Verizon iPhone chatter is getting harder (than usual) to ignore
Alright, stop us if you've heard this one before -- but seriously, we've noticed an uptick on the tip lines here at Engadget in the last couple weeks that's becoming difficult to ignore. It's one thing to say "hey, the iPhone is launching on Verizon," but we're noticing a particular confluence of facts that has us intrigued: it'll drop sometime in Summer, possibly in concert with the announcement that Verizon's first commercial LTE networks have gone live, and -- tread carefully here, because this is pretty difficult to believe and we don't want to get your hopes up only to have them smashed into a million pieces -- it'll supposedly even be a 4G launch device. We've gotten surprisingly specific details both from Verizon employees and tipsters whose companies are supposedly under NDA with Verizon to test enterprise deployments of the handset later this year, and they're all sending basically this same message. Read on! Now, assuming there's even an iota of truth to this noise, we can say with some confidence that this thing won't be an LTE exclusive -- it obviously makes sense to include LTE as a publicity stunt (even if it's only used for data and not voice), but considering how limited Big Red's 4G footprint will be in the near term, there's little doubt that this would be a CDMA / LTE dual-mode deal capable of working anywhere in the carrier's network. Phones like the EVO 4G have certainly proven that there's interest in a high-end smartphone that's configured this way.
Thing is, this isn't how Apple typically works -- at all. Three generations of iPhone prove conclusively that Cupertino is all about stringing the world along with incremental handset upgrades that are just barely evolutionary enough to make you want to shell out the cash, and what we've seen of the fourth-generation model suggests that strategy isn't slowing down any time soon. Demand for a Verizon iPhone is high enough so that it seems Apple could easily get away with a considerably less revolutionary CDMA-only model in 2010, saving LTE for a year or two down the road when the network is bigger, silicon is more efficient, and heck, who knows, maybe carriers will have even figured out voice implementations by then. If there's any carrier in North America that could singlehandedly twist Apple's arm into fast-forwarding Apple's R&D roadmap, though, it'd have to be Verizon with its 90 million-plus subscriber headcount. We suppose anything's possible as long as enough backs get scratched, and CEO Ivan Seidenberg has always struck us as the type of exec that'd just love to give AT&T a very public "screw you."
Either way, it might just be a matter of Apple and Verizon agreeing on numbers. Both companies are known to be stubborn in negotiations, and we can see either of them walking away (just as Verizon famously did prior to the original iPhone launch) until the John Hancocks are on the dotted line. Stay tuned -- this should be an incredibly interesting Summer.





















Say it aint so!....
@mrkalel who knows if it's true but It will be pretty darn hilarious if AT&T thinks they got some exclusivity extension only to have something leapfrog right over then instead.
VeriPhone.
@Sherifftruman
S*** just might get real!
I say if it happens this year, it won't be 4G.
@Sherifftruman
first thing i do when i sign an NDA, email engadget!
@mrkalel
To me this is not news it would have been if this was 2 years ago. Now that there are plenty of devices coming that in my opinion are better. I would have bough an iPhone if it had been available in my carrier, too late.
@mrkalel If that is true... it would be quite insane, iPhone's hardware is pretty much stuck since launch. Of course there are improvements with internal guts, however fundamentally it haven't go beyond the first generation design. 4:3 inch screen sucks... I know with ZuneHD.
Unlike Sprint with EVO4G which is a much greater LTE launch device choice...
@Sherifftruman yeah all of us here are more in the know than ATT. If the iphone is going to verizon, ATT already is aware.
@Sherifftruman Word on the street is deal is done. The iPhone IS going to be a launch phone. iPhone HD for Att and iPhone 4G for Verizon.
@mrkalel You know I read somewhere that AT&T managed to squeeze out an additional 6 months of iPhone exclusivity after they agreed to drop the price of the data plan for the iPad 3G. I'll try to find a link for it somewhere.
@Kit The EVO is not an LTE device
@JCerna
Agreed. Even one year ago I would have gotten the iPhone on Verizon if it were available, but no more. I got an Incredible last week and I wouldn't trade it for an iPhone. The ONLY feature that MIGHT pull me away from this would be if it had 4G. The big problems there though are that I doubt it will this year, coverage is limited, and I'm sure it will be a lot more expensive to get 4G coverage. Not to mention I'm sure there will be Android 4G devices shortly after that.
@Air Force One
The iPhone is not going to Verizon this year...I highly doubt it goes to Verizon next year.
Its just wishful thinking on the part of the Apple Haters...
