Sony's MZ-RH1 -- MD lives, alright

You just couldn't let it die, could you Sony? We thought you were all done with the MiniDisc, then you have to drag it kicking and screaming from its silent grave, slap a Walkman MZ-RH1 label on it, and outfit it with even more marginal features that you're probably hoping will make the format viable. Well, adding Mac support via USB 2.0, an OLED screen, and live recording upload support, just isn't going to be enough to validate MiniDisc in 2006, old friend, but hey, it's your cash, produce whatever you like. But if you think we're going to fork over ¥39,800 (about $340 US) for one of these things, you've got another thing coming.

[Via Akihabara News and MiniDisc.org]

[yjs @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:10AM]

Engadget, I don't know why you guys are so close-minded about the HiMD format (a lot different from legacy MD), a lot of people rely on this format to do recording. Voice recording on HDD DAPs suck ass, and a proper record can cost thousands. This is the perfect go-between.

And the industrial styling kicks the crap out of the new 'glossy iPod' styling.

[cuby @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:13AM]

yeah but ryan you wouldn't fork over 350 bucks for a kilt either, would you? but some folks in other countries, where such a thing has a popular history and remains in specialized use, the expense is reasonable.

you could prove me wrong by buying a kilt now.

[cuby @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:19AM]

and hell yeah #1, whatever happened to good old metal styling that gave the impression that what you're holding actually cost more than 10 bucks to produce? this thing looks fantastic, it looks like a piece of electronics, cold and stark, with actual edges, wherein by comparison, holding an iPod feels like shaking the disturbingly soft, lotionized hand of an excessively-groomed, manicured young uberman.

[TheChaz @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:20AM]

Also, the expression is "another think coming."

[7of7 @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:21AM]

Ah, it's good to see the irrational hatred of Sony and irrational love of Apple get p0wned in the comments. Good job guys.

[PanMan @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:21AM]

Actually, MD's have one big advantage: They use very little power: my brothers minidisk can run 40 hours on one AA battery, of which you could easaly take a couple of spares. My Ipod runs out in about 10 hours, and needs a recharge then. That is a big difference if you don't have power for a couple of days, for example if you do mountaineering stuff, as I do.

[Splink @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:25AM]

I have to say - from about 1996-2000, I used an MD player every single day on the train. At the time, these babies were cutting edge, and a lot better than using a CD player - which I haven't heard anyone complaining about lately. This format may not have ever caught on in the States, but everyone in Japan has one of these. That said, Sony should get with the times and start moving towards solid state music players.

[Michele Scasso @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:31AM]

I don't understand why people who love mp3 players hate MD.
Mp3 players have a different approach: you can store lots of songs, but if it crashes your music is gone,and if you stay long away from home you have to listen always to the same tunes.

MD have a different approach: they store up to 1 GB of data or 45 of music, and with several discs you can go on forever. They they are recordable for a million of times. You can record from line, mic, or USB. So it's a lot more versatile. You can record the latest hit from an mp3, or your old 78 vinyl record, or the voice of your baby, then upload it to PC...

Then, if the disc crashes, your unit is still alive...or if the unit crashes, your precious music is alive in the disc.

Then ATRAC+ at same bit rate is better than mp3...

You can hate it, but first you have to know what you can do with it.

[mike @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:35AM]

you know, this might be the most cost-effective solution to make live club set recordings.

[Z @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:35AM]

I love it

[klsommer @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:38AM]

It's "another think coming."

[Dave @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:41AM]

Actually, TheChaz, that isn't the common form of the expression here in the US; and, although the usage here in The States arose from mispronunciation, it is the only form of the expression spoken.

[Timmahhhh!!! @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:44AM]

Yeah, but even if it does have many uses that the crapple fanboy base doesn't understand because they're too busy grandstanding with those stupid white earbud headphones in their ears, it's still crap because it's not boring white and doesn't have an iffy-at-best scrollwheel and/or a very scratch-susceptible screen.

[Greg @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:49AM]

I agree that people need to cool off on the insta-hate of anything MD that seems to plague Engadget. For the MD enthusiast, there's a lot to offer here...

