HDMI specific Xbox 360 Elite details emerge
By Conrad Quilty-Harper 
posted Apr 1st 2007 12:59PM
posted Apr 1st 2007 12:59PM
If you've been oooing and ahing at the Xbox 360 Elite's HDMI connection -- which really should have been there all along -- then this is the post for you: a source at Microsoft has posted specific details of the Elite's HDMI capabilities. Apparently the Elite will only support the 1.2 HDMI standard, and not the 1.3 spec which would have enabled TrueHD or Dolby Digital+. As such, you'll have to stick with regular DD, DTS, and WMA-Pro for your sound output. It also only supports dual channel PCM output, not full 5.1 channel, and if you want full 5.1 PCM output the tipster cheekily recommends "purchasing the Toshiba A2 player" which is much cheaper than the $479 Elite. At this point the complexity of the tech talk takes a step up, as amirm refers to a fall update that will bring support for "different video levels for VGA output" which could potentially improve fidelity and HDCP handshaking support on displays operating at 1080p. We suspect that around half of the people that started reading this left to read our interview with fake SJ somewhere around the point that we mentioned "dual channel PCM output", but what do the three people left reading think about these HDMI deets?[Via Loot Ninja]
I'm happy with 1080p over component for now.
You mean, 1080i over component, right?
So.. uh... Is Microsoft serious about making their fans go out and buy the new box for the HDMI support, at $479, and only half-assedly support it?
I hate to say it, but the PS3's price point keeps looking better and better each day.
Before everyone goes crazy, I want to announce that the Xbox 360 is built for gaming. The multimedia side is just extra. But, remember, that's through HDMI. You get another cable with the 360 Elite that allows you to use optical and other hooplah.
I'd agree. If you want to watch a movie, and want HD DVD, get the Toshiba A2.
That's not the point though. They are making an "Elite" product but are not including everything that they feasibly could.
Sure, the multimedia side might just be extra, but then why make a new SKU? Why not just release the bigger hard drive?
If you're gonna make a completely new system, make it worthwhile. They could have just made the cooler-running 65nm chips standard across the line and optional black color scheme.
This just adds unnecessary confusion without any real payoff.
You can play 1080p games over component, just not movies.
There is 1080p capability with component!!!!! Not as good as hdmi though. I personall for the 360 use vga.
It does give the option for optical audio to be used with HDMI, so in essence, there is no real need to be able to support 5.1 on the HDMI cable as the cable hooks up to the TV and TVs don't have 5.1. If you want 5.1 on HDMI 1.3 you still have to run an optical cable from wither your TV or your xbox360, and Microsoft is saying why bother with 1.3 when they can run an optical cable straight from the xbox360. So yes, there still should be a way to get 5.1 and HDMI, just not on one cable.
Problem with the 5.1 over optical is it doesn't support Full bandwidth 5.1 DD+ and TrueHD soundtracks. It will simply convert these to DD or DTS and send it over Optical. This is why you need 5.1 PCM over HDMI, to allow these high bandwidth codecs to be decoded into PCM and passed through to your receiver. So yeah, the new Xbox 360 Elite isn't so elite after all. The old 360 can do everything this one can just not through HDMI.
Do not get me wrong i love the xbox, but i do not really care about the HDMI unless it is the full deal. All i want is the HDD.
man... im just gonna stick with my xbox 360 for now.... im not gonna go spend another $500 for the same thing...
It's probaly because they're going to make the next gen Xbox even more superior than what they have now. This is just the beginning. Next gen Xbox is probaly going to have many more capabilities and be better than right now. The current 360 is cool, but the next one will be even better.
Next gen is already here ...its called the PS3.
Does the 1.3 standard require a different HW connection? If not I guess this could be addressed in an update later.
@liqwid I disagree. The 360 was built as a multimedia platform...and it's a pretty good one.
I am interested to hear more about the improved VGA. I hope we see that soonish.
#1 NO WIFI
#2 NO REMOTE CONTROL
#3 NO internal HDDVD drive
= WASTE OF MONEY
I'm starting to believe that Microsoft just put the system out in Black (like Apple did the Ipod) so every single school kid out there could come to school saying "HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW XBOX?"
It does the exact same thing as the old one - and the newer chipset only runs cooler - not providing any higher performance.
Include a fairly priced Wifi in the system and the remote control at least. Overpriced pieces of...
WiFi = Extra cost
Remote Control = Extra Cost
Internal HD-DVD = Mucho extra cost
As I, and I'm sure many other 360 owners, really don't want these features we're glad they are not there as they would just push the price up.
Remote Control = To lazy/stupid to use the joypad as the remote.
Microsoft made the right decision in not slapping a next gen drive into the 360. Not only would it up the price but it would also limit them. With the external drives they have left their choices open. Right now they only have an external HD-DVD drive but who's to say that they won't release an external Blu-Ray drive at some point? Or even better a dual drive.
Well from what it sounds like those of us with the current gen xbox 360 using vga and optical will actually get better sound then those who get the elite? II have mine set up that way to my surround sound and I thought i was getting TrueHD audio when I was watching movies through th ehd-dvd player? Am I wrong?
Umm Mr. Nevelo S I believe you are wrong. You can get full digital sound via optical cable. Optical sound actually works better then HDMI in most cases because it can do the same quality and is more adapted to the receievers.
@Roland Haas:
You can get 5.1 over HDMI, just not the next gen audio formats such as DTS TrueHD or DD+, you still get vanilla Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1, these were/are supported on the HDMI spec from day dot (1.0), its just that HDMI 1.3 adds support for the next gen audio formats.
Yeah, you can't get True HD audio from an optical output (as far as I've heard), you need the HDMI 1.3 for that. Since Microsoft didn't include it, it isn't possible to watch your HD-DVD movies with TrueHD audio on the 360. For the guy who said that you can't get 5.1 sound (and thus TrueHD) from an HDMI anyway when it's hooked up to your TV, that's also true. What you should be doing however (if you have the budget) is hooking it up to your av-receiver.
