The new Zune: better than before, but not quite good enough

We all cheered Microsoft on when learning that the same firmware powering its freshly announced second-generation hardware would also be made available as a free update to all first-gen Zune users. Not that we really need to explain this to Engadget readers, but early adopters are far from accustomed to the kindly occurrence of getting software and feature parity for free and without having to buy later hardware.

Well, we've been playing with the new Zune hardware (as well as the software update to our first gen device), and there's no mistake about it: Microsoft's really put their nose to the grindstone, prettying it up and filling out essential features that should have been there on day one, like podcasting support and wireless syncing. But we also think Microsoft's invested so much time mastering the basics that technologically it's fallen even further behind the pack than before. Will this new hardware cure what ails the Zune? Read on for the full review.

New Zune review

Let's knock out the upgrades first, because Microsoft's made some real improvements to Zune device line, and deserve credit where it's due. Besides the most obvious addition of flash-based Zunes in 8 and 4GB sizes and the general thinning and lightening of the flagship player, now all three devices (Zune 30 -- the new name for the first gen player -- Zune 80, and Zune 8 and 4) feature the same unified core of features, such as:

• QVGA display
• WiFi (now with wireless sync)
• WMV, H.264, and MPEG-4 video support
• MP3 and WMA audio
• Track sharing (up to three plays and now with the ability to pass along shared songs)

The supporting software and services doesn't hurt either, like the dramatically redesigned and stylish new desktop software, the Zune Marketplace's addition of a million DRM free tracks for download, syncing with Media Center, and Zune Social.

While we can't give solid word on Zune 80 hardware (which we've yet to play with), the Zune 8's first-gen nano look and feel takes us back to a more innocent time when the 100-song capped Moto ROKR might have stood a chance (yeah right), and a Microsoft media player was but a glint in J Allard's eye. (Oh, and that pukey green takes us back to the bad-60s, but hey, matters of taste... For the record, we still love the brown Zune, so there you go.) No doubt we prefer the new touch-sensitive squircle to the iPod's tired, thumb-joint-popping scrollwheel, but we did find ourselves clicking around on the direction buttons more often than sweeping across the pad -- in which case it's really no different to us than the original Zune's four way d-pad hardware.

So while it's safe to say that many of last year's kinks have been worked through, there's still no dearth of stuff to find fault in with this year's product. Let's start with the essentials that weren't added (and that we're sorely missing), like a video download store and games (hey, contacts and simple apps would be nice too). And then there's the fact that Mac users are still left out of the party; sorry Microsoft, we're not fielding further excuses here, it's time to get your head in the game and hit Apple where it hurts. If they can develop iTunes for Windows then the largest software company in the world can develop Zune for OS X. The assumption that Mac users represent a mere fraction of consumer electronics buyers is plain wrongheaded, and ignoring the halo effect, which is drawing increasing numbers of users to the Mac platform, is actually costing Microsoft business in desktops. The fact is that these days you can't take a gadget -- even a Microsoft gadget -- very seriously unless it takes platforms other than Windows seriously. (We know the Windows fanboys in the house just winced, but deep down they probably know we're right.) And the painful part is sometimes all it means to take users seriously on other platforms is making the device mass-storage compliant.

There's also the fact that all our Zunes are virginal to this day because of the lack of other devices -- and incentive -- to share share tracks on the go. The Zune Social online network is supposed to give a boost to song sharing among Zune users, giving users the means to send along tracks on the web. But we think someone forgot to pass Microsoft the memo that millions of people have been sharing music -- DRM free music! -- for nearly a decade. In fact, it's that very online music sharing that gave the portable media market a purpose and its first dose of content, and no one's ever needed a hand from Redmond to do so. And then there are those overhyped interface tweaks, which really just amount to some eye candy, vaguely rearranged and tweaked menus, and massive home screen fonts we're sure our cataracts-ridden great aunt Gertie will have zero problem reading. We'll take 'em, but it's hardly a whole new Zune experience, if you ask us.

We'd also be remiss if we didn't point out the fact that while the new Zune lineup is priced competitively with the iPods classic and nano, technologically we still feel cheated. What's the point of a huge screen and WiFi if you can't do anything interesting with it? WiFi sharing is still a joke, there's no over the air podcast downloads, and while wireless sync is nice, but definitely not the killer app that will set the Zune apart. We're sure the eight Engadget readers that formed the Schenectady Zune Users' Group are totally stoked to be able to share and re-share tracks that can each only be played three times, but the rest of us have moved on to the concept that a WiFi-equipped portable should do start doing useful things like download new content while we're out, or at very least have a lightweight browser -- like the Archos 605 WiFi and iPod touch, to name a couple. And for our money, the new Sansa View is still the flash portable to beat for the Zunes 8 and 4; for what you're paying to get an 8GB Zune you could be getting 16GB of capacity from SanDisk -- and with a far larger screen to boot.

