AdMob CEO responds to Apple's new advertising rules: 'not in the best interests of users or developers' (update: Greystripe responds)
By Donald Melanson 
posted June 9th 2010 4:32PM
posted June 9th 2010 4:32PM
We had a pretty good idea what Google and its AdMob division would think of Apple's new rules on outside advertising companies collecting analytics, but AdMob CEO Omar Hamoui has now spelled it out himself. In a post on the company's blog today, Hamoui says flat out that if the changes are enforced as written, they would "prohibit app developers from using AdMob and Google's advertising solutions on the iPhone." That, he says, would "not [be] in the best interests of users or developers," noting that "in the history of technology and innovation, it's clear that competition delivers the best outcome," and that "artificial barriers to competition hurt users and developers and, in the long run, stall technological progress." As for what Google and AdMob are going to do about it, Hamoui would only say that they're going to be "speaking to Apple to express our concerns about the impact of these terms." We've also reached out to Greystripe for comment -- which would also seem to be affected by the new rules -- but have yet to hear back.Update: We just got a statement from Adobe's partner Greystripe, which says Apple's new rules won't prevent it from operating on the iPhone and iPad.
"We are pleased that Apple's new terms and conditions explicitly allow Greystripe, an independent ad network, to operate on the iPhone and iPad platforms. It confirms the value of 3rd party ad networks in enabling developers to earn great revenue with their applications."
– Dane Holewinski, Director of Marketing for Greystripe
They are right, the mobile space needs competition for it to progress, even with stuff that pisses us off, like ads!
@element4life3 I suppose that's true, but as I understand it, Apple is not banning them from running ads. All they are saying is that you cannot get usage statistics from the device, which would obviously give Google or Microsoft an advantage in the mobile phone OS market.
@cashmonee Exactly, were Apple outright banning AdMob, I would call foul, but it seems they are preventing developers from implementing tracking that would provide proprietary information to a direct competitor.
@element4life3
Won't be long until Apple will allow in the iTunes only the music bands designed by them.
@Fragmented
I agree w u, they are all just pissed b/c apple has done a superior job of not only advertising but also protecting their users from all this marketing analytics bull**.
I feel much safer with apple running the show.
@element4life3
Competition and Choice please--you guys need to figure something out. I don't want to see Apple and Google start shutting each other out of one another's platforms. That would be bad for the consumer! Capitalism requires competition and choice...lookin' at you Jobsy. We know you're not so hot on other companies stepping into "your" market to compete...and we know you like to control all the choices...but you're gonna have to play nice or Big Brother is gonna slap you in your FaceTime.
@Sunnyd787 Your last sentence sent shivers down my back...
@Sunnyd787
"I feel much safer with apple running the show."
WTF?? Seriously? People on both sides need to realize that statements like these are idiotic. I bought an Android device, does that mean that I feel much safer with Google running the show? NO WAY! Google and Apple (and Microsoft, etc.) are multinational companies that are solely driven by profit. As is every company. Statements like these, placing all of your trust naively in one company, is idiotic.
As an aside, I bought Android because Google ISN'T in control. I am. If I want to install a different version of Android, go on ahead. If I want to root it without voiding my warranty, step right up!
@Fragmented
The MS should be able to block anything they want from Windows without getting raged on from the DOJ. Stop being an idiot.
Apple's own success + attitude is going to bring the DOJ down on them eventually.
@Mike10010100 Actually they are. Google makes money by gathering your personal data when you search and use their applications.
How did you think they are able to give the OS away for free? For example that Google maps application with GPS you use gives them your location data so if you ever forget where you have been don't worry Google will know... Oh an they hold on to that data for a year and half...
@dxdragon
...And you think Apple doesn't do that too?
@Mike10010100 exactly. plus android is built on a platform to extend the market to make more money rather than exploiting more of the market to make more money. obviously they are both just trying to maximize profit, but google does it in a way that lots of people can benefit from. Apple just wants to run the show themselves.
@Kanga ads is one thing I would love to see everybody shut everybody out.