@MrHashbrown that was NOT a news item. it was some analyst who admitted that he was just talking out of his 'hat'.
also was it not Engadget that posted a half dozen articles about how the ATT deal is for FIVE years. yep i believe it was. and it wasn't Exclusive GSM carrier that was being announced but US.
and lets not overlook that China is one of, if not THE biggest CDMA market in the world and yet their iphone is, you guessed it, GSM. Why would Apple diss a market 10 times the size of the one in the US but then party to said smaller market, doesn't make a lot of sense
@TheLondonExchange
What are you even talking about? Why would "Apple Haters" start rumors about something that people have been wanting from Apple for a couple years now?
@thisisit
I would +1 you for the clever comment but your avatar is freakin' ugly, ffs, please change it. Please consult with Peytral for ideas...
@Kit the iPhone uses a 3:2 aspect ratio display, not 4:3. Jes' sayin'. Personally I think 3:2 is the perfect compromise between 16x9 and 4x3. Everything gets black bars, but only slight ones- and if you zoom in you don't crop much. Why they decided to move away from 3:2 and make the iPad 4:3 I don't understand.
@Kit Zune HD is 16:9 ...
@Charlik -- "and lets not overlook that China is one of, if not THE biggest CDMA market in the world... Why would Apple diss a market 10 times the size of the one in the US but then party to said smaller market, doesn't make a lot of sense"
Not so fast.
China has the largest population in the world... but most of China is rural or poor areas.
The addressable Chinese market is only about 50 million people who would be interested in, or be able to afford iPhones.
Verizon has 90 million customers right now... in the country that built the iPhone... and who sees Apple commercials every day of their life.
If Verizon gets an iPhone... it will sell 2 million in a week. No other country can do that.
@mrkalel
I've been with att for 7 years and i HOPE TO GOD they put this phone on Verizon, then MAYBE we can get some decent Android phones on ATT.
@mr88
Oh please you guys have started that rumor since Day 3 of the iPhones existence...and I'm talking Day 3 after the original iPhone launched!
And we all know why you want that. You want Apple's iPhone to lose its cool factor.
@mrkalel it ain't so. VZW has gone on record in the past saying LTE would launch with Data only devices. Just like how every new technology tends to launch on a carrier. Chances are this is in development, and will be released but not till VZW is ready for a voice LTE device. That will happen sometime in 2011. Not beforehand.
The issue is most people under these NDA's assume that something will happen immediately, but what they don't seem to realise is especially with the iPhone it won't happen just yet. What good is it using a dataheavy device like the iPhone when you can't use voice/data at the same time. And yes you naysayers, I have no issues with AT&T I expect data problems since cellular networks were never meant to handle the type of data that the iPhone requires. The fact is most devices before the iPhone used proxies to browse the web, to help the network handle the data better. Even Orange (if I remember correctly) went down from iPhone data. No matter how large and well built out a 3G network is, it was never meant to handle the data throughput that the iPhone requires. LTE is a Datacentric standard, it is meant for heavy data usage, just like WiMax is.
The iPhone WILL launch on Verizon, but not until their LTE network is ready to handle phones. The issue is it's a huge cost issue to make a device just for Verizon when they aren't 100% sure how the market will go. Yes people who are holding out for Verizon to get the iPhone will jump, but how do you quantitatively measure that so you can ensure you don't overproduce and waste more money?
@TheLondonExchange That makes absolutely no sense, Apple liked the exclusivity at first because it allowed them to dictate terms for the first couple of years, but now the iPhone is a success they can open it up to other networks (like they have outside the US).
If VeriPhone also has lot of dropped calls, we know which way to point our collective fingers to...
@TheLondonExchange holy crap, you belong in the looney bin.
@mrkalel how will "verizonwireless" fit into the statusbar of the iPhone
@TheLondonExchange I don't hate on Apple at all. In fact I like their products and even own a few. But not an iPhone.
The iPhone isnt going to any carrier besides AT&T in the US, ever. Its just never going to happen (or at least for another 2 years). It has just worked out too well for both AT&T and Apple. Neither company wants to slaughter their cash cow.
The article also mentions VZW's 90 million subscribers, but fails to point out the fact that only a small fraction of those would even buy an iPhone if it were available to them. And as others have pointed out, there are quite a few of really good phones out right now or are due to be released very soon.
@Air Force One
How do you figure that?
@pishmish Uh, VZW.
@slipdisc Only a all percent is still several million phones. Droid shifts about 1M per quarter US tops (2.3M Moto smartfones worldwide per quarter) iPhone is expected to sell at least that for a whole year (4-5M per year on Verizon). No Android phone has much consumer profile or demand yet. Don't confuse geek lust for market success. Other choices would have little impact this year but would increase a little each year as Android moves from geek to chic. Still, this is a race both platforms can win vs. dumbphone conversions and RIM/NOK/winMo.
