Grinding

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  • Wings Over Atreia: Mira, mira, on the wall...

    by 
    MJ Guthrie
    MJ Guthrie
    10.11.2010

    Who is the happiest to be done with it all? If not me (I will certainly defer to those who endured 10+ attempts at the hot heart of magic craft), then I surely rank right up near the top! Yes folks, there is a Santa Cl... I mean an end to the Miragent/Fenris questline in Aion, and I have found it. To those naysayers, those unbelievers who think otherwise, I say I am living proof that Mira does not stand for mirage! I admit, I am indeed grateful to be looking back on the experience, instead of ahead to it. Between the grinding, the spawn camping, and the curse of the RNG, to say that the journey to obtain Miragent or Fenris armor is a rough road is putting it mildly. I spent a fair share of time just being grateful the questline doesn't include belts and hats; I think there would be a mass exodus if NCsoft introduced Miragent/Fenris jewelry. Although each leg of this race has had rough patches, I still believe it has been worth it. Make a final dash past the cut to experience the end of an era: the completion of the quest for Miragent armor.

  • The Tattered Notebook: A newbie look at alternate advancement

    by 
    Jef Reahard
    Jef Reahard
    09.27.2010

    So my little ratonga wizard is fast approaching level 50, and I figured it's high time I started worrying about his AAs. Actually, it's probably past time (he's got a paltry 29 at this point), as I've been too busy running willy-nilly around the world of Norrath flinging fireballs, exploring, and collecting junk for my South Qeynos rat hole. Yes, I've been terribly remiss about properly planning out an alternate advancement strategy so that my furry friend isn't horribly gimped upon his eventual arrival at endgame, but thankfully it's not too late (in fact, it's never too late, thanks to the awesome sauce that is chronomagic). EverQuest II vets may be rolling their eyes at the prospect of an AA article, but for newbs on both the Live and F2P shards, alternate advancement can be a tad confusing if you're averse to reading a lot of tooltips. In this week's chapter of The Tattered Notebook, I'll break down EQII's AA system to give you a baseline of knowledge and a starting point for thinking about your own builds.

  • The Daily Grind: No grind?? No pre-order!!

    by 
    Jef Reahard
    Jef Reahard
    08.27.2010

    This week's internet furor over Final Fantasy XIV's fatigue mechanic has been fascinating to watch. First off, as I'm a relative outsider to the franchise, it's given me an excuse to read up on the title as well as its predecessor, Final Fantasy XI (one of the few MMORPGs that couldn't hold my attention for the full free month). More importantly though, the walls of flame incoming from fans all over the internet about what amounts to a grind-limiting mechanic has been, shall we say, perplexing. Regardless of whether the actual mechanics and their effects have been lost in the language translation (which I'm still unclear on, to be perfectly honest), the fact remains that many, many players clearly want to grind when they play MMORPGs. A quick perusal of the comments on Eliot's article confirms that for many folks, nothing in these games aside from the ability to continually advance your character matters. The question of the day, Massively readers, is this: do you have to grind to enjoy your MMORPGs? Is there nothing aside from character advancement that compels you to play an MMO?

  • The Daily Grind: From start to finish in no time

    by 
    Eliot Lefebvre
    Eliot Lefebvre
    06.04.2010

    There is a grind. There is almost always a grind in any MMO, whether it be the real-time skill progression of EVE Online or the slow acquisition of deeds in Lord of the Rings Online. Conventional wisdom shows that the grind has to be there, that slowing progression is what keeps you playing, and removing it entirely would result in players leaving the game in short order. Anyone who is having flashbacks to the state of MMOs in the heyday of EverQuest would not be entirely incorrect. After all, conventional wisdom at the time was that you had to force players to party early on, or no one would keep playing. More recent games have greatly streamlined the need for grouping, and the idea of being unable to solo to the level cap in most games is a thing of the past. So, would you play a version of your favorite game that removed all of the grind? Would you keep coming back, day in and day out, if there was almost nothing grindy left? Or would you lose interest if the pacing was closer to a game like Mass Effect 2, where any level grinding is almost an afterthought?