@Mike10010100 You realize this is related to a cell phone for the love of god. Some of you make it sound like this is life or death.
@corylulu "android is built on a platform to extend the market to make more money rather than exploiting more of the market to make more money"
seriously do you believe half of the crap you typed?
@jsbaugh
Yeah. It's a cell phone. Oh no wait, it's the iPad too. Nvm. Guess that theory went out the window.
But yes, as you point out, it's "just a random phone." But with the amount of success that the iPhone has garnered, it has bad repercussions for competition throughout the market.
@Ben64
It's fine to shut everyone out of ads as long as you're willing to pay for the full price of these devices. Without adds, everything becomes full priced--the device, the software, and the 3rd party applications. I don't really care to pay full price for all that. Besides, ads stimulate the economy, and more specifically, they draw talented app designers for these phones.
In other words, for us who can't blow $1000+ on a smartphone, we'll keep our ads, and we'd like companies to compete for the right to advertise to us--all in all, better for the consumer, better for the economy, better for these companies.
@Mike10010100 Apple always asks for permission before collecting location data and other sensitive information. Why??? Because Apple is not a marketing company (even with the introduction of iAds). That is not how they make money... They make money by selling integrated hardware products... Think about not even mobile me is free (I am hoping they make it free)..
Google is a marketing company and they make money from your personal information. The more of it they have and the longer they can hold it for the more money they can potentially make by either reselling the information or providing custom advertising to their users.
Google is probably the first marketing company to achieve this level of brand loyalty.
How do they do it? Well Google mixes open with free... Providing free services to users that in most cases don't realize they are paying for the service with their personal information... People love free like free navigation on their phone that is connected to a Google server that can keep track of your location...
I wrote this in a another post but the reality is that Apple is not blocking them from placing adds just getting device information. Like location and model... They are also stopping companies that meet the requirements to be able to obtain the data from reselling that information.
I think of this as a good thing since I don't want them to have my data in the first place... This came about because developers were including stuff in their apps that gave marketing companies location data and device information without ever asking the user if it was ok to do so.
@Sunnyd787
I can guarantee that iAd will contain the exact same amount of analytical tracking as AdMob.
The only difference is that apple wants iAd to have a competitive advantage in the space. AdMob's benefit on the iphone platform is heavily diminished without the ability to collect statistics and provide relevant info to potential advertisers. As an advertiser, I'm going to be nearly forced to use iAd for the most targeted & tracked efforts for the iphone market.
@cashmonee But they are outright banning Admob. They are stopping ANYONE getting usage statistics. They are outright banning anyone who is affiliated with a mobile phone platform.
@dxdragon
"reselling the information" Woa woa woa. Those are some heavy accusations there.
"That is not how they make money... They make money by selling integrated hardware products... Think about not even mobile me is free (I am hoping they make it free).. "
But they're obviously trying to expand their horizons. They're not currently in the business of ads, but they have made themselves as such with the release of iAds.
"Well Google mixes open with free... Providing free services to users that in most cases don't realize they are paying for the service with their personal information... People love free like free navigation on their phone that is connected to a Google server that can keep track of your location..."
And at every juncture, there is a statement saying "Would you like us to use this information to better your service?" or "Can we keep this data?" Seriously. It's everywhere in the phone. If Google (or Apple for that matter) asks me if I want to keep my current location available to them to make my local searches more relevant, it's up to me to say yes or no, as always. And it's not like you're forced to use Google maps.
"I think of this as a good thing since I don't want them to have my data in the first place... This came about because developers were including stuff in their apps that gave marketing companies location data and device information without ever asking the user if it was ok to do so."
That's bad. However, why single out those companies that are affiliated with another mobile OS? Why not just do a global ban on ad usage data? Oh, right. Back to anti-competitive practices against Google and Adobe. Carry on.
@cashmonee
"All they are saying is that you cannot get usage statistics from the device, which would obviously give Google or Microsoft an advantage in the mobile phone OS market."
I honestly fail to see what statistics would provide an advantage to a competing mobile phone OS. Can anyone give an example?
How I see this is as if Microsoft denies, for example, Google access to parts of its Windows API on the ground that Chrome is competing with IE.