The first time around, we were disappointed less by the Zune's many shortcomings than by the fact that instead of creating something new, Microsoft essentially released a shoddy, hacked-together collection of white-label Microsoft products: Portable Media Center as the Zune UI; Toshiba's GigaBeat S as the Zune hardware; Windows Media Player as Zune desktop software; Urge as Zune Marketplace. Well, good on Microsoft for spending the last year rebuilding the Zune foundation and making sure to dot and cross more of the Is and Ts this time. But there's still a fundamental disconnect; Microsoft is spending all its time trying convince people to share music with Zune when the Zune team could be whipping up devices that current iPod users will actually sit up and take notice of.

Mastery of the basics is what won the day in portable media devices over the years. It's what's sold the most units to the most people, and tens of millions of iPod users the world over have proven as much by buying into the simplicity-is-key device philosophy. Rapidly accelerating iPod sales only seem to indicate happy, product-recommending customers for Cupertino, but what Microsoft still doesn't get is that the more products Apple sells, the greater the number of its customers that will churn or graduate to alternative devices that do things better, cheaper, or differently. Microsoft's role to play in this game is to chip away from the iPod's share or pick up the scraps; the position for expanding the customer base of portable media device buyers has long been filled.

For the second year running the Zune and its anti-Apple pedigree squanders its unique position to chase after the iPod-disenfranchised; it offers nothing special to ex-iPod owners, nor anything innovative to the proto-geeks looking to buy just about anything but an Apple product. It doesn't do much anything better, cheaper, or all that differently from its primary competition, and it's further behind today's leading edge devices, like the 605 WiFi and the touch, than the original Zune line was last year. When we really look at the product, perhaps FM radio aside, we can't think of a single compelling reason to recommend it to an iPod user that's ready to upgrade or switch -- and we don't even have any particular affinity for iPods.

So Zune, same place, same time in late 2008? Bring your A-game, do something new. We'll be ready.

Zune 2.0 update, comparison

Zune 2.0 update, software install

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 2:51PM]

Where was the review? What I read was a long rant. Hopefully Engadget can come out with a review for the new Zune soon.

[McKeegan Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:14PM]

I agree. Is it worth mentioning that, conversely to the MS stuff, nearly all the Apple products (iPhone, iPods, Leopard, new iMac, etc) have had glowing reviews here?

[ryan Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:14PM]

What is a review but a person or publication's opinion about something? What, exactly, was lacking? We covered the changes, improvements, shortcomings, and comparisons of the new hardware and Zune 2.0 software to other devices in the market.

[ryan Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:16PM]

Mike, you're wrong -- I reviewed the iPod touch and I doubt anyone thinks that was a "glowing" review. Try paying closer attention, we're very critical of Apple, just as we are of everything consumer tech related.

[zeroprime Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:50PM]

Perhaps they come off a little harsh on the new Zune not because they dislike the idea of a competing product to the iPod, but because they had such high hopes for it that just weren't met. It seems the complaining isn't that it's not as good as an iPod, but that it isn't better. Why settle for average?

[McKeegan Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:29PM]

I did not mention the iPod Touch. Nor did I say, "All Apple products." I don't want to get into a semantical war with you, or anyone, Ryan. I am an avid Engadget reader; have been for a long time. I only wanted to voice my opinion that Engadget appears to be rather harsh with MS-related news.

I'd love to be a Mac-fanboy as much as I am an MS and Linux fanboy (it's true, I thoroughly enjoy both), but I cannot afford to buy an iMac "just to play around with."

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:45PM]

Man, when did the PC/Windows/Zune mafia get so angry and venomous? I mean really, rating down the comments of the author of the blog you're reading? That's cold.

Ryan, don't listen to these guys, we still like you.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:45PM]

"Try paying closer attention, we're very critical of Apple, just as we are of everything consumer tech related."

I just can't believe Ryan said that. Deep down somewhere the truth lies.

And it's just like Gizzmodo'z rating of 6/10 despite a good review. I thought Engadget would do a little better than that.