  • The Anvil of Crom: She's crafty, but not my type

    by 
    Jef Reahard
    Jef Reahard
    05.23.2010

    Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars. Thither came Joe Gamer, a crafter, a harvester, to grind the gems of Funcom's Hyboria beneath his sandaled feet. Ok, so maybe I embellished Robert E. Howard just a tad with that last bit, the point being to illustrate that there's something a little off-kilter about the tradeskilling system in Age of Conan. As enjoyable as I find the combat, exploration, and various other aspects of Funcom's sword and sorcery MMORPG (not to mention the Rise of the Godslayer expansion), it's odd that I'm almost completely meh about the crafting system. Part of it has to do with being spoiled by more complex crafting mechanics in other games. The other part, well, I don't what it is exactly, but maybe I will by the end of this week's column. Click past the cut for more.

  • Funcom's Morrison asks for your AoC feedback

    by 
    Jef Reahard
    Jef Reahard
    05.20.2010

    Age of Conan executive producer and game director Craig Morrison is no stranger to the game's official forums, and earlier today he stopped by the boards to solicit feedback from fans. Specifically, he's interested in your thoughts regarding progression in the recently released Rise of the Godslayer expansion. "What do you consider to be your first priority for progression in the expansion content? As we move forward it's one of the important areas for us to consider at we look at any potential balance changes to the methods and sources of progression, so I am interested to see what you folks think," he writes. Head on over to the official Age of Conan boards to cast your vote and make your voice heard in the discussion.

  • Difficulty sliders and grind reduction due for Champions Online

    by 
    Eliot Lefebvre
    Eliot Lefebvre
    05.17.2010

    With additions like the melee review patch and the first adventure pack either out or coming on fast, the obvious question about Champions Online is also the simplest to ask: what now? The latest installment of Ask Cryptic certainly does answer the question; unfortunately, said response includes saying "no" to some things that players want. The addition of a base construction feature is a prime example and the biggest negative -- while it's acknowledged to be frequently requested, the development team apparently lacks the time to add it in a fashion that they find interesting. On the other hand, there are features which almost any player can welcome, such as the difficulty slider seen in Star Trek Online, currently slated for release along with the first adventure pack. There's also a promise that the development team will look into grinding as being the most "rewarding" activity in the game via adjusting drop rates and overall rewards. In the somewhat more mixed news category, the team plans to do another review of powers after the adventure pack goes live, although they're not yet certain which sets and mechanics will be undergoing examination. Read the full list of questions and answers at the official Champions Online site.

  • A Mild-Mannered Reporter: Everybody needs a question answered sometime

    by 
    Eliot Lefebvre
    Eliot Lefebvre
    05.05.2010

    If you haven't read Jason Vuic's excellent history of the Yugo, you're doing yourself a disservice -- at least, if you have any interest in terrible cars, history, or just the crazy stylings of Malcolm Bricklin. What does that have to do with today's bevvy of City of Heroes questions, hot on the heels of our anniversary? Well, not everyone can afford the Batmobile. There are places where the Paragon Monorail (aka Justice Mass Transit) won't take you. And on those occasions, well, you truly wish that you'd just dropped the ten dollars on the Martial Arts booster or taken the darn travel power. Onward! Dashel asked: "When will Blasters get more secondaries, original or proliferated?" Soon! Maybe. I've heard tell that we may well be due for another wave of powerset proliferation with the release of Going Rogue, although that's far from a confirmed fact. So Blasters can expect to get some more love there. But we don't have any idea of exactly when we'll see more secondaries as opposed to more primary sets. The trouble is that as Blasters have been designed, they have the undesirable trait that Masterminds share: they've got a setup for one of their sets that nobody else shares.