@Mike10010100 You do realize the similarities between Android and the iOS right? You honestly think if there was no iPhone your Android would look and behave the way it does?
Apple trusted Google and look what they got for it... Rule # 1 don't allow your competitors to get access to data on your systems and products if you can avoid it.
@dxdragon You don't need to use their applications or their search with an android phone. You're completely free to switch them out... with something else is there an app for that on the iPhone?
@WickedEast For starters, several iOS device model numbers have been leaked via such tracking. Developers have been able to access hardware information that I am sure Apple would like to keep close to their chests.
@Sunnyd787 what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
@Dale P
So only Apple gets to use the data, effectively shutting out the competition, and you defend it?
Did you defend Microsoft when they abused their dominant position? I'm guessing not.
@dxdragon
Lolwut? Seriously? Now you're saying that Apple has the right to do this because Google changed their strategies after the iPhone became a success? Stop it! Only Apple is allowed to have a successful and easy-to-use OS! Go away Google! Play in your own sandbox!
Sounds like a bunch of whining to me, just to give iAds an advantage.
@tad604 Well there is an app for everything... Kind of ruins my ideas for new apps since when I search I always find that someone implemented it first...
I keep Google as the default search on my phone if that is what your asking... I prefer Google over all other search engines. I dislike the thought of a Google branded phone because I don't want only one company to have all my data however I do like some Google products.
There are some that I like but find very intrusive... Like gmail love what you can do however their adds are to specific... Someone asks me about flowers and I see only flower advertisements, another day someone asked me about jewelry and same thing happen... It was too creepy so I stooped using it for anything other then ebay...
@Mike10010100 Oh I get it what your saying is if you created something and someone copied it and made money from your innovation you would love it...
Oh and you would keep allowing them into your house because they won’t do it again and if they do they wouldn't use the information they learn to eliminate your product and create a monopoly.
Maybe you are one of those that believes that software as no worth because I am sorry to tell you this but the real worth of any device is the software because without it is not much better than a rock.
The difference between the iPhone and the previous generations of Smartphone’s is the software without it the iPhone would have sucked...
Without the stealing (yes I called it stealing) the UI innovations found in the iPhone Android would suck. They could have built something new and unique however they choose to copy the most important UI aspects a lot of it that most non human factor designers would consider unimportant but are critical for a easy to use phone. You might think that stuff is easy to create but that is after the fact after someone else did it.
I always compare this to the theory of gravity and the story of the Apple following from the tree... How many people probably got hit with an Apple in the head prior to that moment??? How many came up with the theory??? How many would have thought it worked like that prior to Sir Isaac Newton having that revelation??? How many people think it's obvious now???
So yes Android can have a easy to use UI just not at the cost of someone else R&D.
@treats I would only agree if Apple started to block Google on their mobile devices, or if they had a MS style hold on the computer industry.
@dxdragon
Well in that case, the iPhone actually has no new features really besides being compact to a phone. All this stuff are things that were already on Windows and Mac PC's, they just made is smaller. And BTW, to feed your analogy, the Theory was made long ago, but the actual tools to test the theory were more recent. And Apple just had the money to invest in those tools. But if your saying that just because Apple did something first, no1 can ever do it again is also saying that because Apple did it first, there is no room for improvement. There is one MAJOR difference between Apples product and Googles product, Open Source. It makes a world of difference from the customer and developer standpoint. To say that just because Apple got a product out first doesn't mean at all that no1 should be able to compete in the same way. They got a head start and thats what counts. If they were to have "Stolen" the idea BEFORE the item came out, thats a different story entirely, but this isn't the case.
@dxdragon
Also, does that mean that Apple stole the idea of Folders, Multitasking, Tethering, and Turn-By-Turn Navigation on a mobile device? I mean those were all of Googles things before Apple came along and "stole" it.
@dxdragon
Woa! Stealing Apple's UI? Those are some serious accusations. You should bring those up in a court of law and see if they hold weight.
Oh, sorry. They won't. Sounds like some more complaining from another Apple fanboy. Only Apple should be allowed to change things, right?
