Home thermostats: Big Brother's next target?

It's not like we haven't heard of a higher power invading one's home before, but apparently, a proposal set to be considered at month's end could allow the state of California to "require that residents install remotely monitored temperature controls in their homes next year." The Programmable Communication Thermostat (PCT) would feature a "non-removable" FM receiver which could be controlled by Big Brother in "times of emergency" to drop load in order for "utilities to meet their supplies [when] the integrity of the grid is being jeopardized." Of course, we are hearing that adjustments would only be made ±4 degrees, but we aren't so keen on one thing leading to another, if you catch our drift.

[Via Digg, image courtesy of Drexel, thanks yoshi]

[ryan @ Jan 13th 2008 11:58AM]

Sounds like nuclear power would be a much better solution.

[Flashpoint @ Jan 13th 2008 12:28PM]

FUSION Power would be the best NUCLEAR Power Solution but, because of big oil, nuclear power has gotten a BAD name. They really have people believing (through Hollywood) that our technology isn't good enough to prevent another Chernobyl - or, that all nuclear power plants explode like in "ALIENS".

As for this thermostat - you've gotta love the way the government can pass laws to require new technology that they can use to monitor everyone digitaly - and then pass a law that makes the requirement a "must", punishable by fine/imprisonment.


The National ID card is comin whether we like it or not, and pretty soon all our info is going to be completely digital.

[Ellianth @ Jan 13th 2008 12:52PM]

Stop putting these people in positions of power?

[BigD145 @ Jan 13th 2008 1:03PM]

The problem with nuclear is the billion of so half life of some isotopes you get from the castoff rods. At a bare minimum, you must store your spent fuel above ground for about 14 years before you can even think about doing ANYTHING else with it. The shortest half life of the most common isotopes is 10K+ years. F* U nuclear.

[jaba @ Jan 13th 2008 1:07PM]

are you nuts??? there is no way that there is going to be a FUSION reactor built on this earth before the end of our lifetimes.

"you dont have the technology or resources to pull off a stunt like that so HAH."
"Then i'll fucking kill you..."

[um @ Jan 14th 2008 3:25AM]

depends how old you are, i suppose:
http://www.iter.org/

[Wwhat @ Jan 13th 2008 2:10PM]

I don't want to quibble but the chernobyl reactor exploded also, and although the explosion isn't a nuclear one it's certainly a bang that takes off the roof once enough heat and steam builds up, and then you get a pleasantly glowing cloud cheering up the neighbourhood - nay continent.

[thethirdmoose @ Jan 13th 2008 3:22PM]

BigD is right - you have to make sure you can store the spent fuel somewhere safe before you even think about using nuclear power.

[Anthony @ Jan 13th 2008 5:30PM]

@Wwhat

The Chernobyl reactor was nothing like any of the other reactors out there. Plus as with TMI it was gross operator neglegance that caused those disasters. New reactors that would be built would be based on designs that include passive fail safes that make those situations impossible. In the event of a critical failure it would still be contained to the containment building which is the point.

I'm all for clean power sources but they aren't feasible yet. Those plants should not have been shut down like they were as there was no infrastructure set to take the load.

Nuclear is the currently the cleanest, safest, and most feasible power solution for the United States.

[Robotochan @ Jan 13th 2008 6:31PM]

A pre-commercial prototype Fusion Power Plant is currently being built in France with the estimated finish time for 2013. There is also another one being built in Japan I believe. I can see them being built in my lifetime...

[Abuzar @ Jan 13th 2008 9:50PM]

80 percent of Pakistan's power comes from Hydroelectric sources. Something to be learned there.

[ryan @ Jan 13th 2008 10:21PM]

Hmmm... 80% of Pakistan's power would probably be about the same as 5% of the U.S.'s power. The per capita power usage is much, much higher. Too high to be able to power 80% of the U.S. on hydroelectricity, I'd wager.

[Speddy @ Jan 14th 2008 12:11AM]

The issue isn't so much HOW the reactor is built and managed; the issue is the long term disposal of the rods, where they are stored, and how they will be "secured".