  • Breakfast Topic: Is it time for a change?

    by 
    Alex Ziebart
    Alex Ziebart
    04.12.2010

    This Breakfast Topic is brought to you by WoW.com's guest blogger program. Want to participate in a future call for guest posts? Read up on how to contribute, and keep an eye on the site for program announcements. I've played World of Warcraft before and absolutely loved it -- I loved it until it became a second job for me. Then when I quit cold turkey, it turned into a bad break-up. I wanted to play it again but didn't want it consuming all of my time. I wanted to level without hating myself for sitting on a chair until my butt hurt, then finding a pillow and valiantly continuing on. It's actually a deep, dark secret of mine (obviously not any more) that I never once got to the promised land that is level 80. I'll admit though, I had a lot of fun with the game. Hitting up instances and running through the well-written quests with friends was loads of fun. I wasn't a PvP god or anything, but I definitely had my good days back in my prime. I'll admit also that I still feel its callings now from time to time, and for all I know, I could be playing again tomorrow. This brings me to an important question. What is it that keeps World of Warcraft players going strong? I remember when I first broke up with World of Warcraft, I went through an awkward rebound phase where I looked for any game I could find that would replace it. The sad part of this search was that I found myself wanting other games to be like Warcraft. The truth is, it may very well be the best one out there. Even if it is the best, I want to know what gets people through the struggle of questing and grinding. As a semi-retired World of Warcraft gamer, I want to know if getting to the level cap is in fact worth the struggle. Is it the journey or the reward? What makes it all worth it to you?

  • Wasteland Diaries: Spinning the wheel

    by 
    Edward Marshall
    Edward Marshall
    04.09.2010

    Every game has a group of number-crunchers that want to get the most out of a character build. Whether you call them min-maxers, power gamers or munchkins, they are intrinsic to any RPG system ever made. They are the direct antithesis of the roleplayer, and often referred to as roll-players. There is a very clear-cut process to maximize your character's power in Fallen Earth. This process is called "Spinning the Wheel". When I use the term "wheel", I am referring to the faction wheel. While some do choose to spin the wheel, most players usually flip the wheel. I'll explain the difference later. So what does the wheelspin do for you? It gives you about 30 extra AP and unlocks all the mutation lines. The important thing here is that you will be noticeably better than those who don't bother to do it. Why would you do it, and how do you do it? Read on.

  • Gold Capped: Automating the grind

    by 
    Basil Berntsen
    Basil Berntsen
    03.27.2010

    Want to get Gold Capped? This column will show you how, and is written by Basil "Euripides" Berntsen, also of outdps.com, the Hunting Party podcast, and the Call to Auction podcast. Don't forget to drop by Onyxia-US this Sunday at 7:30 PM eastern time to get ganked by one of the CtA hosts and take the money of the other one! A good time will be had by all, and we'll be sticking around after the event to chat with readers and listeners! Grinding is a pain. Avoiding grinds is why I got into the auction house in the first place. Repetitive and boring tasks are not fun for most people. Unfortunately, while some businesses are relatively grind free, certain tradeskills require us to do something like milling (inscription), prospecting (jewelcrafting), or disenchanting (enchanting). The more volume you want to sell, the more volume you need to process. I know of scribes who sell 1200g a day of glyphs at an average of 8g each. That's 150 glyphs sold, which means 150 Ink of the Sea squeezed out of northrend herbs. You get 5-6 inks per stack of herbs, so this guy mills a minimum of 25 stacks of herbs a day. Each stack of herbs requires at least 4 hardware events (clicks or keypresses).

  • Milling cast time reduced to one second

    by 
    Basil Berntsen
    Basil Berntsen
    03.25.2010

    There have been reports in the blogosphere that there was an undocumented reduction to the milling cast time in patch 3.3.3. It used to be two very long, agonizing seconds for a scribe to turn herbs into pigments, and is reportedly going twice as fast: a blazing speed of one mill per second. This is a huge deal to anyone who uses inscription to make money. Milling herbs into ink is one of those tasks that limits your production capabilities, and can't legally be done while afk. In fact, the milling grind time (four clicks, and until now, eight seconds per stack of herbs) is one of the reasons I rarely advocate new auctioneers getting into selling glyphs. In addition to generally overcrowded marketplaces and auction house campers, it's a business that requires almost super-human patience. This will probably make the glyph market even more crowded, as the amount of unhealthy AH camping you can do with a finite amount of playtime just went up by a fair bit. [Thanks to Wolfgang Staudt on flickr for the image] Patch 3.3.3 brings about small but noteworthy changes to the World of Warcraft. From a faster CoT, to putting those old Frozen Orbs to better use, to changes to the auction house -- there's several things all WoW players need to know. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3.3 will keep you up to date!