While I can agree with the extra cost of adding the HDDVD drive, it would not cost MS as much to add wifi as it is costing to add HDMI.
#1 The Wifi unit is OVERPRICED by about 90%. That cheap little device should cost no more than $10, ($40 if you are determined to make a profit).
It would cost MS far less to add a Wireless G or Wireless N adapter to the internal components that it did to redesign the entire backside for the HDMI output. Wireless signals permeate the case and require no case changes.
#2 There is a reason to have the remote and its very simple. Some people use their 360's as a media center (as it was intended by advertisement). A controller is big and clunky, and terrible as a remote.
Why are you so quick to call a CONSUMER lazy/stupid?
Obviously they weren't lazy enough to make the $400 to spend on this overpriced piece of plastic.
Stop with the fanboy bullisht
So disagreeing with you makes me a fanboy? My last console was an Xbox which I bought when Halo 2 came out and now I own a 360 (Premium).
Yes SOME people use their 360s as media centres but the magic word is SOME.
"Obviously they weren't lazy enough to make the $400 to spend on this overpriced piece of plastic."
Or they got their parents to buy it for them.
"I'm also a big dissapointed I have to actually pay $50 a year for Xbox Live when my PS3 is free - and PS3 is the newer, beefier system."
The fact that everyone agrees that Xbox live is miles better than anything Sony has to offer. Hey sell your Xbox and go play online with your PS3 if it bothers you that much. I'll stick with my 360 and Xbox live.
I'd say the fact you bought both consoles is a sign you need to get out more.
In response to Wifi, and mostly to BloodFalcon, yes, the Wifi is 90% or more overpriced. I paid $5 after rebate for a great USB 802.11b/g dongle. And don't forget, even the Nintendo DS and the Wii both have built in wifi, and for the price of the 360 wifi adapter you could buy a good portion of either of those systems.
Maybe April fool joke? If MS “Elite” so technically inferior to PS3, I wonder what piece of s… they selling for 399???
well if i am to pay 80 more bucks for the color black, hd dvd and some other components that are truthfully uneccesary for the average gamer. why should i buy it?
we are now in a day and age where everything is constantly updated and nothing ever satisfies the consumers thirst of greed. iF you really wanna add something make it compatable with a whole networking with in your house. so it would be an all around system and have eletrical plug in's that all play off each other and have an optical turn on. seriously. how lazy will we become?
How stupid are you?
Dude, make more sense.
LIke another guy said, i'm more interested about the vga settings. Hopefully it'll include a option for native 16:10 resolutions such as those used by most widescreen monitors.
Actually, optical does support 5.1, but it has to be a 5.1 encoded source such as a DVD movie or 5.1 encoded game. My creative X-Fi has no problem sending 5.1 over optical from a movie to my logitech z5500s.
They should have made the dvd drive removable so it could be upgraded to hddvd without an extra box/cable.
ALL released versions of HDMI (including even 1.0) can output uncompressed multichannel PCM. HDMI 1.3 is not required.
What about up-conversion? Any indication that Microsoft will at some point add HD upconversion for standard DVDs now that there's an HDMI connection?
The Xbox 360 already offers DVD upconversion, but only over VGA. It is not allowed over component.
Fortunately, it is allowed for HDMI, so I'm sure it will have it for both VGA and HDMI (but not component).
These FACTS ARE WRONG.
HDMI 1.3 NOT NEEDED to support TrueHD or DD+. 1.3 ONLY adds a better color space and bandwidth support for 2k and 4k video. In fact HDMI 1.3 is not even really needed. The Toshiba HD-A1 is HDMI 1.2 and supports TrueHD over HDMI. My Onkyo receiver is also 1.2 and using TrueHD is no issue.
Toshiba HD-A1 is HDMI 1.0. It doesn't do 1080p, it only does 1080i. The HD-A2 is only 1.0 as well. Only the HD-20 does 1080p over 1.2, and is going to be sold for $499
It's not that 1.3 is required it's that the Xbox 360 does not have the capability to output HD audio. From the insider: "I was not talking about HDMI data path. But internal data path in 360 for audio on the way out to HDMI bridge." Read the rest of that guy's posts please.
check this out, i pasted it from an xbox forum, it makes a lot of good points.
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There's a lot of misunderstanding about what it all means. People are even getting defensive about it because it doesn't jive with their own vision of how things should be.
First, I want you to consider the PS2. It launched at $299, and was $299 until Xbox decided to drop, and PS2 followed. The price has continued to drop until it got to the price it is now: $129. During that time, it has sold over 110 million consoles worldwide.
Now look at that from Microsoft's point of view. There's a potential market out there of at least 110,000,000 consoles. Most of those won't happen until the 360's price drops. The 360 has a lot in common with the PS2: Launched a year early in all territories, had a large amount of games available before the competition hit the street with their console and a small handful of games, and will hold its lead AND IT'S PRICE for a couple of years before the first drop, allowing them to actually make some money on the console for a change.
There's one big difference. The PS2 was the PS2 was the PS2 and if you wanted one, you got... the PS2. Parts and pieces came and went, and depending on when you decided to jump in depended on which system you had: thick or thin, HDD compatible or not, Network adapter included or optional, progressive scan DVD or not, quieter fan or not, i-link or not...
Xbox launched the same way. It was a "get the foot in the door" approach by Microsoft that cost them a lot of money, but paid off in the long run. MS was now treated as a serious player in the game industry. One console. Period.
With the 360, it took a different approach: Two versions, an entry level and a hardcore level. It was a way for them to launch big AND at the same time, capture that first "price drop" customer.
