the state of multitouch gestures on Android, and he had his answers ready and polished to a high shine. Like we've been hearing for months now, Erick told us that Android now supports the recognition of multiple touch inputs -- the basic definition of "multitouch" -- and that the real issue is actually how multitouch is implemented. It was a fascinating exchange that I encourage you to watch, but here's the main quote:
That's a solid, respectable answer, and it was delivered with confidence, poise, and charm. There's just one problem: it's not actually an answer, because the semantics don't matter. No matter how you look at it, the lack of "specific multitouch implementations" is still a huge issue with Android -- one that's become a growing distraction.When people say 'why doesn't Android have multitouch?' it's not a question of 'multitouch'... I want to reframe the question. We have multitouch -- what people are asking for is specific implementations in the UI that use multitouch, like pinch-to-zoom, or chording on the keyboard.
In fact, all this talk about Android and multitouch just reminds me of the endless bickering about the iPhone and copy-and-paste before iPhone OS 3.0 came out: it didn't matter that the App Store was redefining mobile software sales or that the iPhone was turning into something much more than just a phone, because it lacked a single feature that everyone wanted. Every conversation about the iPhone involved at least some bitching about copy-and-paste with a side order of moaning about MMS, and it still hasn't completely subsided. And now the exact same thing is happening with Android and multitouch, or "specific multitouch implementations," or whatever Google wants to call it. Pinchy-pinch. Squeezy-weezy. SuperTouch 3000. Guess what? It's not in the platform by default, and everyone is constantly talking about it.
Actually, in some ways it's even worse than the copy-and-paste situation, because the things we've heard Google say about multitouch so far raise some troublesome questions. For example, when we asked Erick why the European Motorola Milestone has pinch-to-zoom in the browser but the Droid doesn't, he told us that "the software isn't in Google's control" when it leaves the US. So... does that mean Google exerts control over Android in the US? How much control? Did it actively forbid Motorola from using pinch-to-zoom in the Droid's browser? Why didn't Google use Motorola's pinch-to-zoom code in the Droid, but use HTC's code in the Droid Eris? And then not use it in the Nexus One? If Google doesn't have any control over the Milestone, why does it allow Motorola to load Google apps like Gmail on it? Until someone can answer these questions in a reasonable way, they're going to keep coming up over and over again.
Google prides itself on transparency and openness, and a secret deal forbidding Android from having pinch-to-zoom flies in the face of that culture. |
Of course, there's always a chance that Google and Apple really do have some backroom deal that prevents Android from having native pinch-to-zoom in the US -- Erick refused to explicitly deny such a deal when Josh asked him about "conspiracy theories" on the show. But that's a hard pill to swallow. First, it puts Google at a huge competitive disadvantage from the get-go, which is a terrible business strategy for a company that's pretty damn good at running its business. Second, Google prides itself on transparency and openness, and a secret deal forbidding Android from having pinch-to-zoom flies in the face of that culture. You say it's a patent issue? Nothing's changed since the last time I walked that lonely road: I still have yet to see an Apple patent that covers the pinch-to-zoom gesture, and Palm, Microsoft, and a laundry list of other companies are all now using the move without consequence. Besides, it's freaking Google -- the same company that up and decided copyright law was broken and started scanning out of print books because it wanted to try something new. Even if there is some mythical Apple patent on pinch-to-zoom, Google is one of the few companies that has the financial and legal resources to get it invalidated -- and there's plenty of prior art out there that'll help it along the way.
Look, this is simple. We love Android, and we want it to succeed. But we can't move on to other, more important conversations -- just where is that full Unicode support? -- until the distraction of the multitouch issue goes away. That doesn't mean Google has to code pinchy-pinch into Android 2.2, and it doesn't mean it has to retool the UI. It just needs to tell its customers what's really going on.






















So then why didn't you guys just keep pressing him for a real answer?
@EGOvoruhk I can't speak for Josh, but just watching in the audience it was obvious that Erick wasn't going to back down or slip up. Besides, there were other things we wanted him to talk about!
@EGOvoruhk
Do you think if you keep asking Steve jobs about the tablet, "keep pressing him" as you say, he'll give you a real answer?
@Titanium Man
Because that's totally the same thing...
@EGOvoruhk
These guys only answer what they want to answer.
@EGOvoruhk
or maybe Google employees are secretly betting on how many articles they can get out of Engadget regarding this "issue".
@Titanium Man
So then what's the point of having a show or interview? Just post up a press release instead of wasting our time
Next time you see them ask them why are they lying by saying Google only have control over the OS in America when they were asked why the Droid Got multitouch in Europe but not America, Yet nexus one was confirmed to have multitouch in europe but not America AGAIN, it's clear Google themselves are removing multitouch in the US.
Nexus one is Google phone, are they saying they have no control over their own phone in europe?
Everybody knows that Google is trying not piss off Apple and that's it, Google make their money from the ADs not the hardware and I'm sure they don't want to lose the millions of ipod touch/iphone users which come built in with many Google App and Main search engine set to Google in these products.