Here's the Sony Europe press release, for those who can't read Japanese: http://www.sony-europe.com/PageView.do?section=en_EU_Press&pressrelease=1142610580314&site=odw_en_EU&page=PressReleaseDetail

Old-school MD uploads to computer, excellent design, more Mac compatibility. It's awesome. :)

[James Rice @ Mar 23rd 2006 10:57AM]

I had the Sony MD Deck/Portable bundle when it first came out, and I am only 24 now :)

[Daniel @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:00AM]

Seriously, Engadget...you guys might wanna rethink your stance on MD. You are knowledgeable about so many products, but for some reason not MD. And it almost seems like you have a fear of it! 'Sup wi'dat? Seriously, try one out sometime before you bash them anymore.

HiMD really is an incredible technology. Has a lot more to offer than most music players today. And runs on almost NO power. It just didn't win the popularity contest because Stevie J. never put his name on it. Anyone who can't even be bothered to put a replaceable battery in a device is up to no good if you ask me.

[Cave @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:01AM]

"everyone in Japan has one of these"

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/feb2006/gb20060223_774050.htm

I don't think so.

Besides, who would be stupid enough to just have their mp3s on just the iPod? If it crashes, surely you have lots of that music laying around on the Mac or PC?

Or do people delete the mp3s after they've ripped their CDs, or downloaded from wherever?

[ChillyWilly @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:01AM]

Climbing on board in 1992 with the MZ-1, I've loved the MD format. Even today, I still find my very aged MZ-R3 and my stack of a 100 or so MD discs and take a listen. It's a format that I'll always find a place for in my gadget arsenal.

I do like my iPod and the idea that I can have 3900 songs in one device. But as bwapod said, one of MD's biggest strengths is the ability in field recording. I can't tell you how many times I used my MD to record interviews, concerts, secondary soundtracks for a video shoot and many other things I did in my heyday.

The $340+ new model is very nice, but pricey. If given an open budget, I'd pick up one of these when they come to the states. For now, my needs don't require anything I don't already have, but if that changes, MD will be a major consideration.

[rich @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:12AM]

The battery life on MD players, the fact that you can replace the battery on the fly, the recording abilities, the form factor of the units and the quality of the new atrac3plus codec all have me leaning towards purchasing a model such as this one or the mz-rh10 for my next DAP.

[mastershake @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:12AM]

Here is a great product that just never got a strong foot in the consumer market. Sony, do you want everyone to own one? OK, here's what you do....make it read and write umd's

[Ethan @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:13AM]

It seems like there are still a few MD enthusiasts out there, particularly in the music community. I think every MD fan recalls the tiny square disc's cameo in The Matrix, yet it didn't impact the public. I think the MD format could explode into the mainstream if it were built into PCs as a media source. Of course, you can get this in Japan, but aparently there's no market for it in the US. USB connections marginalize the credibility of MD as a "real" format. Maybe Sony will figure this out and add built in UMD drives to future PCs and laptops.

[Frangible @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:13AM]

Yes, MD hardware is nice, and the design/construction is far superior to most MP3 players today, including the fragile and poorly built iPod Nano. But Sonicstage still sucks. I gave up MD in the NetMD era, and haven't looked back.

As far as recording goes, there's a lot of flash/hard drive based products that can record from line and mic sources to MP3, WAV, and other formats.

Finally, regarding power efficiency, flash-based MP3 players are more effecient than MD units, but their internal batteries are smaller and of lower capacity than a AA cell.

[thomas_h @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:19AM]

""15. Seriously, Engadget...you guys might wanna rethink your stance on MD. You are knowledgeable about so many products, but for some reason not MD. And it almost seems like you have a fear of it! 'Sup wi'dat? Seriously, try one out sometime before you bash them anymore.

HiMD really is an incredible technology. Has a lot more to offer than most music players today. And runs on almost NO power. It just didn't win the popularity contest because Stevie J. never put his name on it. Anyone who can't even be bothered to put a replaceable battery in a device is up to no good if you ask me.""

or, maybe ipod and hdd players are more successful because they are much easier to deal with.. you can have lots of songs in one single device and you dont have to bring md's with you.