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10 million people now own 360's, but there's still 100 million potential customers that Microsoft wants playing their 360 and buying 360 games. What do you do to get 100 million people to jump in?
Oh yeah, it's easy to say "drop the price." MS is known for ALL the money they've made and continue to make, and somehow that justifies biting the bullet and just giving stuff away because they can. It doesn't work that way. One competitor is priced so much higher than what is expected for a game console that even some hardcore gamers are passing, at least until THE killer games arrive. The other competitor entered at the price-drop price point with a novelty controller and has not been able to meet demand.
With a situation like that, there is no reason at all to drop the price. The console is not selling to many people's expectations, but it is not selling poorly at all, and the games are blowing the doors off.
So here's what Microsoft has done in an attempt to capture the 100 million gamers who haven't committed yet to this generation.
They've offered a choice.
Three, actually.
There's good: An Xbox 360 that plays all the same games as the rest of the 360 family, no hard drive which keeps the price down, and a choice of either a 64MB memory card (now $29.99) or a larger 512 MB memory card ($49.99), less than half the price of a hard drive. The $299 Core, for entry-level 360 gamers.
There's better: The Xbox most of us own is exactly the same as the Core, with the addition of a hard drive for storage and a wireless controller instead of a wired one. It also supports the memory cards for moving your gamertag from one console to another as well. Everything the Premuim does, the Core does, and vice versa. The $399 Premium, for active gamers.
And now, there's best: The new Xbox that is identical to the Core and Premium in EVERY way, but for two: It has an HDMI port for televisions that support it, and it has a larger harddrive for 360 owners who do more downloads or want to store more music. Oh, and it's black, which doesn't affect the performance. Much. The $479 Elite, for gamers who are also videophiles.
All the drives, all the chips, all the guts are identical.
The systems come with three variations of television hookup: Composite for the Core, Composite/Componant for the Premium, and HDMI/Composite/Componant for the Elite. The Elite also allows you to use you choice of HDMI for audio, or Optical/RCA for audio if you want to run it to a surround sound.
The systems come with three variations of storage: None, 20 GB and 120 GB. Wanna change what your system uses for storage? Then pick your storage of choice: $29 mem card, $49 mem card, $99 HDD or $179 HDD.
What does this mean for you, the gamer who already owns a 360?
NOT ONE DAMN THING.
This is about the customers 360 doesn't have yet. Sure, you're not exempt from "movin' on up" if you want. There's a couple of ways to do it. One, if you want the HDMI, you can just buy yourself a second 360: an Elite. Trade in or sell your original and apply it to the purchase price. Two, you can just buy the HDD. In the "big picture" you will have spent more than the actual cost of an Elite, but you're only having to come up with $179 now, and not $479. And you can probably still get a few bucks for your 20GB drive from a Core owner.
Understand: this move isn't about placating current owners. It's about offering options to new owners. Sure, I wish I had an Elite. Would I have traded the past year and a half of gaming to have one? Hell no.
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I want to talk a little bit about the cost of the HDD. I'm going to fudge a little bit on my NDA, without shattering the thing to holy hell. The 20 GB drive sells alone for $99. I know what it actually costs. No, I'm not telling. But I will tell you this: MS is NOT screwing you over by asking $99 for the drive. I know you can get drives cheaper, even much bigger drives. But those drives work with multiple devices and that drives the cost down. Xbox drives work only on Xboxes and that makes them more expensive. They can't sell them to 3,000 other machines to drive the price down. I know, I know... Sony comes with a 60GB and allows you to use any additional drive. Now the Elite comes with a 120GB - twice the size of Sony's, so you don't HAVE to add an additional drive. With the Elite, you STILL get more for less. It's also extra insurance against hackers working their way into the system.
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Now, about WiFi. Remember when it was Wireless A? How about B? G? Tomorrow it's R or L or F... I dunno. But once you build a permanant device into a machine that utilizes a technology that is constantly changing... you've got a few choices: One, take an established standard that is well rooted. Two, try and predict the future and act accordingly. Three, offer it as an optional and changeable. (Most really active LIVE gamers perferred wired anyway. If you've played with someone with a slow router... you'd understand).
For One, that is what Microsoft did with the DVD. Blu-Ray might win the next gen war. HD DVD might win the next gen war (if they get off their asses and release some movies.) Or HD content might come through streaming or downloads. But DVD is set in stone so that's what Microsoft chose for the 360 disc format. DVD WILL be a viable format five years from now. But they added the HD DVD drive as an option for movie lovers.
For Two, that is what Microsoft did with broadband in the Xbox. Boy did people poop pottery when MS made that decision. They weren't even to the end of the generation before the PS2 Slim started shipping with a little sticker on the back that said "broadband only."
For Three, that is what Microsoft chose to do about WiFi. It's changing too fast. You lock it down, you're stuck with it. It's a bad position they may find themselves in by including HDMI AT THEIR CUSTOMER'S REQUEST, because as the standard moves from 1.1 to 1.2 to 1.3 and on up, what you got is what you got. It's not something that could be added to the existing tech like a WiFi adapter. It required changing the board which is why they didn't just come out with a cable and adapter. They did it for you, or rather, the people who want such things. It's there if you want it and you can pass if you don't. But when it goes to some other standard (all optical video/audio?) they'll have to modify it again, and current 360 owners will be chaffed AGAIN, but it's the nature of the beast. If you want to be cutting-edge, it's going to hurt. That's kinda why they CALL it "cutting edge."
You think the PS3 is future proofed better than the 360? Is it doing upscaling? The new version will. Is it supporting rumble, that last gen feature? Apparently, it will... again. But where Microsoft is offering you choices, Sony will just change the console like it did with the PS2, and what you get depends on when you jumped in. Tech changes, and you either adapt... or stay old and change your controller.