@corylulu: Actually they are completely different. Apple profits from the sale of their hardware. Google profits from sucking every last bit of data from the usage of their services to provide behavioral 'insight' to drive platform perception and related ad sale pricing.
Google. The gig is up, vampires!
@Mike10010100
Sad thing is, with software patients being approved at the rate they are, they could make a case like this.
Innovation has been limited by technology for years now, we have all had the ideas, but the technology just wasn't there. Now that the technology is there, people are calling those ideas there own, making a product and then patienting it.
Reasons why software patients are such BS.
@dxdragon All this talk about personal information. You are aware that there is no personally identifiable information in what they track, right?
Why do I care that google knows that a person looked for a pizza parlor in Ardsley, NY in google maps on June3, 2010? That's the kind of info they collect. Not "outphase84 searched for greasy, disgusting pizza on central ave in 4dsley on June 3 while wearing hollister jeans and a blue tshirt." It's anonymous and not personally identifiable.
@Ariel Bender
Here, I can distort that same phrase to make Apple sound like the bad one. Hold on.
Actually they are completely different. Apple profits from selling overpriced hardware and proprietary add-ons which people are incapable of getting out of once Apple digs their teeth into all their products. Google profits from providing relevant ads to make the ads more useful for the ad providers and the ad recievers.
Apple. The gig is up, vampires!
@dxdragon I would almost agree with you that Apple is protecting people's personal information.....except that they allow Apple and any other "independent" ad companies from getting and using the data. So Apple isn't securing the personal data just not allowing companies they are competing against to get it.
@dxdragon You seem to be missing some stuff. If the phone didn't notify the user about what services were being used by an app, that's the fault of the OS.
And as for blocking other advertisers from getting the location:
HOW THE FUCK CAN ANY OTHER AD PLATFORM COMPETE WHEN THEY CANT TO GEO-SPECIFIC TARGETING???
Get a clue.
@element4life3
Apple acts like a 5 year old child that keeps making up rules to a game to keep the score in his favor. That will work for a while, but eventually the neighborhood kids will find a new friend to play with.
@dxdragon
nokia gives out free navigation, just saying
@Kanga Google dived in and bought AdMob at a premium price even while Apple was in takeover talks with AdMob - information they must have obtained through their CEO's position on the Board of Directors.
You want to ask yourself WHY they did so, and the answer may explain why AdMob analytics are being blocked from the Apple platform.
I for one will not relish the idea of my competitors being able to "rifle through my filing cabinet" at will.
@tikigawd
Only Apple's iOS doesn't have a dominant position in anything. Not even close. The whole industry is constantly saying that Apple's closed mobile platform is a couple of years from a total meltdown. That doesn't sound like future dominance to me. You can't become a monopoly when there are half dozen mobile platforms available, some with much more market share than iOS. iAds hasn't even launched yet and could be a big flop, so what is AdMob getting so excited about.
@element4life3 Yeah, things would be much safer for us if Facebook ran the show. Or that other company whose goal is to gather and organize all the world's information. What's that company's name? Ah, yes Google.
@outphase84 This is an easy one... Who accidentally puts software into their street view cars that capture data they shouldn't be accessing?
Think it's Google only question is how does this happen by mistake... Btw a direct answer to your question is you can actually check how much data Google says it as on you so it isn't captured anonymously.
@dxdragon You're right, you absolutely can check to see what they know about you.
I was in NY this past weekend. I used my android phone to find places to eat everyday. According to dashboard, they don't know where I searched for. They don't know what restaurants I searched for reviews on. They don't know where I used google nav to drive to.
In fact, the only things they know that they can link to me are the things that I specifically put onto their services, such as google docs.
@treats
You do realize Microsoft was convicted by the DOJ not because of things they excluded but things they included?
Please read a little blast from 10 years ago to learn yourself on WHY Microsoft was bad back then.
http://toastytech.com/evil/ieisevilstory.html
Translation:
Quit being a dick.
@Professor Hubert J Farnsworth
translation: "wahhhh!!!"