@GoogleCEO
I'm sorry, and this isn't so much a personal response or attack, but I feel most people agree with your point of view.
"Everybody knows that Google is trying not piss off Apple and that's it, Google make their money from the ADs not the hardware and I'm sure they don't want to lose the millions of ipod touch/iphone users which come built in with many Google App and Main search engine set to Google in these products."
The problem is, Google is far stronger and more influential than Apple. While there is a large customer base to upset by having Apple pull start an attack campaign against big G... The iPhone wouldn't be what it is without Google. Yes, Apple owes the iPhone's success to Google. Imagine how crippled functionality would be platform-wide if you ripped Google maps from the iPhone, not to mention people having to adjust to another (to-be-implemented) mapping system. What's the second best right now? Nokia Maps? Yeah, Nokia will play ball with Apple, LEWL.
If I'm missing something obvious that makes this whole thesis invalid, let me know. Please.
tl;dr
Google and Google maps built the iPhone and it's platform into the mass phenomenon that it has become, and can easily take it away, so why is big G playing ball with Apple and not reverse?
(down votes incoming)
I think the issue is simple. The iPhone has multi-touch. The Palm Pre has multi-touch. Multi-touch is coming to Android, but no one knows when. I love Google, but get a Palm Pre if you want pinch-and-zoom, multi-tasking, 3D games, etc. ...and can't wait for Google. Multi-touch or no multi-touch, Android is going to sell its fair share of phones.
@Nilay Patel
i know you guys are CNN but "bitching"?
@chaos oops. you get the point :P
@kt573
In what world is Google more stronger and influential than Apple. Apple has a bigger market cap, more money, more employees and more profits than Google. Something like 80 percent of Google's revenue comes from search. If Microsoft is able to put up more of a challenge with Bing, Google is in deep shit. As for your rant about the iPhone wouldn't be where it is without Google don't make me laugh. Apple built the iPhone maps application they only used the backend from Google, they could have gotten another company to supply the data. Apple even bought their own mapping company so it seems they are ready to dump Google. Stop overhyping Google's influence.
@EGOvoruhk because bloggers aren't real journalists. sorry.
@Nilay Patel: Too bad you guys did that show a day or two too early...
"he told us that "the software isn't in Google's control" when it leaves the US. So... does that mean Google exerts control over Android in the US? How much control? Did it actively forbid Motorola from using pinch-to-zoom in the Droid's browser?... If Google doesn't have any control over the Milestone, why does it allow Motorola to load Google apps like Gmail on it?"
Add to that "If they don't control it outside the US, how did they manage to postpone the launch in China?" - seems like there's a LOT of contradictions coming out of a well-oiled machine, no?
I think the 'control' issue really should be pressed, and is way more important than something as trivial as a pinch-zoom implementation.
Personally, if text-reflow works well in the browser, I'll take a single handed operation like double-tap zoom over pinching any day.
@Titanium Man And you wonder why they should legalize waterboarding.... ;)
we already know why it doesn't have multitouch, and that is because the only logical reason left is someone told them NOT to implement it and they're complying
getting an answer from them at this point is moot because we already know the answer. my guess is it's one of these "as long as you don't do multitouch, we'll continue to let you ship the google suite on our iDevice..."
@kt573
Apple makes 15 billion dollars more a year than google?
@gallyjh When Google said, that they will release a phone that will be for everybody not to mention for the whole world. They aren't really exagerating in fact now that their most awaited official nexus one statement has finally been revealed. The question if Nexus one is an iPhone killer - Coz, in fact its the 'super phone' as the developers call it for everybody. All the questions about Nexus One Answered:
http://bit.ly/nexus-one-official-details-and-questions
@GoogleCEO First, not every country will get pinch-tp-zoom default browser in Europe.
Second, the HTC Nexus One is just the first Google Phone and the fact that Google sell the phone itself doesn't mean that Google have the control over it.
Third, I have pinch-to-zoom on my old HTC Magic (myTouch 3G) since I have Android 2.0 on it so I don't care.
When you're saying that there is no multi-touch on the Nexus One, it's like saying that Windows is bad for web surfing because it's default browser is IE ... unlike on Apple products, on Nexus One and Windows, you have the choice to use whatever you want.
On Android, all applications are equal ;)
@Kbalz
No they don't want, why don't you go inform yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_inc
The quote didn't make much sense to me.... maybe I'm just out of it.
@Yoda
Nevermind! I'm out of it. Had to read it a few times.
@Yoda
Like you this is not, my young Engadgeteer
Fair article and well written. I'm one that usually says engadget is biased, but I agree 100% with what was said here.
Well done. :)
@Kmobs That doesn't even make sense. Are you suggesting that Engadget is only "fair and balanced" when they say something you agree with? In an editorial no less?
@foresmac Yeah just skip the part where I say its fair and well written. The fact that I agree with it is a sidenote.
Am I not allowed to agree with an unbiased article?
@Kmobs
I agree that the article is more fair and balanced than most. But I feel like if Microsoft had explicitly refused to deny that their product's lack of multitouch was because of a backroom deal with another company, Engadget would have published their straight-forward conclusion that the backroom deal was obviously the reason for multitouch's absence.
