HD DVD deathwatch: we're making it official

Update 2.19.2008: It's over! HD DVD is dead. After years in the market place, we can all finally move on with things.

HD DVD fans, we hate to do this to you, but it's time we called it. HD DVD is now officially on Engadget deathwatch. We haven't put anything important on deathwatch since TiVo in 2005 (which, as you may recall, still stands); but just as then, we have to step back from our personal preferences and investments in media and gear, ignore the rumors and hearsay, and take a close look at where things stand. We don't need Michael Bay to tell us the writing's on the wall.

So far this battle's been decided primarily by two factors: studio support and ubiquity of content. It's clear Sony's camp couldn't even come close to trumping Toshiba in hardware price war that's ensued over the past couple of years. But as it turns out, consumers that just spent thousands on a new HDTV weren't too concerned with a couple hundred dollars between players, and despite whatever users price won HD DVD, the PS3 Blu-ray trojan kept the competition at bay. Meanwhile, most consumers were too smart and too cautious to buy early in a format war. Most have simply waited this thing out, and while Warner's announcement to go exclusively Blu was obviously huge, it was only indicative of a trend -- it didn't set it.

If you look at the timeline, even before Warner announced its intentions to go Blu-ray exclusive HD DVD's studio base was already shrunken from its heyday, leaving it with fewer titles both in number and sales. Warner was just another push in the direction things were already headed -- the numbers already consistently showed Blu was ahead in media and install base, which has only become far more exaggerated in the last couple of months now that Blu amassed some 70% of studio-released titles.

But if you ask us, it's the ubiquity of content that sealed the deal. It wasn't until Blockbuster and later Netflix -- two of the three most widely used disc rental businesses in the US -- went Blu-ray exclusively that we knew HD DVD wasn't long for this world.

So here's the deal, Toshiba. As much as we hate putting any worthy technology on deathwatch, for the sake of the greater good we hope you guys just roll over and cut your losses so we can all move on. But if you really want off this deathwatch, you're not only going to have to retain Paramount (which owns Dreamworks) and Universal, you also need to win at least a few back from Blu (Warner and Disney would be a great start), and get hardware in consumers' hands, even if it means practically giving it away. It's not going to be easy -- hell, we think it's actually pretty hopeless -- but hey, that's why you're on deathwatch, innit?

P.S. -Special for this occasion, we've also brought our Blu-ray vs HD DVD: State of the Division charts up to date and added a few new tables.

[phanbouy @ Feb 15th 2008 3:42PM]

A bit anticlimactic since you declared HD a "car-crash-you-can't-stop-looking-at" this morning. =)

[KayRazy Ken Kutaragi @ Feb 15th 2008 4:08PM]

Quick someone play Counterstrike so you can "train" on that "murder simulator" and go kill HD_DEAD. Please, make JackASSThompson proud.

I would do it myself but I am a family man and I cannot take the chance that this deadly video game makes me kill my wife and kids.

[phanbouy @ Feb 15th 2008 4:09PM]

kayrazy... dudeman, just livin' up to your name?

[Mr. E @ Feb 15th 2008 4:36PM]

Hey, at least we now finally have an official statement of position from Engadget. Hopefully we won't have to see any more posts like "ZOMG, nice Blu-ray propaganda, you guyz are so totally up $ony's AZZZZZZ!!!!11!!" from the "give me HD DVD or give me death" extremists.

[Mark @ Feb 15th 2008 8:32PM]

So what does xbox 360 do? Blue-Ray add on?

[Blackstar @ Feb 15th 2008 4:49PM]

Cool. 'They' picked one.

So, wake me up when we can finally rip Blu-Ray movies to our media computers because watching movies on an easily damaged and/or scratch-able medium that takes 3 minutes for the player to boot up and is filled with unskippable advertisements and warnings is not my idea of entertainment, no matter how it's formatted.

[DEEZNUTZ @ Feb 15th 2008 4:55PM]

The thirst for blood is unsatiable here...