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65 nm chips. For the uninformed and in layman's terms: it's the 360 CPU, on a smaller chip that puts out less heat and costs less. IF and WHEN they finally go to this chip, most likely you'll never know. IT IS NOT IN THE ELITE. There's no obvious performance difference adn unlike a DVD tray that pops out for inspection, there's no way to check under the hood to see what chip you've got... and it wouldn't matter anyway. It is my opinion that basing your console buying decision on whether the chip is 90 nm or 65 nm is like saying you want the pink one. It's a matter of preference, not performance, but do what you like.
Wow. This isn't a jump from composite to component. Who really cares about this crap.
As long as MS doesn't require a 20gb download for a game, I could care less about the specs of this black box.
I bet the percentage of people who really care about this upgrade are very very small.
Laugh... I have both and there isn't any reason to think PS3 is any better than the Xbox especially if you are talking about games.
i just really want to know what hoops you are going to have to jump through in order to get all of your data from your old 20gb hdd over to the 120gb hd on the elite.
I agree with mmiikey, most gamers and movie people would rather use the ether net port. Wired will always be more reliable. I just want to know if the Elite includes gigabit ethernet like the original should have.
What exactly makes this system so elite? A bigger hard drive and an hdmi output? That doesn't justify the price hike, The PS3 is looking like a better option already. Why would they not include HDMI 1.3? It allows for passing of the next gen audio formats, but also runs much higher color depth. Current HDMI tops out at 24 bit color at 1.2. HDMI 1.3 can run up to 48- bit color. For you computer guys out there you know how nice that is.
YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT MAKES THE ELITE SO LATE?
The fact that Microsoft is watching SONY's moves so they can decide what to do next.
As much as I agree with you that the PS3 is more "Next Gen" than the Xbox 360, I am sorely dissapointed that all I can do with my PS3 is use it as a net browser while waiting for Warhawk and games (that I actually want to play) to come out).
I am glad I bought both systems cause C&C3 isn't going to come out on PS3 and MGS4 isn't coming out on the 360 - I don't wanna miss out on anything.
I'm also a big dissapointed I have to actually pay $50 a year for Xbox Live when my PS3 is free - and PS3 is the newer, beefier system.
How could you look at the PS3 online network and Xbox Live and say you like PS3's network more?
In my opinion, SONY did more things right in building the PS3 than Xbox did building the 360.
#1 CHOOSING A NEXT GENERATION storage standard.
Blu Ray is outselling HDDVD (partly because Sony offers incentives to buy the BR movies) but ultimately, Blu Ray can hold more data than HDDVD so even if BluRay fails as a game disk, it will most likely succeed as a storage media. I don't see it failing though.
Blu Ray is supported by many more companies than HD DVD. I find it suspect that Microsoft supports HD DVD just not enough to instal it in their flagship game system.
Putting BluRay in the PS3 was brilliant because it gives the PS3 more boasting points - and when you compare the $500/$600 pricetag of PS3 to the common $1000 Blu Ray player, it justifies its price tag.
[ALSO REMEMBER - that because PS2 came with a DVD player at a time when DVD players were $800 or more, it allowed PS2 to sell extremely well in both America and Japan as a DVD player for people not neccesarily enthralled in gaming]
#2 INCLUDING WiFi
People on engadget can keep claiming that gamers dont need WiFi but thats just fanboyism. Wireless G is all that is needed to get solid speed and connections from a wireless lan. The problem is that MS's wireless adapter is about 90% OVERPRICED at $100 (making a can of fish eggs look like GOURMET CAVIAR). It should only be $49 at MOST. Just like the wireless headset which should cost less than $20 yet they are pimping for $50. Microsoft is milking unweary gamers for as much $ as possible.
If you are so certain that wireless standards are so quick to change, why has MS not changed with them? Why has MS not released a new 802.11N router (painted Black) for wireless homes?
#3 PS3 can be played FREE over the internet and can be used as an internet browser that does pretty much everything an entry level internet PC does. I know cause I have both the PS3 and the 360 (just so happens I am using the PS3 to type this as I speak). The only downside to the PS3 is the lack of killer apps at launch. Where is my Warhawk? Where is my Twisted Metal?
#4 $100 for a 20 Gigabyte HDD is a RIP OFF. Only a fanboy could claim that it isn't. I got a 200 Gigabyte HDD 20% cheaper than that from Tiger Direct
I love the fact that you call me a fanboy when you are blatantly a Sony fanboy. Specially when you start spouting all the "Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD" crap.
I think you said it best when you said, "I'm also a big dissapointed"
If you don't like your Xbox and XBox live then sell it. I, for one, wont miss you.
WiFi is not needed. WiFi is really only needed for portable devices that get moved round a lot.
Oh and I really am not surprised that you are using your PS3 to browse the internet since most people I know with one say thats about all it's good for.
Take your Sony fanboy whining and go cry me a river over your poor selection of games and lousy online play.
"#4 $100 for a 20 Gigabyte HDD is a RIP OFF. Only a fanboy could claim that it isn't. I got a 200 Gigabyte HDD 20% cheaper than that from Tiger Direct"
Yes, but only a fool could overlook the fact that the specific comparison made is completely invalidated by the fact that it is comparing two different types of hard drives.
Everyone and their mom knows that you can get a 3.5" DESKTOP hard drive for less than pennies on the megabyte. Try sourcing that same hard drive in a 2.5" LAPTOP form factor, the ones used in the 360 and other semi-portable devices.
Try looking up your 200GB 2.5" hard drive. It'll run you maybe $200 average street price.
I'm not saying the hard drive isn't overpriced, but regardless, you're still a moron.
"65 nm chips. For the uninformed and in layman's terms: it's the 360 CPU, on a smaller chip that puts out less heat and costs less... There's no obvious performance difference... It is my opinion that basing your console buying decision on whether the chip is 90 nm or 65 nm is like saying you want the pink one. It's a matter of preference, not performance, but do what you like."