I applaud for the excellent coverage though (good going).

[ins0mn1ac Posted Nov 13th 2007 4:05PM]

Ryan,
I agree that a review is someone's opinion of something. A gadget review is, however, usually a review of the device and not necessarily a commentary on the industry with a few comparisons of other devices thrown in.

I clicked through the link because I wanted to know how the device worked, not because I wondered how it compared to an ipod. I know how ipods work.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 21st 2007 7:30PM]

I have to say this article was accurately earlier described as being more of 'rant' than a 'review'! I honestly think you guys should do a part two to somewhat 'redeem' yourselves. Intentions aside, the article reeks of 'fanboy-ism'.

In other news, I used to really like iTunes on the PC, but recently I have started looking up alternatives because iTunes 7.5 SUCKS ON VISTA! I am not alone in this opinion (Check out the comments and ranking on the Betanews.com page for iTunes). It's gotten very slow and unresponsive over time. I really like Apple, but when they are on top in a market they act just like M$. The sit on their asses and start cranking out crappy products (PowerPC anyone? Dark days I tell you).

The Zune software (which you can get here - http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/zunesoftware/download.htm) is actually a great iTunes alternative!
It's fast a slick! The BEST feature for me has to do with PODCASTING, which was hardly covered in this review! Zune put podcasting at the forefront and makes it easy to find new podcasts and subscribe to them. It even automatically discovers the podcasts that you subscribed to with iTunes - Charming!

Pluses for Zune (Software only):
- Slick and stable
- Faster than iTunes on Vista
- Imports unprotected music and podcast from iTunes
- Easy to navigate
- You can play photo slideshows and music together
- Better than iTunes for getting at podcasts (I nearly chocked my HD because I went crazy downloading!!!)
- Did I mention fabulous for podcasting yet??? :)
- It will download podcasts from your PC, but not from the internet (plus and a minus, but mostly a plus if your PC is up to date)


Minuses for Zune (Software only):
- Large format may turn off Winamp users
- Cannot play protected music purchased in iTunes
- PC only
- I did not get CD text titles when I burnt an Audio CD :(


All in all my experience with the Zune software was very positive. In case you’re wondering, I don't have a Zune player yet, but the software is 'worth' covering on its own - it's a real gem. I’ll sure be looking at getting the 80GB model this Christmas!

[dizilbdog Posted Nov 13th 2007 2:51PM]

You know I might think of buying one, but it doesn't supporting hooking up to a Mac. The iPod will always hook up to a P.C have to go both ways I think for the Zune, and maybe they might sell some of those

[Jared Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:00PM]

Rarely would I hear a mac person actually confess to wanting a Zune, its not worth M$'s money to invest in the mac fanbase.

[jivetrky Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:11PM]

I really bet that is the case. How many MAC users would actually do more than "test" a friends Zune or something. I don't mean any kind of flames or anything like that, but people that are usually Mac users are going to go with an iPod over the Zune. Probably even if the Zune was a better product. I think MS thought this as well and decided it wasn't worth their time or money to try to get into a market that doesn't want them.
It would be like marketing a Toyota to my Redneck uncle, it just isn't worth the time.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:23PM]

The iPod will hook up to a PC because it has to. If they didn't, there's no way it would have the market share it enjoys now.

[FrankTheCrank Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:32PM]

iPhone, FTW!!!

[digitizedsociety Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:48PM]

As a Mac user and Windows user i would look at a Zune if was Mac compatible, but its not..

The Zune UI is much more slick than the UI of the iPod nano and Classic. Offering the artist engravings all the time would be cool. And now that they changed to the squircle from the D-Pad that i absolutely hated.

[wronski Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:57PM]

I've always been a Mac user and would thoroughly consider getting a Zune if it had OS X support. Mind you, we don't all have some life-time commitment to all and any Apple products.

[joe23521 Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:58PM]

Perhaps what's missing from this review are more detailed descriptions of the features, functionalities and user experience of this new product. Someone who has never used a Zune before wouldn't benefit much from reading this. Too much comparison with other products while not enough info on the one being reviewed. A thorough video on the new interface might not have been a bad idea either.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 2:51PM]

Wow what a review. When pictures and information started coming in about the Zune 2 it seemed like Engadget had finally got rid of their anti-Microsoft, anti-Zune sentiment but once again here we go: "Its better than the iPod but still not good enough". When will it ever be enough Engadget?

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:30PM]

I don't think they said that it's better than the iPod.