Until there is a way to either recycle the rods (doubtful), speed up the half-life or send the rods into the sun (highly doubtful), we just stay at war and use the depleted uranium as shells! (/sarcasm)

[jamma @ Jan 13th 2008 12:01PM]

This is more proof that Arnold Schwarzenegger was "elected to lead, not to read!"

[Garst @ Jan 13th 2008 5:08PM]

-So here is our chance to kick some ass for mother Earth.

-I'm listening.

-Well, I've narrowed your choices down to five unthinkable options. Each will cause untold misery...

-I pick number three.

-You don't even want to read them first?

-I was elected to lead, not to read. Number 3!

---

-Don't worry, I have a solution for you, sir. In fact, I have five solutions. You don't even have to read them. You'll have deniability. I'll take care of everything. You know nothing.

-No. I need to know what I'm approving.

-Absolutely. But on the other hand, knowing things is overrated. Anyone can pick something when they know what it is. It takes real leadership to pick something you're clueless about.

-Okay, I pick three.

-Try again.

-One.

-Go Higher.

-Five?

-Too high.

-Three?

-You already said three.

-Six?

-There is no six.

-Two?

-Double it.

-Four!

-As you wish, sir.

(Option 4: Blow up Springfield)

[TURNERSVILLE @ Jan 13th 2008 12:03PM]

I guess we have to sacrafice to save the planet. But Al Gore can still have a $30k per month utility bill. Sounds fair to me.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659

[Stuart @ Jan 13th 2008 12:51PM]

Sorry to burst your little bubble, but Gore has actually taken the 80-year old home, which was terribly energy inefficient (what 80-year old home isn't?) and has renovated it so it is only one of 14 homes in the nation rated as a Gold level energy efficient home:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22248699/

I realize it's a lot easier to have conservative radio show hosts to do your thinking for you, but you'll be a lot better in the end if you think for yourself and do a little follow-up.

[snwbrdwndsrf @ Jan 13th 2008 1:40PM]

You mean per year, right?

[Chris @ Jan 13th 2008 3:15PM]

@Stuart...

So you want people to use the same thinking skills you used that bought into the myth of Global Warming...no thanks! Global Warming has been proven over and over to be a myth, it's not real, everythings on a cycle, including stupid people. They keeping coming back w/ a new scare tactic every decade or two. The Global Warming crazies are the same group of crazies that claimed we were entering a mini-ice age in the 70s, and the same crazies that shut down nuclear power development, and the same crazies that say we shouldn't drill a tiny hold in Anwar...they are and will always be 'the crazies'. What's sad, is that now people are starting to believe them rather than think for themselves and do a little research into their claims.

The day someone tries to control my thermostat (with or without a warrant) is the day they gun me down in my doorway.

[Chizzle @ Jan 13th 2008 4:13PM]

@ Stuart

Sorry I can't give Gore much kudos seeing how these renovations took place AFTER being critized for the expensive energy. Should I give him kudos for buying carbon credits to offset his private jet usage as well?

[Jon Doe @ Jan 13th 2008 4:18PM]

Chris...you are a moron. And your children, if you have any, will someday condemn you as such for your backasswards thinking that is already pretty much being proven moronicly wrong. I get the whole of the scientific community is just wrong, right? Its just the right wingnut scientists that shrub has under his thumb who are claiming that global warming isn't real. Do us all a favor and go up to the arctic sometime in Winter and tell us global warming isn't real. Moron.

[Stuart @ Jan 13th 2008 6:11PM]

It is really sad to see so many people getting their information from talking heads, while ignoring the preponderance - overwhelming preponderance - of evidence from the scientific community that humans are contributing to global climate change on a massive level. I simply don’t understand the logic behind it. But for argument's sake, let’s say it is cyclical, and the world’s scientists are wrong. What have we accomplished by curbing pollution and carbon dioxide? Cleaner air. But what if the scientists are right and we do nothing? It is too frightening to allow.

And Chizzle, yes I do give them credit because in the same article that Turnersville initially links to, a spokesperson for the Gores said they were in the process of updating the home (scroll down, it’s buried quite deeply). So no, they didn’t start just because of the criticism, but because it was the right thing to do.