Eh, wrong.
A 65 nm chip is like getting the same horsepower sports car, but instead of getting only 15 mpg, it gets 25 mpg. I personally want the 65 nm chip for four reasons.
1) As a customers somewhat concerned with the bricked 360s I've read about, it seems that going with a system with an even slightly redesigned mobo/chip will perhaps reduce the risk.
2) It runs cooler--something that will most likely reduce the fan noise complaint
3) It runs cheaper: using the smaller fabrication will drop power consumption too.
4) It's actually cheaper: I'm hoping Microsoft will find it in its heart to pass the savings onto the consumer, given the cheaper fabrication costs.
Yes because Sony is always original.
PS3 has motion detection. Oh wait Nintendo Wii came out with that before the PS3.
PS3 has rechargeable controllers. Oh damn the 360 had them before the PS3 came out as well and you can even change the batteries on the 360 controller.
HDMI output? I'll stick with VGA thanks since most HD TVs don't have the exact HD resolution.
So lets see what does the PS3 have that no other console has? Oh yes that's it. It has Blu-Ray and the reason is has blu-ray has nothing to do with Sony trying to inflate the blu-ray figures by touting PS3 buyers as blu-ray buyers.
If the PS3 is so brilliant why do Sony fanboys feel the need to constantly try and put the 360 down ?
"If the PS3 is so brilliant why do Sony fanboys feel the need to constantly try and put the 360 down ?"
Your putting ps3 down right now youself
MOTION SENSING control has been out since the video game crash of 1983.
POWER GLOVES and U FORCE were just two examples of all the stuff the Japanese had already tried on a dozen other systems before the FAMICOM.
Guess what, rechargeable controllers have been out since the days of ATARI - thats right... Atari had a wireless, rechargeable controller too.
You really aren't saying much at all.
SONY isn't trying to inflate Blu Ray prices, it doesn't have to. Anyone with half a brain can read the specs for both formats and instantly realize which one is better. Only a fanboy would bring up the points you have.
Unlike the Sony fanboys (ie BloodFalcon) I'm willing to admit the 360 has some faults. I never said the Wii was the first machine to use motion sensing nor did I say the 360 was the first device to use rechargeable batteries. My comments were that both had these features BEFORE the PS3.
This whole pile of rubbish reminds me of the Playstation and Saturn releases. Sega had made a very powerful machine in the Saturn but then they read/saw the Playstation specs and realised it was a much more powerful machine. So Sega went and added a load of extra power to the Saturn making it a lot more powerful but a nightmare to code for.
Now what machine in this current 'console war' has taken a few years to come out and is hard to program for ? Sony wiped the floor with Sega and Nintendo when they released the Playstation but now they are falling behind.
The 360 is pretty much a games console first and a multi media centre second. I'm not sure Sony know what they want the PS3 to be. It's taken almost two years for MS to change the hardware in the 360. It's taken Sony just six months to change the hardware in the PS3. And just how many firmware updates has the PS3 had?
If you don't like the 360 then don't buy one. Take your insecurities and stick to posting in PS3 articles. You don't see me posting in the PS3 articles putting it down do you ?
I just believe that microsoft low balled the elite. If you watch the interview everyone has seen with the marketing guy from M$ he blatantly says the system is aimed squarely for the big media users, hence bigger HDD. They have have their core and premium systems to undercut sony's prices and thats just fine. I have been waiting for hdmi in the 360 since i bought it. I'm a huge video/audiophile. Yes i do realize I'm the minority, BUT THATS WHO THE ELITE IS FOR!!! It's for the people who have the money and are willing to spend it to get the cutting edge stuff. It is wrong to say "if you want HD disc capability go buy an A2." I have the money and could if i wanted to but its nice to pay 200 instead of 400, its nice to have one less piece of equipment plugged into my receiver. Go read sound and vision's review of the sony ps3's capability as a blu ray disc player, its better than some of the standalone players that are available right now! I have my 360 jacked through ethernet and the no wifi doesn't bother me but would have been handy, bump it up to 500 even and i'd still buy it. If this system is aimed squarely at competing w/ the ps3 it has failed. M$ you half assed something that had potential to be awesome. The single reason (realistically) that people had to buy this system, other than it being black, you botched. I have been excited about this for the last month and now probably won't purchase one. They should have just called it the xbox 360 mediocre and made it grey.
Being none of the games or the HD movies from Marketplace have uncompressed audio I do not see a single reason for it on the system. This is the content they are trying to push, not HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. For the price of one HD movie, whether it is blu-ray or HDDVD you could own the 4 best South Park Episodes, rent two HD movies and own your favorite arcade game of the past without going to the store even once, or even getting off the couch for that matter:)
The future isn't about bigger and better Audio and Video Resolutions, it is all about digital delivery. I know there are many people out there that hate the idea but you can't deny it
It wouldn't be a surprise that Microzombies make a new console next year. I would see Mocrozombies customers crying about it.
I own a PS3 (I always say that so people can say that I'm at least TRYING to be fair, instead of being a fanboy)
I think Microsoft had the potential to ABSOLUTELY crush Sony with this machine. and no, I don't mean adding a HD-DVD.
here's what they should've done.
*HDMI 1.3 (just to shut fans up)
*a better processor so it won't get that dreaded ring of death
*lower the first 2 SKU and mark Elite at 400
That would KILL Sony, but instead, people are seeing Sony PS3 as more reasonably priced than before. Big mistake.
seriously theres no point in buying the elite.
#1 No wifi
#2 blu-ray
#3 No DVD-DRIVE
The only thing that the new system has going for it is the 120gb hard drive. but hey if u want more space go and waste ur money on the 120gb sold seperately for 179.99$. Your choice
I think people complaining about the lack of HDMI 1.3 and no built-in HD-DVD don't get it.