[Josh @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:21AM]

I disagree with the notion that the MD is dead...although it's not really a product that has stood up well in the consumer market. Mp3 players are more convenient for people who want to listen to tunes. But, as far as recording goes:

Audio professionals know all about the MD's usefulness. People like me have been using them for years as a great alternative to the DAT recorders to do live source digital recording. When I bought my MD recorder in '95, it was about $300, and DAT recorders started around $800. Nowadays, they make direct CD recorders, but you just can't beat the portability of the MD Recorder either. I still use mine all the time, and will continue to do so, because digital transfer is much easier to with software/hardware than with a DAT or similar format. Besides, I can go to concerts and patch right into the sound board, and insert tracks on the fly. Try doing that on your Mp3 player. Oh, wait, they don't do that...

I think Engadget might be looking only at one angle here. For playback, yeah, the Mp3 players have it hands down, but for recording, you can't beat a full-function digital recorder that fits in your hand!

[NYK @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:23AM]

Glad to see ppl in the comments giving MD some praise. Before it became reasonably affordable to buy a 20 gig MP3 player, i really think MD was the best way to go. Not to mention how stylish and unique the players/recorders were. I never understood why hardly any MP3 players come with a remote like on most Sony MDs. That was by far one of my favotire features of MD, and again it was very stylish.

[mduser63 @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:23AM]

I plan to buy one of these, especially since it has Mac support. I've been using Minidisc for several years, and while I now use an iPod for music, MD is still my favorite way to record things. With Hi-MD, they've added support for high-speed digital uploading of recordings, making the format all the better.

[Max @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:24AM]

I loved MD, I had a netMd and it's still knocking about in my room. It lasts 56 hours on a single AA battery, if you load it up with duracell M4 or whatever they are it goes for longer. Seriously impressive piece of kit, though sonicstage was a hunk of crap. They could have easily made a plugin for WMP, itunes and winamp. Or just accept Mp3 format...

There are loads of reasons MDs disappeared, but there are some good reasons why they're still around. Awesome for recording live gigs, everytime I'm at a small to medium gig they're recording it all to minidisc. Awesome.

Anyway. My ipod 30Gb video has a crap battery life. Ipods are great though, it's a mobile backup of my entire music library. Just yesterday my computer funked on me and I could just restore it all. 30GB minidiscs? Now that would be awesome, Imagine a blu ray MD!! HAHAHAH. It would be about �9999999999999

[david @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:26AM]

no one has yet to mention how resistant the MDs and to a lesser extent the players themselves were - to the point where they seemed almost indestructible.

another thing i like about the MD players is the possiblitly to use both aa batteries and the internal lithium batteries which are easily replaceable (at least on the models i have)...

only big complaint was with the software, but i have no idea how things are now.

[loyukfai @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:34AM]

The problem IMO:

Has to use Sony's proprietary software (SonicStage?) and codec (ATRAC?) to move music in and out, AND they're not as user-friendly as iTunes, and not as common as MP3.

[Nate @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:35AM]

Mp3 player players are so much easier to use as far as time involved with actully getting the music in a portable format. Granted, MD is awesome for recording, but theres a smaller market niche for people who actually record to people who only want playback. The time involved with transfering mp3s onto my ipod (even my old nomad II) is fast in relation to how long it takes to convert your mp3 collection to Atrac3 to then be loaded on you MD. That extra step makes all the difference, why would you want to convert all your music to a dead format when you can just use Mp3s instead? I can remember my MD player sucking at that, I know its easier now but I recall burning my mp3s to a cd, then using my set top box to convert that cd to my MD recorder... in a 1 to 1 ratio, so 60 minutes of time involved to convert 60 mins of music to MD. This is why I jumped the boat at least...

[marcus @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:38AM]

As far as playing mp3's on it no thanks I use my psp. For recording a bands performance from a soundboard through the line-in, untouchable.

[Chrs @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:41AM]

One big advantage that I found the MD player has over the iPod and most other MP3 players is the stow and go functionality that the wired remotes give you. You have a slim wand that controls all the functions of the MD player, a display of song title and other info (back light on many), and a decently long reach. I own both HiMD and iPod and each have their uses. My HiMD stays in my backpack for biking to and from campus because of the ease of use the remote gives me (not having to take it out and put it back if I want to play, stop or change songs) and battery life. The iPod stays in my car hooked up to my Kenwood deck where battery life isn't an issue and provides me with podcasts, play lists, and audiobooks for long drives. I don't think one is better than the other, just different uses for each.

And to be clear...Sonic Stage sucks @ss!