Pretty much they say that it sucks... lots of Hype, but it doesn't offer up anything unique, just one big runner-up... Buy the 80gig for $80 next year (I just bought a Zune1 for $80 on woot.com), and it'll be a good deal.

[blackflag Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:34PM]

they said it was better than the last zune, not the ipod. Zune better than iPod? ha

[Balatro Posted Nov 13th 2007 2:54PM]

@dizilbdog: Don't forget that the media library is terribly portable with iTunes as well. Drag over your folder to the Mac, remove the .itl extension from the one file and viola it pulls in your library, all your ratings, etc. It's terribly simple to move between Mac and PC with iTunes. If I put everything into my Zune I'd have to rebuild my library and playlists if I wanted to go back again.

That being said the new firmware and client is realllyyy slick. I upgraded my Black 30 this morning.

PS: Where the heck is the ID3 tag editor!? Am I just blind?

[SophieMango Posted Nov 13th 2007 2:54PM]

"and we don't even have any particular affinity for iPods."


LMAO!

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:03PM]

Yeah, I spit out my lunch when I read that. Who are they trying to convince, us or themselves?

[ryan Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:19PM]

I think you'll be hard pressed to actually demonstrate some finite examples of us having said something unfairly positive about an Apple product -- especially iPods -- and unfairly negative about Microsoft products. It's not some secret that we're not firm iPod believers.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:53PM]

I'll have to give Engadget (and Giz, for that matter) some credit. They're Zune coverage has been much more even-handed ever since the announcement of the v2 (and the firmware update for v1). They've actually had some positive things to say about the Zune.
Of course, that still doesn't change the fact that on lanch-day for the iProne- I mean, iPhone there was approximately three thousand different posts about it, each one more masturbatory than the last.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:55PM]

and by "they're coverage" of course I mean "their coverage".


I hate when other people do that, but I hate it even more when I do it.

[MeanSpyvie Posted Nov 13th 2007 2:55PM]

Should the Zune support OSX?

I don't think it's about Microsoft ignoring the Mac user base... it's more like realistically, how many Mac users would adopt the MS product?

With all the competition and animosity between the two camps what would be the point? Perhaps the omission of an OSX could be viewed as a professional courtesy.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:04PM]

When I think of Microsoft, "professional courtesy" isn't at the top of the list.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:05PM]

I am a mac user and would consider this device! In fact, when I saw the cheap refurb units I even seriously considered it until my research showed that there is nothing that makes the Zune work on a Mac.

Therefore my short-list of media players is: an Archos 605 (for functionality) or iPod Touch (for engineering/design).

[Solipsism Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:05PM]

Agreed. This "review" was written by a Mac user, and if Mr. Block is a representative of the "Mac community", then it would appear that Mac support would be a complete waste.

[ryan Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:22PM]

John, I'm a long time PC user; on my desk I have a Vista machine sitting right next to the Mac on my desk. In a former career I worked for years running IT in Windows-only companies. Try not to make uninformed assumptions.

[fasterthantheworld Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:49PM]

but wait.. aren't Macs incredible wonder machines because they can run OSX *and* Windows? so what's the problem? Mac users can simply use their Zunes on their Windows partitions..

[martymankins Posted Nov 13th 2007 5:15PM]

Spyvie makes a good point about how many Mac users would use the Zune, but at the same time, I do see Ryan's point to MS and if they are really having the Zune be at least somewhat of an iPod competitor, they need to make their product work on the Mac. As with Ryan, I'm a Windows IT guy, but use a Mac for my personal computer and as much as I like the iPod, I can see a point in having another choice for a DAP player.

Regardless of all that, I think the Zune is missing one key piece in competing with the iPod: suport for AAC. Obviously iTunes Store purchases with DRM would not work, but think about a lot of people that use iTunes to rip their CDs. By default, it rips songs into the 128k AAC (unless you change it under Preferences).

Given a huge library of songs, it would be nice to have Zune find those songs and not convert them, but attach them to it's library, very much how iTunes can find songs.

If Zune already does this, it wasn't mentioned above. But given the listed formats that Ryan puts in his first look review, I'm assuming AAC is not supported.

[TwhiT Posted Nov 13th 2007 2:58PM]

OMFFFFG!! F'n software comPLETELY F'd up all of my album art and ID tags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 2:59PM]

...and most importantly, it doesns't play FLAC and Ogg Vorbis.
http://flac.sourceforge.net
http://www.vorbis.com

[IanKen Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:58PM]

Ogg. FLAC.