@slipdisc
Apple has never had a business partner that they haven't screwed over. And as someone else said, VZW will sell easy, 2 million in a week. And you will also walk into a VZW Corp. Store and see their sales force in goofy Apple/VZW logo'd polo shirts, as well as an iPhone kiosk stand in front of and which you will have to walk past to get to the Droid and other devices.
@slipdisc
I never saw a Verizon iPhone drawing too many customers from an Android device (Droid or Incredible). The game-changer will be that if a Verizon iPhone is released, how many AT&T customers will jump ship to use an iPhone on VZW. I know many people who only signed up to get an iPhone, and won't leave for that same reason.
@samkash I do too just I use words to hint after stating that I've signed a NDA then proceed to mention that a fruity company is going to make a new version of their device that includes enhancements in this case involving network compatibility
@mrkalel I would be flabberghasted if Apple didn't announce one on June 7th.
@pishmish
VWZ
@TheLondonExchange
Dude, you need to take a break.
It sounds like you are treating everybody in this world except yourself as Apple Haters.
Engadget: This is not the only thread this guy starts calling everyone Apple Haters and jump on to personal attack. He should be banned.
@TheLondonExchange I agree with u. If iPhone goes to Verison then verison will have to configure their network to talk and go on the web at the same time. Apple haters are just talking.
@aubreyq
Huh?? It's not 4G anyway, its just a HD screen with a better Camera...
Uh... dude...the phone's been outed
@slipdisc -- "It has just worked out too well for both AT&T and Apple. Neither company wants to slaughter their cash cow."
How will Apple going to an additional carrier "slaughter their cash cow" anyway?
Apple makes the hardware... the carriers provide service. If the iPhone sells phenomenally well on one carrier... why not open it up to another?
If anything, AT&T are the ones who don't want to see the iPhone lose exclusivity... but they shouldn't hold Apple hostage to do it.
It's been almost 4 years since the iPhone was introduced. If someone hasn't switched to AT&T by now... they probably aren't going to either.
It's been said that AT&T pays Apple $600 for each iPhone sold. Not too bad, huh.
But if there are 20 million iPhones on AT&T.... Apple will never sell 20 million *more* iPhones by sticking only to AT&T.
Apple must be drooling over 90 million more potential Verizon customers.
@mrkalel - It aint so...
Verizon and its pseudo 3G SUXs! EVDO taped to CDMA was a “stop gap” cooked up by the Dr Frankensteins in Qualcomm’s labs. It is tech bondo at its best. Even the evolution to 4G (UMB) which would have finally bought simultaneous voice/data ended in Epic failure! And that is why they (Verizon) switched to LTE (the GSM evolution to 4G). Now bring on the LTE iPhone already and stop the nonsense with the “chose data or voice but not both simultaneously” old azz CDMA!
A CDMA/EVDO iPhone with all of the apps that run voice and data at the same time would truly be a "misfit toy". Sayin...
@Charlik
well, this is easy: for enough money. iPhone in china is not cheap. Masses will never buy it, but the affluent would likely not mind switching the carrier. And the smaller carrier is likely to Pay extra to win the rich clientelle.
@aubreyq
It doesn't seem likely Apple will be using Qualcomm's combo 3G/4G chip, but you never know. Although, if Apple can get them in quantity and at a cheap enough price, why not. It does seem premature at this point with such minimal 4G infrastructure in the U.S.
@JCerna
To you it's not news, To me: I don't give a crap, this is news.
@mrkalel
If you're an Apple fanboy, you are a pedophile, and on my watch list...
@pishmish VZW?
@TheLondonExchange
Having the iPhone on Verizon would make it "loose it's cool factor?" Why, because people would actually be able to run it on a decent cellular provider? Or because it would break the monopoly that AT&T has? In some other countries you can get an iPhone on most or all of the carriers. I'm pretty sure the iPhone is still cool there.
@Michael Scrip "Verizon has 90 million customers right now... in the country that built the iPhone"
Not so fast...
What three words are written on the back of every iPhone, and all other Apple products for that matter? MADE IN CHINA. Oh well, so much for great American products.
@Sherifftruman I say give us a hint on the upcoming WWDC on June. Just say yes for the verizon iPhone and stop the teasing. http://j.mp/verizon-iphone-4g
@mukatuna
Sorry... I didn't mean "built"
But you know what I mean... Apple is an American company. And Apple will sell more iPhones in America... because the people who "build" the iPhone in China can't afford one.
China has over a billion people... but only about 4% of them are smartphone-buying customers.