[Dan @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:46AM]

Wow, you know there's a lot of hating going on here, from both ends. I'm an Apple lover/addict, ever since I switched from PCs two years ago, but I'm a huge Mini Disc fan too. Great merits on both sides, these aren't mutually exclusive people.

So MD people, show a little love, apple's products generally rock (Hi-Fi blows ass). Apple people, keep an open mind about MD, it has many merits.

Most of all, share the love.

[bigmouthstrikesagain @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:52AM]

they support mp3 now don't they?

I have a Sony MD Walkman - they've been slapping the Walkman name on these at least since 2001, I think... it's an old model so ATRAC only but never thought SonicStage was that horrid to use. That said, give me drag-and-drop ANY day over anything else.

iTunes, the software, not the store which I don't use, is a nice way to manage your music, then I drag-and drop onto my cheapo Lexar Flash player.

still think iPods are a bit meh, nothing really "cool" or "l337" about them.

I still use my Sharp MD recorder for live recording and even for listening to music, wowiee... anyone know if these new Sony recorders let you change levels while recording? that was the single best part of Sharp MD's, but those guys seem to be leaving the market with no Hi-MD players from them.

One thing, when I use my little bright shiny metallic Japanese Sharp and Panasonic MD players on the subway, people stare at them, nobody looks at iPod users anymore unless it's to rob them.

oh yeah, I am still annoyed that Sony went with Hi-MD for music and UMD for the PSP rather than using some kind of universal next-gen MD format that worked on both.

[jimmyuk @ Mar 23rd 2006 11:59AM]

From the comments above, it's clear the MD format is not dead. I dont think many owners use them as their prime device. I certainly dont. I have a NW-A3000 for my "bulk" device, and a NW-E405 for the gym/running. I seldom use my HiMD NH1 for listening to ripped music (at least, not anymore. It was my sole device back in my poor student days). Where the MD shines and is, IMO, unrivalled is in recording and uploading music. Yes, Sonicstage used to be what can only be described of as the devil's spawn, but the latest versions (from 2.3 up) are rock stable, if still a little slow. With v2.5, you can now upload any tracks recorded on your HiMD to your PC via USB. They also added mp3 support some time, although it is "wrapped" on the fly when transferring.

I dearly hope Sony (a company I have absolutely no love for) continue with this format.

[ken @ Mar 23rd 2006 12:04PM]

Ryan, nice way to get everyone's panties in a bunch! Such a commotion!

[Pat @ Mar 23rd 2006 12:05PM]

If one could hack this to use as a field data recorder from a USB DAQ or other sources it would sell well in engineering circles.

[Dr. J @ Mar 23rd 2006 12:08PM]

Yes, some models now have direct MP3 support, although you can't just drag and drop the mp3s into a data folder like you can with a flash-based MP3 player.

I think HiMD is a really cool format, and this design is awesome. (Make sure you click through and look at OLED display.) Plus, the MD format in general has always been particularly useful for me. I often archive meetings or teleconferences on MD, and the format makes it really easy.

Kudos to the crew here for smacking down the irrational hate. I do prefer standard mp3 players for everyday music use, but when I need something more (i.e. recording, a multi-function data/audio device, or something with more than 10 hours of playtime) MD wins out.

[o rly @ Mar 23rd 2006 12:27PM]

It seems that for Ryan, the only thing that could save the MiniDisc is if Apple made the iMD player. Even if it had the exact same functions as the latest Sony player, it would be a hit because...it's an Apple.

Whenever you get off Steve Jobs, do a side by side comparison with your latest iPod and a MiniDisc player (even an older generation one) and the MD player will win out in sound quality & battery length; and after it's won, it'll start recording your lame excuses & sob story on the MiniDisc to replay for everyone on Engadget at the next second by second Apple press conference coverage.

[Jeff Lewis @ Mar 23rd 2006 12:28PM]

Sony should have used HiMD as their disk technology instead of UMD in the PSP. Or more accurately, they should have created a 1.5GB read only version of the HiMD form factor, and then put a drive into the PSP that could use both ther read only 1.5GB version and the rewritable 1.0GB version.

That would have made the PSP more useful and it would have given the HiMD format a big push.

Alas, as usual, Sony's left hand doesn't know what its right hand is doing, while stabbing its right foot with a fork.