LOL. Seriously. Other than being open source fap material for uber nerd geek fanboys, nobody cares about ogg or flac.

[sgteaston Posted Nov 21st 2007 10:21AM]

FLAC and Ogg Vorbis...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

You actually listen to audio into those two formats? Oh man.

Wait, maybe you're being sarcastic?

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:00PM]

Could you guys be any more Apple-Centric? There is a ton of buzz over this product and I for one am thrilled that MS just gave me a 'new' device by upgrading the firmware. I'm glad I was an early adopter. Try a little objectivity and get off the bandwagon!

[doubledeej Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:00PM]

Wow... that had a decidedly negative tone to it. Maybe the Zune isn't the perfect solution for everyone, but it really seems like it is a good product. For those of us that aren't able to use an iPod, or just plain don't like them (for whatever reasons), the Zune seems to be a great alternative. I'll be picking one up this afternoon if I can find one to find out for myself how good they are.

I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the increasingly pro-Apple agenda here at engadget. As time goes by it seems like unbiased product information is becoming harder and harder to find.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 21st 2007 9:06PM]

just out of curiosity, what would prevent a person from being able to use an iPod? I am pretty sure they can be used with PCs, Macs, and Linux.

For the record, I highly dislike Apple, so don't think I am some Mac fanboy, I am just curious as to why a person wouldn't be able to use an iPod.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:23PM]

out of honest curiosity, why would you not be able to use an iPod? (but *could* use a Zune?)

[kisai Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:51PM]

Except that it looks like mickey mouse!

[doubledeej Posted Nov 14th 2007 3:53AM]

I have 1100 CDs and about 950 of them are ripped using WMA. I ripped them before the iPod became popular, and it took nearly 4 months to finish them all. (MP3 sound quality isn't acceptable, so WMA was my only option at the time.)

Since Apple chose to remove (not omit) WMA support from the iPod, I can't play my files, and I'm not going to go through the CD ripping process again. Plus, the audio artifacts from converting WMA->AAC are too audible for me to ignore, so conversion is absolutely out of the question. Therefore, an iPod is not an option for me.

Plus I find the whole Apple system way too closed for my taste. Granted the Zune is just about as closed a system, but at least I can play my files in just about every piece of software on Windows. You certainly can't say that about AAC.

[SSteven Posted Nov 16th 2007 12:41PM]

I bet you're kicking yourself now for converting that entire collection to an extremely closed format like WMV (or AAC). Yikes. Everyone else reading this should learn the lesson his story teaches before falling into this trap yourself.

[doubledeej Posted Nov 16th 2007 12:47PM]

Actually I'm very glad I went with WMA instead of AAC. Very few of the pieces of software I use on a regular basis support AAC. WMA is much more widely supported.

[(Unverified) Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:01PM]

I bought a zune30 because woot gave them away.

I am a "hater" of all things Ipod (well, the iphone is kinda cool so is the touch).

I really hate itunes.

With the zune, I feel like microsoft has taken all the bad things about the Ipod (proprietary software, limited format compatibility, etc) and released them about a year after the apple has. Oh, and they are a bit uglier too.

I was really hoping the new firmware would somehow make a revolutionary jump forward. Maybe jump up and challenge a real media library like media monkey.

Nope. Zune still sucks. I agree with engadgets statements:

we don't even have any particular affinity for iPods.
So Zune, same place, same time in late 2008?
Bring your A-game, do something new. We'll be ready.

-AD

[invinciblon Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:00PM]

"squircle" is the best word ever.

[charlie x Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:02PM]

For me, the FM radio is enough of a difference, and I don't care for iTunes. I'd be interested to know what you base your comments about the number of Mac owners to suggest Microsoft need to support OSX, is it more than the usual 70/30 rule (Which if I remember correctly, Apple follow too) ?

Are most iPodians Mac owners, or are they using it on Windows, My guess is that the iPod was helped considerably more by bringing it to Windows, than it'd help the Zune going to OSX.

[F orrest Posted Nov 13th 2007 3:03PM]

Is there some way to filter out Ryan's entries? I think I've finally had enough.

You might at least change the 'Review' in the headline to 'Editorial'. What I continue to read on this site is not how the device meets its stated goals, but how it fails to live up to the random expectations of the contributing author.

WE DON'T CARE what you want the device to do. Does it do what it is SUPPOSED to do? Sheesh.