  • Gold Capped: Making ridiculous sums of money on the auction house

    by 
    Basil Berntsen
    Basil Berntsen
    02.14.2010

    Want to get Gold Capped? This column will show you how, and is written by Basil "Euripides" Berntsen, also of outdps.com, the hunting party podcast, and the call to auction podcast. Hi folks! Welcome to Gold Capped. There are many games to play in World of Warcraft: PvE, PvP, achievements, and today I'm going to introduce you to the one that people overlook-- gold making. Not just making enough to cover your expenses, but making unimaginably large quantities of gold. Making it easily, and enjoying the process. Before I jump in, I want to introduce myself and learn a little about you guys. I have a gut feeling that the majority of players are living "paycheck to paycheck" and treat the auction house as an expensive vending machine where they can spend their hard earned dailies money. Am I right? Please select one of the options on my embedded poll!

  • To level no more forever

    by 
    Eliot Lefebvre
    Eliot Lefebvre
    01.11.2010

    There's one constant in nearly every new MMO we play, and for many of us the games we play offline -- gaining levels. And Don't Fear The Mutant recently has set forth a sentiment that we're sure many players have shared -- the absolute, intolerable dread of having to level up again. Of having to go from Level 1 to Level Whatever, quickly at first and then ever so slowly as we creep toward the finish line, a finish that doesn't so much tell us what to do as gives us the option to do what we wanted to in the first place. Sometimes it's a slog, sometimes it's easy, but all of us have felt the pain before of the fact that the barrier to entry gets higher and higher over time. After all, to pick a random example, the community of City of Heroes is full of characters at Level 50. The majority of the game is played out there. It's difficult to suggest a solution that doesn't require partitioning off the world or vastly shortening the level grind a la Guild Wars, but if you've ever found yourself staring at that bar and dreading even stepping out of town to fill it a bit -- and you certainly have -- you may wish to take a look at the full entry.

  • The Daily Grind: Do you play on Facebook?

    by 
    Eliot Lefebvre
    Eliot Lefebvre
    01.09.2010

    Facebook is a haven for simple social games these days -- emphasis on simple. The gameplay frequently consists of nothing more than a few clicks and then waiting for the game to do what it wants to, a type of mechanic once memorably referred to as sandwich gameplay. (There's nothing interesting for the player to do, so you may as well get up and make yourself a sandwich.) And yet games of this breed can acquire more subscribers than World of Warcraft, which is one of those concepts that seems baffling at first, but once you think about it, it's still baffling. The games are certainly massive, multiplayer, and online. About the only thing we could argue they're not is games, since there's little to no skill involved at the best of times. But they certainly don't seem to have problem bringing in money or subscribers, and they're becoming omnipresent. Do you take part? Do you play one or two because your friends do, or several of them? Do you use them to eat up downtime in your game of choice, or do you play them on their own merits? Or do you dislike them precisely because they're barely-disguised treadmills?

  • Chasing carrots, and why we do it

    by 
    Eliot Lefebvre
    Eliot Lefebvre
    01.08.2010

    A while ago, Kill Ten Rats advocated a rather interesting approach to solving the problem of any tedious grind: cheat. More viable in a single-player game (but still possible if you're willing to use methods of dubious legality), the reasoning was to cut away the reward portion and see if you were enjoying what you were doing on its own merits. Two follow-up posts have been made since then, further extrapolating the question and getting into the way our brains fire in response to anticipation of reward. Grind, of course, is both a dirty word and a quintessential part of any current MMO, which means that we generally aim at games with the most enjoyable grind. But are we focusing on an enjoyable grind, or just one that's not too painful as we head toward the end goal? Is the problem with Aion (to pick a game routinely raked over the coals for its grind) the basic structure, or could the grind become irrelevant if it were just a hair more enjoyable? The very structure of MMOs encourages a certain amount of grinding, and it's interesting to take a look at whether we're doing it because the grind is fun, or just because we've tricked ourselves into thinking it's not all that bad.