[stephenbratz2 @ Feb 15th 2008 5:05PM]

@Blackstar

Sony announced at CES that this will be possible. Of course, it is only possible with a Sony player (PS3) to a Sony device (PSP) with a Sony memory format (Memory Stick). Blu-Ray is open and not owned by one group like that evil Toshiba/M$, so you can use players from any manufacturer (small print: to use the format to the full potential, only Sony products can be purchased).

[KayRazy Ken Kutaragi @ Feb 15th 2008 5:14PM]

Geez, people, that post was meant to mock Jack Thompson who yet again, is blaming VG for the latest school shooting.

[KayRazy Ken Kutaragi @ Feb 15th 2008 5:15PM]

Geez, people, that post was meant to mock Jack Thompson who yet again, is blaming VG for the latest school shooting.

[wraith808 @ Feb 15th 2008 6:34PM]

@kayrazy - It wasn't a very good mocking... in fact, it wasn't a good anything...

[EatingPie @ Feb 15th 2008 6:31PM]

"So, wake me up when we can finally rip Blu-Ray movies to our media computers."

Wake up! Pretty much every Blu-Ray has been cracked and appears on the intertubes somewhere.

AACS allows for managed copy, the ability to (legally) do what you're asking. It was never used on HD-DVD, nor has it yet been used on Blu-Ray, but there's a couple of Fox titles coming with the ability. They call it something like dual copy.

Anywho, hopefully THIS deathwatch actually ends in the death of a format. Engadget's deathwatch track record ain't so hot considering the TiVo thing. :-)

-Pie

[Blackstar @ Feb 16th 2008 1:00AM]

@ EatingPie

The ripped flicks seen on the intertubes done by 13 year old Chinese kids making subtitled .mkv's is not what I am looking for. My time is worth more than hours downloading and even more hours converting them to something I can use and hoping all the while nothing is wrong with it. I should be able to buy what I want and watch it on what I want.

Ripping my discs to a file size and type that's useful to me (to skip unwanted ads and keep the original as a back up) is not a problem for me. Converting 16 flavors of audio and video codecs and container files is. And until the price of Blu-Ray computer drives drops to the level of current DVD counterparts, I'll be in the corner catching some z's.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[William Grose @ Feb 15th 2008 3:46PM]

So this is the final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, final, FINAL nail in the coffin?

[phanbouy @ Feb 15th 2008 3:47PM]

ha.. i'll bet you didn't use an iPhone to type that!

[Curtis the Claw Game Master @ Feb 15th 2008 3:50PM]

This is the coffin falling out of the hearse (horribly spelled I know, sorry I don't use this word in my everyday volcabulary), and into a river that for some reason has sharks in it. The body of HD-DVD is then slowly eaten by sharks while on fire.

[MikeLong @ Feb 15th 2008 3:57PM]

@ phanbuoy

I bet you DID use an iPhone to type yours! I know that most people don't bother capitalizing the "p" on iPhone when the normally type, but when you are typing on the iPhone it capitalizes it for you.

Totally not related to this story at all I know, but on a side note at least I don't have to worry about going out and buying a Blu Ray player now!

[monkfishbandana @ Feb 15th 2008 4:06PM]

Seriously, this has gone on for way too long.


Toshiba: Hey guys, wanna buy a HD-DVD?

People ignore him.

Toshiba: $200?

People keep ignoring him.

Toshiba: $100?

People still keep ignoring him.

Toshiba: Okay, I'll give you some free stuff too!

People STILL keep ignoring him.

Toshiba: Guys? GUYS? GUYS!!

Man: Dude, ju...just go home.

Toshiba: But I can win! I've got all that stuff tha-

Man: Seriously. Go home.

Camera ascends. Rain starts falling. Toshiba looks down at the floor and starts walking away from his gang of used-to-be friends. Sad piano music plays.








Fade to black.

[Billy Fiul @ Feb 15th 2008 4:11PM]

This is blasphemy; this is madness!

[eugene @ Feb 15th 2008 4:12PM]

@mike long,

nah you should still worry. Will your brand new 1.1 spec BD player be upgradeable to 2.0? Will the manufacturer bother to upgrade it?

See, still stuff to sit and stew over.