[jessy @ Jan 14th 2008 2:23AM]

stuart, lets play a game of theory.


mass scientists come to the conclusion that global warming is real. like you said, if its not real, cleaner air. what if thats their thinking? what do they stand to collaborate al gores ideas of global warming? cleaner air, potentially reducing/stopping global warming, a nice big paycheck/grant



at the same time, a small but still in essence large(hundreds perhaps thousands?) disagree with the majority's opinion. why? perhaps if this scenario were to be true. those people would be taking the moral high ground, deciding and telling the truth that it is a farce.



like i said, i didnt say it was true. but think about it, what if it is true? now i do agree, cleaner air might not be a bad thing, and al gores witch hunt might be fine. but, lets take a local lake for example (and a canal in my home town)

lake(and canal) get heavily protested years ago to be cleaned, for boats of people who can afford a $50k boat to drive around say, lake michigan(same thing here except snow mobilers). they clean the lake, the lake being cleaned of seaweed, or just vegetation causes more sunlight to enter the water and deepr, causes more plant life to grow faster, larger, much better. causing a huge cycle of pointlessness. no big deal really? well its acceptable

now here in my town, and actually through out all of illinois the hennepin canal once was filled with downed trees, the pathways that run along it over grown and slightly wild like. these trees stopped snow mobilers from having fun on the canal, so them + EPA supporters said, lets clean it up. its been a while now... but its clean as hell most of the time. side effects like the seaweed? the fish population has decreased significantly, especially with combined factors of pollution and farm run off(same?) some species are nearly non existent in this canal now, when previously they were known to be some the most aggressive fresh water fish(we call them yellow belly/bullhead catfish im unsure its proper name). the fallen trees provided cover, safety nutrients(bugs&vegetation) for these fish and other animals


so now, thats one canal, on a relatively small scale(even though its like 100 miles long?) what if all this cleaner air stuff comes back to haunt us like the tree thing did? maybe it will be like the seaweed. it could be like a "perpetual cycle of maintenance" or it could be come a disaster. yes, i assume the pollution in the air/water all that stuff probably would cause more potential damage then then "disaster" scenario, but i think it should all be watched carefully.

[GAS @ Jan 13th 2008 12:03PM]

Such a beautiful state under the complete control of marxist control freaks. What a pity..

[JTM @ Jan 13th 2008 4:56PM]

I call it commiefornia

[Mr. Scott @ Jan 13th 2008 12:10PM]

I actually have a similar device already installed in my home.

It is hooked up to my electric hot water heater and allows Dominion (Virginia) Power to turn it off at peak times. The plus side is that I get a $4/MONTH CREDIT on my power bill for having it (pays for local taxes).

It has been installed for 20 years without a problem.

[Good_Bytes @ Jan 13th 2008 1:17PM]

Nice 4$ per month. Hey dude are you interested in getting the smart card. Th card will prevent you form buying stuff we don't want you to buy and we can all your life in our databases which he possibly sell for. But hey! you save 10% on everything you purchase.
part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRKYIwxbdQM
part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGRAVVR9aKQ&feature=related

I cannot believe you loose freedom for money.
Yea, you might say its just a thermostat... it always starts small.. then your garbage, electricity, and slowly increase until you have no more freedom.

[Jacob @ Jan 13th 2008 1:59PM]

wow Good_bytes, Mr. Scott here is saving energy, and you're lambasting him for it?
come on people, we're going to run out of energy soon enough, so what's wrong with turning your electricity down a bit?

[Jeff @ Jan 13th 2008 4:29PM]

Good_Bytes:

Where did you get this idea that electricity = freedom? I'm pretty sure there was no electricity when the founding fathers wrote the constitution and the bill of rights (or the declaration of independence, for that matter).

Electricity is a product, subject to the laws of supply and demand. Like anything else, when there's not enough demand and too much supply, you may not be able to buy it. I don't see how this is any different than going to a store at Christmas that's run out of Tickle Me Elmo dolls. Are you going to shoot up the store because they've taken away your "freedom" to buy that doll?

There's no "freedom" to buy *any* product. When it's available, you can buy it for the market price. If it's not available, you can't. End of story.