If you're such an audiophile that you want Lossless 5.1, you should be a lot more concerned about the fact that you're watching movies on a frickin noisy ass video game console. It totally defeats the purpose.
PS3 is a different story. Blu-ray players are uber expensive, so the PS3 is a good deal if only for Blu-ray. That's NOT the case with Xbox and HD-DVD. You can get a standalone HD-DVD player for a lot less. So if you are an audiophile, why on earth do you want to play HD-DVD movies on a noisy Xbox? And thus, why on earth would you care if the Elite doesn't have the 1.3 spec of HDMI?
Audiophiles don't buy any console to watch any movie, ever. They buy quality movie players i.e: Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1. Also, an audiophile won't use HDMI to run audio. They run toslink or digi-coax. If you're going out and buying Wilson Audio speakers with Mark Levinson amp's and pre-amp's with a Runco plasma, you won't care about HDMI 1.3 vs 1.2. Most people that play their consoles on a surround system are usually running a "Home Theater In a Box" and HDMI 1.3 won't change a thing for them. Also, less than 10% of gamers have HDTV's, and less than 1% of those TV's have HDMI 1.3 in.
I can't get over the fact that this forum is already three pages long. Stop bickering over stupid things and just discuss things. Quit crying how one little thing is better than another. PS3 sucks because it doesn't work with ANY universal remote. Xbox 360 sucks because they give you options.
Also, stop claiming PS3 is more powerful than the 360. They are equally good because sure, PS3 has the "Broadband" processor, but it only has 256MB ram for the GPU and only 256MB ram for the CPU. Plus, it's a pain in the butt to program for the Broadband so most game developers design their games for the 360 and then adapt them to the 360. However, 360 only has three processors but they are three amazingly powerfull processors.
Finally, no more using the "web-browser" factor for the PS3. If you want to use your computer on a big screen, why not use the WHOLE computer on the big screen.
Stop the BS please!!! The XBOX 360 is a blatant ripoff and a flawed system. Anyone that looks at the specs, sees what is available, and still buys the thing isn't thinking.
#1 A 120GB 2.5" SATA HD can be found all day long for a retail price of $80. Cost to Microsoft in volume should be around $40. They are charging $179 for a $40 drive. You can't use your other 20gb drive for anything else so you just have to throw it away. Why do people think this is acceptable?
#2 Microsoft includes a wired headset along with a wireless controller. If you want the wireless headset you need to pay $50 for an inferior headset compared to most bluetooth headsets at the same price. Including the wireless headset would not have added that much cost to the elite and should have been included.
#3 No integrated Wi-Fi. This is just idiotic. Implementing Wi-Fi would barely increase the cost and I hate to break it to the blind following of fanboys that Wi-Fi is a big deal and the majority of high speed internet households have or are planning on adding wireless. Not to mention the city wide wireless plans that are being put into effect. People in apartments that can't run wires through walls use wi-fi and often need to since phone jacks for DSL may be 100 feet from their TV. Microsoft charging $99 for a USB Wi-Fi adapter is plain robbery.
#4 HDMI has been added but isn't fully supported. Its really more like DVI and not true HDMI. If you are going to put a port on the box put a full spec port.
#5 The needed changes to the internal components haven't been made. The smaller chip is not available and the cooling system has most likely not been changed either. This points to problems with 65nm production and shows that the chips might not be made any time soon.
The 360 may have a larger game library than the other next gen consoles but it has been out for over a year. The majority of this game library is available on other platforms so other than a small percentage you don't have to miss out on a game if you do not have a 360.
I read that everyone here is complaining about the elite not having HDMI 1.3 But the real issue is having a receiver that can USE it. I know that my recievers, both in my living room and theater room don't have 1.3 it will be a little while before i get one that does. And I don't have cheap recievers. The one down stairs is Denon 4306 paired with Deftechs and my theater room has a Pioneer ELITE vsx84. Both do hdmi switching over 1.2 upconverting to 1080p if i so choose and both are 2000 dollar recievers purchased this year.
Have to love how all the PS3/Sony fanboys have to flood every 360 related article with sad attempts at putting down the 360 in an attempt to make themselves feel better about all the money they just blew on a PS3.
@Carbonize
Why are u getting so bothered that people are pointing out the mishaps of the X360? I mean, they call the system "Elite" yet it obviously lacks the nex-gen equipment. I mean no WIFI... U all can bicker about the 65nm chip and HD-DVD blah, blah, blah, I could care less as long as I can keep playing my games but NO WIFI... Thats absurd!!! I mean thats a cheap fix. I'm definitely not saying get rid of the hard wired ethernet, but some of us have our HDTV's in the living room, no where near our internet connections... NO WIFI... I'm still scratching my head on that one
Don't get me wrong, Gears and Lost Planet are the shizz, but I'd really like to be able to play them online... And I don't want to hear " No one wants/needs WIFI, blah, blah, blah." Judging from the high quantity of sales of the overpriced wifi adapter(as well as every 3rd or 4th post), internal wifi would have been welcome!
BloodFalcon could possibly be a sony fanboy but you my friend are just as much a microsoft fanboy if you can't admit that the new X360 is quite a bit less then "Elite"...
As I said in my comment earlier, "Unlike the Sony fanboys (ie BloodFalcon) I'm willing to admit the 360 has some faults."
I don't see the Elite as a replacement for existing 360s but just a new higher end version. This whole debate began because of people saying stupid things like it should have HD-DVD built in ( why? It would just increase the price of the machine just for the few who would use it) and it should come with a remote ( err isn't that what the joypads for? )
Guess I'm lucky in the fact my cable modem and router are in my living room right behind my TV (40" Sony Bravia HD TV just to show I'm not a Sony hater. I also have a PSP and a Sony Ericsson K550i mobile phone).