[Rollins @ Feb 15th 2008 4:14PM]

Actually, Curtis, you spelled hearse right. :D

[Kiwi616 @ Feb 15th 2008 4:18PM]

@ Billy Fiul

THIS IS BLU-RAAAAYY!!!! :)

Love that movie and scene.

[Urza @ Feb 15th 2008 4:29PM]

MikeLong:

Dude. I _hate_ Apple and even I capitalize iPhone, iPod, iTouch, etc... correctly. That's the name of the product.

And while I'm off topic on mac products...anyone else find the biography 'iCon' rather ironic whenever you see it? I just always think 'Yes Steve Jobs...yes you do con people.'

[CowOfDoom @ Feb 15th 2008 4:37PM]

Madness? THIS IS DEATHWATCH!!!

[Curtis the Claw Game Master @ Feb 15th 2008 5:21PM]

@rollins

Hurry foar spileng rite!

[Curtis the Claw Game Master @ Feb 15th 2008 5:23PM]

@urza

More like "iRonic" know what I'm sayin'?

[DaCheez @ Feb 15th 2008 5:59PM]

You actually spelled hearse correctly, Curtis. But then you went and spelled vocabulary incorrectly. If hadn't apologized for your spelling you would have been just fine...

[Billy @ Feb 15th 2008 3:46PM]

I own the 360 HD-DVD drive so I'm not thrilled that Blu-ray has basically won - BUT - I am extremely happy that "the war" is basically over and people can now feel comfortable buying an HD movie player without any real risk.

There should have only been one format to begin with. Duh.

[kryptonian00 @ Feb 15th 2008 3:53PM]

I agree, I hate that I have to buy 300 and all my superman movies in Blue ray now, but atleast this is over!!! I pray Xbox make a blue ray player now.

[Franssu @ Feb 15th 2008 3:57PM]

kryptonian00, nobody forces you to ditch your HD DVD drive. 300 on HD DVD is still superior to the Blu -ray version, until Warner decides to make a BD profile 1.1 version of the movie. And even then, why buy it a second time if you already have the HD DVD and the hardware to play it ?

[tom @ Feb 15th 2008 4:15PM]

This is from Reuters and i quote
"Microsoft Corp's (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) Xbox 360 also currently works only with HD DVD. However, Microsoft said in January it could consider supporting Blu-ray technology at consumers' behest."

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN1559110620080215?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

Keeping my finger crossed

[Student Driver @ Feb 15th 2008 4:22PM]

I for one welcome our new high definition disc overlords...

[Anthony @ Feb 15th 2008 5:16PM]

I damn near bought sony's 200 disc blu-ray + hard drive player this morning but didn't want to jump the gun. I'm not quite ready to invest 3k in "the winner" until HD disappears from the market completely.

[moo083 @ Feb 15th 2008 5:45PM]

Anthony: Good thing you didn't! There is more to it that just HD-DVD and Bluray. Within Bluray, theres 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, etc...You wanna make sure you'll get a bluray player that'll last. The only one I KNOW will last is the PS3 because of how open to firmware updates it is. I don't know of any other players that would let you upgrade to profile 1.1. Keep that in mind!

[Anthony @ Feb 15th 2008 3:46PM]

Not having to pick between two formats is good. Everything else? I guess we'll find out once the winner doesn't have to worry about the competition.

[Brad @ Feb 15th 2008 4:42PM]

Yeah, I wonder what'll happen to price and content once Sony isn't willing to take a multi-billions-of-dollars loss on the Blu devision.

Yeah, they're willing to pay for exclusivity contracts and take big hits on hardware NOW, but how about in 5 years? in 2?

Either way, I'll keep my HD-DVDs. Since most of the companies aren't abandoning HD-DVD, they're just no longer exclusive, I'll see what really happens.

And I'll also keep watching my TiVo, thank you very much.

[Eric @ Feb 16th 2008 10:35AM]

Sorry, Brad:
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSL1627196120080216

[James Scott @ Feb 15th 2008 3:47PM]

It makes me sad the consumer friendly version failed and the consumer hostile one wins.

BTW, the HD-DVD drive for the 360 isnt a complete fail, you can use it with an EeePC!