  • The Daily Grind: How much grind is too much?

    by 
    Eliot Lefebvre
    Eliot Lefebvre
    12.22.2009

    We aren't always gung-ho about it, but somewhere deep down we realize that MMOs kind of need a certain amount of grind. After all, that's part of what keeps us in the game and playing, and there are some areas where avoiding the grind arguably injures your overall experience. But there are still degrees of grind. Guild Wars, for instance, is notable as being largely free of grinding with a few small exceptions. On the flip side, Aion is almost universally agreed to be a nonstop extravaganza of grinding in one form or another, which has been one of the elements that turns many players off from the game. Both are good games, but they're targeted to people who enjoy differing levels of the age-old pastime of grinding. Today, we ask our fine readers how much of a tolerance they have for grinding. Are you able to sit at the computer for hours on end, whistling away as you relentlessly kill things without a twinge of regret? Or does the mere thought of repeating something for rewards send you screaming to the hills? What games have struck you as too focused on grind, and which ones seemed too eager to hand out rewards?

  • Too late to start playing Lord of the Rings Online?

    by 
    Eliot Lefebvre
    Eliot Lefebvre
    12.16.2009

    The trouble with any long-running game is that it gets top-heavy. This is especially a problem in games such as Final Fantasy XI, where you simply have to group to accomplish most things in the game, but it's really a problem even in the most solo-friendly game with an expansion or two. After all, more often than not there's an ever-raising level cap, gear curve, and expected knowledge about the game, not to mention stretches of previously endgame content that's no longer relevant. When A Casual Stroll to Mordor asks if it's too late to start playing Lord of the Rings Online, the question could be extended to many other games. Of course, it's probably not exceptionally surprising that the conclusion is "no," duly pointing out that the only time it's technically too late is when the game is shutting down soon. There are also tips about making the areas at lower levels less of a ghost town, which largely boil down to being proactive. People will almost always have alts or restarted characters, and actively trying to get your foot in the door can make up for a lot of inexperience. It's as true in Lord of the Rings Online as it is everywhere: putting forth the effort makes a lot of difference, even if it won't close the expanded level gap by itself.

  • Dungeon Finder reactions from players

    by 
    Mike Schramm
    Mike Schramm
    12.11.2009

    The long-awaited Dungeon Finder is finally out on the servers, and people have had a few days with it now, so let's jump in and gauge some early reactions. Overall, it seems to be a big hit -- tanks and healers are jumping into groups right away, and while we've heard of longer waits for DPS, it doesn't seem bad at all. While of course the initial flood of people brought instance servers down (I'd expect to see the same thing happen during peak time this weekend), everything seems to be working well since then: disenchanters are correctly dropping items out, loot is getting distributed correctly, and groups are doing what they were always supposed to do: rake in the badges and rewards for players. Hots and Dots actually has a long take on the Dungeon Finder, including "15 Things You Should Know," like that tanks and healers are still as important as ever (if you sign up for DPS and another role, you likely won't be doing DPS), and that we're finding out very quickly just how skilled or knowledgeable people really are ("the Party Leader will be forced to confess midway [through] that they actually know nothing about the instance").

  • Disguising the grind

    by 
    Brendan Drain
    Brendan Drain
    11.30.2009

    Believe it or not, grind is an essential part of an MMO and we might be pretty lost without it. Repetitive content is the cornerstone of the MMO genre but it's not all just smacking monsters over the head for hours on end or completing yet another "kill ten rats" quest. The repetitive elements in an MMO give us predictable gameplay in a form we can digest. We don't feel lost when we pick up a quest because it uses similar mechanics to previous quests we've done. From a development standpoint, the amount of time it takes to create new and unique gameplay for an MMO is quite large and it's just not feasible to churn out unique gameplay with every new piece of content. Instead, developers are forced to re-use the same gameplay mechanics over and over again. So if we genuinely appreciate predictable, repetitive gameplay and it's not feasible to do otherwise, why are we always so up-in-arms about the evils of grinding? In this probative opinion piece, I look at why we need repetitive gameplay in MMOs and the various ways developers disguise grind to keep the game entertaining. Update: Link to page 2 fixed. Thanks Brian!