I mean after some of the intelligent arguments I have read (ie not those of BloodFalcon) I am willing to accept that WiFi possibly should of been included at the standard 54G. I just looked on eBay and the cheapest Buy Now WiFi adapter for the 360 is £41 (about $90).
The SE K550i is weak sauce. Step up your game before you start droppin' names.
I care about 1.3 because I feel that it should have been included if you include HDMI. If my box is going to sit in my living room for the next five years, don't you think that I should want to future proof it as much as possible? Also, my receiver takes HDMI 1.3. I don't use TOSlink. I use HDMI. I also expect a lot of compensation for my 479 dollars. Like the ability to play Gears in 48bit color, not 24bit. But you know what, it doesn't matter because an "Elite" gamer only needs HDMI v1.2 and 24bit color. An "Elite" gamer doesn't need to future proof his system because he's too hardcore of a gamer and can drop five frankies at will.
I'll give you the Universal Remote problem. I have a top of the line Sony UR that doesn't work with my PS3. And the 360 having options is good. For the first two, anyway. But I don't really like the third, "Grease You Up and Aim For Penetration" model. They're shafting both their fans and newcomers with their Elite model, IMHO.
Also, you do know that the XBOX 360 has 512mb UMA ram right? It's shared between the CPU and GPU. So it's equal to the PS3.
The 360 has three units clocking in at 3.2GHz. The PS3 has one main core and seven synergistic units running parallel and helping out. It clocks in at 3.2GHz. But as anyone knows, the clock speed doesn't matter anymore. Nowadays, you have to drop performance numbers in the form of flops. And with that, the PS3 drops ~ 2.18 tfps vs. the 360's approximate 1 tfps.
With programming, it's like the last generation. The architecture might have been difficult to program for from the start, but the games didn't suck in the end. Also, this time around, Sony's in-house studios are helping the third party developers out with newer devkits and techniques.
It's a given fact the the PS3 is more powerful. But right now it doesn't matter because the games suck. That's the point that you should have made.
I also don't need to use a WHOLE computer to browse the web on my TV because I can already do that with my PS3. And you know what, I can run Linux on my PS3 right out of the box, so I guess I DO have a WHOLE computer on the big screen.
Ok I also have a W810i and an LG Shine but what does it matter WHICH Sony phone I have as the point was that I actually HAVE a Sony phone.
So care to explain how mentioning that I have Sony products in my house is "droppin' names" ?
I have an Xbox 360. Am I allowed to say that or is that dropping names as well? Oh I also have a Samsung TV but I better not mention that as it will make me a name dropper.
Oh wait I suggest you actually go look up the term 'name dropper' first then maybe you will use it in the correct context next time.
"Name dropping is the practice of casually inserting the names of important people or institutions into a conversation in order to seem more important to the listener." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name-dropping
Name dropping occurs when you want to seem more important/less hostile to the listener. Literal definitions don't always apply in the real world. Arguing semantics for something that wasn't even coined until recently is a bit childish, no?
You name dropping SE allows you to seem unbiased, and therefore more credible to the listener.
I own a SE K800i, SE W950i, and a SE W880i.
See what I did there? A) I confessed to not hating SE products, so that I'll seem less hostile to you, by being in the same, unbiased boat. B)I actually do own those phones, so I'm ridiculing you for having a lower end phone. The only reason that I'm doing that is because you deem it important to state the specific model like flossin' that phone means anything. You could have just said, "I own a Sony Ericsson phone." That would've made you seen less of a name droppin' jerk. You're right, it doesn't matter which Sony phone you have as long as you have a Sony phone. Why didn't you just keep it that simple in the first place?
And in case you need to, here's the link to the definition of flossin'.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flossin
I mentioned the model to add credence to my point. If I was going to be "droppin' names" I would of come up with something better than the K550. I would of come up with some hogwash about owning a VAIO and not a mid entry Cybershot phone.
Personally I wouldn't of said the W950 was better as it's a different type of phone altogether so can't really be compared. Specially since it has no camera (which is damn weird from Sony). Same with the W880 as it is a 3G Walkman phone (with camera) where as the K550i is a 2G Cybershot phone.
Anyway I think I managed to prove my point which was that BloodFalcon was a fanboy and like most fanboys he goes through life with blinkers on and feels the need to put down the competition to try an make him feel better about his choices.
"these were/are supported on the HDMI spec from day dot (1.0), its just that HDMI 1.3 adds support for the next gen audio formats."
The main thing is NOT that HDMI is not 1.3, the main things is it can only output PCM in 2.0. If it could outpute 5.1 PCM, then the 360 could decode the audio onboard and send it out as 5.1 pcm. As it is, it cant, unfortunately.
"360 could decode the audio onboard and send it out as 5.1 pcm. As it is, it cant, unfortunately"
Sorry, I meant Dolby true hd could be decoded onboard and sent out as 5.1.
I won't be buying it if it is not HDMI 1.2. Like others have mentioned, it is about the increased color depth, not the audio. If a PS3 can support HDMI 1.3, there is NO REASON on earth the XBOX Elite should not support it. Also, you CANNOT upgrade from 1.2 to 1.3, so I would expect yet another XBOX in the next 6 months-year. I would bet when they go to 65nm chips, they will also upgrade to HDMI 1.3.
For now, no Elite for me.
Yes, but there currently are not any "true color" content out there-and few if any TV's support it. Even the PS3's games do not (currently) have true color.
Jeez, this area turned into warzone. I just read through a few posts and so much bashing going around. I don't think anyone should get worked up about these things at all. I'm guessing the reason why people do this is because they want thier "investment" to be the best.