I don’t think there is much left to wonder about. When a company explicitly refuses to deny a leaked product we generally say that that is confirmation of its existence….
@atomandroid
If the problem is that Apple and Google have a backroom deal to protect Apple's multitouch gestures, then the real question is: Why the %#@& is anyone allowed to patent gestures??
@Kmobs
I've said it before in regards to WinMo and I'll say it in defense of Android. Multi-touch is a feature. Nothing else. It does not make the OS or the phone experience significantly better. It's nice to have but definitely not worth the hype. I use it on my iPod Touch on occasion and don't miss it on my WinMo phone.
I'm all for giving people as many options as possible. In a perfect world multi-touch would be on every device. That said, making a stink about it is just silly. Unlike copy and paste (which I do use every day), multi-touch falls squarely in the "nice to have" column.
Between capacitive screens and multi-touch I just don't get why Engadget gets hung up over these few minor features.
@Kmobs
Well said kmobs, the article is definitely well-written and makes many valid points. I think Nilay is asking a lot of fair questions and he's also right when he says they didn't keep pushing Erick because it didn't look like he was backing down.
As for the Engadget bias, we have to realize that Engadget is comprised of many different authors and editors and they don't all agree on everything. Topolosky clearly has the most notable bias(es) and this is irrefutable, all empirical evidence supports this claim. However, Nilay appears be a lot more sensible and well-rounded. I'm sure in some ways he's subject to Topolsky's reign and can't in principle refute what the overlord says. Even so, his general smartness shines through and I'm very pleased with this approach to this article.
@atomandroid
@Abe
And the truth is revealed: http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2010/03/09/apple-talks-tough-to-handset-makers/
I couldn't care less about multitouch. Give my the ability to turn my device sideways and allow it to reorient itself without opening that keyboard.
@Evan
Multitouch is pretty important nowadays, its pinch-to-zoom thats a useless/acquired taste. And seeing as Android is only lacking the latter... I don't see what the problem is.
@Evan From the devices I've played with/owned (Cliq, G1, Mytouch, Nexus) They all support it, except for on the home screen.
@Kmobs
Individual programs support it, but if you have it oriented in landscape and are driving with it docked, good luck navigating through to find the phone dialer, etc...
@Evan
My G1 does that. I'm using a hacked version 1.6 or whatever of android though.
It got included in the default features at some point. Have you ever upragded your device?
Or do you not have a G1?
@Evan
YES! Autorotation of the Homescreen is more important than Pinch-Zoom!
@Evan
Just get the appropriate app for that! Oh wait, you said Android, not Windows Mobile.
@Evan
...and I find multi-touch gimmicky on my iphone. I use the double tap to zoom in a lot, wouldn't mind a zoom slider by the side for apps. Is there anything else multitouch is really useful for?
@Evan
The system supports it, but there are specific programs that disable it. I've done app development on Android, and accelerometer rotation is enabled by default unless you specifically go through the trouble of turning the feature off for your program.
If you have a problem with the home screen or dialer not rotating with the accelerometer, just download a replacement home screen and a replacement dialer that do.
@DirtyVegas -- Multi-touch is not a gimmick. I use it all the time to zoom in or out on web pages using my Palm Pre. Multi-touch allows you to calibrate how much you want to zoom in small increments. I also use it with photos I take; for example, zooming into a child's face. So there are many uses for this feature.
@DirtyVegas typing! It makes it a lot more forgiving. You can hit the next letter with your other thumb before your last thumb is lifted.
People forget that flicking to scroll through lists and menus is also multi-touch. As well as flicking from side to side.
@Peter Church
No it isn't. Unless you're using two fingers, which isn't at all necessary.
To explain, I give you a simple analogy: Touch screens work the same way touch pads do, and most of those are not multitouch, but you can stilll put a finger down and move it anywhere and it'll register. Just because that registration is used to move the mouse on a computer and the screen itself on a mobile phone doesn't make it multitouch. Also, most resistive screens can do this trick, eg, the N900 has multiple home screens and is resistive, not multitouch.
@Evan The auto reorientation feature as implemented on the iphone is pretty annoying to me. It is much too sensitive, especially when the phone is laying close to flat on a table. I would much rather have a simple mechanism of manually changing the screen orientation.
Yawn. As if multi-touch makes a difference in the context of Apple owning 95%+ of the application market place.
Android. The new WinMo. Only cheaper.
@Ariel Bender
Ah, I love seeing "lowest ranked" comments! It's really the high point of this site. It's sort of ironic, don't you think? They grey the comment out, so that people will hopefully ignore it - but really it just calls attention to blatantly ignorant fanboism.
It's okay though, I won't judge you for pouting about an article that isn't about the god phone. Apparently everyone else has already beat me to it : )
Does not having "pinchy-pinch" really put Google at a competitive disadvantage? I've yet to hear anyone say they won't get the Nexus One simply because they can't "multitouch."
@aubreyq I don't care for it on gallery or browser, but I feel multitouch helps on the keyboard sometimes.