What this law would do would be restore that supply/demand balance. As it is right now, a few bad customers (those who set their thermostats to 60 degrees in summer) can ruin it for everybody else by individually using a little bit of a larger share of electricity than they need, which ends up taking away *all* electricity from *everybody* (including themselves) in the form of a blackout. This is much less fair, to all concerned (including the bad apples), than just upping thermostats remotely by a few degrees on emergency days. When there's a run on any other kind of product, it doesn't force the factories to shut down, but it does with electricity. This is just a way to keep the electricity "factories" (ie. power plants) running.

It's hilarious reading comments from people like yourself who somehow think the power to purchase products is a "right" inherent to our most basic ideals. If that's what you believe, then you've been seriously corrupted by right-wing propaganda. That is *not* the "freedom" this country was founded on. There's no guarantee anywhere in founding US law that says you have the right to purchase a product even when there is not enough supply of that product.

[Reader @ Jan 13th 2008 4:35PM]

Rephrase that please before I start ranting to no end about liberal propaganda. We may be running out of OIL, not energy. Even that is debatable seeing as there are many untapped reserves left and 3.3 trillion tons of oil shale if it became possible to efficiently refine it.

[jus10 @ Jan 14th 2008 2:23PM]

Hmm, I too live in VA and have one of those gizmos hooked up. Although I'm not sure I get a credit. Maybe the apt complex takes that buggers.

However, I'm a fan if it means less rolling brownouts in the summer when they can't keep the power running. My mini-ITX (15 watts!) server has a UPS just for them ...

[GAS @ Jan 13th 2008 12:10PM]

And what will be the punishment for people who tamper with these boxes? Fines? Imprisonment? Will their relatives be receiving a visit from a California SS officer bringing their ashes in a box?

[StreetStealth @ Jan 13th 2008 3:05PM]

Normally I hate Godwin... But I'm afraid that actually was a Godwin.

[Jon Doe @ Jan 13th 2008 4:19PM]

StreetStealth,

The law needs to be repealed since American is more and more closely emulating the practices of Nazi Germany. We just haven't reached the point where we start keeping track of the je....I mean the gays in this country via Real Id's all encompassing database. Give that a decade after its been established. Frogs in hot water, frogs in hot water....google it and learn why the people who are a paranoids in this country are the most likely to save it in the long run.

[Wonderkid @ Jan 13th 2008 12:17PM]

Why not allow public good will to assist in an emergency? Although I am writing this as a Brit, having lived in the US and monitored the news since, in time of difficulty, people will make sacrifices - such as various hurricanes, earthquakes and tornadoes. And likewise, here in the UK, we have a history of 'downsizing' in times of hardship.

A tragic reflection of where we are headed if human common sense and good will is to be replaced by the cold logic of technology and/or a remote entity distant from the citizen. How will they know who can survive with a lower temperature? I tell you, a database, so, people will defraud the system. A younger homeowner may fake their iD to pretend to be elderly. Etc.

I propose the following: In event of emergency, "Dear people of California, due to X event yesterday, I am asking that those of you able to please reduce your electricity consumption for the next X hours. Ideally, switch off all appliances and lights immediately after use. And why not do that all the time anyway to reduce your long term carbon footprint?" Etc.

[Al @ Jan 13th 2008 1:01PM]

I don't think trusting in the people to collectivly do the right thing would be as affective as one might think. I would expect an initial positive response but ultimatly I can see people getting desensitized to the situation and reverting back to normal usage paterns.

After Huricane Katrina hit there was some damage to an oil refinery which impacted the gasoline/petro production. The people's response was to purchase as much gasoline as possible until all the pumps were dry. This may or may not be applicable since you can't collect and carry electricity as well as fuel, but illustrates that ultimatly people are more concerned with themselves.

There are said to be problems with smog in the area where I live yet SUVs remain popular.

The main water resivior where I live has dropped by more than 17 feet in the last year due to draught conditions, but consumption of water did not reduce significantly until fines were imposed for using water out door.

So over all I don't think that trusting in "the good will of the people" is sufficient by itself.

[Dev @ Jan 13th 2008 12:18PM]

They're already doing this in Canada (Ontario, that is) but it's an optional program. I think it's a great way to bring down the load when some people crank the A/C, especially when there is no one home. At the same time it's not a program I would opt for only because I'd rather have my own control over my cooling.