I have all systems since Super Famicon came out, except for Neo-Geo, couldn't afford that one. And the only thing I cared about was the games. Super Nintendo I got because of Street Fighter, Mega Drive I got because of Streets of Rage, PS2 - Final Fantasy VII, Xbox - Ninja Gaiden, N64 - Legend of Zelda, Game Cube - Resident Evil, Game Boy - Tetris (no comment - I like to play it on the subway), DS Lite - Mario Cart DS, PSP - Super Ghosts and Goblins, Wii - Zelda, Xbox360 - Oblivion & Halo 3, PS3 - Metal Gear Solid 4 & Final Fantasy XIII.
Those games I listed beside the consoles are the only reasons I got them. I love games period. To me it doesn't matter who makes the game, whose console it is on, as long as they come out with great games that are fun. It's a shame there isn't only one console in this world, that would solve everyone's problem and no one would be bashing the other. But that's not the case.
But everyone should only care about what's important to them. Since the Super Famicon days to the PS3, the times have changed a lot. Gaming systems are no longer called gaming systems, but now Entertainment Systems. They do so much more than they did back then when all you could do is stick in a cartridge or CD and start playing. And I think that is great because it's evolving, gaming is evolving.
To me, there is room for all 3 consoles to survive. Whichever one does better will obviously be the one that pleases the general public greater. We'll just have to wait and see the outcome.
But getting back to the original article of this topic is HDMI. Personally, I'm shocked that MS didn't throw in 1.3 to make everyone happy. Because they made it 1.2, look at how people have reacted. I really don't see why they didn't add 1.3. Whether or not you think it is needed or not, it doesn't matter. The standard of HDMI has reached 1.3. I can only guess that it was cheaper to go with 1.2, that's why they did it or that 1.3 would be useless on their system in terms of the HD-DVD drive not being able to fully utilize it. I don't know, I hope they give a clear statement as to why.
My view on the Xbox360 Elite, if you got an 360, you don't need it. If you don't got one, I'd still wait a bit before jumping into it. See if there are any issues with this new 360 like the previous ones. Biggest one being that heat problem.
My view on PS3, best system on paper, and slowly improving it's operations. Rumble is back, online service getting better, addition of Home... As long as it's improving that's important. Please just release MGS4 and FFXIII soon, I wantz to play that shit really bad!
No matter what 360 fans think, Sony will be here to stay. And vice-versa. Both have already planted their seeds pretty deep. Same with Nintendo, they got the eyes of the general public more than any other console. I just hope they do things right from here on so that it doesn't become just a fad. More Zelda, yes please!
Peace.
This is dumb Microsoft - 1.2!!!. I too will be buying the PS3 as it has version 1.3 and it's all about the future. There are more and more TV's coming around the corner (even in the U.K!) which WILL support 1.3 as well as AV receivers. The colour palette on 1.3 is huge compared to 1.0 - 1.2 so visually, PS3 games will just look better and better and then off course the benefits of TRUE DD / DTS.
Over the next 6 months, the proliferation of 1.3 supported hardware will catch up with the PS3 and all that know the benefits will consider this as a positive over the XBOX360. Sorry Microsoft but you've lost me as a potential customer now.
this is the dumbsauce. microsoft is treating the xbox hardware like a version of windows throwing out the equivalent of service pack updates to counter their competitors console.
by the end of the summer i expect to see ms release the 'xbox leet-leet' with motion sensitive controls and a touchpad screen built onto one half of the nunchuck for $579 and maybe (crosses fingers) HDMI 1.3 support.
Oops. I'm sorry guys for double post. :S I clicked on the wrong link to activate the message. :( Apologies.
Ok, I don't get why people are so bent out of shape about the 360 not including HDMI @ the 1.3 spec. You think because a handfull of people on a message board have components that support it or want it, you think you guys are the norm. No, that is not the case. There is no such thing as "future proofing". If that was the case, our consoles with still be aiming to produce game in 640x480 at 60fps.
And everyones complaining about not being able to get lossless audio. Come on, I may want it, and so may a handful of people who have the equipment to support it, but how many other do? And to be honest, how many people have the audio knowledge to be able to hear a discernable difference. You guys argue about things that are not even standards.
Wi-Fi. This is an everchanging technology. There was A, then A+B, then AB+G, now N, soon to be who knows. So why implement it if it continues to change. I'm in IT and I don't even need it implemented. Because I know if they implement it today, something new will be announced tomorrow. Plus, the G standard only give your a base throughput of 54mbps (if you have the right signal strength). I'll stick to my ethernet connection thank you.
HD-DVD. This is the only thing that I think Microsoft messed up on. I think if they really wanted to classify this as an elite system, then they should have threw in all the bells an whistles (HDMI, HD-DVD, Wi-Fi, bigger HDD - elite components always come with at least one thing a person doesn't care for), and then once they created that sku, then lower the price of the core and premium systems.
And for you information John, HDMI 1.3 is not a standard yet. The PS3 is the first consumer device to implement it.
For 90 bucks you get 120gb notebook sized HD, HD size IS important regarding price, and an HDMI connection
i dont see nothing wrong.
both sides can b*tch and moan about both systems all they want people generally could care less. I was just waiting for this to happen...just watch ..ps3 is going to do the exact same thing in like a year ...bet you 1million dollars they will, just like they did with the ps2, ps. They always look to improve the product if even such an inch.
sony fanboys stfu
xbox fanboys stfu
seriously you guys b*tch too much ...dont like the product, dont buy it. plain and simple, or better yet, build YOUR OWN!!!! and leave the rest of sony and xbox buyers alone
IS it worth upgrading the HDMI cable for the Elite? ie. to Monster HDMI?
Some say it's just zeros and ones and cable quality doesn't matter...
Since I sell the stuff, I tried both, hell, I tried about five or six. Monster does make a difference. 600 Series from Monster is better than any of the competition that Best Buy and Circuit City carry. If you're just starting out with A/V stuff then stick to 600. If you're a videophile, then get 1000 Series. It allows you to crank the sharpness to full and still get zero artifacting. And that's even on my new 1080p TV.