[JD @ Mar 23rd 2006 12:40PM]

Right on guys. If you're just playing music an mp3 player might be fine for you, but if you are interested in *recording* or even just *storing stuff for the LONG-term*, minidiscs are unbeatable. Great audio quality, high capacity, fast transfers to/from your computer, and inexpensive media that is unaffected by temperature, magnets, water, age, you name it.

There's some great pictures and more thorough description here: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14814

[Torontoguy @ Mar 23rd 2006 12:45PM]

I'll buy one when it becomes available. I already have a Net-MD and a Hi-MD. I even have a MD receiver in my car...but the strength of this system isn't in playing the usual pre-recorded drool that the record companies (and download services like iTunes or Sony Connect too, I suppose)keep dribbling out of the corners of their senile mouths. The people who frequent those places don't care anything about music...they are just interested in looking 'cool'. No, the strength of MD is in LIVE recording NOT downloading or ripping CDs.
Go into any radio station and you'll see MD. the average person isn't going to spring for DAT but MD is affordable. (Of course, DAT is on the down slope too). There are interesting solid state recorders like the Edirol but look at the cost difference between a 1Gb memory card and a 1Gb MD disc. MDs are cheap enough that you could reasonably consider keeping your originals on MD and storing them that way. The files that you have edited...they can be on your system but the originals can be kept untouched.
There are more music downloaders than there are people who want to record and so, that is where the money is, I suppose. The irony is that if it wasn't for the people who are passionate about recording, the parasites would have nothing to download.

[David O @ Mar 23rd 2006 12:56PM]

Another thing coming? Hell I might actually ditch my iPod for one of these...!!!

Well, OK maybe not. But HiMD sound quality is far and beyond better than ANYTHING coming from the HDD DAP camp.

[Swedish Mafia @ Mar 23rd 2006 1:06PM]

I have the Sony MZ-DN430, picked it up at the WAL-mart for $50.00. Includes NetMD, which is a USB port. As Stated earlier the battery life is incredible on MDs. As a Native New Yorker I asking you Ryan to show the MD some.
Now where is my portable DAT recorder????

[GitsLM @ Mar 23rd 2006 1:09PM]

and engadget did it again ... why the f*** cant you stop bashing on Sony ? I do not want to discuss for the need of a product I want to know the specs. so please please please stick to the facts.

[ginnal @ Mar 23rd 2006 1:14PM]

BTW Atrac hasn't been a requirement for MD for some time, you can store as mp3 if you like.

[Arvind @ Mar 23rd 2006 2:20PM]

Engadget, what are you smoking? Get up to speed with MD, this unit is f*-ing awesome!

If you head on over to the MD forums, you'll see that roughly a third of the posts (its only a slight exaggeration!) are about how to upload SP and MDLP tracks. This is the first ever MD unit that has allowed the user to do that - hats off to Sony for finally listening to their users and giving the format its due. As a Mac user, the mac compatibility is music to my ears.

What I use MD for - My old Sharp bookshelf MDLP recorder that is connected to my XM radio records the great dance music that never makes it here to the US.

Now - I can upload these tracks to my computer and burn a CD!!

[Trey @ Mar 23rd 2006 2:25PM]

Sony bashing is easy and fun, we do it because we love 'em, not becuase we hate 'em. They are a great company but they just don't seem to have a clue whats going on, just like a senile relative!

It may be too late to save 'em though as Samsung and Apple will definately kill Sony's various market shares.

I've just ebayed my MZ-N10. I bought an NW-HD3. Both devices have their pros and cons. The key issue for me is why didn't Sony carry all the cool MD design features over to their hard drive players? Comment 31. is right on, STICK REMOTES are sweet.

I'm about to turn my back on the big 'S' and defect to Apple and get an ipod, just because they are easy to use and I can hook it up in my car my office etc. etc.

When the question is asked 'Who Killed Sony?'. We can all safely say not guilty. They did it to themselves.

[christopher @ Mar 23rd 2006 3:24PM]

hmm.. with that price, I would buy 2GB Nano AND pretty-darn-good-dedicated-easy-to-use-solid-state voice recorder plus some regular earphone.
Screw Sony.

[Brian10 @ Mar 23rd 2006 3:25PM]

Too little too late. I bought a NetMD recorder a while back and found out I couldn't transfer my recordings via USB to the computer. The only way to get there was the analog line-in route. Pure crap.