[MEAT! @ Jan 13th 2008 12:18PM]

The radio in my garage--a technology that has had one hundred years to develop--turns to static if I walk in front of it...you really think the big 'ol government will be able to control a million thermostats within some time critical window dictated by changing power needs? Waste o' money.

On the other hand, maybe it'll be enough if even a small percentage of thermostats are responsive.

On the OTHER hand, hundreds of old people will die when a thirteen year old dismantles his thermostat and figures out how to spoof the signal.

[TrevynPaige @ Jan 13th 2008 12:40PM]

Good points...also...you have to wonder how much power the state/fed government will waste monitoring and controlling these thermostats. All of those computers and other machines (plus the fm broadcasters) will require a LOT of power to reach that large of an area so densely populated as Cali.

[MEAT! @ Jan 13th 2008 1:00PM]

I'm wondering if they can't use already existing FM transmitter towers. If you had to install a wireless control system in each home, this is not a bad way to do it... Radio transmitters already exist; say you just develop a thermostat that, when it receives a signal, boosts the temp by five degrees for thirty minutes, then resets it to normal. Then put a hardware key in the device and encrypt your signal on some unused FM frequency (between stations, for example, or even spanning multiple unused channels). Of course, none of that is hack-proof; it'd be fun to try and break.

[Grizz @ Jan 13th 2008 12:23PM]

Thermostat hacking, yum.

[Apreche @ Jan 13th 2008 12:25PM]

Bad idea. First of all, it will encourage people to use window air conditioners instead of central air, which is vastly more efficient. Secondly, it will encourage people to get fossil fuel heating instead of electric heating. Actually, fossil fuel heating, even now, is cheaper than electric heating on the individual level.

[dramamoose @ Jan 13th 2008 12:59PM]

Sorry. Just have to go on my normal rant here. Where do you think the electricity is coming from? If you live in the US, it's likely the power is coming from a fossil fuel plant. Most likely burning coal; a fuel that is significantly more polluting than propane or natural gas. (Although environmental controls mostly negate this pollution.) So, before you go "YAY! Electric powered (insert name of currently gas-powered item here)", just remember that that power is coming from fossil fuels.

[ammi @ Jan 13th 2008 4:40PM]

@ dramamoose:

AS good portion od Cali's power is hydroelectric- it comes from Hoover dam, as per the agreement with Nevada when the dam was built.

[Matthew Nelson @ Jan 14th 2008 5:28PM]

Apreche's mostly correct! This legislation will just increase the use of smaller heaters/air conditioners, which in most cases are less effecient. Smaller units are electric powered. Most electricity in the western states comes from burning coal.

Americans won't stand for being uncomfortable in our own homes!

This is terrible legislation which will not save energy, while making our lives less convenient and comfortable.

[Joel I. Johnson @ Jan 13th 2008 12:30PM]

Couldn't one work around this by placing some type of object that gives off heat near the thermostat? Not that a true hacker would wave any trouble attaching a switch to a 3/5 wire thermostat to bypass the control all together.

[Teris @ Jan 13th 2008 12:41PM]

Can you imagine if they set this up for flushing toilets? Hummm...big brother had better get out of the invasion of Iraq first, that would save alot more energy and money.

[Jeff @ Jan 13th 2008 4:32PM]

Many, many localities already have ordinances in place mandating low-flow toilets, and have for decades.

[Feech @ Jan 13th 2008 12:46PM]

I actually work for a utility that is using these T-Stats for energy conservation. Its funny but you would think with all the problems that California has with rolling blackouts and shit, they would have had a plan like this in place. Or at the very least start looking at other utilities and copy the plans they have. It should have never got to this point to make it a requirement. These are kinda neat though, the utility will have a website that you can actually change the temp in your house when your not there.

[An_asshole @ Jan 13th 2008 12:51PM]

I welcome this Orwellian nightmare for I will be the man who makes a million dollars selling custom built Faraday cages to fit over these things.

In all seriousness the first poster above is absolutely right. The answer is clean, reliable, and safe nuclear energy. The French have been using it safely for years and if those cheese eatin' surrender monkeys can do it, so can we.