[Franssu @ Feb 15th 2008 3:53PM]

BTW, you can still use the HD DVD drive for the 360... with a 360.

That's what I do, and it still works.

Sad to see the less customer-unfriendly format lose this one, but anyway it's not like the outcome has really been decided by us consumers. So long HD DVD, I still prefer your red boxes to the blue ones, but I guess I'll get used to them.

That, and my PS3 is waaaaay less noisy than my 360.

[Rob @ Feb 15th 2008 4:00PM]

"consumer friendly", that sounds as cheesy as people saying "it's for the children." Whatever. The ones dictating all the DRM are the content owners, aka - the studios. Fox and Disney are the two most paranoid studios that don't want people pirating their content. Blu-ray offered them a better guarantee than HD-DVD. Let's face it, it's all about money, our money. Toshiba hasn't been financing HD-DVD fans' ride for nothing. They want that royalty money that would eventually come in.
However, things would've change rapidly once Fox, New Line, and Disney were to come along. Region coding would've been on the next batches the next morning.

People like to spew venom about Sony being the bad guy, but ignore that all HD-DVD players in the market have been Toshiba's. You don't have a problem with that? That's what we call a monopoly.

Anyway, at the end of the day is all about the mighty dollar. People on the Blu-ray side bought more movies and players, and that's all that matters. The HD-DVD camp, and supporters, had the chance to turn the tide numerous times, and they failed. Own up to the fact that your format of choice didn't survive. It's that so hard to accept?

[rcappo @ Feb 15th 2008 4:21PM]

I'd be wondering what reason BD has for lowering their prices if they are trying to buy out everyone to become a monopoly?

The fact that HD-DVDs are region free and easier to back-up is a good thing.

[ben @ Feb 15th 2008 4:36PM]

People go over this in every thread HD vs BR is mentioned, about 8 different companies make BR players.

[rcappo @ Feb 15th 2008 4:45PM]

And there are quite a few gas stations I drive past every day, and their prices are all set pretty close because they aren't really competing against each other.

The 8 or so player makers will be talking to each other or at least wanting to make as much money as they each can. It's not until you get a very cheap company that really low balls the price that you see it change. And I wouldn't be surprised if they had some controls over which companies can make players, so the unheard of company can't put together a bare-bones player for $200.

[nudepenguin @ Feb 17th 2008 12:15AM]

HD Consumer friendly??? It was backed by the biggest consumer non friendly company ever MICROSUCK! Forget about the sony rootkit thing, the Microsuck windoze DRM, monopolistic bully is even worse. Take the lesser of the 2 evils GO BLUE RAY! At least Sony is more Open Source Friendly. Let's see Microscuck SUPPORT Linux on the XBOX, not gonna happen. GET A PS3!

[William @ Feb 15th 2008 3:49PM]

Well, I for one Hope that Paramount re-releases Star-Trek on Blu-Ray. Well, for that matter, I hope that all the movies released on HD-DVD are released on Blu as to not to have two large pieces of hardware taking up precious rack space in the closet.

[Franssu @ Feb 15th 2008 4:08PM]

You can still buy a dual-format player, if rack space is such an issue in your closet.

But seriously, can someone explain to me why rack space is such an issue here ? I come from Europe, where I LIVED in a closet, and was perfectly happy to have VHS, DVD and LD players in my rack even then (it was long before the advent of High Definition).

[tom @ Feb 15th 2008 4:17PM]

what is the point now for dual-mode?

[Kiwi616 @ Feb 15th 2008 4:21PM]

@ Franssu

Not so much self space, but wires and connections. Why have 2 when you only need 1 connect from a player to your TV.

[Mr. B @ Feb 15th 2008 4:56PM]

@ Tom

There are 400 HD-DVD releases in USA circulation and many of them will never get Blu-Ray replacements.

[Doz @ Feb 15th 2008 5:03PM]

@tom

I know I'd go for a dual format player because I completely intend to make the most of the hddvd closeouts soon to come (or going on currently eg. amazon). I would have liked hddvd to win but heck, can't pass on a good deal.